The Dreamhack Austin 2017 discussion thread

[TDK]

Starting tomorrow, Dreamhack austin will be taking place in Texas featuring a solid chunk of the top 50, including ZeRo, Ally, MKLeo, VoiD, Larry Lurr, Locus, MVD, and more.

Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

Upsets

Spoiler

Konga 2-0 Samsora
DeluxeMenu 2-1 Zinoto

 

[ぱみゅ]

Took the liberty to update with the correct link to the stream.

Let's watch some hype matches

 

[Ziodyne 21]

I notice a lot of the big players are using their secondaries a lot in pools to really good effect

ESAM used his
Capt.Zack used for the first time in a while for a major competition

Ally even brought out a which I didn't even know he has.


Looks like lots of players experimenting with their subs for certain situations and MU's

 

[chaos11011]

My biggest gripe with this tournament so far is what they decide to put in pools. It started with Leo r1, then two Void sets in a row, then 2 Ally sets in a row, then Leo again. I feel like its a bit obvious that they want top players on stream for views. Dont get me wrong, thats fine, but other than Void VS Lucy, its just Top Player bodybagging a local player.

One of my favorite aspects of pools is seeing what the local talent can do and seeing the stream build up to the winners finals of the pool. Right now, it just feels like "let's follow 3 top players around across 3 pools and ignore that your major should showcase the strengths of your scene with no storyline consistency"

A comparison would be say, Dreamland, where you'd see newer Florida threats and be curious to see them do well later in the bracket like Blank.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I notice a lot of the big players are using their secondaries a lot in pools to really good effect

ESAM used his
Capt.Zack used for the first time in a while for a major competition

Ally even brought out a which I didn't even know he has.


Looks like lots of players experimenting with their subs for certain situations and MU's

So Ally also likes to Expand Dong? Nice to see him experiment with other characters, here's a question, how long do you think it will take before M2K drops out again?

 

[TDK]

Zack definitely respected AeroLink more than Chag.

On a similar vein, AeroLink seems like a really underrated player. He beat ESAM at G4 and placed 25th, and held his own vs Captain Zack here.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Zack definitely respected AeroLink more than Chag.

On a similar vein, AeroLink seems like a really underrated player. He beat ESAM at G4 and placed 25th, and held his own vs Captain Zack here.

Yea taking the first match in a set in a ditto with who is really looking like the current top Bayo main is pretty impressive. But yea, Zack kinda downloaded Aerolink after that first match

 

[TDK]

What's with a lot of top Melee players favouring Ganon in this game?

 

[Nocally]

What's with a lot of top Melee players favouring Ganon in this game?

when they lose, they can just blame it on the character/ lack of trying.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well looks like we got our first notable upset of Dreamhack

Konga 2-0 Samsora

EDIT.

Annd heres our 2nd.

DeluxeMenu 2-1 Zinoto


The Big grapplers are taking names here

 

[TDK]

DeluxeMenu 2-1 Zinoto

That bowser was clean

https://clips.twitch.tv/CharmingBoringPassionfruitImGlitch


Oh, and M2K dropped, or lost to Kadc .

 

[Ziodyne 21]

The big grapplers are having a great showing! wow.

 

[TDK]

Top 48 Winners:
ZeRo vs Weegee
DeluxeMenu vs Konga
Ally vs Karna
Captain Zack vs MVD
MKLeo vs Whispy
Larry Lurr vs Locus
VoiD vs Dakpo
ESAM vs K9Sbruce

Top 48 Losers:
Gnes vs Kadc
Nyhita vs Lima
GrimTurtle vs Rick
L.U.C.Y. vs BigDaddy
Haipe vs A1
ForbiddenOne vs Mikeffect
Aarow vs Lole
Jumbolias vs SaSSy
Cashoo vs Yuruloki
AeroLink vs Cyanide
ThisGuy vs Shadow_foxXD
Jerm vs ZAY
Samsora vs Victus
Zinoto vs Crump
onethreefour. vs P2P with Gibus
Dragonite vs Goyo

Spoiler: Predictions

ZeRo > Weegee
Konga > DeluxeMenu
Ally > Karna
MVD > Captain Zack
MKLeo > Whispy
Locus > Larry (There's even a DK in BC, too, so Locus has practice in that matchup)
VoiD > Dakpo
ESAM > K9Sbruce

Gnes > Kadc
Lima > Nyhita
Grimturtle > Rick
L.U.C.Y. > BigDaddy
Haipe > A1
Mikeffect > ForbiddenOne
Aarow > Lole
SaSSy > Jumbolias
Yuruloki > Cashoo
AeroLink > Cyanide
ThisGuy > Shadow_foxXD
Jerm > ZAY
Samsora > Victus
Zinoto > Crump
P2P With Gibus > onethreefour.
Dragonite > Goyo

Upset-wise, this has been an incredibly quiet tournament.

