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The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

N. Onymous

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Also, they did mentioned that Lip has the potential to have a unique moveset, but her inclusion is really up to Sakurai. Didn't he mention that he tries to avoid to include Japan only characters as much as he can on one of his older interviews? The only real exposure that the West has had of her is the custom in Animal Crossing.
I might just be a hopeless idealist, but I'm wondering if the ballot won't prove to them that including Lip as playable is worth it. Now obviously the ballot votes she got are nowhere near those of heavy hitters like K. Rool and Isaac, but maybe the fact that she got just a few from people who don't live in Japan will stand out to them.
 

MysticKnives

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I might just be a hopeless idealist, but I'm wondering if the ballot won't prove to them that including Lip as playable is worth it. Now obviously the ballot votes she got are nowhere near those of heavy hitters like K. Rool and Isaac, but maybe the fact that she got just a few from people who don't live in Japan will stand out to them.
We can only hope.
 
D

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I noticed I missed a detail yesterday and it kept bothering me. So i quickly fixed it (making the soles brown instead of grey) and also changed the shirt a bit to make the front seam smaller and less blurry, which looks better overall.
renderF2.png

renderF2_frill.png
renderF2_frill2.png
Is this what you had in mind when you made that design? Or did I maybe misinterpret or overlooked something? I hope I got everything right this time...

It's not that I think the old ones look better, just that being an artist myself I know that sometime having old art is good for reference when looking for future projects. I am currently doing vector based animations for a certain project and find myself constantly going back to five year old pieces despite how crappy i think they are. they work as learning tools as well as time savers ocassionally as i can rip assets from them to save time on current projects. I don't know how that translates to 3D projects mind you but I figure there has to be some similarities. I'm just trying to look out for your future interests, but if you already have your mind set don't mind me.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I know what you mean and it is valuable advice, it's just that, as I said, those old models are cobbled together from already existing ones, mostly Neptunia,, which have a high poly-count, while the new one is actually custom made. In fact, a big reason why I made this model is exactly so I can use it for future reference, something that wasn't possible with the old junk. Still, that advice is much appreciated and it's something even game devs do to save time.
 

N. Onymous

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Looks very cute! The frills around the bottom of her skirt are meant to be an embellishment/reinterpretation of the white line around her skirt in official artwork, though, meaning they shouldn't still have the while line above them. The sleeve frills are about right, but should be closer to her arm.
 
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D

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I admit, I completely missed the white line on her skirt, my bad. As for the arms, I didn't want to change too much in case it messes with the already existing rig. It was just meant to be a showcase how it would approximately look, so I admit, I didn't spend too much time on it.

Anyway, I hope you don't mind if I'm gonna call it quits now? The actual main model is finished anyway and I kinda wanna move on now, to be honest. I've made like 4-5 different models of Lip over the years and I kinda wanna give some other old franchises that have nothing some love, too. Mind you, I'm not gonna say I'm gonna quit making PdP stuff, I just need a breath of fresh air for the time being, something not PdP related.

Sorry if this comes as a disappointment.
 

Siggy88

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No.... you are not allowed to leave. You are going to fine tune that model until Lip makes it to smash, whether it's for this game or the next. I don't care if it takes you another 4 years, you're going to make this look official! Now work puppet! *wuu-tsshh* WORK!

In all seriousness, you've done enough. Thanks for your hard work. Good luck on whatever you're planning on tacking next.
 
D

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As you wish, Master, guess that's gonna be my next WIP*. I'm sorry I don't own a fitting maid costume though, hehe.
rendf.png
*Issa joke.

Fun fact, at first I actually did intend to make Furil way back then. I did settle on remaking Lip instead, she's not only more well known, relatively speaking, but she also doesn't have this annoying curly hair. The hair you see there is a leftover from back then, in case I ever want to pick her up again, which, to be honest, is not very likely.
 

N. Onymous

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It's not disappointing. Everyone wants to try something new every now and then, instead of working on the same thing they always have. Just look at Nintendo's puzzle games and Sushi Striker...OK, bad example.

(Honestly, at this point we've gone so long without a real new Panel de Pon that it'd probably count as "something new" all by itself.)

