Meta "The Dog House" - Duck Hunt Moveset/AT Thread/Metagame Discussion

[Shady Penguin]

Good job to Dandy Penguin for getting 9th at Tipped Off 11. He COULD have probably even gone as far as Top 8 and even winners-semis if he beat Scatt (Megaman) but he lost an early stock to a pretty bad mistake (random shield drop near the edge to a megaman fsmash)

DH is getting good tournament results lately, but could always be getting further. Good luck to you dogs in the future that rep DH in tournaments, I'll be trying to take 1st at my locals soon

EDIT: GOOD GOD MVD's Dog is rusty

Much appreciated.

I tried my best, but Scatt's Megaman was definitely on point. It was a fun match, and I was happy to get a game off of a player of that caliber.

I'm gonna be trying to have some more strong showings with the character in the future.

 

[crashbfan]

 

[crashbfan]

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

I was watching the latest vids that VGbootcamp just put up on youtube, and when I saw Boss roll in between Dunnobro's smash attacks, my heart sank. It looked like he was getting the right reads most of the time for down-throw > frisbee, though.

 

[TheMissingLinc]

I should mention, Because of how DHD's down smash pulls the opponent around you, this attack can hit from ledge if timed properly and it will stage spike. I've been racking up plenty of kills on people who like to edge camp this way.

 

[DunnoBro]

Edit: scratch all this crap

The real ledge set-up is much simpler and easier. It might seem obvious to a lot of you and we've all probably done it before but I think it's the BnB ledge set-up.

Simply place the can around the very tip of the stage, leave it there, then just wait for the opponent to take an option. Don't try to charge fsmash for extra coverage hail mary kills, just wait.

React to rolls with grabs/pivot grabs (or turnaround dsmash. I tried fsmash on reaction but it doesn't seem to work ) and ledge jumps with uairs.

If for some reason they standard get-up right into the can, go for a dash grab. Due to the momentum dhd should be holding the opponent over the ledge, disallowing the can to disrupt it if you try for a throw > can combo.

Do those with any grabs you get.

You can also try to surprise ledge jumping opponents with pivot usmash towards the ledge. EACH HIT can catch the ledge jump making it very reliable. (Usmash is also the only smash which doesn't disturb a sitting can)

You don't 100% need to pivot usmash, but it makes the back hit higher thus connect better. It also faces you inward letting you just grab an opponent if they use standard get-up afterward.

If they don't take an option, just shoot the can to force one. Dsmash consistently catches all their options in this scenario but doesn't really kill and you tend to blow yourself up with the can in my experience.

 

[DunnoBro]

Also I'm starting to think smash stick is necessary. Walking to space d/fsmash, tournaround dsmash, on reaction punish dsmash, and pivot usmash at the ledge seems really important... Also not really have trouble doing sh uairs with dhd for some reason anyway. Makes spacing fair harder though :/

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Also I'm starting to think smash stick is necessary. Walking to space d/fsmash, tournaround dsmash, on reaction punish dsmash, and pivot usmash at the ledge seems really important... Also not really have trouble doing sh uairs with dhd for some reason anyway. Makes spacing fair harder though :/

I'm not familiar with the term smash stick, dumb it down for me? Thankszy!

 

[DunnoBro]

I'm not familiar with the term smash stick, dumb it down for me? Thankszy!

Just cstick set to smash (default but most people tend to switch)

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Just cstick set to smash (default but most people tend to switch)

Ah I zeee! Thanks! I need to get back into practicing aerials and back-air cans with again. I got too used to it with c-stick. I remember reading you use R to jump? Is that right? Do you still use R?

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't recommend stopping using c-stick for aerials in situations you were comfortable at before, just don't hold on too long. DHD's air speed isn't too high so the penalty isn't very high anyway.

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Aaaaah Gotcha!

 

[EpicSonicLatios]

So is dthrow to uair a reliable true combo at kill percents? Duck hunt's biggest weakness is that the opponent lives past 150 routinely, but I wondered if this would somewhat negate the weakness a little bit.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

DunnoBro why are you such a genius?

 

[chaos11011]

Hey everyone! I made a video out of the blue about some ATs people should utilize in their play. None of these are really ground breaking per say, but I've always had the mindset that the more options you know, the better. I also apologize for the recording, as I didn't realize I cut off part of the right side of the screen. Oops!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HCIPCJ4bOM

Some things I cover are:

New Edgeguard Option: Run off the stage with a gunman, jump & B-reverse can, up-B while pinging the can, get up attack (due to the B pressing), anything you like (bair/fair/nair off stage, spawn another gunmen, charge a smash, reposition etc.)

