The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[『SwingingStar』]

Since they're crazy about echoes and Villains this time, make the trailer start with Akuma fighting Yoshi, on a puzzle match. He looses and gets Shun Goku Satsu'd, as death seems to be a running theme on this game. Then Lip steps up to the plate to fight him, and the trailer cuts to gameplay there.

Title the trailer "Super Puzzle Fighters", for the in-joke.

 

[N-V]

Since they're crazy about echoes and Villains this time, make the trailer start with Akuma fighting Yoshi, on a puzzle match. He looses and gets Shun Goku Satsu'd, as death seems to be a running theme on this game. Then Lip steps up to the plate to fight him, and the trailer cuts to gameplay there.

Title the trailer "Super Puzzle Fighters", for the in-joke.

In a less likely scenario, if we ended up getting Dark Matter as another Kirby character they could parody Kirby 64 by having it attack Popples, though I don't think they've ever done two newcomers in a single new trailer. Regardless, Lip's got my full support being one of the few characters I want that actually has some sort of chance.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I've just had a thought: in the Smash Direct, is it possible that all of the music tracks were unlocked (if there are any locked at all that is) for the purpose of the direct? If so, this may tell us that if Lip is confirmed, they will only include music from Panel de Pon as Sakurai said that the "Other" playlist is for game series containing multiple games that don't have playable characters or stages like Pilotwings and Wii Sports or for music from 1 game like Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt. What I'm trying to say is that if they are all unlocked in the direct and a remix from Nintendo Puzzle Collection is found by anyone or gets posted on the main site as part of the "Other" playlist, this could essentially disconfirm Lip. I don't want to sound pessimistic again but it's just something I had to get off my chest.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I've just had a thought: in the Smash Direct, is it possible that all of the music tracks were unlocked (if there are any locked at all that is) for the purpose of the direct? If so, this may tell us that if Lip is confirmed, they will only include music from Panel de Pon as Sakurai said that the "Other" playlist is for game series containing multiple games that don't have playable characters or stages like Pilotwings and Wii Sports or for music from 1 game like Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt. What I'm trying to say is that if they are all unlocked in the direct and a remix from Nintendo Puzzle Collection is found by anyone or gets posted on the main site as part of the "Other" playlist, this could essentially disconfirm Lip. I don't want to sound pessimistic again but it's just something I had to get off my chest.

Pretty sure they hid some Zelda tracks. If you check earlier when they showed a list of the combined "Legend of Zelda" series tracks, there were several dots representing unrevealed tracks.


In the Other section they definitely didn't scroll down far enough for us to see anything. And even then, if you think about it, Panel de Pon would probably be included in "Other" even if it gets a stage, because Duck Hunt is also in "Other".

 

[11th]

Going back to the earlier retro discussion: I compare Lip less to the retros/surprises and more to Pit.
-Kid Icarus didn't have a strong launch, but picked up a cult following.
-It disappeared for over a decade after only two games, one of which was not released in Japan.
-Had enough potential left and enough popularity after debuting in Brawl that the series received a new entry.

As for how Panel de Pon stacks up:
-The game didn't launch well, but was popular with other game devs at the time. Cult following... see this entire thread.
-Has two releases with characters intact, one of which released in the West with reskined characters, and has been MIA for fifteen years.
-The characters are well defined for being in a single game over twenty years ago. The world, while not too fleshed out, has potential. The visual and sound design are solid. The gameplay is addictive, and still fairly unique in the sea of match-three games. There could be a mobile release of the Super Famicom game right now and it would probably do well -- imagine what it could do with some more polish on the Switch. Potential? Check.

Basically a reverse Kid Icarus situation with the added hurdle of the rebranding.

Meanwhile, "retro/surprise" is usually used for characters that have only had one major appearance and aren't likely to return. They also typically have some historical importance for Nintendo or gaming as a whole. While Lip would certainly be surprising, I don't think she has the same weight as most characters in that group historically.

 

[『SwingingStar』]

I've just had a thought: in the Smash Direct, is it possible that all of the music tracks were unlocked (if there are any locked at all that is) for the purpose of the direct? If so, this may tell us that if Lip is confirmed, they will only include music from Panel de Pon as Sakurai said that the "Other" playlist is for game series containing multiple games that don't have playable characters or stages like Pilotwings and Wii Sports or for music from 1 game like Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt. What I'm trying to say is that if they are all unlocked in the direct and a remix from Nintendo Puzzle Collection is found by anyone or gets posted on the main site as part of the "Other" playlist, this could essentially disconfirm Lip. I don't want to sound pessimistic again but it's just something I had to get off my chest.

If she were to get a franchise tab, they wouldn't show it before reveal. Aside from that, Panel de Pon released in 95, and the Other tab is ordered by realease date, so they didn't scroll far enough for us to know.