...This wait for information is killing me. The website is mostly just filler with short blurbs on existing fighters plus videos that are already on the site and which most of us have seen already, and as the days and weeks drag on, the chances of something happening to either deconfirm Lip or hurt her chances severely just keeps going up. Even though we're in a better place right now than we ever were back in the SSB4 days, this is already my least favorite Smash speculation period.
 

Siggy88

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Speaking of the blog, the japanese version actually has an extra entry. It posts pictures of old game box arts and sometimes snippet of their manuals.

https://www.smashbros.com/ja_JP/blog/index.html

Now this is an idea that someone on youtube mentioned, but imagine that in addition to trophies, we could also collect game box art and manuals of all the games the fighters represent? That's something that Megaman Legacy Collection those, and I think it would be incredibly cool. I was thinking of creating a thread on the general board about it.
 

N. Onymous

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That would be really neat, but probably not feasible to do for every region considering how many boxes and box variants there are for every game on every continent.
 

Siggy88

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Why not include them all? Think about it, they went far and beyond to get all the official artwork for stickers in brawl. Why couldn't they do that for box covers? I'm not thinking to include all titles for all series, just saying a choice few, like the main games and such.
 

ChronoBound

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...This wait for information is killing me. The website is mostly just filler with short blurbs on existing fighters plus videos that are already on the site and which most of us have seen already, and as the days and weeks drag on, the chances of something happening to either deconfirm Lip or hurt her chances severely just keeps going up. Even though we're in a better place right now than we ever were back in the SSB4 days, this is already my least favorite Smash speculation period.
I understand that pain about waiting for "new" information, I was honestly expecting some sort of update for the release of the Captain Toad ports (whether it be music, a stage, or an Assist Trophy), and there was not even an acknowledgement.

My current theory as to when we will finally receive new information is during whenever they decide to confirm the next newcomer (which might be during the weeks that WarioWare Gold releases). Many people, including myself, believe Ashley will be confirmed at this time.

As to this being the "worst" speculation period. Nah. During much of pre-Brawl, we were not receiving new information at all, and the Dojo did not start until May 22, 2007, and it was not until August that we actually saw a newcomer after the E3 2006 unveil (which was in May of the previous year).

Even with Smash 4, we did not see our next newcomer until six months after the E3 2013 unveil (Rosalina in December).

Ultimate has the shortest speculation period since Smash 64 to Melee. We only have five months left. Be thankful that you still have time to hope, dream, and speculate for this round. That is a privilege that that many other long running fanbases do not have (Bomberman, Takmaru, Sukapon, Samurai Goroh, Krystal, Lyn, Tingle, Stary, and Waluigi to name some).

Lip has survived thus far. Appreciate that, unless you are someone that just wants it "to be over with" which I can understand as well (I can sympathize on this front as well, I really wanted to Sakurai to outright confirm that Ridley was a stage hazard boss after the April 2014 Smash Direct since so many idiots believed that Sakurai was only playing "mind games").

We shall see what ultimately happens with Lip and Panel de Pon content in general. However, keep in mind that you are not alone. Isaac fans have traditionally had to wait until a game's release to not only figure out what Isaac's role in each game was, but also what content Golden Sun even had in the game.

There are five months left. Let us appreciate this calm for now. It may be for only last a few more weeks, or maybe even another month or two. Regardless, just continue to hope, dream, and discuss what you appreciate and enjoy about Panel de Pon.
 

N. Onymous

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Actually, that's another thing that's been concerning me, Ashley. I don't hate her, she's actually one of my favorite WarioWare characters, but her reveal (if she's in the game) could make or break my theory, and potentially Lip's chances along with it.

As a witch, Ashley is known for using a magic wand. There's a certain item from across the Smash series, appearing in every game so far despite its current absence from SSBU (as far as we know), that is also a magic wand. If Lip's Stick is coming back, it might be revealed alongside Ashley--the former in a very nonchalant manner, just sort of appearing in her reveal trailer, website screenshots, or highlight video, as if to say, "oh yeah, this stupid thing is back too." It'd be the Smash 4 press dump all over again.

I'm not saying Ashley being in the game is the be-all end-all for Lip being in the game or not. If SSB4 has taught us anything, it's that multiple characters can easily fill the same niche. For example, if we're doing the "two characters per Direct" thing, Ashley's reveal trailer could take the form of a magicians' duel between her and Lip. Of course, they could also just not show Lip's Stick, as I'm afraid they're going to do. I'm going to keep an open mind about this--remember when R.O.B. was thought to be deconfirmed because of the drone R.O.B.s we saw in The Subspace Emissary?
 