With the gunmen being spawned, it covers the area in front of you and you can set up the can. While pinging the can, you recover back to the ledge. I theorize that, if someone is at the ledge during this, the can will smack them as you trump them. This option covers a lot of space (in chronological order away from the bottom of the stage, stage's walls, the ledge, the space you cover with the get up attack, off the stage on the same height level as the ledge, and whatever you choose to do after the can explodes)

Wall Jump Techniques: Wall jumps can be used to stall a bit of time if you can't quite reach someone trying to recover. Wall jump -> gunmen -> aerial covers quite some space. Wall jump -> clay pigeon on stage is also good for attacking mid range. You can use the gunmen to the same effect. Use this to mix up and feel your opponent out.

Run Off Gunmen: By B-Reversing a gunman while you run off stage, you can cover space on stage while being protected by the stage itself. It's good to buy time. Like the wall jump techniques, use this to test the waters and see how your opponent reacts.

Foxtrot Can: This is probably the most important tech that I hope everyone is already using in their game. Being able to move around with the can is crucial and can be used for pressure and protection. You can move around the stage while having the can right above you, thus protecting you from aerials. If the DH community can perfect this tech, we'll be able to improve our game so much. It's strong offensive and defensive option.

 

[Ridel]

So is dthrow to uair a reliable true combo at kill percents? Duck hunt's biggest weakness is that the opponent lives past 150 routinely, but I wondered if this would somewhat negate the weakness a little bit.

That's a negative it's at best a 50/50 with an airdoge read but that's pretty generous considering the u-air has some faulty hitboxes.

 

[chaos11011]

Doing some stage research in attempts to maximize my projectile knowledge. Some things I learned on Battlefield (stuff I knew already but getting absolutes on them is cool):

If you do a Short Hop Clay Pigeon (weak or strong) right under the middle of a side platform, it will land on the opposite side platforn. A clay pigeon anywhere else on the stage will not place the pigeon there (thus, landing either on the ground or off stage).

If you want to harrass someone off stage with a pigeon, take note of the platforms. Say someone is off stage on the right and you're near the left platform. If you throw a smashed pigeon right below the inner edge of the platform while you're on the ground (slightly where the side platform and top platform meet), the pigeon will hover slightly over the ledge and fall off stage. Useful for hitting people wanting to recover to the ledge.

Placing a can right under the middle platform and doing UTilt will have the can graze the platform and land back on the ground. This will hurt anyone on the platform, and if no one is there, it'll return back to you. If you press B while it reaches its peak in the air, you can consistantly plant it on top of the platform. Note that UTilt sends the can slightly backwards or forwards depending on where you hit it, so if done bellow the edges of the platform (say the left edge while you're facing right), the can will sometimes land on the side platform instead (in this case, the left platform).

Placing a can on the ledge and using the backwards/butt hitbox of the dash attack to lunge the can backwards will allow you to hit anyone on the top platform. The can will go off stage if you miss.

Place a can on the inner edge of a side platform. Dtilt/FAir the can towards the stage and the can will land on the other platform. Use Ftilt instead, it will land below the platform. Use Utilt, and if you use the correct hitbox, it will land on the top platform. Use Jab 1 and the can will be in the middle of the stage, on the ground.

And, the simplest but most effective one is that you can utilize gunmen to cover space on a platform while you threaten the ground. Running towards the edge of a stage, short hopping + BReverse gunman in the air is a good option, because return back to a position where you're facing your opponent and you can do something like a SH FAir/Dash Attack/Grab/Pigeon/Can on the ground. If you hold your momentum away from the stage immediately after you BReverse, you will end up off stage. This is a good option if you want temporary cover as the gunmen is threatening the air.


---

Simple stuff but it can be used to our advantage if learned and implemented! I could probably do videos of this if needed.

 

[DunnoBro]

After labbing ledge stuff some more, the trick shot > smash toss clay at the ledge, while still good coverage doesn't really accomplish much and honestly kind of iffy setting up due to how long it takes.

It mostly seems best for just discouraging high recoveries/falling ledge grabs due to all the hitboxes around the ledge, but it isn't really worth getting ledge get-ups with except maybe as a mix-up for someone who likes to sit on the ledge.

Personally, I found that since downthrowing on the ledge has less knockback, and people tend to DI throws at the ledge inward... It's best to just fish for grabs on the ledge. Dthrow true combos into uair if they didn't di away even until very high percents due to ledge throw mechanics. And if they did DI away, it's a 50/50 for fair or dair/nair. (nair seems better, meatier and actually kills sooner) Which by the ledge, even fair can kill with said outward DI.

Also, I've started immediately smash tossing and detonating after fthrow when dthrow > fair stops being a thing. It isn't a true combo or anything, but I am finding it demands an immediate jump or airdodge. Sometimes if they time their jump wrong, the explosion can get their jump but in general I'm looking to snipe their jumps with fair/nair, and their air dodges with a can and maybe nair frame trap if it's worth. Nair > Can/Fair will often kill this close to the blast zone.

