The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[N. Onymous]

Am I missing something here, when does Bowser use a Thwomp?

Nowhere, but Bowser is generally associated with Thwomps. I don't think it's a very good equivalency, personally...

Though realistically either way you cut it, it is unnecessary visual noise for Kirby to have a move that Lip has and I can't see Lip playing without using the iconic garbage block in at least one attack. So while not a death sentence, Kirby having the move is a huge detractor.

Like I said, she could drop them in her own Final Smash, or it could work like you said--Kirby just doesn't have the garbage block when he's fighting Lip. (Or she could just use garbage blocks of a subtly different design...) Wouldn't be the first time Smash has messed with the Stone transformations.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Ness's forward Smash doesn't change the fact that there are baseball bat items in the game. The same it'll be for Lip's stick.

She'll just use garbage blocks that are bigger than Kirby's version. Or, possibly, they'll just change Kirby's garbage block entirely in the final version of the game. They want us to suspect nothing because otherwise it wouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Takasmash]

Will Sakurai will not add a new retro rep I hear many fans are saying sense Takamaru was assist trophy once again I dont believe I hope Sakurai dont do that it feels special dont know how to explain it.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Am I missing something here, when does Bowser use a Thwomp?

It's one of his minions.

The point here is that just because Kirby has this inanimate object as part of his down B does not mean anything.

 

[FunAtParties]

It's one of his minions.

The point here is that just because Kirby has this inanimate object as part of his down B does not mean anything.

I agree that it probably doesn't mean anything, but I don't think the comparison works.

I can also see reason for the concern. The garbage block should actually be part of Lip's moveset if she made it. Much like the Lip's stick item, it can very well be a way of saying "look PDP stuff" as somewhat of consolation prize to having no Lip. The Alphonse/Tink stuff shows that things can coexist in creative ways though, so the garbage block shouldn't be cause for concern.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Last night I had this awesome dream where Lip was revealed as playable in front of a live audience and everyone went ballistic.

Then Sakurai showed the Ultra Hand as an item and was about to reveal some kind of StarTropics representation when I woke up.

Needless to say, I was thoroughly disappointed when I did.

 

[N. Onymous]

Now see, I don't have dreams where Lip is confirmed for Smash. I have dreams where she is explicitly shown to not be in the game, and then some idiotic character no one in their right mind wants in the game gets confirmed instead. I don't mean silly characters with a degree of genuine support like Waluigi or generic avatars in sports games, I mean Scooby-Doo and anthropomorphic countries ("China-tan" and "Russia-tan" I'm pretty sure were their names).

...Between you and me? I like your dreams better.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Last night I had this awesome dream where Lip was revealed as playable in front of a live audience and everyone went ballistic.

Then Sakurai showed the Ultra Hand as an item and was about to reveal some kind of StarTropics representation when I woke up.

Needless to say, I was thoroughly disappointed when I did.

That's funny. I also dreamt about Lip being revealed, last night. Now, it was a bunch of new characters, but it was like 7 females and maybe 2-3 males.
The only two I actually remember where Lip and 2B being newcomers.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Like I said, she could drop them in her own Final Smash, or it could work like you said--Kirby just doesn't have the garbage block when he's fighting Lip. (Or she could just use garbage blocks of a subtly different design...) Wouldn't be the first time Smash has messed with the Stone transformations.

No I understand. while I agree it is a possibility, it just seems like a better design decision to remove the block from Kirby's transformation if Lip is in. To me, kirby having the transformation with a confirmed Lip is like Lipstick being an item while Lip is playable.

Still Sakurai could see things differently and decide what you propose to be the best solution in this case. I'm just being a bit wary now because I'm afraid of setting myself up for disappointment later.

 

[MysticKnives]

No I understand. while I agree it is a possibility, it just seems like a better design decision to remove the block from Kirby's transformation if Lip is in. To me, kirby having the transformation with a confirmed Lip is like Lipstick being an item while Lip is playable.

Still Sakurai could see things differently and decide what you propose to be the best solution in this case. I'm just being a bit wary now because I'm afraid of setting myself up for disappointment later.

In something like Smash, it's always good to be cautious.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

In something like Smash, it's always good to be cautious.

Exactly. And it benefits not to lose sleep over what we cannot control.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Exactly. And it benefits not to lose sleep over what we cannot control.

true, but you can't always control sleeping habits. Sometimes you have restless nights or strange dreams.