 

[N. Onymous]

I wouldn't call Lip particularly important to gaming or Nintendo history, per se, but Panel de Pon still has enough of a cult following that I really do hope our girl pulls through. She's been absent for long enough that it would definitely be a surprise.

This is probably an even longer shot than Lip ever getting in an official Smash game, but... How would you react if one of the characters about to be revealed for SSF2 is Lip?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I speculated years ago that Lip would be a playable character in SSF2, since Mcleod is choosing to add characters from dormant franchises like Chibi and Isaac. Maybe we could see her in that game, we just have to wait and see. But right now, that reveal could take years to do. McleodGaming seems to bring three new characters every year, with a long hiatus after that.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Pretty sure they hid some Zelda tracks. If you check earlier when they showed a list of the combined "Legend of Zelda" series tracks, there were several dots representing unrevealed tracks.


In the Other section they definitely didn't scroll down far enough for us to see anything. And even then, if you think about it, Panel de Pon would probably be included in "Other" even if it gets a stage, because Duck Hunt is also in "Other".

I now realise that what myself and Sakurai have said isn't quite true as Final Fantasy has a grand total of 2 music tracks with both of them being from one game (FF7) and yet it has it's own dedicated music section; although this could possibly be seen as a special case with it being third party. Either way, if all of the music tracks were unlocked for the sound test part, my point about Lip still stands.

 

[N. Onymous]

I now realise that what myself and Sakurai have said isn't quite true as Final Fantasy has a grand total of 2 music tracks with both of them being from one game (FF7) and yet it has it's own dedicated music section; although this could possibly be seen as a special case with it being third party. Either way, if all of the music tracks were unlocked for the sound test part, my point about Lip still stands.

Definitely a special case. I guarantee if Nintendo owned Cloud, both of those songs would be under Others.

 

[shammah121]

I wouldn't call Lip particularly important to gaming or Nintendo history, per se, but Panel de Pon still has enough of a cult following that I really do hope our girl pulls through. She's been absent for long enough that it would definitely be a surprise.

The annoying part is that she should be important because she's one of Nintendo's early puzzle mascots along with Dr. Mario, but Nintendo is the reason why she's in this position. Unlike Dr. Mario though, her character design and world was made from scratch! Nintendo nowadays forgets that the puzzle genre is a big factor in gaming too! Tetris helped sell the Gameboy and the Gameboy probably wouldn't have sold as well if it was bundled with Super Mario Land!

 

[N. Onymous]

And you can argue that Puyo Puyo Tetris pushed more units because of the sheer name-power that Tetris has, but the series that got top billing and is most prominently featured in the actual game is (was?) basically unknown over here because most of its earlier installments were reskinned (in a much less lazy way than Panel de Pon was, may I add), and the ones that weren't didn't sell very well. Evidently, the cute, overtly Japanese character designs of the Puyo Puyo series weren't enough of a turn-off for people to not buy the game. Huh. Who knew.

 

[SchAlternate]

Panel de Pon and Puyo Puyo certainly have a lot in common, huh? Both competitive puzzle games with combo mechanics and usage of garbage blocks, featuring a cute cast of characters that got rebranded to fit into another already established series when exported internationally (Yoshi and Pokemon, and Sonic and Kirby, respectively), have *those* reskins become cult classics in the west, but still have fans of the original aesthetic.

It makes all the more infuriating how only one of them manage to break through that localization barrier and all of the re branding.

EDIT: By the way, I was checking the Smash Wiki, and this hit me below the belt.

 

[N. Onymous]

"Has not made any appearances in the series yet." Never lose hope.

 

[BluePikmin11]

And you can argue that Puyo Puyo Tetris pushed more units because of the sheer name-power that Tetris has, but the series that got top billing and is most prominently featured in the actual game is (was?) basically unknown over here because most of its earlier installments were reskinned (in a much less lazy way than Panel de Pon was, may I add), and the ones that weren't didn't sell very well. Evidently, the cute, overtly Japanese character designs of the Puyo Puyo series weren't enough of a turn-off for people to not buy the game. Huh. Who knew.

>TFW you just realize Tetris was also integrated into Puyo Puyo in the latest game to help market the PP series globally.

What can puzzle games outside of the mobile market do to make their names known and played worldwide? The Tetris company should not be agreeing to these sorts of deals TBH.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Panel de Pon and Puyo Puyo certainly have a lot in common, huh? Both competitive puzzle games with combo mechanics and usage of garbage blocks, featuring a cute cast of characters that got rebranded to fit into another already established series when exported internationally (Yoshi and Pokemon, and Sonic and Kirby, respectively), have *those* reskins become cult classics in the west, but still have fans of the original aesthetic.

