The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - LLOYD SURVIVES THE SLAUGHTER!

Sigran101

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Not only do many of Swordfighter's specials uncannily resemble many of Lloyd's moves, timing is also a crucial detail here. Sakurai notified Japanese users at Ultimate's launch that the first 3 DLC characters were already in development. This means that the window for when work on character #4 could've began is very wide open and suggesting that they need a huge head start on every DLC character to meet that February 2020 deadline.

A month after Sakurai's notification is when Plant arrived and when Swordfighter and Duck Hunt problems began. Considering that Joker and Hero were the closest to being finished, it is very possible that all of the data tying them to existing fighters was able to be cleaned up properly before the patch, hence why Link and whoever Joker could've borrowed assets from did not crash Century Smash... but Duck Hunt (Banjo) and Swordfighter (character #4) did.

Though I'm curious as to where I can find the Sabi quote you mentioned, as I must've missed it when it first came around?
Sabi said a long time ago that there were rumors of Lloyd as dlc. Fatmanonice Fatmanonice was corroborating it. It was a long time ago so I don't have a link or something, Fatman would be the person to ask.
Are we all just pretending the Hero isn't a thing?
If you actually read my post you would have seen that I addressed Hero.
 

Bobthealligator

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Sabi said a long time ago that there were rumors of Lloyd as dlc. Fatmanonice Fatmanonice was corroborating it. It was a long time ago so I don't have a link or something, Fatman would be the person to ask.

If you actually read my post you would have seen that I addressed Hero.
I know but I think we can probably assume based on how long it's been since Joker that Mii Swordfighter is the Base for the Hero before assuming it's someone else.
 

Sigran101

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I know but I think we can probably assume based on how long it's been since Joker that Mii Swordfighter is the Base for the Hero before assuming it's someone else.
Then say that instead of accusing me of "pretending he doesn't exist". It's been discussed above, but I'll explain it again to you.

Just because Hero was earlier doesn't mean he caused the glitches. It could just as easily be that because he was well along in development he didn't cause a glitch, while the two in the earlier stages- presumably Banjo and Lloyd, did due to their unfinished state.

There's also no reason to believe that closest characters to release are the ones causing glitches because Joker, who was even earlier than Hero, did not cause a glitch.

Also, it seems pretty evident that Hero was built off of Link. Their skeleton is far closer to link than Mii swordfighter, they have a sword and shield like Link, and they share attack animations with Link.
 

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Sabi said a long time ago that there were rumors of Lloyd as dlc. Fatmanonice Fatmanonice was corroborating it. It was a long time ago so I don't have a link or something, Fatman would be the person to ask.

If you actually read my post you would have seen that I addressed Hero.
I can confirm but, like you said, it was a long time ago (as in last fall) and the only thing that went around was that a few people had "heard" Lloyd and Yuri mentioned in some sort of context possibly related to Smash It was just one of those "these names have been floating around" sort of situations and nobody really knew if there was anything substantial to it or if it was office water cooler bull****ting. To add context to this, Sabi and his circle had pretty strong evidence for Banjo as early as April because there were several notable people in the industry who came forward to her and basically said "yeah, he's pretty likely based on what I know." Lloyd has been nothing but whispers on the wind while Banjo was much more substantiated before his release.
 

Sigran101

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I can confirm but, like you said, it was a long time ago (as in last fall) and the only thing that went around was that a few people had "heard" Lloyd and Yuri mentioned in some sort of context possibly related to Smash It was just one of those "these names have been floating around" sort of situations and nobody really knew if there was anything substantial to it or if it was office water cooler bull****ting. To add context to this, Sabi and his circle had pretty strong evidence for Banjo as early as April because there were several notable people in the industry who came forward to her and basically said "yeah, he's pretty likely based on what I know." Lloyd has been nothing but whispers on the wind while Banjo was much more substantiated before his release.
Based on that timeline it sounds like it would still be a couple of months until insiders would have strong info on character 4. I wonder what will start to come out in the coming months.
 

Operationgamer

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That’s interesting, I always thought it was a red herring as Lloyd’s potential move set is basically in game already in the form of mii sword fighter. Here’s hoping that it holds true
Something that just occurred to me a while ago, could that end up makimg the case for Lloyd’s Mii Costume coming back? Since you could probably make one that plays close to him?

A user named ZeroZW on Twitter made a point that DQ VIII Hero dual wielding with a beam sword is reminiscent of Lloyd with his Material Blades. The colors, while not not exact, mirror them pretty well.

The look of the poison floor also reminded me of Derris-Kharlan.



Could just be an over-analysis, but it's still fun to point out possible hints.
Lloyd Spirit Battle confirmed, lol.
 
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TheTommynator

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Since Heroes are getting "Yggdrasil's Altar" as their DLC stage, do you guys think they would tie that stage to Lloyd if he makes it and gets a CG reveal trailer? The Giant Kharlan Tree, also named Yggdrasil, plays such a key role in Symphonia's storyline.
 

Operationgamer

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Since Heroes are getting "Yggdrasil's Altar" as their DLC stage, do you guys think they would tie that stage to Lloyd if he makes it and gets a CG reveal trailer? The Giant Kharlan Tree, also named Yggdrasil, plays such a key role in Symphonia's storyline.
Don’t think so. Every DLC character has their own stage.
 