Crap-Zapper

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I would not be too concerned for Ashley, regarding Lip's chances. The only thing they have in common is hight and the role of small cute girls?
I think both of them could easily co-exist, and people would be really happy. I do want both of them, Lip being above Ash when it comes to most wanted, but Ash is quite up there too with my most wanted (as evidenced by my signature).
 

N. Onymous

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I'm definitely not saying that Ashley being in necessarily deconfirms Lip, because she doesn't. The only things that can explicitly deconfirm Lip are a retro character or retro characters who isn't/aren't Lip, and a Lip assist trophy. Even if she misses the base roster she still has a small chance to get in as DLC. I am a little worried that if Ashley shows up, Lip's Stick might show up in her gameplay footage or website screenshots (as a nod to Ashley being a witch and using a magic wand). I rather enjoy the feeling of hope, however small it is, that's been pemeating Lip's fan base lately, and I don't want it crushed over something silly.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Any little bit of direct inclusion into the game would help. Even the Panel De Pon series essentially abandoned the fairies (before it eventually got rid of characters altogether), so Lip's Stick is a symbol of lingering hope. That's more than what Ray and Custom Robo are getting these days.
 

Staarih

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A bit random, but Famitsu recently interviewed a few developers of Sushi Striker, one of them being Hitoshi Yamagami, who was head of Panel De Pon. He references Panel De Pon in the interview by saying he hadn't been as excited about an puzzle idea (= Sushi Striker) since Panel De Pon. While not necessarily major news, it's nice to see the game remembered in a positive manner and the puzzle genre having a shot within Nintendo, even if it's another IP.
 
D

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It's worth noting that Panel de Pon is also commonly re-released, be it for various Virtual Consoles or the Super Famicom Mini. Same can't be said for Tetris Attack, probably due to licensing issues. Although that begs the question why they won't just simply released the Japanese version instead. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time. Sin & Punishment for the Wii VC just got a menu translation, with everything else, including subtitles, being untouched. By now, they also brought over Earthbound and Mario RPG multiple times over to the EU, while keeping it English only, nor do they have any problem finishing up unreleased games and sell them, namely MOTHER 1 and Star Fox 2. I think Murasame Castle is also on the international VC by now?

All that makes me wonder why western Nintendo won't just release the Japanese version of Panel de Pon as a substitute, when the western one is seemingly stuck in licensing hell due to the "Tetris" name. Kinda feels like it's a franchise they seem to avoid?
 

Jazzy Jinx

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^ I feel like Nintendo is out of touch with the Western world, at least when it comes to America.

Cutesy, anime-like stuff like this is becoming more and more mainstream. Even rappers, actors and athletes openly talk about enjoying anime (and have already gone on record saying they enjoy video games) so this hesitance to just give us stuff, like Panel De Pon, as it actually exists, just baffles me. And Match 3/Tetris-like games are MASSIVELY popular on Mobile.

They're sleeping on a gold mine.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
I think the only way Ashley might severly hinder Lip is if she uses the Flowerhead effect in her moves as a curse. It might hurt her chances slightly if a different cutesy magical girl gets in, but on the flip-side she's another character that can be used as a foundation for Lip.
 

Siggy88

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A bit random, but Famitsu recently interviewed a few developers of Sushi Striker, one of them being Hitoshi Yamagami, who was head of Panel De Pon. He references Panel De Pon in the interview by saying he hadn't been as excited about an puzzle idea (= Sushi Striker) since Panel De Pon. While not necessarily major news, it's nice to see the game remembered in a positive manner and the puzzle genre having a shot within Nintendo, even if it's another IP.
And unfortunately, that game seems to have bombed hard.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-sushi-striker-completely-bombed-at-launch/
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...f_sushido_has_shockingly_poor_launch_in_japan

This may make Nintendo be a bit more cautious of creating new untested IP like this. Which is unfortunate, they really tried to push this game with directs and stuff. Personally, I'm waiting for a price drop, as it does look interesting and alot of reviews say that it's pretty fun.
 

smashkirby

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And unfortunately, that game seems to have bombed hard.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-sushi-striker-completely-bombed-at-launch/
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...f_sushido_has_shockingly_poor_launch_in_japan

This may make Nintendo be a bit more cautious of creating new untested IP like this. Which is unfortunate, they really tried to push this game with directs and stuff. Personally, I'm waiting for a price drop, as it does look interesting and alot of reviews say that it's pretty fun.
As I've said in the past, Lip is the kind of character that I feel would NEED Smash before her games get released over here, as it might not be able to stand on its own all by itself.
 