Mew2King and Day were both double-DQed.


EDIT: So, Samsora and Zinoto are playing for 25th...

 

[Wintermelon43]

Wait, does Samsora and Zinoto face each other for 24th????

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Captian Zack 3-0 MVD


Zack with the excessive Bayo planking and stalling out the clock. That..I dont know what to say . I will admit I will defend Bayo moat times but that...hoo boy.

 

[Jjab430]

We need a ledge grab limit for this dumbass character

 

[TDK]

"Ledge Grab Limit when?" posts incoming

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well Zack will go om to face Ally next. Mario should have the tools to be able deal with...that right?

 

[TDK]

Locus 3-1 Larry Lurr

Locus Demolished DK and would have had a 3-0 if it wasn't for the non-final hits of Fox's fair having some... interesting properties

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Looking onto it. ZeRo and Locus pretty much have dream brackets at this tournament dont they?

 

[Meatbag]

Well Zack will go om to face Ally next. Mario should have the tools to be able deal with...that right?

Unlikely since mario is a very stubby haracter.

 

[NotLiquid]

Bayonetta's strengths as a character are so far evident that she doesn't need to cheese through planking most of the time.

Zack as a player knows this better than anyone. Of course, the fact that it is Zack we're talking about, is exactly why he embraces it.

 

[TDK]

F.L.U.D.D. could mess it up by pushing her away from the ledge, but that's about all I can see Mario doing.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well a win over Ally would be absolutely huge for Zack if that happens. Depedndig on how far he gets I think he will be considered the agreed top Bayo main

 

[TDK]

Well a win over Ally would be absolutely huge for Zack if that happens. Depedndig on how far he gets I think he will be considered the agreed top Bayo main

He should be already.

Also, Zinoto has a close set with samsora then instantly plays Larry for 17th, ouch...

EDIT: Larry Lurr 3-1 Zinoto

 

[chaos11011]

I feel like counterplay will be developed and make it less centralizing and more "change your char".

Sheik can air needles, for example.

A bit of theory that I will lab with the Bayo mains in New England, but Duck Hunt has a very cool way around it if my theory is correct. Place Can on edge and hold shield. If Bayo bites, she gets blown up by Can, maybe even stage spiking if she challenges it from below (you can punish tech if she does so). If she doesn't bite, you can dtilt any ledge waits.

You can also throw a Clay Pigeon near ledge and detonate it on regrabs. Or use gunman to discourage her from going above the ledge.

I bet other characters have counterplay too.

 

[TDK]

That was... unexpected.

MKLeo 3-0 Locus

Beating the best Ryu in that fashion is somewhat surprising, considering Leo's history vs Ryu.

 

[NotLiquid]

Zack is not playing optimal this tournament at all.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Top 48 Winners:
ZeRo vs Weegee
DeluxeMenu vs Konga
Ally vs Karna
Captain Zack vs MVD
MKLeo vs Whispy
Larry Lurr vs Locus
VoiD vs Dakpo
ESAM vs K9Sbruce

Top 48 Losers:
Gnes vs Kadc
Nyhita vs Lima
GrimTurtle vs Rick
L.U.C.Y. vs BigDaddy
Haipe vs A1
ForbiddenOne vs Mikeffect
Aarow vs Lole
Jumbolias vs SaSSy
Cashoo vs Yuruloki
AeroLink vs Cyanide
ThisGuy vs Shadow_foxXD
Jerm vs ZAY
Samsora vs Victus
Zinoto vs Crump
onethreefour. vs P2P with Gibus
Dragonite vs Goyo

Spoiler: Predictions

ZeRo > Weegee
Konga > DeluxeMenu
Ally > Karna
MVD > Captain Zack
MKLeo > Whispy
Locus > Larry (There's even a DK in BC, too, so Locus has practice in that matchup)
VoiD > Dakpo
ESAM > K9Sbruce

Gnes > Kadc
Lima > Nyhita
Grimturtle > Rick
L.U.C.Y. > BigDaddy
Haipe > A1
Mikeffect > ForbiddenOne
Aarow > Lole
SaSSy > Jumbolias
Yuruloki > Cashoo
AeroLink > Cyanide
ThisGuy > Shadow_foxXD
Jerm > ZAY
Samsora > Victus
Zinoto > Crump
P2P With Gibus > onethreefour.
Dragonite > Goyo

Upset-wise, this has been an incredibly quiet tournament.