It makes all the more infuriating how only one of them manage to break through that localization barrier and all of the re branding.

EDIT: By the way, I was checking the Smash Wiki, and this hit me below the belt.
View attachment 156979

I was the one who put that on the Wiki, plus I already mentioned some details on this thread already.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

What can puzzle games outside of the mobile market do to make their names known and played worldwide? The Tetris company should not be agreeing to these sorts of deals TBH.

Honestly it just comes down to good marketing and presentation. Using another IP to market a product is honest a lazy tactic that has become popular recently due to how successful it typically is. I think we'll soon get to a point where this tactic loses its impact and will start to die out. As for how to successfully market Panel De Pon, I've thought about it for a while and I believe I figured a way to produce a highly successful international Panel De Pon that uses the fairy characters. if a sequel was designed in a way I have planned and marketed in the way I have conceived, it could be sold as a smaller AAA release without eating too much development time.

 

[N. Onymous]

As for how to successfully market Panel De Pon, I've thought about it for a while and I believe I figured a way to produce a highly successful international Panel De Pon that uses the fairy characters. if a sequel was designed in a way I have planned and marketed in the way I have conceived, it could be sold as a smaller AAA release without eating too much development time.

Well, don't just sit there, man, tell us. I'm curious.

 

[SchAlternate]

Well, don't just sit there, man, tell us. I'm curious.

Yes, yes, please do.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Definitely a special case. I guarantee if Nintendo owned Cloud, both of those songs would be under Others.

This further proves my point that if Lip were to be confirmed and based on the assumption that the Sound Test was fully unlocked in the Direct, only music from the original Panel de Pon would be included and that if any music relating to NPC were to be included, it would've required Panel de Pon to have its own music section since the music would come from more than one game in the series. Therefore, going by my aforementioned assumption, if music from NPC is found or posted and Lip isn't revealed by that point, it won't look good for her chances.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm assuming that's not the full track list, personally. I'd be shocked if they weren't hiding more. But Final Fantasy is really hard to say...

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Agreed.
I believe most music might not be implemented yet, for the element of surprise, or the fact that their file is just not there yet.
I'm sure more Square content comes when the patch with Geno comes.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Agreed.
I believe most music might not be implemented yet, for the element of surprise, or the fact that their file is just not there yet.
I'm sure more Square content comes when the patch with Geno comes.

Final Fantasy had two music tracks in SSB4 and has two tracks again in SSBU. I would absolutely love for the Sound Test in the Direct to have not been completely unlocked but my previous posts were made under the assumption that it was.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

It did specifiy Final Fantasy VII did it not?
Anywho, I'm sure more will come. I believe Cloud was rushed, and therefore barely enough time to create tracks for the stage, that's my bet. Not that Square actually was very stingy. I could be wrong, but I believe it will come as a surprise later on. Here is to hoping.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

It did specifiy Final Fantasy VII did it not?
Anywho, I'm sure more will come. I believe Cloud was rushed, and therefore barely enough time to create tracks for the stage, that's my bet. Not that Square actually was very stingy. I could be wrong, but I believe it will come as a surprise later on. Here is to hoping.

Yeah, I just doubled checked and the playlist is indead labelled "Final Fantasy VII" instead of having a name like "Final Fantasy Series" like all the others.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah, I just doubled checked and the playlist is indead labelled "Final Fantasy VII" instead of having a name like "Final Fantasy Series" like all the others.

I'm just 97% confident that it's not all tracks we will get.
IF this game suposedly got about 900 tracks, then why the hell does some of the big series only have around 20?
I'm sure the ones who are there now are the ones ported over from Smash 4. The new ones will be added later, I'm quite certain.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I'm just 97% confident that it's not all tracks we will get.
IF this game suposedly got about 900 tracks, then why the hell does some of the big series only have around 20?
I'm sure the ones who are there now are the ones ported over from Smash 4. The new ones will be added later, I'm quite certain.

Looking through the Direct again, every playlist that is highlighted (except FF, G&W and Bayonetta) has more music tracks in them then in SSB4 so these playlists would indeed include new compositions.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Looking through the Direct again, every playlist that is highlighted (except FF, G&W and Bayonetta) has more music tracks in them then in SSB4 so these playlists would indeed include new compositions.

Of course. You see that in the very first shot, with Splatoon.
All I'm saying is that it's not final.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Of course. You see that in the very first shot, with Splatoon.
All I'm saying is that it's not final.

I just hope you're right.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I just hope you're right.

So do I, my friend.
It just seems wrong if this was all we got. I can't imagine how the amount we were witness to could go up to 800. Not counting the menu's and all to round it to 900.

I remember the Others is just under 100.
I can't see the series bring up to 700 alone ...

