The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

[genissagefromtalesof]

Hello it is me genis sage from tales of symphonia

Im here to say lloyd will be in super smash brothers Ultimate!!!!

Once lloyd is in its pancake time ,,,,

 

[NessAtc.]

I think Lloyd will make it in but if he is FP5 I don’t see it being at TGA, even if Arise is going to be there. Lloyd is just not well known enough in the West to make an appearance at a western event and I don’t see why they would market Arise by including a character that’s not even in that game for Smash. Joker’s case was different because again, Persona 5 won an award at the event so people who watched the event knew what it was and the game was still relevant enough to be on people’s minds. Basically, if the next character is at the VGA, I don’t see Lloyd making it in until later and if he is, it makes more sense to have it in a direct of some kind.

Alphen mii costume to segue way into Lloyd, problem solved

It doesn't *really* matter anyway, when Namco would probably end up footing most of the world premiere costs anyway

 

[Desert Croc]

I don't understand why the character HAS to be a huge one. It seems more like TGA is just the best time for them to announce the next character.

Because why announce a character at a big event watched mostly by westerners that is about all video games and not just Smash when said character is mostly known to Japan and/or the Smash bubble? I doubt anyone who doesn’t play JRPGS would know who Lloyd is. Meanwhile someone like, say Dragonborn, who every gamer knows, or Leon, who is relevant right now thanks to the success of the RE2 remake and Iceborne DLC would create bigger waves than someone like Lloyd, Geno or KOS-MOS would.

I would like to be proven wrong, but with the way things are, I don’t see Lloyd joining the fight until later.

Alphen mii costume to segue way into Lloyd, problem solved

It doesn't *really* matter anyway, when Namco would probably end up footing most of the world premiere costs anyway

I hope you’re right, but I can’t really see a way they can transition from a Lloyd Smash trailer to a trailer for Arise

 

[NessAtc.]

I hope you’re right, but I can’t really see a way they can transition from a Lloyd Smash trailer to a trailer for Arise

Other way around bucko, transition from Arise to Smash

That's the more likely and natural transition

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Because why announce a character at a big event watched mostly by westerners that is about all video games and not just Smash when said character is mostly known to Japan and/or the Smash bubble? I doubt anyone who doesn’t play JRPGS would know who Lloyd is. Meanwhile someone like, say Dragonborn, who every gamer knows, or Leon, who is relevant right now thanks to the success of the RE2 remake and Iceborne DLC would create bigger waves than someone like Lloyd, Geno or KOS-MOS would.

Because it's smash bros, any character announcement would generate hype regardless of who it actually is. Joker was announced at the last one despite persona being much bigger in Japan.

 

[Desert Croc]

Because it's smash bros, any character announcement would generate hype regardless of who it actually is. Joker was announced at the last one despite persona being much bigger in Japan.

Persona 5 got nominated for multiple awards the year before and one won, and it was still a recent game that people were talking about, not to mention Joker was a completey unexpected surprise. If they chose to reveal Lloyd at TGA where not everyone is a Smash fan nor knows who a character that hasn’t appeared in a full fledge game in 5 years outside of obscure crossovers is, do you really think people would care as much compared to if he were revealed in a general direct aimed at Nintendo Fans? Sure, character reveals are exciting but depending on when they are revealed, they can generate more hype and keep people talking about them, which is what Nintendo wants. Do you think if they revealed Terry at TGA people would be hyped? I can tell you now that quite a number of people were underwhelmed by Terry even when he was revealed in a general direct so could you imagine how they’d react to having to sit through an entire award ceremony only to be let down by a character they don’t even know? Don’t forget that there are people who don’t want Lloyd in the Fighter’s Pass because they don’t want another JRPG swordsman so I can imagine that there would be mixed opinions if he is revealed at TGA.

Look, I’m not trying to convince you that he won’t be at TGA, I’m just giving my personal reasons as to why I think he won’t. I know you won’t agree and I wish I could be as enthusiastic as you, but just don’t get your hopes too high only for them to be crushed. Trust me, it’s not a good feeling.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Persona 5 got nominated for multiple awards the year before and one won, and it was still a recent game that people were talking about, not to mention Joker was a completey unexpected surprise. If they chose to reveal Lloyd at TGA where not everyone is a Smash fan nor knows who a character that hasn’t appeared in a full fledge game in 5 years outside of obscure crossovers is, do you really think people would care as much compared to if he were revealed in a general direct aimed at Nintendo Fans? Sure, character reveals are exciting but depending on when they are revealed, they can generate more hype and keep people talking about them, which is what Nintendo wants. Do you think if they revealed Terry at TGA people would be hyped? I can tell you now that quite a number of people were underwhelmed by Terry even when he was revealed in a general direct so could you imagine how they’d react to having to sit through an entire award ceremony only to be let down by a character they don’t even know? Don’t forget that there are people who don’t want Lloyd in the Fighter’s Pass because they don’t want another JRPG swordsman so I can imagine that there would be mixed opinions if he is revealed at TGA.

