With the talk of adding Final Smashes to the meta, I thought it would be prudent to do a comparison between Final Smashes and Supers. Having this around could provide reference and ideas for how to approach using FS Meter in the future.
DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT LEGALITY OR INCLUSION. DO NOT TREAT IT AS SUCH. THIS IS FOR REFERENCE ONLY
Supers in other fighting games tend to boil down to 1 of 3 different types: Standard Meter, Desperation Moves, and Vs Style. I'm going to go over each one to the best of my abilities.
Standard Meter
Standard Meter is based on more traditional 2D fighters like Street Fighter and Injustice. You build up meter that you can spend parts of to enhance moves. Building up your bar of meter to it's maximum allows for a traditional 'Big Move' like a Final Smash that consumes all your meter.
-Primarily built up through performing moves or having them land. In modern game design, Standard Meter can come from many different sources, but tends to be fueled primarily in this manner, while also allowing some when getting hit
-Rather than manipulating neutral or changing how one approaches the game, Standard Meter moves are often damage exclusively. Due to how expensive they are, they are almost never thrown out in neutral, instead being reserved for combos
-How often the Super is used is more character dependant. EX Moves (where they spend a part of their meter to enhance a standard Special move) tend to be favored as both the cheap option, as well as to gain other benefits such as positioning or to allow setups. Big Supers often sacrifice both of these for damage instead.
-Super Meter, in games with rounds, often transfers over from Round to Round. If you build a bar of meter in Round 1 and then you lose it, it will transfer over to Round 2.
Desperation Moves
Desperation Moves are seen in a few places, like Tekken 7 and Street Fighter 4, where a character has a separate meter from his Standard Meter bar (if they have one) that is built from taking damage. There is no inbetween like with Standard Meter, you are either able to execute your Super, or you are not.
-Due to it's nature, Desperation moves become available the worse the situation your in, having lost more health than your opponent and are often placed on the backfoot, trying to recover.
-Because you are unable to build toward it yourself, Desperation Moves are never part of the game plan for neutral, instead treated more as an emergency button.
-Unlike Super Meter, Desperation moves do not transfer between rounds. This has lead to a 'use it or lose it' mindset when using them, and many Desperation Moves can be seen used in a last minute gambit to reverse the scenario the losing contender may find himself in. More experienced players elect to save their Desperation Moves and use them like a full Standard Meter Super, as a valuable resource in a combo. This can often close the gap in life, but requires the losing contender to win neutral back on his own merits.
Vs Style
Vs Style supers, like those seen in Marvel vs Capcom and DBFZ, is MUCH easier to come by than either of the other two. The idea is similar to Standard Meter's EX moves; you have a cap to your amount of meter and you build towards it, but taken to a more extreme degree.
-Spend a meter to use a Super. The more meter you are allowed to spend, the stronger the move is. It can be something to enhance neutral (such as a buff state), a tool to continue pressure (like a move that attacks while leaving you free to move), or normal damage. Often does not have a 'maximum meter' super like with Standard Meter, and those that do are rare exceptions, instead there are options where you spend a lot of your meter as opposed to all of it. In most cases, they have a lower level meter moves that get prioritized first.
-While not encouraged, Vs Style is the most likely type of Super to be thrown out in Neutral. A full screen powerful Beam Punish to break through an opponent's wall of projectiles has more value when the resource is much less scarce.
-Meter Management, like with Standard Meter, comes into play a lot. Not due to a lack of meter, but because it's very easy to burn through all of your meter at an easy opportunity and not have it when you need it.
-Hoarding Meter is considered a bad philosophy. Most Vs Style games have long combos that scale heavily, and the damage from supers is still respectable even at max scaling, among other reasons.
-Unlike the above two, Vs System games do not have rounds. There is no carry over from Round 1 to Round 2, there's only Win/Lose and then the rematch.
And now, for comparison, Final Smashes in Ball form.
Final Smash
We all know how a Final Smash operates, but based on the above, it's very alien. Platform your way to the ball, damage it, and unlock a damaging Super Move
-Often encouraged to use in neutral due to it's unblockable nature, or if it's an install super, to immediately use to get those buffs.
-The ability to lose the ball if damage encourages aggressive play. Chasing the ball opens players up by providing an alternative to direct head to head gameplay.
- The range that most FS's cover is vast and outranges their other options by a large amount. As a result, they are also can be combo'd into by a large majority of characters
- Can often take off a stock by itself, from 0-death.
FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES TO KEEP IN MIND
-Life vs Stocks. In Fighting game terms, Supers are most commonly used to add another 10~20% health loss at the end of a combo. In Smash, Damage only matters in terms of stock, one stock being the equivalent of 25~33% life in other fighting games. Vs Style games would be closest with their multi-character roster.
-Stage Choice. Smash stage choice matters. The addition of a few fall through platforms can mean the difference between a combo working, an airdodge avoiding a hit, and a neutral changing dramatically.
-Mobility. Smash games cover more area than all other games, rivaled only by Vs Style in terms of movement.
-The disadvantage state. In all other games, being in the corner is the most disadvantageous state. You can't zone with projectiles, your opponent has all the say in the neutral, and In Smash, this is when you're off stage and are trying to recover. The threat of being gimped and losing a stock improves dramatically.
