EmptySky00
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2012
- Messages
- 804
- 3DS FC
- 1263-6981-9999
A note before we begin: The Empty Combo is simply Dthrow Dair, and will be referred to that henceforth. It was named by my friend and not me.
I've spent a fair amount of time compiling all of this data. Link's Dthrow Dair has far more variance in regards to when everything works now compared to 3.02 and I always thought it would be useful to know exactly when each follow-up works, so I figured out how fast Link could act when throwing each character, then tested their stun frames for every 50% from 0% until 150%. After that, I found out their quickest anti-combo attack and factored that into the data to be able to figure out the ranges in which everything works.
Download the spreadsheet here.
- What the individual bits of the graphs mean
The blue line on the graph indicates how many frames you can act out of Link’s Dthrow before the opponent is out of stun. The amount of time it takes before Link can act is determined by the target’s weight; the heavier the character you’re throwing, the longer you will have to wait before acting. The advantage is then determined by subtracting this from the thrown character's stun.
The line that extends upward from the four points on the graph indicate that character’s fastest aerial attack. Just because you don’t have quite enough stun to land a follow-up doesn’t mean it isn’t guaranteed. If you can land the next attack a frame before the opponent’s fastest move will come out, it’s technically unavoidable as they have no effective means of stopping you. The character and their fastest possible attack/invincible option is on the top of the graph.
The dotted lines indicate at which point certain follow-ups are guaranteed based on the amount of advantage you have. There are obviously more than 3 potential follow-ups out of throws such as jab, Dsmash, Utilt, Usmash, or whatever else you feel like doing. Unfortunately, those include far more variance as Utilt hits at varying times depending on position, Dsmash only works when the opponent is close to the ground, and so on. Those have to be left up to judgment calls when to use them. The graphs should help you determine when those options are viable regardless.
For some characters, their fall speed is so great that they will hit the ground before being able to act. This is denoted with a red box around the values on the graph. In this instance, their fastest invincible option is 1 (teching). This only applies to no DI. If someone DI’s to the side, they will hit the ground slightly faster. For example, Fox at 40% will hit the ground on frame 41, but if he DI’s to the side, he will hit the ground on frame 37. If something is barely guaranteed and will cause a teching situation, it might be wise to go for something else.
- Things the graphs don’t tell you
The distance the opponent is launched. Sometimes, for instance with Jigglypuff, you’ll have the frame advantage to land the attack but the opponent won’t be close enough to get hit. Use your judgment.
The percentage at which a character will land on a platform. I plan on incorporating this in the future by using the lowest platforms of Battlefield. This information would have been beyond useful to me in the past, so I want to document it.
Some attacks hit on slightly different frames depending on which way you’re facing/where the opponent DI’s. Up tilt is a prime example. The hitbox comes out on frame 9 but doesn’t hit behind him until a bit later.
Position can render frame disadvantage null. For instance, Link's Uair will beat most attacks above him because of its significant disjoint. Even if the character can act, if your position is correct they shouldn't be able to hit you.
I cannot factor in how many frames it takes you to reach the opponent if they DI away at higher percents. This will be more relevant with floatier characters.
Move lethality. This is too highly variable for me to either test or include. You have to account for stale moves, DI, stage position, blast zones, character weight and fall speed, etc. It’s far too much. But you can generally know around what percents each option kills at. Experience will guide the way.
What percents characters hit the ground upon DI’ing. As stated before, this could slightly alter the timing. I would have to test everything twice in order to account for this possibility. I neither have the time nor patience for that. Just be aware that sometimes the graphs will say that a character won’t hit the ground at a certain percent, but when I was testing it they were able to act just barely before hitting the ground. DI may throw those values off.
Simply denoting the startup of a character’s fastest option says nothing about where that option hits. In the instance of Dthrow Dair, Link’s Dair hitbox is essentially on his body, so that shouldn’t matter much. But in other cases a character’s fastest option may be Uair, which will do nothing to combat Spin Attack. And so on.
Jumping away may be a viable option for escaping combos that is faster than trying to beat out the next attack. This is contingent upon position and how fast a given character’s jump is. This is something I cannot account for.
In a few instances armor is a character’s fastest option (such as with Bowser and Yoshi). I have no idea when certain attacks will break each individual armor.
Special thanks to
@
jtm94
for helping me gather all of the data and discovering the enigmatic +4 trend. Also for naming Dthrow Dair the Empty Combo so I can be eternally seen as a narcissist and harassed/mocked for it. <3 I think it sounds cool.
@Umbreon for being an assbandit and making a suicide pact with me.
@Shadic ahehehehehehe.
@Lunchables for the Cracker Stacker ComboTM
The MFMS Foundation.
@Hylian for whatever reason.
@Sethlon for based Sethlon.
And finally for contributions from viewers like you. **** off.
Seriously though, as Smashers we tend to name literally everything arbitrarily. It doesn't affect anyone at all what my friends and I call it; you're allowed to call it whatever you want just as I am. Simply take the information as it is and ignore the name if it so offends you.