Look, I’m not trying to convince you that he won’t be at TGA, I’m just giving my personal reasons as to why I think he won’t. I know you won’t agree and I wish I could be as enthusiastic as you, but just don’t get your hopes too high only for them to be crushed. Trust me, it’s not a good feeling.

There were people underwhelmed by Terry, and people excited for Terry, him being revealed in a nintendo direct meant nothing. My point is that they'd be revealing a character there because it's the next opportunity to do so. And TGA isn't about smash, if people wait that long just for one possible announcement to be disappointed, that's not on Nintendo. I'm just saying that any character can show up there regardless of popularity.

 

[Desert Croc]

There were people underwhelmed by Terry, and people excited for Terry, him being revealed in a nintendo direct meant nothing. My point is that they'd be revealing a character there because it's the next opportunity to do so. And TGA isn't about smash, if people wait that long just for one possible announcement to be disappointed, that's not on Nintendo. I'm just saying that any character can show up there regardless of popularity.

Fair enough. I just personally don’t see him happening as FP5 and would love to be proven wrong. Guess I’ll get out of your hair now.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Fair enough. I just personally don’t see him happening as FP5 and would love to be proven wrong. Guess I’ll get out of your hair now.

I apologize if I sounded angry or annoyed by my posts, I just wanted to counter your points with some of my own. In the end, everyone here is hoping that Lloyd will be able to get in at some point : )

 

[NessAtc.]

At the end of the day the dream will never die

 

[Desert Croc]

I apologize if I sounded angry or annoyed by my posts, I just wanted to counter your points with some of my own. In the end, everyone here is hoping that Lloyd will be able to get in at some point : )

You have nothing to apologise for. I’m glad you gave your arguements in a civil manner. If there’s one thing I hate about the internet, it’s people who will throw blatant insults at another just because their views and opinions don’t align with their own.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So my options for Tales music.

Spoiler

1. Full Force(Tales of Symphonia)

2. Like a Glint(Tales of Symphonia)

3. Fighting of The Spirit(Tales of Symphonia)

4. Fatalize(Tales of Symphonia)

5. End of a Thought(Tales of Symphonia)

6. Starry Heavens - Instrumental(Tales of Symphonia)

7. Take Up The Cross(Tales of Phantasia)

8. Fighting of The Spirit(Tales of Phantasia)

9. Bare It's Fangs(Tales of Destiny Remake)

10. Coup De Grace(Tales of Destiny 2)

11. Battle Organization(Tales of Rebirth)

12. Awkward Justice(Tales of The Abyss)

13. Fury Sparks(Tales of Vesperia)

14. Sword-Drawing Grind!(Tales of Graces)

15. Believe in Oneself(Tales of Xillia)

16. Shout Your Soul(Tales of Berseria)

 

[UberPyro64]

So if Color Theory was true, would Lloy'd color be brown? Since red was taken by Joker?

 

[andree123]

So if Color Theory was true, would Lloy'd color be brown? Since red was taken by Joker?

Lloyd has to be green.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Considering the three mii costumes represented by Namco, only Tales has no content in Ultimate what so ever. Heihachi and Gil appear in Pac-Man's Taunt with Lloyd absent.

Wait, what?! Gil is a part of Pac-Man's taunt too?! Wow! I never paid attention. That raises a even larger ??? on Lloyd's chances.

 

[UberPyro64]

Lloyd has to be green.

But Piranha Plant is green.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

i think lloyd could have a different shade of red than joker possibly: other characters on the ssbu website use various shades of red outside of the deep red that joker uses

 

[NessAtc.]

could also be white or a dark blue, Terry has a light blue

 

[Nightguything]

Never really looked into color theory as it seemed a little nonsensical to me, but as long as Scott’s under NDA and the “Big tales of” hasn’t been revealed I’d say all the chips are in his favor

 

[Icedragonadam]

Colours don't mean anything as Roy's colour is green. And if they did, the orange could easily reference Namco's logo which is mainly orange. And who's to say they wouldn't use green as if you exclude Piranha Plant(who's a stand alone DLC), the pass would look more colorful instead of orange.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

With all the news of a new Bamco rep, I hope your boy makes it in, either next or in a future pass.

 

[NessAtc.]

I wouldn't mind this song getting in tbh

 

[BlackInk]

With all the news of a new Bamco rep, I hope your boy makes it in, either next or in a future pass.

What news?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

What news?

It's a lot to summarize, check the geno thread sometime to get the idea.

 

[slambros]

I have a gut feeling that the 5th DLC character is going to be Lloyd. I could be wrong, but that's just what I feel in my gut.