Otherwise, I just sit on the ledge and gunmen + nair + grab mixups to try getting their get-up. I have a bias for FH nair since it can get both ledge jump, and standard get-up/roll (by nairing again when landing) and it just flows well.

But if they're a character like ness or luigi or tends to standard set-up, i like to just short hop to feint between fairs and dash grabs for when they do.

 

[(Buddha)]

////////////////////////////////////

 

[DunnoBro]

Is throwing out a camp meta? Like, sending a gun man, the can, and a pigeon bad? Because if you get the short gun man, I dont think he destroys the pigeon, which means he acts as defense, while you can annoy your opponent with 2 projectiles. This "method" seam to work when your edge guarding too, because the only option they have to avoid anything is jumping to get back to the stage rather than get up attack, roll, or normal get up. Plus, you can position the gun men in the air or ground.

Only throw out multiple projectiles against very slow or very campy characters/players. Your projectiles are slow, laggy, and don't actually cover for DHD very well.

You pretty much cycle between can and gunmen as they both serve similar purposes and work well together.

After you get one out(or both) you approach with shield dash into grab to punish grounded approaches/shield sitting and sh fair to punish jumps or aerial approaches. Nair to cross them up and kill at higher percents. They can roll, but it just resets the situation or sometimes the gunmen will still hit them.

 

[DunnoBro]

Some little findings:

1: Gunmen > Prepared RAR SH Bair/SH Nair (NOT on reaction. Time your bair with the gunmen shot, only trying to hit their shield) seems like a very potent option for multiple reasons.

Reason 1: Bair true combos off all the gunmen if they hit
Reason 2: Depending on which gunmen and how long they held their shield, bair is GUARANTEED to poke their shield. (Tested vs mario, sheik, and pikachu. seems universal enough if it applies to them)
Reason 3: Even if they held shield, it does a LOT of shield damage.
Reason 4: It hits them out of their jump and sometimes roll when they try to avoid getting grabbed.

At mid percents, throwing frisbee over someone while gunmen is out might be a decent set-up for a low % kill too.

2: Ledge bait.

Essentially, since frisbee can be initiated frame-1 this lets it breaks some grabs if we know it's coming and it's our only option quick enough to stop it.

So when you fail to fsmash someone's standard get-up, mash sideb to try to break their grab(It's often the hardest punish they have due to their back to the ledge and backthrow stuff with our recovery). At point blank you can kill confirm if this works. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work on every character consistently.

Alternatively, frame-1 trickshot does work on everyone but has much less reward and consistency since it's usually on the ledge.

3: Ledge set-ups

I fine-tuned my ledge game a bit more. No more bashing the frisbee into the can, just get the can around the standard get-up point as usual.

Then however, turn your back to the ledge. This lets you react to a roll with the first hit of usmash or grab. Generally you'll be there as soon as you turn around after shooting the can to the ledge.

Be prepared to react to ledge jumps first of all, as that's the only option not obviously covered by you. Uair covers it veeeerry easily, but double jump bair kills better and gets them back offstage. So default to that if you can and they're not at kill percent for uair anyway.

If they buffer an air dodge, nair and bair are your best punishes. And no aerial beats both uair and bair so just mix it up.

If they hang AT ALL, as soon as you think they'll run out of invincibility you should fsmash. No charge. It covers hang, ledge jump, and standard. Plus, the can will combo and pseudo-extend the hitbox to catch standard get-up better.

Now, if they standard get-up you have to mix it up to punish that on reaction.

A: Grab and go for ledge dthrow combos (which has less knockback and thus can true combo into uair at kill percent or 50/50 for fair/nair if they DI out and air dodge) Since the can is kind of inside you, you can't really throw into it for kills until very high percent. (Around when these ledge combos stop working, fortunately)

B: Fsmash to punish jabs/spot dodge/roll/jump of them trying to avoid getting grabbed
Grab can get jump too mind you, but this is really the only consistent way to make them scared on the ledge. With the can there, they'll be in more shieldstun and you can trick shot/frisbee to escape if you need to (Hopefully)

I'm pretty much done with this character but I'm confident these tactics are apart of his absolute optimal play. Don't let it die.

 

[DunnoBro]

Potentially something big, after finding out how well soft hit of fair confirms I went to lab and I think I found not only a kill set-up but an entire string of mindgames and neutral that could change the entire metagame for the character.

Approach with full hop gunmen > Fall with fair

This is the standard approach. The fair from a full hop has very little range and is only the early hitbox, but with the gunmen at your back it is essentially safe from being grabbed. (unless it's the long shooter)

This fair hitbox confirms into either another fair, or if you have the space a jump canceled sliding usmash. You generally won't slide far enough at kill percent without it. On floatier characters you can try for frisbee or even nair/upair if their di is off.

Next comes the big part, since they know the gunmen is there they will likely hold shield. Now, you COULD grab at this point. Which you may want to at low combo percents.

