The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

[andree123]

A new Super #SmashBrosUltimate fighter will be revealed tonight at #TheGameAwards! Tune in to the show, beginning at 4pm PT, to be ready for the reveal! pic.twitter.com/Lkw9fRrizl

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) December 10, 2020

UM

This fighter reveal is 5 days away from the tales of anniversary stream.

 

[Gitaroo]

5 days away from anniversary stream
singer of symphonia OP and director of symphonia is gonna be there
possible tie-in symphonia thing

(jk i don't actually expect much a Tales rep doesn't really feel TGA-ish to me, as little as that means considering i have nothing to go off of. Few expectations for the anniversary stream as well. It's conditioning if I don't expect much my hopes can't be dashed haha)

Whoever it is I hope they are cool, Lloyd's currently my only "Want" I can think of so as long as they are cool I'll be like, neat. Treading in with optimism.

 

[Gitaroo]

double post my bad

 

[IWantMyBurd]

Heard there's going to be a new fighter revealed at tonight's Game Awards. Fingers crossed if that's true

 

[Nightguything]

Yea honestly, the tales of anniversary streams have historically not amounted to much, so I’ll hold my excitement.

That said, it’s super hard not to be excited when we’re on the cusp of a new reveal.

 

[MattX20]

Good luck to you guys

 

[Shergiock]

Guys, all of the luck. Tomorrow we can have Lloyd or not... In the presentation of the DLC we can have the Mii Costume... Or not...

Good luck. We need it.

 

[Nightguything]

I was not expecting Sephiroth but holy hell that was hype!

 

[Icedragonadam]

Well Lloyd is safe again, but RIP Geno.

 

[Gitaroo]

Wasn't expecting if there was a 2nd FF Rep it'd be another FF7 rep. Pretty dang cool. I hope him being another JRPG Swordsman doesn't hurt another certain JRPG Swordsman's chances for the rest of the pass.

 

[widu0746]

not mad that it ended up being sephiroth but I am sad our twin swordsman continues to elude us

 

[Nightguything]

On one hand, swordsmen are on the table still and Lloyd is seemingly still in the running.

On the other hand, Smash remains as unpredictable as ever.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Wasn't expecting if there was a 2nd FF Rep it'd be another FF7 rep. Pretty dang cool. I hope him being another JRPG Swordsman doesn't hurt another certain JRPG Swordsman's chances for the rest of the pass.

you might want to brace yourself for impact if Ryu hayabusa is In this

 

[Deleted member]

Hey is it possible to have Cress as an alternate costume for Lloyd?

 

[Gitaroo]

Hey is it possible to have Cress as an alternate costume for Lloyd?

It'd be something of a disservice to Cress as while they share some similar Tales Swordsman artes his mannerisms and fighting style are pretty different from Lloyd's Dual Wielding and both have unique moves of their own.

 

[Deleted member]

It'd be something of a disservice to Cress as while they share some similar Tales Swordsman artes his mannerisms and fighting style are pretty different from Lloyd's Dual Wielding and both have unique moves of their own.

Call me out on this but what about Cress as an Echo Fighter for Lloyd (or vice versa) while for Cress he'd go with the Hero route for alternate characters?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Call me out on this but what about Cress as an Echo Fighter for Lloyd (or vice versa) while for Cress he'd go with the Hero route for alternate characters?

That wouldn't work.

All the DQ Heroes that were chosen have similar builds and weapons.

Cress and Lloyd have different weapons.

 

[Gitaroo]

Call me out on this but what about Cress as an Echo Fighter for Lloyd (or vice versa) while for Cress he'd go with the Hero route for alternate characters?

As for your latter idea, that I personally don't see. From what I gather based on other characters with alternate chars for costumes they are either the 'same' character or share similar mannerisms/personalities (ie in smash olimar and alph don't talk and they don't emote, and the heroes are silent protags who also don't talk/emote similarly in smash as well as having determinate movesets.) I don't think Tales protags work for that, even ones with similar weapons. Take the three single-sword characters above, for example, you can probably tell that they fight and act very different even though all three indeed share some of their moveset.
And stahn just isn't stahn if he isnt screaming like a hot-blooded loon

 

[Deleted member]

As for your latter idea, that I personally don't see. From what I gather based on other characters with alternate chars for costumes they are either the 'same' character or share similar mannerisms/personalities (ie in smash olimar and alph don't talk and they don't emote, and the heroes are silent protags who also don't talk/emote similarly in smash as well as having determinate movesets.) I don't think Tales protags work for that, even ones with similar weapons. Take the three single-sword characters above, for example, you can probably tell that they fight and act very different even though all three indeed share some of their moveset.
And stahn just isn't stahn if he isnt screaming like a hot-blooded loon

You know what because Sephiroth is in Smash, how about add Lloyd, Cress, and Yuri?

 

[Gitaroo]

You know what because Sephiroth is in Smash, how about add Lloyd, Cress, and Yuri?

As the last three slots of FP2? great idea

Bold choices ninty, but now maybe the Tales4smash fandom can be satisfied and never argue about anything ever again.