 

[BlackInk]

I have a gut feeling that the 5th DLC character is going to be Lloyd. I could be wrong, but that's just what I feel in my gut.

It’s hard because he and Kosmos have a massive chance, but the latter has the advantage of the Rex costume.

 

[NessAtc.]

It’s hard because he and Kosmos have a massive chance, but the latter has the advantage of the Rex costume.

I wouldn't really call that an advantage? Especially since Lloyd had a costume last game, and is now currently the only Namco character that was in 4 to NOT be in Ultimate

 

[BlackInk]

I wouldn't really call that an advantage? Especially since Lloyd had a costume last game, and is now currently the only Namco character that was in 4 to NOT be in Ultimate

Yeah, but Kosmos has a lot more recent events that make her closer to Nintendo than Lloyd. Sakurai didn’t really expect to add in new fighters after the pass and he did talk about Rex’s exclusion as a tragedy, when he put Rex’s costume in said pass. Why would Sakurai ever do that if a xenoblade 2 character wasn’t in the pass?

 

[NessAtc.]

Yeah, but Kosmos has a lot more recent events that make her closer to Nintendo than Lloyd. Sakurai didn’t really expect to add in new fighters after the pass and he did talk about Rex’s exclusion as a tragedy, when he put Rex’s costume in said pass. Why would Sakurai ever do that if a xenoblade 2 character wasn’t in the pass?

I'm afraid I don't see your logic here. Regardless, Lloyd debuted on the Gamecube. Xenosaga isn't on a Nintendo platform aside from the DS ports. So essentially, Lloyd is closer to Nintendo than KOS-MOS is.

 

[Desert Croc]

Yeah, but Kosmos has a lot more recent events that make her closer to Nintendo than Lloyd. Sakurai didn’t really expect to add in new fighters after the pass and he did talk about Rex’s exclusion as a tragedy, when he put Rex’s costume in said pass. Why would Sakurai ever do that if a xenoblade 2 character wasn’t in the pass?

Sakurai stated himself that Rex was a highly requested character but due to him being to new, he couldn’t be a playable fighter so a costume was made as compensation. He is also a fan of XC2, so it makes sense. I don’t think Rex’s costume increases KOS-MOS’s chances in the slightest.

Also I agree with Ness that Lloyd has a better history with Nintendo than KOS-MOS. Tales of Symphonia was a GameCube exclusive for a year and even then, it’s still considered the definite version of the game and DotNW was a wii exclusive for even longer. Xenosaga has primarily been a PlayStation focused series with only the first two games receiving a DS port. Any other appearances she has had on Nintendo consoles has been in niche crossover games or guest star appearances.

 

[BlackInk]

I'm afraid I don't see your logic here. Regardless, Lloyd debuted on the Gamecube. Xenosaga isn't on a Nintendo platform. So essentially, Lloyd is closer to Nintendo than KOS-MOS is.

Sakurai stated himself that Rex was a highly requested character but due to him being to new, he couldn’t be a playable fighter so a costume was made as compensation. He is also a fan of XC2, so it makes sense. I don’t think Rex’s costume increases KOS-MOS’s chances in the slightest.

Also I agree with Ness that Lloyd has a better history with Nintendo than KOS-MOS. Tales of Symphonia was a GameCube exclusive for a year and even then, it’s still considered the definite version of the game and DotNW was a wii exclusive for even longer. Xenosaga has primarily been a PlayStation focused series with only the first two games receiving a DS port. Any other appearances she has had on Nintendo consoles has been in niche crossover games or guest star appearances.

Nintendo history doesn’t really matter for smash; remember smash 4 Cloud? The massive difference is that Kosmos is easily accessible and is Namco’s cameo character. Lloyd may be a good option, but the connections between Namco and Monosoft is ridiculously strong when it comes to Kosmos. Namco even refuses to make another Xenogears without Monosoft.

 

[NessAtc.]

Nintendo history doesn’t really matter for smash; remember smash 4 Cloud? The massive difference is that Kosmos is easily accessible and is Namco’s cameo character. Lloyd may be a good option, but the connections between Namco and Monosoft is ridiculously strong when it comes to Kosmos. Namco even refuses to make another Xenogears without Monosoft.

Firstly, Xenogears is Square, not Namco. Second, the plug was pulled on Xenosaga after Episode 2 sold like garbage, and at this point even if Namco still had monolith they still wouldn't do a xenosaga just by virtue of how risky it is. Thirdly, Tales has a legacy spanning nearly 25 years, and the core components of Wolf Team have spread out to all these different companies.
That's not to mention that most of the crossovers KOS-MOS appears in are actually made by Monolith Soft, including Namco x Capcom, Project X Zone and it's sequel, and now Xenoblade 2. Namco likely doesn't care much about KOS-MOS, Monolith's the one that cares.