GoodGrief741

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And unfortunately, that game seems to have bombed hard.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-sushi-striker-completely-bombed-at-launch/
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...f_sushido_has_shockingly_poor_launch_in_japan

This may make Nintendo be a bit more cautious of creating new untested IP like this. Which is unfortunate, they really tried to push this game with directs and stuff. Personally, I'm waiting for a price drop, as it does look interesting and alot of reviews say that it's pretty fun.
Yeah, I think the price point really killed it. I played the demo and had so much fun that I was gonna buy it right there, but then I saw the $50 price point and it floored me.

Had Sushi Striker at least improved in making appealing and striking character designs and improved the cheesy writing, I think Sushi Striker would not have bombed as hard.
Funny, I thought the cheesy writing was incredibly funny. The idea that it’s a ridiculous anime world where Sushi is such a big deal really worked.
 

N. Onymous

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I'm a little happy Sushi Striker flopped, because it means Panel de Pon has less competition. On the other hand, it may make Nintendo think puzzle games in that vein are still dead, meaning Panel de Pon gets to rot outside endless Japan-only rereleases of the original game (that they're clearly no longer interested in using) for another decade. We'll have to wait and see.

...Why don't they just translate the original game and release it over here? Are they that ashamed of it?
 

N. Onymous

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His thoughts on the issue mirror mine. It's a series that deserved to stand on its own, but instead it got gussied up as two different franchises that it just wasn't, because Nintendo of America had that little faith in it. It never had a chance.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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It doesn't help that, if TV Tropes' info is accurate, PdP got screwed over constantly. It's the biggest uphill battle.
Everything having to do with the original fairies has suffered this fate. The Japanese N64 entry suffered cancellation and was revived by one of Nintendo's American studios as Pokémon Puzzle League. A GBC iteration featuring the fairies was going to be made, but partway through development it was switched to another Pokémon-themed version (this time released in Japan). The N64 version was revived again by the original studio and released as part of the Nintendo Puzzle Collection, which didn't make it outside Japan. The Nintendo Puzzle Collection downloadable version of Panel de Pon for the GBA was incorporated into the Dr. Mario & Puzzle League compilation which was released worldwide, but had no characters at all. Planet Puzzle League also featured no characters in favor of a futuristic computer theme, but had a Lip theme as a very difficult-to-unlock secret... only in the Japanese version. It was inexplicably locked outside of Japan.
 

Siggy88

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It extends to Smash Bros as well.
As it's been mention in this thread before, Panel de Pon elements has been popping on Smash since Melee. Kirby has Lip's garbage block as his down B. Lip's Stick has been a consitant item with an easily identifiable effect. Lip's only appearance in Smash has been as a sticker in Brawl. Hell, they mistake Furil for Lip in one of them.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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It doesn't help that, if TV Tropes' info is accurate, PdP got screwed over constantly. It's the biggest uphill battle.
Yeah, this is why I find it so weird to watch Mother 3-fans call themselves constantly tortured kind of a group when it comes to severely dislocalized games... at least Mother 3's been given constant attention by NoA (especially through Reggie), and probably doing a remake for it to justify an oversea release would go long way to allow it happen.

Meanwhile we can't exactly explain why the fairies are currently cursed to not allow oversea release as they are, and we're still stuck with that blasphemy.
The closest I can think of is that currently I.S sees no new use for the fairies as their to shine has "passed", or just doesn't want to retread the old ground - hence new opportunities in games like Sushi Striker, that allows them to start completely fresh.

Aside from that, I got nothing, honestly.

 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Yeah, this is why I find it so weird to watch Mother 3-fans call themselves constantly tortured kind of a group when it comes to severely dislocalized games... at least Mother 3's been given constant attention by NoA (especially through Reggie), and probably doing a remake for it to justify an oversea release would go long way to allow it happen.