 

[N. Onymous]

Still Sakurai could see things differently and decide what you propose to be the best solution in this case. I'm just being a bit wary now because I'm afraid of setting myself up for disappointment later.

As much as I love Panel de Pon and Lip, I feel like with this series, preparing yourself for disappointment is the best way to go about things. Sometimes it really does feel like Nintendo and/or Intelligent Systems are ashamed of it.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

As much as I love Panel de Pon and Lip, I feel like with this series, preparing yourself for disappointment is the best way to go about things. Sometimes it really does feel like Nintendo and/or Intelligent Systems are ashamed of it.

yeah its a shame. Personally I find this seems to be an issue with tons of games with a similar aestetic that released in the SNES era. Games like Panel De Pon, Magical Pop'n and Pikiiya! all suffered from this notion that 90s localized games can't be cute or feminine. I have no doubt that had Panel de Pon been localized properly that Lip would have been in the game by now.

 

[Camc10]

Btw, has Sakurai ever said anything on the Lip Stick being a item before?

 

[Homelessvagrant]

not in this latest game, no

he may have mentioned in regards to one of the prior installments but if he did, it was probably just a nod to its origin from during a pick of the day or whatnot.

 

[N. Onymous]

I don't think it got any fanfare whenever it was shown off before. It was treated as any other item. Its trophy in Melee does at least mention its origins, but in Brawl it was confirmed to return on the same day as Munchlax's announcement (as part of Munchlax's announcement), and in Smash 4 we heard about it once publicity photographs for the Wii U version dropped.

Which, all said, makes its complete absence from what we've seen of Ultimate very suspicious. If it were still in the game, why hasn't it shown up yet? Remember, Lip's Stick was fairly common in Melee, Brawl, and SSB4. Part of me wants to say it's just because they haven't implemented it into the demo build, but it's most likely the same code in SSBU that they'd been using since Melee, so if they really wanted to they could just copy-paste it into SSBU. In fact, logically that'd be the most sound course of action, considering how much content in Ultimate seems to be directly reused from earlier Smash games as it is. Hmm...

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I don't think it got any fanfare whenever it was shown off before. It was treated as any other item. Its trophy in Melee does at least mention its origins, but in Brawl it was confirmed to return on the same day as Munchlax's announcement (as part of Munchlax's announcement), and in Smash 4 we heard about it once publicity photographs for the Wii U version dropped.

And on those occasions, it was revealed 143 days before Brawl's Japanese release and 158 days before Smash 3DS' Japanese release. I've calculated that if it's not revealed on the blog by July 17th, it will be the closest reveal to release ever if they decide to show it after that date (I don't know if it was revealed prior to Melee's release so I'm not counting that). Not that it means anything of course but everyday we don't see Lip's Stick just builds my hope up a little bit more.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

If nothing else, no one can say you Lip fans aren't tenacious. 20 pages. Congrats!

(It's no Smash 4 Ridley thread but eh, who's counting?)

 

[MysticKnives]

If nothing else, no one can say you Lip fans aren't tenacious. 20 pages. Congrats!

(It's no Smash 4 Ridley thread but eh, who's counting?)

The thread has really sparked up in the last few months.

 

[MoveMan1]

I don't think it got any fanfare whenever it was shown off before. It was treated as any other item. Its trophy in Melee does at least mention its origins, but in Brawl it was confirmed to return on the same day as Munchlax's announcement (as part of Munchlax's announcement), and in Smash 4 we heard about it once publicity photographs for the Wii U version dropped.

Which, all said, makes its complete absence from what we've seen of Ultimate very suspicious. If it were still in the game, why hasn't it shown up yet? Remember, Lip's Stick was fairly common in Melee, Brawl, and SSB4. Part of me wants to say it's just because they haven't implemented it into the demo build, but it's most likely the same code in SSBU that they'd been using since Melee, so if they really wanted to they could just copy-paste it into SSBU. In fact, logically that'd be the most sound course of action, considering how much content in Ultimate seems to be directly reused from earlier Smash games as it is. Hmm...

Shadow's assist trophy is missing? Shadow as a playable CONFIRMED!

…That's the future you can look forward to if you treat this as a guarantee.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

This is freaking epic, I love this guy's view and opinions. Lip is pretty high up on that list guys!

 

[N. Onymous]

This is freaking epic, I love this guy's view and opinions. Lip is pretty high up on that list guys!

...whose views and opinions? You just posted the MHA season 3 OP. Never mind.

Nice to see people outside of this thread having hope for Lip and supporting her. She really deserves it. (Why is Sudowoodo there, though...?)