It's fine to want kos-mos more, but this ain't the way to do it by a longshot

 

[Desert Croc]

Nintendo history doesn’t really matter for smash; remember smash 4 Cloud? The massive difference is that Kosmos is easily accessible and is Namco’s cameo character. Lloyd may be a good option, but the connections between Namco and Monosoft is ridiculously strong when it comes to Kosmos. Namco even refuses to make another Xenogears without Monosoft.

This isn’t about the chances of the characters. You stated in your previous post that KOS-MOS is closer to Nintendo than Lloyd, and I gave my reasons as to why I disagree with that claim as well as your Rex costume theory.

But in all honesty, if you believe that KOS-MOS is more likely due to the ties Bamco and Nintendo have with Monolith then that’s fine. I’m just letting you know that me and several others on this thread believe Lloyd is the most likely Bamco rep for our own reasons, including the missing Mii costume, tweets hinting on upcoming projects and trademarks that indicate something related to the Tales series is coming. Feel free to disagree, but if there’s one thing I’ve learnt, it’s to never go 100% on a character’s chances, as no one can predict who Sakurai will put in the game. Remember when everyone thought Steve was the inevitable Microsoft rep?

 

[BlackInk]

Firstly, Xenogears is Square, not Namco. Second, the plug was pulled on Xenosaga after Episode 2 sold like garbage, and at this point even if Namco still had monolith they still wouldn't do a xenosaga just by virtue of how risky it is. Thirdly, Tales has a legacy spanning nearly 25 years, and the core components of Wolf Team have spread out to all these different companies.
That's not to mention that most of the crossovers KOS-MOS appears in are actually made by Monolith Soft, including Namco x Capcom, Project X Zone and it's sequel, and now Xenoblade 2. Namco likely doesn't care much about KOS-MOS, Monolith's the one that cares.

Xenosaga... Xenoblade... Xenogear... XenoLOL... XenoBlah

If Namco doesn’t really do Kosmos cameos without Monolith’s involvement, doesn’t it mean they care about their permission to use the character? Also, monoloft soft was bought by Nintendo since 2007 and Kosmos’s last game was in 2006. You may use big words but you need to think about implications and actual valid research. The only reason why I’m backing Kosmos is because she technically is a rep for the entire Xeno series and the 3rd party fighter’s pass features a 1st party costume of a xeno series character. That costume isn’t meaningless garbage that randomly appeals to Xeno fans, it has to be something more. Kosmos is also a character that’s tied to a personal and deep connection for two companies that used to work with each other. The companies don’t have an awkward relationship of Rare and Nintendo, they have something more than that. Do you think they’ll pass off using Kosmos if they work with Sakurai and have the fighters pass be attached to a character costume from a company they have close ties with? The company that used to be a part of them?

I get Loyld’s popularity, but I think Namco doesn’t want to miss out with Monolith for the biggest smash game.

 

[GameWatching]

All DLC so far had absolutely nothing to do with content already in the game.
By this logic, KOS-MOS has even lesser chances of being the one.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think out of the Xeno characters, Elma has the best chance due to:

1. There being no Xenoblade X music in Ultimate whatsoever.

2. Elma's voice actress announcing about a year ago she was voice acting for something, which we still don't know yet due to NDA.

3. There was a quote in Xenoblade 2 where someone said it was everyones dream to see Shulk and Elma in one place. Rex and Pyra were in that scene and they specifically just said Shulk and Elma alone.

I know she is a Spirit, but I think her along with Geno have the best chances to get promoted out of the Spirits.

All DLC so far had absolutely nothing to do with content already in the game.
By this logic, KOS-MOS has even lesser chances of being the one.

Then I guess Geno is out.

 

[BlackInk]

All DLC so far had absolutely nothing to do with content already in the game.
By this logic, KOS-MOS has even lesser chances of being the one.

Not in the slightest. There isn’t a single Kosmos or Xenosaga spirit in Ultimate.

 

[NessAtc.]

Not in the slightest. There isn’t a single Kosmos or Xenosaga spirit in Ultimate.

There isn't a single Lloyd or Tales spirit in Ultimate either, so I don't see how this helps your point.

Anyway, the "Xeno series" isn't actually a thing. It's all separate from each other, the most that happens is verrry loose connections

 

[BlackInk]

There isn't a single Lloyd or Tales spirit in Ultimate either, so I don't see how this helps your point.

Anyway, the "Xeno series" isn't actually a thing. It's all separate from each other, the most that happens is verrry loose connections

Then why is there the core thing of ultimate power in xenoblade 2?

 

[NessAtc.]

if you're talking about zohar, Monolith always loosely references their past games. They just can't do anything with it. They don't even call it the Zohar.

Anyway we're wildly off topic, here's a song