If I've made any mistakes, let me know and I'll correct it.
I've spent a fair amount of time compiling all of this data. Link's Dthrow Dair has far more variance in regards to when everything works now compared to 3.02 and I always thought it would be useful to know exactly when each follow-up works, so I figured out how fast Link could act when throwing each character, then tested their stun frames for every 50% from 0% until 150%. After that, I found out their quickest anti-combo attack and factored that into the data to be able to figure out the ranges in which everything works.
Download the spreadsheet here.
- What the individual bits of the graphs mean
The blue line on the graph indicates how many frames you can act out of Link’s Dthrow before the opponent is out of stun. The amount of time it takes before Link can act is determined by the target’s weight; the heavier the character you’re throwing, the longer you will have to wait before acting. The advantage is then determined by subtracting this from the thrown character's stun.
The line that extends upward from the four points on the graph indicate that character’s fastest aerial attack. Just because you don’t have quite enough stun to land a follow-up doesn’t mean it isn’t guaranteed. If you can land the next attack a frame before the opponent’s fastest move will come out, it’s technically unavoidable as they have no effective means of stopping you. The character and their fastest possible attack/invincible option is on the top of the graph.
The dotted lines indicate at which point certain follow-ups are guaranteed based on the amount of advantage you have. There are obviously more than 3 potential follow-ups out of throws such as jab, Dsmash, Utilt, Usmash, or whatever else you feel like doing. Unfortunately, those include far more variance as Utilt hits at varying times depending on position, Dsmash only works when the opponent is close to the ground, and so on. Those have to be left up to judgment calls when to use them. The graphs should help you determine when those options are viable regardless.
For some characters, their fall speed is so great that they will hit the ground before being able to act. This is denoted with a red box around the values on the graph. In this instance, their fastest invincible option is 1 (teching). This only applies to no DI. If someone DI’s to the side, they will hit the ground slightly faster. For example, Fox at 40% will hit the ground on frame 41, but if he DI’s to the side, he will hit the ground on frame 37. If something is barely guaranteed and will cause a teching situation, it might be wise to go for something else.
- Things the graphs don’t tell you
The distance the opponent is launched. Sometimes, for instance with Jigglypuff, you’ll have the frame advantage to land the attack but the opponent won’t be close enough to get hit. Use your judgment.
The percentage at which a character will land on a platform. I plan on incorporating this in the future by using the lowest platforms of Battlefield. This information would have been beyond useful to me in the past, so I want to document it.
Some attacks hit on slightly different frames depending on which way you’re facing/where the opponent DI’s. Up tilt is a prime example. The hitbox comes out on frame 9 but doesn’t hit behind him until a bit later.
Position can render frame disadvantage null. For instance, Link's Uair will beat most attacks above him because of its significant disjoint. Even if the character can act, if your position is correct they shouldn't be able to hit you.
I cannot factor in how many frames it takes you to reach the opponent if they DI away at higher percents. This will be more relevant with floatier characters.
Move lethality. This is too highly variable for me to either test or include. You have to account for stale moves, DI, stage position, blast zones, character weight and fall speed, etc. It’s far too much. But you can generally know around what percents each option kills at. Experience will guide the way.
What percents characters hit the ground upon DI’ing. As stated before, this could slightly alter the timing. I would have to test everything twice in order to account for this possibility. I neither have the time nor patience for that. Just be aware that sometimes the graphs will say that a character won’t hit the ground at a certain percent, but when I was testing it they were able to act just barely before hitting the ground. DI may throw those values off.
Simply denoting the startup of a character’s fastest option says nothing about where that option hits. In the instance of Dthrow Dair, Link’s Dair hitbox is essentially on his body, so that shouldn’t matter much. But in other cases a character’s fastest option may be Uair, which will do nothing to combat Spin Attack. And so on.
Jumping away may be a viable option for escaping combos that is faster than trying to beat out the next attack. This is contingent upon position and how fast a given character’s jump is. This is something I cannot account for.
In a few instances armor is a character’s fastest option (such as with Bowser and Yoshi). I have no idea when certain attacks will break each individual armor.
Special thanks to
@
jtm94
for helping me gather all of the data and discovering the enigmatic +4 trend. Also for naming Dthrow Dair the Empty Combo so I can be eternally seen as a narcissist and harassed/mocked for it. <3 I think it sounds cool.@Umbreon for being an assbandit and making a suicide pact with me.
@Shadic ahehehehehehe.
@Lunchables for the Cracker Stacker ComboTM
The MFMS Foundation.
@Hylian for whatever reason.
@Sethlon for based Sethlon.
And finally for contributions from viewers like you. **** off.
Seriously though, as Smashers we tend to name literally everything arbitrarily. It doesn't affect anyone at all what my friends and I call it; you're allowed to call it whatever you want just as I am. Simply take the information as it is and ignore the name if it so offends you.
If I've made any mistakes, let me know and I'll correct it.
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