Meanwhile we can't exactly explain why the fairies are currently cursed to not allow oversea release as they are, and we're still stuck with that blasphemy.
The closest I can think of is that currently I.S sees no new use for the fairies as their to shine has "passed", or just doesn't want to retread the old ground - hence new opportunities in games like Sushi Striker, that allows them to start completely fresh.

Aside from that, I got nothing, honestly.

And yet, Striker has failed. If there's anything Japan can be expected to do, it's retreading old ground, so this is an unusual situation. Maybe they felt like they couldn't get the foothold Puyo Puyo managed to accumulate over the years. Hell, the Sega 3D Classics release of Puyo Puyo 2 was kept Westside, even being no-frills and not getting any sort of translation for the in-game text. Ashley isn't Lip's greatest rival, Arle is.
 

N. Onymous

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There's a Smash tournament going on in Japan right now, at an event hosted by Shonen Jump. People are speculating there might be a certain reveal made at the end of this tourney, and I swear to christ if Goku gets in the game and Lip is still not even given the dignity of an Assist Trophy (or even a regular trophy) I may not even buy Smash Ultimate.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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There's a Smash tournament going on in Japan right now, at an event hosted by Shonen Jump. People are speculating there might be a certain reveal made at the end of this tourney, and I swear to christ if Goku gets in the game and Lip is still not even given the dignity of an Assist Trophy (or even a regular trophy) I may not even buy Smash Ultimate.
Currently chances for that is really low though, and even then, I dunno if this the best day to make the internet freeze even harder than back the day Sonic being shown in Brawl. So feel at ease.
 

Siggy88

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It looks like they're still using the same E3 build, so there may not be anything new shown here. It's just a regular tournament old tournament.
 

MysticKnives

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There's a Smash tournament going on in Japan right now, at an event hosted by Shonen Jump. People are speculating there might be a certain reveal made at the end of this tourney, and I swear to christ if Goku gets in the game and Lip is still not even given the dignity of an Assist Trophy (or even a regular trophy) I may not even buy Smash Ultimate.
Goku in Smash? Latin American fans would love it. DB is real big there.
It looks like they're still using the same E3 build, so there may not be anything new shown here. It's just a regular tournament old tournament.
Also figures that. People were really getting their hopes up for something here?
 

Siggy88

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Well, I think people thought that Smash live stream automatically equals new reveal, but this is just a tournament open to the public. I was hoping to see new items, ATs or stages, but so far I only seen Meowth as a Pokeball pokemon.
 

N. Onymous

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Also figures that. People were really getting their hopes up for something here?
Smash fans are ludicrously starved for information at the moment and will latch on to anything that might potentially have some revelation made about the roster.
 

Staarih

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And unfortunately, that game seems to have bombed hard.

https://nintendosoup.com/japan-sushi-striker-completely-bombed-at-launch/
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...f_sushido_has_shockingly_poor_launch_in_japan

This may make Nintendo be a bit more cautious of creating new untested IP like this. Which is unfortunate, they really tried to push this game with directs and stuff. Personally, I'm waiting for a price drop, as it does look interesting and alot of reviews say that it's pretty fun.
Yeah, a bit of a shame, guess the price point is to blame. Then again, Sushi Striker is still charting on weekly game sales in Japan after a month since release (albeit in mid-40 spots, but still) with about 10k of sales thus far, so maybe it'll slowly climb to a decent performance for what it is? Anyway, I personally really like it and any puzzle genre fan should give it a go.

The tossing and turning around PdP is really weird though, they should just re-release it as is and see how it does in the west.
 
D

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I for one am kinda glad Sushi Striker failed and not just because of maybe seeing PdP again. Intelligent System has pretty much degraded to being a Fire Emblem only developer with the occasional WarioWare. Not only is there no sign of, as mentioned already, PdP, but also the last Advance Wars was 10 years ago by now.. Even Pullblox/Pushmo, which they seemed to push (heh) really hard back then, was suddenly abandoned and hasn't gotten a new game since 2015.

Lip's only appearance in Smash has been as a sticker in Brawl. Hell, they mistake Furil for Lip in one of them.
I get what you mean, but even that isn't entirely correct. Lip hasn't been in one sticker, she has been in none. In fact only 4 fairies had a sticker in Brawl and all of them had the wrong name (having the NPC design, but PdP name).
 
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