(jk)

 

[Deleted member]

As the last three slots of FP2? great idea

Bold choices ninty, but now maybe the Tales4smash fandom can be satisfied and never argue about anything ever again.

(jk)

I know you're kidding but you know maybe in the near-future for the next Smash game. Also if I came off as trollish, then I'm sorry.

 

[Gitaroo]

I know you're kidding but you know maybe in the near-future for the next Smash game. If I came off as trollish, then I'm sorry.

Nah nah, you're fine. I was just goofing around.
Lets see if the franchise can manage squeezing in even one character before we get ahead of ourselves, haha. Something something adage about counting chickens before they hatch.

 

[UberPyro64]

I have a feeling Lloyd's Mii Costume will return with Sephiroth. Considering we got Heihachi with Min Min and Gil with Steve. Be prepared for the worst guys. Just in case.

 

[MattX20]

I have a feeling Lloyd's Mii Costume will return with Sephiroth. Considering we got Heihachi with Min Min and Gil with Steve. Be prepared for the worst guys. Just in case.

That's not how it works. Square content only shows up with Square characters. Lloyd is still safe for the moment. As a Geno fan who wants to see another Brawl era character get his chance to shine, don't give up just yet.

 

[UberPyro64]

That's not how it works. Square content only shows up with Square characters. Lloyd is still safe for the moment. As a Geno fan who wants to see another Brawl era character get his chance to shine, don't give up just yet.

True, I'm just thinking how Heihachi came with Min Min and Gil came with Steve. And like with how Heihachi who fit Min Min (both being fighting game characters), Lloyd would fit with Sephiroth (both being JRPG characters).

 

[Nazyrus]

That's not how it works. Square content only shows up with Square characters. Lloyd is still safe for the moment. As a Geno fan who wants to see another Brawl era character get his chance to shine, don't give up just yet.

This. Unless for some reason the miis are mixed this time, we are gonna have to wait longer AGAIN for Lloyd's fate… this wait is absolute torture lol

 

[MattX20]

This. Unless for some reason the miis are mixed this time, we are gonna have to wait longer AGAIN for Lloyd's fate… this wait is absolute torture lol

As a Geno fan, I know EXACTLY what that is like. Geno and Lloyd have a lot in common, and I would be terrible to not help a fellow Brawl request that has been wanted for so many years. Lloyd's at least the main protagonist of one of the most popular games in a long running JRPG franchise that is arguably top 3 in Japan.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'm at the very least confident Lloyd is going to get something before the pass ends. Mii waves that have been tied to Square Enix usually stick to costumes based on Square stuff so I have a feeling we'd need to wait a while longer to see Lloyd's fate. Lets keep the faith fellas

 

[Gitaroo]

Let's have courage.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

Let's have courage.

Okay, but that game did the original cast dirty

 

[Fatmanonice]

Might sound a bit pre-emptive but congrats on surviving another Mii costume round. Other people have said it but Square is super insistent on Square content only coming with Square content. They were like this with Hero and Cloud. To be honest, based on Sakurai's own words from 2016, it honestly sounds like the only reason the Geno Mii costume happened with Cloud was because he was so damn insistent on the Geno fanbase getting something in Smash 4.

Anyways, I did a write up the other day on Sephiroth's probable Mii costume spread by typing if you all are interested:

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

Alright gang, here's a Mii costume analysis. No opinions, just straight facts. Average costumes per pack: 5 Packs with hats: 3/7 Packs with Brawlers: 6/7 Packs with Swordsmen: 6/7 Packs with Gunners: 4/7 Packs with at least two costumes from the same franchise: 7/7 (This one is...

smashboards.com

Here are the things that specifically play in Lloyd's favor:

-As everyone has said, Square comes with Square. Might be a shock to you all but, um, Lloyd isn't a Square character.

-The Square costume waves have been the smallest for both games. In Smash 4, it was a hat and a costume and Hero's was 3 costumes and a hat. With the Chocobo hat very obviously coming back, that leaves only 3-4 spots because the average per wave with Ultimate had been 5.

-As my analysis showed, new Mii costumes usually reflect the "archetype" of the actual fighter and the fighter's franchise too. This means, on a basic level, half of Sephiroth's Mii costumes will likely be swordfighters and from Final Fantasy. This said, on basic level, Sephiroth's costume spread will likely be:

-Chocobo, swordfighter (Final Fantasy), swordfighter (Final Fantasy), ??? (Square Enix), ??? (Square Enix)

-Chocobo, swordfighter (Final Fantasy), swordfighter (Square Enix), ??? (Final Fantasy), ??? (Square Enix)

This all said, Lloyd's pretty safe with this next wave unless Murphy's Law kicks in with full force. But to further emphasize how many bad luck needles Lloyd would have to thread to appear in this next wave:

-Smash 4 DLC costumes only appear together if they're from the same franchise and/or came together in Smash 4. Lucky for you all, Lloyd was the only third party character of his wave in Smash 4.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cwRlyV-1Y1c

-"Old" costumes always make up a smaller percentage than new costumes/hats.