Mario must have like over 100 alone for that to be true.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

So do I, my friend.
It just seems wrong if this was all we got. I can't imagine how the amount we were witness to could go up to 800. Not counting the menu's and all to round it to 900.

I remember the Others is just under 100.
I can't see the series bring up to 700 alone ...

Mario must have like over 100 alone for that to be true.

In SSB4, the Mario series had 69 tracks and I've heard at least 3 new tracks in Directs and character trailers bringing it to 72 so it's not too far off.

Edit: Another thought has just occured to me: does anyone else think it's possible that if Lip were to be confirmed, she would have no stage like Marth & Roy in Melee and R.O.B? This would get around the fact that Panel de Pon doesn't have its own playlist in the Sound Test if my assumption that it was fully unlocked in the Direct is correct. It's not ideal but it's just a possible scenario that popped into my head.

 

[N. Onymous]

Another thought has just occured to me: does anyone else think it's possible that if Lip were to be confirmed, she would have no stage like Marth & Roy in Melee and R.O.B? This would get around the fact that Panel de Pon doesn't have its own playlist in the Sound Test if my assumption that it was fully unlocked in the Direct is correct. It's not ideal but it's just a possible scenario that popped into my head.

I'll answer that question with a question: If you had secret characters you were still waiting to reveal from a franchise that had yet to be represented in Smash Bros., would you want to indirectly reveal them through the Sound Test and spoil the surprise?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Lip has really grown on me; honestly. The people supporting her are extremely creative and it's gotten to the point where the only other retro rep I'd really be as hyped for is Ayumi from Famicon Detective Club. Congrats on selling me on her so hard guy's, especially when there's a lot of good choices out there. I think a character definitely has merit if they can appeal to someone who initially never heard of the franchise or has played any of the instalments. I don't even really play Puzzle games.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Lip has really grown on me; honestly. The people supporting her are extremely creative and it's gotten to the point where the only other retro rep I'd really be as hyped for is Ayumi from Famicon Detective Club. Congrats on selling me on her so hard guy's, especially when there's a lot of good choices out there. I think a character definitely has merit if they can appeal to someone who initially never heard of the franchise or has played any of the instalments. I don't even really play Puzzle games.

I haven't bought/played any Puzzle games since Dr. Mario and Tetris. A game in the Pdp series is the first Puzzle game I bought in years one that I liked replaying a lot. I played a lot of Puzzle games when I was younger, but suddenly stopped a few years later possibly due to a lack of support on the genre or it pushing forward. I am going to play Puyo Puyo one day, since I have played Mbm and that Mania mini game.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I'll answer that question with a question: If you had secret characters you were still waiting to reveal from a franchise that had yet to be represented in Smash Bros., would you want to indirectly reveal them through the Sound Test and spoil the surprise?

That's a good point but like I said, my previous posts were made under the assumption that the Sound Test shown in the Direct was fully unlocked. Of course, it's entirely possible that it wasn't since the My Music section in the 50-Fact Extravaganza in 2014 also wasn't fully unlocked.

 

[JaidynReiman]

That's a good point but like I said, my previous posts were made under the assumption that the Sound Test shown in the Direct was fully unlocked. Of course, it's possible that it wasn't.

I'm sure it wasn't, because if it was, they just confirmed accidentally that we're only getting more newcomers from existing first party IP's. Or IP's with only one game. And that's such a glaring mistake to make when they went out if their way to hide other things.

I'm assuming that they hid icons of IP's they weren't ready to reveal.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I'm sure it wasn't, because if it was, they just confirmed accidentally that we're only getting more newcomers from existing first party IP's. Or IP's with only one game. And that's such a glaring mistake to make when they went out if their way to hide other things.

I'm assuming that they hid icons of IP's they weren't ready to reveal.

I seriously hope that this is the case because I absolutely hate being proven right when it comes to predicting a bad outcome.

 

[N. Onymous]

I seriously hope that this is the case because I absolutely hate being proven right when it comes to predicting a bad outcome.

Honestly, who doesn't? But in this case I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

This thread provides a lot more of interesting discussion than other more popular characters lol.

I see that people seem to generally agree on giving her a Japanese VA, but if she were dubbed into English; which VA do you think would fit Lip best?

 

[Motor Bug2005]

This thread provides a lot more of interesting discussion than other more popular characters lol.

I see that people seem to generally agree on giving her a Japanese VA, but if she were dubbed into English; which VA do you think would fit Lip best?

I believe we had a similar discussion here several weeks ago and back then, I suggested that Lip be voiced by Hynden Walch in her Yutaka Kobayakawa voice from Lucky Star but now, I feel that a voice like that of Stephanie Sheh would be just as (if not more) fitting.