However, when it's time to kill is when the mix-ups come into play.

If they keep holding shield, start landing with nair or fair depending on the spacing. If nair would hit then always do that.

Except for the quick shooter, even with nair's endlag your endlag is ALWAYS covered by the gunmen. And nair can either kill raw or this soft hit of fair can set up for one.

But, if they were STILL shielding, fsmash. Yes, you heard me. At this point, with the hit from any of the gunmen all the hits of fsmash will connect on their shield at this spacing. This is why i said space the fair, it doesn't have enough push if they're too close but nair doesn't have enough range to always do it.

Fsmash will do one of three things at this point:

1: Poke due to how small their shield is
2: Break their shield
3: Be comboed into by the gunmen or just hit them raw when they try to drop shield/roll out of panic for how small their shield is.

Note: Yes, you CAN be grabbed before the fsmash and after the fair. But if the gunmen break the grab, it can confirm into a kill for you as well. Just watch out for damage kill throws like mario's bthrow, it could hit the gunmen before it saves you.

There may also be mix-ups with frisbee and can since they can be buffered from frame 1. Unsure, but frisbee would be to beat grabs for sure. Spacing it is really hard vs some chars though

That's probably why gunmen shoot the frisbee, it'd be broken if we could double empty land with it lol Though you kinda can with certain gunmen... hmm

 

[WispBae]

Potentially something big, after finding out how well soft hit of fair confirms I went to lab and I think I found not only a kill set-up but an entire string of mindgames and neutral that could change the entire metagame for the character.

Approach with full hop gunmen > Fall with fair

This is the standard approach. The fair from a full hop has very little range and is only the early hitbox, but with the gunmen at your back it is essentially safe from being grabbed. (unless it's the long shooter)

This fair hitbox confirms into either another fair, or if you have the space a jump canceled sliding usmash. You generally won't slide far enough at kill percent without it. On floatier characters you can try for frisbee or even nair/upair if their di is off.

Next comes the big part, since they know the gunmen is there they will likely hold shield. Now, you COULD grab at this point. Which you may want to at low combo percents.

However, when it's time to kill is when the mix-ups come into play.

If they keep holding shield, start landing with nair or fair depending on the spacing. If nair would hit then always do that.

Except for the quick shooter, even with nair's endlag your endlag is ALWAYS covered by the gunmen. And nair can either kill raw or this soft hit of fair can set up for one.

But, if they were STILL shielding, fsmash. Yes, you heard me. At this point, with the hit from any of the gunmen all the hits of fsmash will connect on their shield at this spacing. This is why i said space the fair, it doesn't have enough push if they're too close but nair doesn't have enough range to always do it.

Fsmash will do one of three things at this point:

1: Poke due to how small their shield is
2: Break their shield
3: Be comboed into by the gunmen or just hit them raw when they try to drop shield/roll out of panic for how small their shield is.

Note: Yes, you CAN be grabbed before the fsmash and after the fair. But if the gunmen break the grab, it can confirm into a kill for you as well. Just watch out for damage kill throws like mario's bthrow, it could hit the gunmen before it saves you.

There may also be mix-ups with frisbee and can since they can be buffered from frame 1. Unsure, but frisbee would be to beat grabs for sure. Spacing it is really hard vs some chars though

That's probably why gunmen shoot the frisbee, it'd be broken if we could double empty land with it lol Though you kinda can with certain gunmen... hmm

We shall call this...

The "JUST DO IT" approach. Only a madman would F-Smash would Duck Hunt.

I'm assuming this set up is mostly tested when they have a full shield, but what if they have already taken shield damage? Wouldn't the gunmen cause a shield poke?

 

[DunnoBro]

We shall call this...

The "JUST DO IT" approach. Only a madman would F-Smash would Duck Hunt.

I'm assuming this set up is mostly tested when they have a full shield, but what if they have already taken shield damage? Wouldn't the gunmen cause a shield poke?

Shield poke gunmen still generally combo into fsmash, though they can also hit them out of it.

If this is real, this may be why his smashes are so inconsistent.

 

[Perris6]

I've been experimenting with a few stuff one being walking with the can. As you know, walking in this game is OP and allows you to do all of your moves in an instant without having to stop or inputting a dash attack on accident. Now add walking with your can and you're golden! it can lead to some mind games, backwards coverage, and throw setups.

I've also messed with some bair can setups. Excuse the quality, had to record using my phone.

 

[DunnoBro]

oh my god someone do fthrow > running fh gunmen at mid-high percents

It frame traps sooo well how did i never notice. That must be why fthrow has almost no growth knockback.

You can fair, nair, or empty land before landing this way. And with the opponent not knowing which gunmen does which they'll get so confused they could make a bad option, this leads to easy smashes

The input is obnoxious without a shoulder jump so maybe that's why no one noticed

Also, it seems like shing trick shot is always better. Goes at a better angle, is quicker oos and doesn't do that crap where it detonates on people's shields when they dash in.