That's all I got. Thank you for your time.
DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT LEGALITY OR INCLUSION. DO NOT TREAT IT AS SUCH. THIS IS FOR REFERENCE ONLY
Supers in other fighting games tend to boil down to 1 of 3 different types: Standard Meter, Desperation Moves, and Vs Style. I'm going to go over each one to the best of my abilities.
Standard Meter
Standard Meter is based on more traditional 2D fighters like Street Fighter and Injustice. You build up meter that you can spend parts of to enhance moves. Building up your bar of meter to it's maximum allows for a traditional 'Big Move' like a Final Smash that consumes all your meter.
-Primarily built up through performing moves or having them land. In modern game design, Standard Meter can come from many different sources, but tends to be fueled primarily in this manner, while also allowing some when getting hit
-Rather than manipulating neutral or changing how one approaches the game, Standard Meter moves are often damage exclusively. Due to how expensive they are, they are almost never thrown out in neutral, instead being reserved for combos
-How often the Super is used is more character dependant. EX Moves (where they spend a part of their meter to enhance a standard Special move) tend to be favored as both the cheap option, as well as to gain other benefits such as positioning or to allow setups. Big Supers often sacrifice both of these for damage instead.
-Super Meter, in games with rounds, often transfers over from Round to Round. If you build a bar of meter in Round 1 and then you lose it, it will transfer over to Round 2.
Desperation Moves
Desperation Moves are seen in a few places, like Tekken 7 and Street Fighter 4, where a character has a separate meter from his Standard Meter bar (if they have one) that is built from taking damage. There is no inbetween like with Standard Meter, you are either able to execute your Super, or you are not.
-Due to it's nature, Desperation moves become available the worse the situation your in, having lost more health than your opponent and are often placed on the backfoot, trying to recover.
-Because you are unable to build toward it yourself, Desperation Moves are never part of the game plan for neutral, instead treated more as an emergency button.
-Unlike Super Meter, Desperation moves do not transfer between rounds. This has lead to a 'use it or lose it' mindset when using them, and many Desperation Moves can be seen used in a last minute gambit to reverse the scenario the losing contender may find himself in. More experienced players elect to save their Desperation Moves and use them like a full Standard Meter Super, as a valuable resource in a combo. This can often close the gap in life, but requires the losing contender to win neutral back on his own merits.
Vs Style
Vs Style supers, like those seen in Marvel vs Capcom and DBFZ, is MUCH easier to come by than either of the other two. The idea is similar to Standard Meter's EX moves; you have a cap to your amount of meter and you build towards it, but taken to a more extreme degree.
-Spend a meter to use a Super. The more meter you are allowed to spend, the stronger the move is. It can be something to enhance neutral (such as a buff state), a tool to continue pressure (like a move that attacks while leaving you free to move), or normal damage. Often does not have a 'maximum meter' super like with Standard Meter, and those that do are rare exceptions, instead there are options where you spend a lot of your meter as opposed to all of it. In most cases, they have a lower level meter moves that get prioritized first.
-While not encouraged, Vs Style is the most likely type of Super to be thrown out in Neutral. A full screen powerful Beam Punish to break through an opponent's wall of projectiles has more value when the resource is much less scarce.
-Meter Management, like with Standard Meter, comes into play a lot. Not due to a lack of meter, but because it's very easy to burn through all of your meter at an easy opportunity and not have it when you need it.
-Hoarding Meter is considered a bad philosophy. Most Vs Style games have long combos that scale heavily, and the damage from supers is still respectable even at max scaling, among other reasons.
-Unlike the above two, Vs System games do not have rounds. There is no carry over from Round 1 to Round 2, there's only Win/Lose and then the rematch.
And now, for comparison, Final Smashes in Ball form.
Final Smash
We all know how a Final Smash operates, but based on the above, it's very alien. Platform your way to the ball, damage it, and unlock a damaging Super Move
-Often encouraged to use in neutral due to it's unblockable nature, or if it's an install super, to immediately use to get those buffs.
-The ability to lose the ball if damage encourages aggressive play. Chasing the ball opens players up by providing an alternative to direct head to head gameplay.
- The range that most FS's cover is vast and outranges their other options by a large amount. As a result, they are also can be combo'd into by a large majority of characters
- Can often take off a stock by itself, from 0-death.
FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES TO KEEP IN MIND
-Life vs Stocks. In Fighting game terms, Supers are most commonly used to add another 10~20% health loss at the end of a combo. In Smash, Damage only matters in terms of stock, one stock being the equivalent of 25~33% life in other fighting games. Vs Style games would be closest with their multi-character roster.
-Stage Choice. Smash stage choice matters. The addition of a few fall through platforms can mean the difference between a combo working, an airdodge avoiding a hit, and a neutral changing dramatically.
-Mobility. Smash games cover more area than all other games, rivaled only by Vs Style in terms of movement.
-The disadvantage state. In all other games, being in the corner is the most disadvantageous state. You can't zone with projectiles, your opponent has all the say in the neutral, and In Smash, this is when you're off stage and are trying to recover. The threat of being gimped and losing a stock improves dramatically.
That's all I got. Thank you for your time.
