The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - LLOYD SURVIVES THE SLAUGHTER!

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So this is indeed speculations... not so far-fetched, sure, but still speculations anyways. Who knows the many reasons wich could have cause this glitch. Maybe it's true, but I don't want to rely my hopes on that.

Miis have really plain skeletons, so I would think it could be anyone, even a character who doesn't wield a sword but would have similar stances or movements.
The size of the skeleton is important. Lloyd would be about the same height and proportions, just with a smaller head. And the sword is actually just as important as the skeleton to the model, so I would think it would have to be a sword user, otherwise they would have used Brawler or Gunner. We're basically looking for a sword user that stands at about the same height and has similar proportions as the miis. That's pretty definitively Lloyd. You're right that it's speculation, but imo it's still pretty damn convincing after what happened with Duck Hunt and Banjo.
 

Ypsen

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Does Tales of Arise really hinder Lloyd’s chances. I mean, the game he is from was most known for being on the GameCube and that should be more than enough for him to get in. He has a better relationship with Nintendo than Joker honestly.
We know for a fact that DLC characters are not just for charity. The price only of the DLC doesn't suffice to ensure the cost and the time of the development. Sakurai explained it in his latest book. DLC are risky and kinda gambles. So it's logical to assume the reason why the DLC which are this time chosen by Nintendo, coincide with other release on Nintendo Switch (although, until now, nothing related to Banjo apart from the fighter pass has been announced).

Besides, in the case of Third Party, negociations are way more difficult as we already know, which make it more than a reason to make sure that Nintendo will be ending winner in the end.

The plant has been chosen specifically because Sakurai think that she is a character that everybody knows and would be perfect to advertise the preorder. he explained it in a interview.

P5 Scramble on Nintendo Switch followed the announce of Joker.

Nintendo and Square advertise a while ago DQX1S for Switch and it's release date is perfectly scheduled with the Fighter Pass.

Nothing on Banjo yet, but it safe to assume with the last trends these last years that B&K will got a revival of some sort like other big icons such as Crash and Spyro.


And we have absolutely nothing related to Tales of regarding the schedule of the fighter pass. Vesperia came too early with minor advertisment (wich on a marketing perspective, would make no sense to announce a ToCharacter so late after the game release).

Then we have ToArise announcement, the new mothership title. There's the rub. Arise is announced on absolutely every plateforms except Nintendo's. Plus the game would be released after the end of the Fighter Pass. And we can fairly assume that no Tales of game are coming on Swicth before that date, since nothing has been announced on the E3's direct.

Why in the world Nintendo would freely advertise Bandai Namco on their precious and risky slot of the DLC fighter for Smash Bros, if they have nothing to gain in exchange ? As I mentionned, the price of the DLC doesn't suffice to ensure the risks of the development. Every character except Banjo (until now) have been part of a bigger marketing move, and Tales of clearly left Nintendo hanging for this year and the next to come.

The only thing we can expect, it's that a switch port of ToArise is already planned. But even if it's the case, that would mean it's release would be kinda late since we don't even have a precise release date for ToArise on PS4, PC etc... except a vague 2020. If a port would be released on switch, it would be at least on 2021, and it would'nt be marketing wise to use the Fighter Pass window to promote it.

If a tales of game would have been announced on Switch this E3, it would have tremendously rise the odd for our boy. No announces at all would still maintain his chances pretty high for multiple reasons that you all know. But in a twist of fate, the worst scenario occured. Tales is announced everywhere except on Nintendo console. I can't imagine more definitive disconfirmation for Lloyd.

Hopefully, I'm wrong. But in all honesty and humility, I highly doubt it.

The size of the skeleton is important. Lloyd would be about the same height and proportions, just with a smaller head. And the sword is actually just as important as the skeleton to the model, so I would think it would have to be a sword user, otherwise they would have used Brawler or Gunner. We're basically looking for a sword user that stands at about the same height and has similar proportions as the miis. That's pretty definitively Lloyd. You're right that it's speculation, but imo it's still pretty damn convincing after what happened with Duck Hunt and Banjo.
Wait, this doesn't make anymore sense now. You're saying that size and proportions matter, but did you compared Duck Hunt and B&K ?! They're not even close ! The stance, the size and proportions, all of it. The only reason I assumed people linked B&K with Duck Hunt, it's because some of their moves (like Bair and Dtilt) are similar. But if you assume they have to be that similar in size etc, then the argument of the skeleton doesn't stand anymore.
Honnestly, for the sake of century glitch argument, I don't think the skeleton has to have be this precise, but rather the blueprint of the character just work as a base for another character (wich will explained the similar moves or gameplays, like the shield for the Hero).
But just in case you would see Banjo and Duck Hunt that similar in shape... well I don't see why Lloyd would be the only character who coincide with the Mii morphology. There's so many candidates.
 
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We know for a fact that DLC characters are not just for charity. The price only of the DLC doesn't suffice to ensure the cost and the time of the development. Sakurai explained it in his latest book. DLC are risky and kinda gambles. So it's logical to assume the reason why the DLC which are this time chosen by Nintendo, coincide with other release on Nintendo Switch (although, until now, nothing related to Banjo apart from the fighter pass has been announced).

Besides, in the case of Third Party, negociations are way more difficult as we already know, which make it more than a reason to make sure that Nintendo will be ending winner in the end.

The plant has been chosen specifically because Sakurai think that she is a character that everybody knows and would be perfect to advertise the preorder. he explained it in a interview.

P5 Scramble on Nintendo Switch followed the announce of Joker.

Nintendo and Square advertise a while ago DQX1S for Switch and it's release date is perfectly scheduled with the Fighter Pass.

Nothing on Banjo yet, but it safe to assume with the last trends these last years that B&K will got a revival of some sort like other big icons such as Crash and Spyro.