Also, after looking and testing it. There's no reason our uthrow shouldn't work like diddy's.

It has extremely vertical knockback, around 0 if they don't air dodge the uair it's an easy 30 damage (uair will true combo into another). Almost zero characters can beat uair in this situation so it'd have to be an air dodge, which you can still punish with nair or fair.

You can also dair their airdodge just like diddy, at around mid percents that might set up for a kill.

At higher percents, you fh then wait to see which way the jumped/DI and gunmen in that direction. You then try to catch their landing yourself or uair them if they didn't actually jump. The gunmen can often cover their airdodge and still set up a kill confirm.

 

[Perris6]

oh my god someone do fthrow > running fh gunmen at mid-high percents

It frame traps sooo well how did i never notice. That must be why fthrow has almost no growth knockback.

You can fair, nair, or empty land before landing this way. And with the opponent not knowing which gunmen does which they'll get so confused they could make a bad option, this leads to easy smashes

The input is obnoxious without a shoulder jump so maybe that's why no one noticed

Also, it seems like shing trick shot is always better. Goes at a better angle, is quicker oos and doesn't do that crap where it detonates on people's shields when they dash in.

Also, after looking and testing it. There's no reason our uthrow shouldn't work like diddy's.

It has extremely vertical knockback, around 0 if they don't air dodge the uair it's an easy 30 damage (uair will true combo into another). Almost zero characters can beat uair in this situation so it'd have to be an air dodge, which you can still punish with nair or fair.

You can also dair their airdodge just like diddy, at around mid percents that might set up for a kill.

At higher percents, you fh then wait to see which way the jumped/DI and gunmen in that direction. You then try to catch their landing yourself or uair them if they didn't actually jump. The gunmen can often cover their airdodge and still set up a kill confirm.

This has been my go to option after mid percent fthrow follow ups and should be the option you go for. Like you said, it is a frame trap and worst case scenario they will use their jump in which you can trap them easier.

 

[DunnoBro]

Actually i was tired and forgot i already did that lol I just never thought about it too much

Uthrow seems very similar to diddy's actually, no attacks beat uair but it isn't a true combo at low percent. You can however just nair after. You can also dair for a harder punish.

Uthrow sends them much more vertical and is less DIable, similar to diddy duck hunt should be able to create landing traps with his uthrow. Typical two jump opponents should follow about the same patterns at different percents.

 

[DunnoBro]

I think I was trying too hard with uthrow.

The most success I've had was just full hop trick shotting with their DI. If they air dodge, you're in perfect position for fair to connect and it can push them back into the can. You can also nair/dair to kill raw if they're more inside you.

But the landing traps are the simplest of all, just do the most appropriate smash attack.

Fsmash if they're weaving towards the ledge, away from you.
Usmash if they're just going away from you but not quite to the ledge. Make sure not to charge and it's generally best to jump cancel it for extra distance.
Dsmash if they're landing into. Fsmash works too, but dsmash is quicker and lowers your hurtbox, also is more consistent about hitting nearby enemies.
Frisbee also has uses but I've had very inconsistent results with it.

For their landing, a charged fsmash after can hits their shield is somewhat likely to poke.

This DEFINITELY kills way better than anything dthrow or throwing them off the ledge does.

Uthrow gives them less momentum than dthrow, and keeps them closer to you vertically, letting you control the space more consistently.

----

As for ledge traps, my most consistent seems to be Can on the ledge, gunmen when they grab it. This essentially prepares the can to be shot when their ledge invincibility runs out, freeing you up to actually react to their options.

It's quick, easy, and just feels right.

---

And potentially a big thing, when you dair someone's shield and they try to grab, if you buffered clay pigeon it will break the grab and set up for a point blank clay pigeon (Since frisbee can be initiated from frame 1), which kill confirms as early as 60% all the way to 140%. Just make damn sure to space it as it can go through skinnier characters with poor spacing.

If they try to smash, you can shield. Trick shot also works though not sure why you'd want to.

If they HOLD shield or try to roll, dsmash seems best. It's very likely to poke shield and catches roll.

(Frisbee is also very likely to poke or catch a roll, so it's somewhat safe too)

 

[DunnoBro]

I ****ING GOT IT

FRISBEE to catch jump away, NOT trick shot. It follows jump away PERFECTLY.

BUT, you actually don't want to shoot it. You just want the frisbee to elongate your next hitbox so it outlasts an airdodge. Though the frisbee often connects, and if they airdodge it you're right beneath them for uair.

And at WORST it sets up for elongated hitbox fair on an opponent with no jump.