Shadow's assist trophy is missing? Shadow as a playable CONFIRMED!

…That's the future you can look forward to if you treat this as a guarantee.

I'm just saying it's logical. No need to hate.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Nice to see people outside of this thread having hope for Lip and supporting her. She really deserves it. (Why is Sudowoodo there, though...?)

Well ... Of what I figured out, some guy converted him into believing that Sudowoodo made a geat decision in terms of moveset.

 

[N. Onymous]

There's someone on another forum I go to who's come up with a legitimate moveset for, of all Pokemon, Seedot. Never underestimate their potential, guess.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

This is freaking epic, I love this guy's view and opinions. Lip is pretty high up on that list guys!

MrTopTenList is an interesting Youtuber, alright.

...I still question why Takamaru, who is mentioned, does not appear on the list while "Pokemon Rep" is and includes Sudowoodu as a potential option...

 

[Camc10]

Shadow's assist trophy is missing? Shadow as a playable CONFIRMED!

…That's the future you can look forward to if you treat this as a guarantee.

Honestly, i lot of characters want have that going for them being included. Shadow, Ashley, Chrom, and Lip to be specific.

 

[Enchess]

I'm impressed by dedication of you Lip fans. Somehow you've managed to convince me she has a chance.

 

[FunAtParties]

I'm all for weird ideas, but I don't understand the waveracer guy. Yeah, Captain Falcon is just a racer too in his game, but he's a high speed futuristic racer, who is also a bounty hunter. To my knowledge, Ryoto or whatever doesn't really have that background. I'm not saying he couldn't work, but I don't understand wanting a generic looking human character that rides a jetski. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I'm all for weird ideas, but I don't understand the waveracer guy. Yeah, Captain Falcon is just a racer too in his game, but he's a high speed futuristic racer, who is also a bounty hunter. To my knowledge, Ryoto or whatever doesn't really have that background. I'm not saying he couldn't work, but I don't understand wanting a generic looking human character that rides a jetski. Maybe it's just me.

Yes, some characters are best waited for a Super Smash Bros Kart Racing game. Like Excitbike Racer.
No, but seriously. I don't understand the deal with Excitebike Racer as an appealing Retro pick. Is it because Taka is down, and Balloon Fighter seems out too that people are looking for something that was released worldwide, and that he was "once" mentioned in an interview during Melee?

As, Balloon Fighter and Lip both actually seems more suitable for a fighting game, with unique, fun and interesting fighting style. I just don't see how Excitebike could fight on a bike all the time? Take him off and he is just a regular guy? Why not Mach Rider then?

 

[Slyshock]

unique, fun and interesting fighting style

Excitebike could fight on a bike all the time

Sounds good to me. Worst I could say about him is that there's not much source material to draw from, so his moveset would likely have to take ROB-level liberties.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Sounds good to me. Worst I could say about him is that there's not much source material to draw from, so his moveset would likely have to take ROB-level liberties.

I'm still thinking about what Sakurai said. Should they lay out ramps for him to jump? And if they took aways his bike, what is he?
We do have a bike with Wario, but what if that was all Wario did. Imagine the glide mechanic on Ice, all the time. He would be very hard to use. I don't see the fun in that.

 

[MysticKnives]

Yes, some characters are best waited for a Super Smash Bros Kart Racing game. Like Excitbike Racer.
No, but seriously. I don't understand the deal with Excitebike Racer as an appealing Retro pick. Is it because Taka is down, and Balloon Fighter seems out too that people are looking for something that was released worldwide, and that he was "once" mentioned in an interview during Melee?

As, Balloon Fighter and Lip both actually seems more suitable for a fighting game, with unique, fun and interesting fighting style. I just don't see how Excitebike could fight on a bike all the time? Take him off and he is just a regular guy? Why not Mach Rider then?

Jokes on you, Excitebiker and Mach Rider are getting combined into one character to be playable. They'll be the ultimate fusion.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Jokes on you, Excitebiker and Mach Rider are getting combined into one character to be playable. They'll be the ultimate fusion.

There's no joke about that. I'm not exactly Excited for the idea, but maybe Mach Rider could become an Echo of Falcon. Now that would be a great joke, wouldn't it?

 

[Takasmash]

There's no joke about that. I'm not exactly Excited for the idea, but maybe Mach Rider could become an Echo of Falcon. Now that would be a great joke, wouldn't it?