Mew2King and Day were both double-DQed.


EDIT: So, Samsora and Zinoto are playing for 25th...

Victus does not play lucas anymore, he is a bayonetta main.

EDIT: I find it funny how the reddit thread has Aarrow listed as a mewtwo.

For Sunday, top 6 will be on the stream https://twitch.tv/dreamhacksmash

 

[TDK]

https://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacksmash

Here's the top 8 stream, Larry vs Konga right now.

 

[|RK|]

So Locus DID beat the Pikachu... the Samus just too strong. Funny how Samus started as a character ESAM used when he was done playing seriously, now it's a genuinely legitimate CP. Shame - had ANTi kept using the Charizard, I think he could have done the same with that

 

[FamilyTeam]

ZeRo.
ZeRo
Up Tilt kills.
Jab>Up Tilt is a true kill combo.
Please.
Use it.

 

[TDK]

Ally 3-1 ZeRo

 

[NotLiquid]

PersistentBlade not so persistent

 

[FamilyTeam]

Let me guess
"Marth wins against Mario - Lucina loses."

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Ally could now possibly take this tournent and ANTi and so many others still say Mario is not top 10. Not to say i think he is to high but likey around #9 or 10.

People are being to quick to sell the plumber short.

 

[the king of murder]

Void had the right idea against Cloud but misplayed in some key moments. Unfourtanely for Shiek,that can cost you. He should have used way more needles though. It's not always the optimal thing to do but against Cloud who liks to shorthop space with his aerials it would have helped tremendously. It's something that Mr.R does really well against other Clouds.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Diddy Bair and MFK hitboxes make me question what high-grade gin Sakurai and co. were on when developing him sometimes.

You could tell Larry stopped giving a damn after that MFK hitbox almost killed him backward at 80.

 

[FamilyTeam]

ZeRo 3-2 Ally

 

[Luigi player]

Diddy Bair and MFK hitboxes make me question what high-grade gin Sakurai and co. were on when developing him sometimes.

You could tell Larry stopped giving a damn after that MFK hitbox almost killed him backward at 80.

You could say that about a lot of hitboxes in this game.

Diddy having a great hitbox for his MFK is to defend himself against attacks. He's committing a little more than normal when he does it because of staying in a set trajectory without being able to do anything for a little bit (he also can't upB after), so it's just a mixup that helps a lot.
You can just wait it out and punish it. Or try trading with it, or coming with good-range disjointed moves or hit him from above/below.
It just needs practice to find out how to best react to it, because it's so fast and you kinda have to predict it to be able to react to it correctly (while being able to punish it).

I'm still seeing people not knowing on how to deal with Diddy-stuff.

If you're not in his possible uthrow->uair kill-% window why would you risk trying to shieldgrab a banana when you could die for it if he just does a dtilt or something right after? There's no life-threatening danger. But if he catches you with a dtilt to stay safe from an immediate grab you might die for it.
It's baffling that he even tries going for it because it's so unsafe, same with all these landing fairs.

Zero is just predicting and reacting to his opponents over and over again to win all of these "50:50s", but people don't seem to be ready for them or know how to deal with them better.

Zero predicted the super laggy Aura Sphere from MKLeo a mile away and was in the air, ready to throw the banana his way to get a kill-confirm into fsmash.
Then a bit later the same situation is happening, this time MKLeo was a little more ready for it and was able to move again before the banana would hit him, but he dashes right into it, tripped and died for it.
Leo also didn't seem to have the Lucario truly ready, but still managed to keep it generally close.

Another thing I've seen from people, also in the ESAM set: they don't seem to know when Diddy is more likely to do certain things.

If you have Diddy without a banana he's going to try to run away and get another one, or, if the opponent is near enough and could hit him, he'll try to get a grab, dtilt, sideB, fair to get an opening for another banana. When he has a banana he can only really try to throw it or sideB (in the air zdrop to aerial also works). Idk why ESAM stopped camping with thunderjolts when he was very close to Zero when Zero didn't have a banana out, because obviously Zero would try to go for the above mentioned things and dtilt was to be expected. Keep a safe distance away from dtilt and be ready for sideBs while staying somewhat close to not let him get another free banana.
The thunderjolts were clearly forcing Zero to jump or shield, which would have been a much safer way for ESAM to approach.

These were just small little details that were very strange to see for me, because it was pretty obvious what Zeros options were in these scenarios and a lot of people aren't really trying to stay safe, but punish safe/favorable things and get punished themselves for trying.

At first I thought Zero was just really, really good. Now I don't only think that, but also that other players still need to learn/understand the Diddy MU better.