So the flowchart is:

Uthrow > Full Hop > Wait till apex (Gauge opponent's option)

No Option/Beatable Attack: Double Jump Uair

Air dodge: Fast fall, Double Jump Uair (NOT rising. Wait til apex so it can cover delayed/panic airdodge too) or Frisbee/Nair. (Uair is easiest but kills worse at this height)

Jump away: Double Jump SOFT TOSS(very important) Frisbee, DON'T shoot(more important). Just use it to trap their landing/recovery better.

Bonus: If you screw up the read and they airdodged, trick shot can kill decently this high up too. Mainly only at higher percents.

I just started utilizing this, there may be counterplay or a fatal flaw to it but it's DEFINITELY working well for me.

I tested, and even if the opponent mashes jump after uthrow, dj uair will STILL connect with all the hits.

The worst part is when people jump away with good recoveries, you get fair and it puts them nice and far offstage but edgeguarding is different than kill confirms. With no jump, reverse shot can should work well for stage spiking though.

Dairing the frisbee might work, but I dunno.

Note: The timing on your double jump uair is EXTREMELY important.

Practice on 100% marth in training mode. If you get anything but all 3 hits and killing at 118% you're doing it wrong.

The quicker uairs are the input for punishing buffered airdodges.

----

I ALSO found what I believe to be the optimal ledge trap

Back to can + frisbee bashing, but an all new distance and mindset.

You want to be a fair distance from the ledge, to the point you'd be fsmashing a ledge roll.

Trick Shot > Clay Pigeon > Charge Fsmash (Just enough to hit the clay pigeon)

The can is launched forward to cover ledge jump and protect you while you charge, frisbee will elongate the hitbox to easily catch hangs and standard get-up (If you see a standard get-up, release fsmash and mash b to shoot them with frisbee, it should only do some shots to keep them in place or fsmash will break it before the strong hits.

And of course, ledge roll is free.

Just have the can prepared in advance, and frisbee around when you think they'll grab the ledge. If they held off for whatever reason, you can even try getting their 2-frame with frisbee elongated dair. (Or fsmash but I think dair is easier to time and you don't need to worry about charge)

You won't always have time to set this up of course. I'm still working on something easy to do for early game ledge grabs.

I think Can + Gunmen and reacting to their option is pretty quick and consistent.

 

[Perris6]

I ****ING GOT IT

FRISBEE to catch jump away, NOT trick shot. It follows jump away PERFECTLY.

BUT, you actually don't want to shoot it. You just want the frisbee to elongate your next hitbox so it outlasts an airdodge. Though the frisbee often connects, and if they airdodge it you're right beneath them for uair.

And at WORST it sets up for elongated hitbox fair on an opponent with no jump.

So the flowchart is:

Uthrow > Full Hop > Wait till apex (Gauge opponent's option)

No Option/Beatable Attack: Double Jump Uair

Air dodge: Fast fall, Double Jump Uair (NOT rising. Wait til apex so it can cover delayed/panic airdodge too) or Frisbee/Nair. (Uair is easiest but kills worse at this height)

Jump away: Double Jump SOFT TOSS(very important) Frisbee, DON'T shoot(more important). Just use it to trap their landing/recovery better.

Bonus: If you screw up the read and they airdodged, trick shot can kill decently this high up too. Mainly only at higher percents.

I just started utilizing this, there may be counterplay or a fatal flaw to it but it's DEFINITELY working well for me.

I tested, and even if the opponent mashes jump after uthrow, dj uair will STILL connect with all the hits.

The worst part is when people jump away with good recoveries, you get fair and it puts them nice and far offstage but edgeguarding is different than kill confirms. With no jump, reverse shot can should work well for stage spiking though.

Dairing the frisbee might work, but I dunno.

Note: The timing on your double jump uair is EXTREMELY important.

Practice on 100% marth in training mode. If you get anything but all 3 hits and killing at 118% you're doing it wrong.

The quicker uairs are the input for punishing buffered airdodges.

----

I ALSO found what I believe to be the optimal ledge trap

Back to can + frisbee bashing, but an all new distance and mindset.

You want to be a fair distance from the ledge, to the point you'd be fsmashing a ledge roll.

Trick Shot > Clay Pigeon > Charge Fsmash (Just enough to hit the clay pigeon)

The can is launched forward to cover ledge jump and protect you while you charge, frisbee will elongate the hitbox to easily catch hangs and standard get-up (If you see a standard get-up, release fsmash and mash b to shoot them with frisbee, it should only do some shots to keep them in place or fsmash will break it before the strong hits.

And of course, ledge roll is free.

Just have the can prepared in advance, and frisbee around when you think they'll grab the ledge. If they held off for whatever reason, you can even try getting their 2-frame with frisbee elongated dair. (Or fsmash but I think dair is easier to time and you don't need to worry about charge)

You won't always have time to set this up of course. I'm still working on something easy to do for early game ledge grabs.

I think Can + Gunmen and reacting to their option is pretty quick and consistent.