Mach Rider as a echo fighter that wouldn't be bad but it make more sense for Black Shadow to be a Captain Falcon echo fighter. Mach Rider use a gun and change thats what I know.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Mach Rider as a echo fighter that wouldn't be bad but it make more sense for Black Shadow to be a Captain Falcon echo fighter. Mach Rider use a gun and change thats what I know.

Well ... You don't know how much I would love that. As you can see in the signature of mine.
I wanted Samurai Goroh, but he got slaughtered again ... Still, while I'm saddened that Goroh is still an Assist Trophy, I would be the exact opposite if Lip were to become an AT herself. As I just want recognition for her at this point, being playable would be the ideal, but still, I find it funny.

Yes, Captain Falcon does also have a gun, but he don't use it. Perhaps that's what we should be campaigning for?
I mean, we did that for Ganondorf, and now he is officially using his swords.

 

[Slyshock]

I'm still thinking about what Sakurai said. Should they lay out ramps for him to jump? And if they took aways his bike, what is he?

Spawning ramps is one idea, yes. He could also pop a wheelie and bounce, or simply move upwards without fanfare. He'd have his bike no matter what, can't have Excitebiker without his bike of excitement.

We do have a bike with Wario, but what if that was all Wario did. Imagine the glide mechanic on Ice, all the time. He would be very hard to use. I don't see the fun in that.

Perhaps your issues with Excitebiker are more personal than practical, then?

Wario's bike is one of the biggest reasons I use him, it's one of my favorite moves in all of Smash. A character that had something similar as a core mechanic would be a dream come true for me.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Spawning ramps is one idea, yes. He could also pop a wheelie and bounce, or simply move upwards without fanfare. He'd have his bike no matter what, can't have Excitebiker without his bike of excitement.



Perhaps your issues with Excitebiker are more personal than practical, then?

Wario's bike is one of the biggest reasons I use him, it's one of my favorite moves in all of Smash. A character that had something similar as a core mechanic would be a dream come true for me.

Of course we do all have our preferences, and I would say that I'm not particurlarly fan of him.
I'm more one of those that needs to be convinced, as I need to see them "dancing" in my mind, to quote Sakurai.
I take a look at the current roster, and then I evaluate each viable option, and their source material, to get a little grasp on how they would affect the roster, if they would be particurlarly fun or not, still, my ideal of fun might vary from what others do, you are right about that, but it's nothing personal to the Excitebiker as a character. I love the fact that the series got a stage in Mario Kart 8, it's in fact one of my favourites, but as for a fighting game, I just don't see how competativly fun he would be.

With Wario, I don't know how many times I've died off the stage because he don't want to jump off from that bike, it's redicolously hilarious.
With that in mind, the tripping mechanic in Brawl, and the ice mechanic in other stages, I don't know how it would work. How would he jump, how would he attack beside wheeling, and charging? Also, how would he swim?

 

[Slyshock]

I just don't see how competativly fun he would be.

I don't see why you're specifying competitive fun, whether or not a character is viable depends on a lot of factors.

With Wario, I don't know how many times I've died off the stage because he don't want to jump off from that bike, it's redicolously hilarious.

There's nothing inconsistent about Wario's bike, that's a matter of character knowledge. In a tournament setting it's expected that one would know the details of their main, so issues like that wouldn't be relevant enough to impact entertainment.

With that in mind, the tripping mechanic in Brawl, and the ice mechanic in other stages, I don't know how it would work. How would he jump, how would he attack beside wheeling, and charging? Also, how would he swim?

Tripping could be Excitebiker crashing, falling onto his side. Ice physics would probably apply the same to him as any other character, making him even more slippery than he already would be. I could see swimming being his bike sputtering along, with his drowning animation being it finally getting too waterlogged and giving up. His other attacks would likely take inspiration from various bike tricks, there's a moveset in his support thread that would probably work well enough.

Sorry about going this far off-topic, but I believe Lip's a strong enough addition that perceived rivals don't need to be denigrated for her to stand out as an attractive choice.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I'm glad you bring it up. Slyshock . It's good to get challanged by my views.


I still have a hard time seeing Excitebike this way, but I don't say he is impossible, by any means, it's more my own personal view on the character, and that I think there are better "retro" representation. If he were to be playable, I'd love to see how they incorporate his moves, and I will give him a fair share of play time, as I do with everyone. I just need to see it for my own eyes to really feel it.

I also agree that Lip is strong enough. I just was curious on Excitebiker, I guess it was wrong thread to bring it up.
I'm just rea