And we have absolutely nothing related to Tales of regarding the schedule of the fighter pass. Vesperia came too early with minor advertisment (wich on a marketing perspective, would make no sense to announce a ToCharacter so late after the game release).

Then we have ToArise announcement, the new mothership title. There's the rub. Arise is announced on absolutely every plateforms except Nintendo's. Plus the game would be released after the end of the Fighter Pass. And we can fairly assume that no Tales of game are coming on Swicth before that date, since nothing has been announced on the E3's direct.

Why in the world Nintendo would freely advertise Bandai Namco on their precious and risky slot of the DLC fighter for Smash Bros, if they have nothing to gain in exchange ? As I mentionned, the price of the DLC doesn't suffice to ensure the risks of the development. Every character except Banjo (until now) have been part of a bigger marketing move, and Tales of clearly left Nintendo hanging for this year and the next to come.

The only thing we can expect, it's that a switch port of ToArise is already planned. But even if it's the case, that would mean it's release would be kinda late since we don't even have a precise release date for ToArise on PS4, PC etc... except a vague 2020. If a port would be released on switch, it would be at least on 2021, and it would'nt be marketing wise to use the Fighter Pass window to promote it.

If a tales of game would have been announced on Switch this E3, it would have tremendously rise the odd for our boy. No announces at all would still maintain his chances pretty high for multiple reasons that you all know. But in a twist of fate, the worst scenario occured. Tales is announced everywhere except on Nintendo console. I can't imagine more definitive disconfirmation for Lloyd.

Hopefully, I'm wrong. But in all honesty and humility, I highly doubt it.



Wait, this doesn't make anymore sense now. You're saying that size and proportions matter, but did you compared Duck Hunt and B&K ?! They're not even close ! The stance, the size and proportions, all of it. The only reason I assumed people linked B&K with Duck Hunt, it's because some of their moves (like Bair and Dtilt) are similar. But if you assume they have to be that similar in size etc, then the argument of the skeleton doesn't stand anymore.
Honnestly, for the sake of century glitch argument, I don't think the skeleton has to have be this precise, but rather the blueprint of the character just work as a base for another character (wich will explained the similar moves or gameplays, like the shield for the Hero).
But just in case you would see Banjo and Duck Hunt that similar in shape... well I don't see why Lloyd would be the only character who coincide with the Mii morphology. There's so many candidates.
The reason Duck Hunt was the best fit for Banjo is because it already included one skeleton on the back of another. No other character has that. If they built Banjo off of anyone else they would have had to create Kazooie's skeleton from scratch.
 

Ypsen

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The reason Duck Hunt was the best fit for Banjo is because it already included one skeleton on the back of another. No other character has that. If they built Banjo off of anyone else they would have had to create Kazooie's skeleton from scratch.
Yeah, thought the same. So it's gameplay based, not skeleton based. If Banjo doesn't have a skeleton similar to Duck Hunt, then there's no decisive evidence Mii S. would necesseraly have the same precise skeleton of Lloyd. Banjo proves that a character could be based on another with not necessarely the same morphology, but just because it's easier to implement the gameplay. According to the speculation of the century glitch that is. Still don't see any decisive facts wich show this glitch is related to new characters, especially Lloyd. Just conveniences.
 
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Yeah, thought the same. So it's gameplay based, not skeleton based. If Banjo doesn't have a skeleton similar to Duck Hunt, then there's no decisive evidence Mii S. would necesseraly have the same precise skeleton of Lloyd. Banjo proves that a character could be based on another with not necessarely the same morphology, but just because it's easier to implement the gameplay. According to the speculation of the century glitch that is. Still don't see any decisive facts wich show this glitch is related to new characters, especially Lloyd. Just conveniences.
No. That's the opposite of what I said. It's 100% Skeleton based. To reiterate, Duck Hunt worked for Banjo because of the double skeleton. Not because of similar moves.

Edit: To put it more simply, modifying the dog's skeleton to stand upright and building Banjo from there and Kazooie from the duck is far less work than taking an already upright character and making a second skeleton from scratch to put on it's back.
 
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Ypsen

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No. That's the opposite of what I said. It's 100% Skeleton based. To reiterate, Duck Hunt worked for Banjo because of the double skeleton. Not because of similar moves.

Edit: To put it more simply, modifying the dog's skeleton to stand upright and building Banjo from there and Kazooie from the duck is far less work than taking an already upright character and making a second skeleton from scratch to put on it's back.
Yeah I got that. But what I mean is, even so, it's a contradiction with the fact that Mii S. should obviously be Lloyd because it should have precise proportions, when it's not the case for Banjo, who has just the "Duo" configuration, which what I meant by gameplay, blueprint, base for other chara and stuff. I really don't see why Mii S should have big chances to be Lloyd, more than anyone. But anyway, it's thinking the wrong way. We should'nt use it a non proved theory to raise the probability of our champion. Our Isaac's bro fellows did that a lot, turned out it was a bad Idea.

I can only try to guess what Nintendo have in mind and what the most effective way they could profit of the Smash DLC in this current time. I can't find any clues which lead to Tales of unfortunately. There was ToV at first, but Nintendo went pretty silent about it, so there's no reason they used Vesperia as an excuse when a lot of games whith got more or less the same amount of promotion. I try not to be biased just because I effin love Tales of, and would assume Nintendo would obviously turn themself to the licence just because it's Smash DLC time. They could chose any licences which could be more profitable at that moment... the question is, which one is ?
 
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I believe Lloyd might have a good chance, the whole Mii Swordfighter problem does seem rather weird, along with Lloyd being the only DLC costume character that isn't in smash in anyway.
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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Feel free to edit your post to show your support(or why you feel a character isn't likely). We encourage constructive conversations here. :)
 
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