Is it with the fast clay pigeon or soft tossed?

 

[Pyro-is-Magic]

Messing around with f-throw followups, and I think on fast fallers @ very low percents duck hunt can f-throw into dash up frisbee, to which could possibly lead into another f-throw dash up frisbee. Dont know how much DI can affect this though.

Even if not gaurneteed it conditions the opponent to airdogde to the ground (easily punishable), sheild (punished by dash grab) or do the best option and jump (which can be caught with a rising clay pigeon). If you managed to catch the jump with the clay pigeon on a fast faller at close range, that easily leads into another clay pigeon which then leads into most likely a fair/uair, but it could also lead into another clay pigeon, which would then lead into a fair/uair.

To make a flowchart of this:

Fox @ 10%ish,

F-Throw-> Frisbee-> Dash Regrab-> F-Throw-> Frisbee-> (Fox jumps)-> rising frisbee-> rising frisbee-> rising frisbee-> Uair

10 -> 90% string

I managed to get something similar to this when playing against a computer.

What will determine if this works or not depends completely on the DI and knockback of F-throw, but if F-throw to frisbee is true on fastfallers then that gives Duck Hunt and insane combo game on fastfallers. Needs more testing.

 

[Perris6]

Messing around with f-throw followups, and I think on fast fallers @ very low percents duck hunt can f-throw into dash up frisbee, to which could possibly lead into another f-throw dash up frisbee. Dont know how much DI can affect this though.

Even if not gaurneteed it conditions the opponent to airdogde to the ground (easily punishable), sheild (punished by dash grab) or do the best option and jump (which can be caught with a rising clay pigeon). If you managed to catch the jump with the clay pigeon on a fast faller at close range, that easily leads into another clay pigeon which then leads into most likely a fair/uair, but it could also lead into another clay pigeon, which would then lead into a fair/uair.

To make a flowchart of this:

Fox @ 10%ish,

F-Throw-> Frisbee-> Dash Regrab-> F-Throw-> Frisbee-> (Fox jumps)-> rising frisbee-> rising frisbee-> rising frisbee-> Uair

10 -> 90% string

I managed to get something similar to this when playing against a computer.

What will determine if this works or not depends completely on the DI and knockback of F-throw, but if F-throw to frisbee is true on fastfallers then that gives Duck Hunt and insane combo game on fastfallers. Needs more testing.

Be careful with fast fallers and heavy weights with this fthrow mixup. Fast fallers and heavy weights can DI down and away and get to the ground easier or DI backwards to get sent at a higher angle.

 

[DunnoBro]

Is it with the fast clay pigeon or soft tossed?

Edited, always soft toss.

Edit: Actually, smash toss might be needed at times for faster air speeds. Not sure, soft seems good 80% of the time though.

Messing around with f-throw followups, and I think on fast fallers @ very low percents duck hunt can f-throw into dash up frisbee, to which could possibly lead into another f-throw dash up frisbee. Dont know how much DI can affect this though.

Even if not gaurneteed it conditions the opponent to airdogde to the ground (easily punishable), sheild (punished by dash grab) or do the best option and jump (which can be caught with a rising clay pigeon). If you managed to catch the jump with the clay pigeon on a fast faller at close range, that easily leads into another clay pigeon which then leads into most likely a fair/uair, but it could also lead into another clay pigeon, which would then lead into a fair/uair.

To make a flowchart of this:

Fox @ 10%ish,

F-Throw-> Frisbee-> Dash Regrab-> F-Throw-> Frisbee-> (Fox jumps)-> rising frisbee-> rising frisbee-> rising frisbee-> Uair

10 -> 90% string

I managed to get something similar to this when playing against a computer.

What will determine if this works or not depends completely on the DI and knockback of F-throw, but if F-throw to frisbee is true on fastfallers then that gives Duck Hunt and insane combo game on fastfallers. Needs more testing.

TBH I think fthrow > frisbee is just an edgeguard set-up, only really good vs chars you can edgeguard but it works.

Essentially you throw the frisbee at them, and detonate pretty quickly. The idea is to pop them out further or snipe their jumps, kind of like a mario fireball to set up for a better edgeguard. Then if they try to go low, you dair/nair.

You can only hit with the shots after fthrow consistently, you'll rarely get the frisbee itself to connect and even then with DI it'll never kill confirm. But, you do hit with the shots consistently around 80-120% on all characters, if the character is susceptible to edgeguards then I think it can be good.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

I was investigating Duck Hunt's AT potential and I think I found an easy groundlock 50/50 off of down throw.
Right out of down throw, try to footstool your target.
If they airdodge to the ground, fast fall a weak neutral air into a follow-up forward air.
If they try to jump away, follow them with your missed footstool jump to land an up air.
If you get the footstool, you've got yourself a groundlock. Go for a fast fall neutral air, landing with the weak hitbox. I believe it is extendable, but I'm not sure yet.
Haven't checked what to do with DI away yet.