Joker: 2 of 6
Hero: 0 of 4
Banjo: 2 of 5
Terry: 2 of 5
Byleth: 2 of 5
Min Min: 1 of 5
Steve: 1 of 6

This means that Sephiroth's hypothetical "old pair" would have to be Chocobo and Lloyd... Yeah... Don't sweat it...

 

[Gitaroo]

Thank you for the numbers and reassurance. However unlikely it is, until we're out of the water the name of the game is:

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

If Geno gets merc'd for good on thursday, I'll be rooting for you guys 2 overcome the hurdle and get ur boy in smash

 

[Ypsen]

Well, I was very pessimistic for Lloyd since the announce of Tales of Arise and the currently dead actuality between Tales and Nintendo, then Sakurai acknowledged the "too many swords" arguments... and then Sakurai took the risk to add another one (while choosing the most popular of all swordwielders).
I don't know if Lloyd would be disconfirmed the 17th, but in my book, his chances have declined... again.

The only thing where I'm confused about, is that what gain Nintendo have to reveal Sephiroth ? There's no plan for FFVII or any Square cross-over game on Switch at the moment. I can see only two explanations :

• they wanted to hit hard during the holidays seasons with a very very popular character to boost the sells of the Fighter Pass.
• Sephiroth is the fan service character of the pass, like Banjo was to the first pass.

Or maybe there is plans for a game featuring Sephiroth on a upcoming and yet bo be announced game on Switch, but it would be weird it hadn't be revealed at the Game Awards.

Anyways, there's no such thing as "zero chances". For me Lloyd is at it lowest chance, but we never know... something related to Lloyd or Tales of might be in work for the Switch and we don't know about it yet. It's the only thing that allows me to keep hopes alive.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

Well, I was very pessimistic for Lloyd since the announce of Tales of Arise and the currently dead actuality between Tales and Nintendo, then Sakurai acknowledged the "too many swords" arguments... and then Sakurai took the risk to add another one (while choosing the most popular of all swordwielders).
I don't know if Lloyd would be disconfirmed the 17th, but in my book, his chances have declined... again.

The only thing where I'm confused about, is that what gain Nintendo have to reveal Sephiroth ? There's no plan for FFVII or any Square cross-over game on Switch at the moment. I can see only two explanations :

• they wanted to hit hard during the holidays seasons with a very very popular character to boost the sells of the Fighter Pass.
• Sephiroth is the fan service character of the pass, like Banjo was to the first pass.

Or maybe there is plans for a game featuring Sephiroth on a upcoming and yet bo be announced game on Switch, but it would be weird it hadn't be revealed at the Game Awards.

Anyways, there's no such thing as "zero chances". For me Lloyd is at it lowest chance, but we never know... something related to Lloyd or Tales of might be in work for the Switch and we don't know about it yet. It's the only thing that allows me to keep hopes alive.

Counterpoint: Terry. If I'm not mistaken, there wasn't much call for him from fans before he was revealed, and no big games coming up for him. I think the only thing Terry had that Lloyd doesn't have currently is a long running legacy in his franchise.

 

[Nazyrus]

I think the only thing Terry had that Lloyd doesn't have currently is a long running legacy in his franchise.

This is a weird thing to say considering Tales is officially one of the top 3 rpg franchises in japan (DQ, FF, Tales)… but ok

 

[Nightguything]

Sephiroth’s revealed told me that smash is as unpredictable as ever. As long as I don’t see the mii costume of Lloyd return I’ll hold out hope but it’s so hard to try to even grasp what’s coming next.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

This is a weird thing to say considering Tales is officially one of the top 3 rpg franchises in japan (DQ, FF, Tales)… but ok

Tales of has a long running legacy, but what I meant was Lloyd has been in a smaller percentage of them than Terry has in his own games. Think about it - the Tales games mostly have a new cast with every entry, but fighting games like Fatal Fury and King of Fighters reuse their characters with far more frequently.

 

[Nazyrus]

Tales of has a long running legacy, but what I meant was Lloyd has been in a smaller percentage of them than Terry has in his own games. Think about it - the Tales games mostly have a new cast with every entry, but fighting games like Fatal Fury and King of Fighters reuse their characters with far more frequently.

I mean sure Lloyd doesn't have that, but not all characters inclusions are chosen by amount of presence in their series to begin with, so I dunno why this should even matter since it's very case specific. Terry was chosen because it's an obvious face to an entire series, but that doesn't apply to other series. FF already proving that, and Lloyd would be be chosen for his own title merits, just like Cloud.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

I mean sure Lloyd doesn't have that, but not all characters inclusions are chosen by amount of presence in their series to begin with, so I dunno why this should even matter since it's very case specific. Terry was chosen because it's an obvious face to an entire series, but that doesn't apply to other series. FF already proving that, and Lloyd would be be chosen for his own title merits, just like Cloud.

Indeed. My original point was that Lloyd, Symphonia, and the Tales series in general don't need some big upcoming event or new entry to have a chance, and used Terry as an example to demonstrate my point. I wasn't saying Lloyd isn't likely, I was only pointing out the most significant edge Terry had that Lloyd lacks, which I agree isn't a make-or-break thing.