 

[Perris6]

I was investigating Duck Hunt's AT potential and I think I found an easy groundlock 50/50 off of down throw.
Right out of down throw, try to footstool your target.
If they airdodge to the ground, fast fall a weak neutral air into a follow-up forward air.
If they try to jump away, follow them with your missed footstool jump to land an up air.
If you get the footstool, you've got yourself a groundlock. Go for a fast fall neutral air, landing with the weak hitbox. I believe it is extendable, but I'm not sure yet.
Haven't checked what to do with DI away yet.

Worth investigating, but I believe DI'ing away and jumping out may prove to be a huge problem

 

[Pyro-is-Magic]

Been working on setups and I found an amazing ledge setup for Duck Hunt. It is incredibly simple and it covers every ledge option. I'm going to call it Perfect Ledge Pressure.


All you need to do is place a can at the tip of the ledge with the can's ping direction heading towards the blast zone and have Duck Hunt sit on the roll in space and wait.


And that's it, that is how simple the setup is. All that's left at that point is to wait for the opponents ledge option and punish. The most important part about this setup is that you stay patient and don't commit to an option, by doing so it creates a hole in the setup which your opponent can escape through.


Here is an list of the proper punishes for this setup-


Normal Getup- Covered by Can


When opponents go for a normal getup they will be immediately pressured into their shield as the can is at their feet and Duck Hunt is covering the roll. It is is a good idea to go for a dash grab in this scenario. Duck Hunt can then go for a throw into can to rack up damage. At kill percents if the dash grab slides Duck Hunt far away enough so from the can, then you can ping the towards the blast zone and get a guaranteed Fthrow to Can combo leading into an early kill.


Around 100-120%ish if you get a grab at the tip of the ledge by covering their normal getup, you can attempt a d-throw up-air string. For some reason the d-throw angle is more vertical when used near the ledge making this kill confirm easier to land. This is not at all guaranteed however.


Roll- Covered by Duck Hunt


At low percents it is a good idea to cover the roll with a pivot grab so that Duck Hunt can get a F-Throw into Can into Fair combo to maximize damage.


In the 30% percent range it is a good idea to cover the roll with an up-tilt instead to go for a up-tilt up-air up-air combo to maximize damage.


Between 40% to 140% go for the pivot grab again for the F-throw can combo to maximize damage. At around 130% depending on rage and how close the can is to the blast zone this will start to kill.


Within the pivot grab window at around 65-75%, dthrow into charged f-smash is a kill setup if they air dodge immediately. F-Smash kills early since it is being used near the ledge. You can condition the air dodge by reserving the d-throw if they don't know the setup since you have probably been using guaranteed f-throw combos throughout the match, and you can further condition the air dodge by using d-throw into Fair strings. (Credit to MVD for the dthrow into F-Smash setup).


Jump from the ledge-Covered by Can


Covering a ledge jump can be a bit tricky if your timing is off with the can, but even if you miss you can pressure with up-airs for good damage or kills.


Ledge Attack- Covered by Duck Hunt


This one is a bit weird as some ledge attacks can swat the can at Duck Hunt. Would need to test the whole cast to see what kind of arcs the can goes when hit by ledge attacks. You should be fine if you preemptively buffer a can ping to stuff their ledge attack though. You can punish ledge attacks with f-smash for free kills, or go for grab or clay pigeon combos to rack up percent.


Ledge Drop- Covered by Can


This one is a bit tricky as most opponents will ledge drop to hit the can away from the ledge. Just like with the ledge attacks Duck Hunt will be safe if he preemptively buffers a ping. If they dip down they are most likely going for an up-air which can be punished by an f-smash on their regrab attempt.


However if they use a fair or Nair to come back on stage then it gets a bit tricky as their aerial can hit both the can and Duck Hunt. Buffer a can ping so that it doesn't get hit into you and what to do afterwards depends on what aerial option your opponent chose. The dream is that you can catch them in the air with an f-smash but usually that is too slow. So the simple solution is to shield their aerial and punish OoS.


If opponents waits on the ledge- Covered by F-Smash


When an opponent tries to evaluate your ledge pressure, if they take to long you can hit them with a rogue f-smash once their invincibility runs out. By going for this rogue f-smash however you break the Perfect Ledge Pressure giving your opponent an outlet to escape, so make sure to ping the can to cover a last second ledge jump to cover multiple options with the f-smash.

Commitment to this option:

By going for this option it means that Duck Hunt cannot send his can out nor himself can edgeguard offstage, so keep that in mind when choosing what kind of edge guard you want to use with Duck Hunt.

Also some disjointed Up-B recoveries like ZSS and Bayonetta can hit the can away from the tip of the ledge making it hard to perform this setup on certain characters.