TheTommynator

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Sorry about that! Will definitely stay away from spoilers. Hope you enjoy Symphonia!

And I should have worded that better. I meant to say that the CG reveal trailer, separate from the actual stage he could bring to smash, could take place on Yggdrasil's Altar since both games have that in common.
 
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Sigran101

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Sorry about that! Will definitely stay away from spoilers. Hope you enjoy Symphonia!

And I should have worded that better. I meant to say that the CG reveal trailer, separate from the actual stage he brings to smash, could take place on Yggdrasil's Altar.
No problem! You can still talk about spoilers though, just put them in a spoiler tag.
 

andree123

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I had a idea about a three tales of characters being one fighter, one character holds two swords, the 2nd character holds a sword and a shield, the last one would be a projectile throwing character.

Here is some alternative character costume ideas.

Symphonia: Lloyd, Zelos, Colette
Vesperia: Yuri, Flynn/Estelle, Rita/Estelle
Abyss: Guy, Luke, Tear
Phantasia: Rondoline/Suzu, Cress, Arche/Mint

To balance things out, Robin's sword and book durability system will apply only to the shield character (Loses one shield) and the double sword character (loses one sword).

So, any thoughts about this?
 

ryuu seika

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I had a idea about a three tales of characters being one fighter, one character holds two swords, the 2nd character holds a sword and a shield, the last one would be a projectile throwing character.
Here is some alternative character costume ideas.
Symphonia: Lloyd, Zelos, Colette
Vesperia: Yuri, Flynn/Estelle, Rita/Estelle
Abyss: Guy, Luke, Tear
Phantasia: Rondoline/Suzu, Cress, Arche/Mint
To balance things out, Robin's sword and book durability system will apply only to the shield character (Loses one shield) and the double sword character (loses one sword).
So, any thoughts about this?
Tales battle party size is four. This does not fit with the home franchise, nor make any sense from a Smash-specific standpoint.
Furthermore, Yuri and Londorine weild only one sword, while Suzu uses daggers and thus fights quite differently. Collette plays nothing like a staff-weilding mage and Arche, to be Arche, must be allowed to fly free.
This seems like a bad idea but I can think of two parties that would work for it:

Inferia: Efreet, Undine, Sylph (Rem for FS)
Celestia: Celsius, Volt, Gnome (Shadow for FS)

Each pupeteered by their respective summoner, a la Pokemon Trainer.
 

KoopaSaki

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Hey guys glad to see there’s some support on this thread again even if we aren’t as prominent as say the geno or Isaac thread, but Lloyd is in my top 5 most wanted smash characters for quite some time and now that banjo kazoooe got in, I sure am hopeful for namco Bandai to finally get their 2nd character and for Lloyd to join smash bros. I just hope that the addition of the dragon quest hero won’t deride his chances. I personally think Lloyd has a fair chance and I really want symphonies music in smash!
 

Sigran101

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Hey guys glad to see there’s some support on this thread again even if we aren’t as prominent as say the geno or Isaac thread, but Lloyd is in my top 5 most wanted smash characters for quite some time and now that banjo kazoooe got in, I sure am hopeful for namco Bandai to finally get their 2nd character and for Lloyd to join smash bros. I just hope that the addition of the dragon quest hero won’t deride his chances. I personally think Lloyd has a fair chance and I really want symphonies music in smash!
I think DQ hero actually raises his chances. They already have FF and DQ. If they just get Tales in there they'll have the big 3 RPG series all in one game! That's too good a chance to pass up.
 

andree123

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Please, don't let Lupin to take a playable Lloyd down, we need to think about the Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt century smash glitch speculation and a possible playable Colette for the partner theory and Milk-BOSATU rumor about a female playable.
 

Sigran101

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Please, don't let Lupin to take a playable Lloyd down, we need to think about the Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt century smash glitch speculation and a possible playable Colette for the partner theory and Milk-BOSATU rumor about a female playable.
Lupin leak is likely bull****. There's really no reason to believe it. But imo the thing about Colette has no chance at all of happening. The strongest evidence for Lloyd by far is the Mii swordfighter glitch.
 
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I find Lupin very hard to believe.

FF getting more music is slightly more realistic than Bandai Namco costumes being released alongside a Square character, but nonetheless seems fake

Edit: Leaks dead
 
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Icedragonadam

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The rumor is dead at this point. The deadline was 10:00 AM EST July 17th. Lloyd can breath a sigh of relief again. Watch as the mii costumes end up being only SE and the costume theory gets bolstered up again.
 
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The strongest evidence for Lloyd by far is the Mii swordfighter glitch.
That and the fact that his series is the only one that had a Mii costume in Smash 4 and doesn't have any representation in Ultimate in any form what so ever. To name the list of Smash 4's Mii costumes that do have represention in Ultimate:

Playable characters:

Inkling
Chrom
King K. Rool
Isabelle

Assist Trophies:

Rathalos
Zero
Knuckles
Skull Kid
Ashley
Guile
Takamaru
Akira
Black Knight

Spirits:

Geno

As a stage background:

Tails
Viridi
K. K. Slider

Stage hazard:

Flying Man

Part of Final Smash:

X
Proto-Man
Exe
Duban

Part of Taunts:

Heihachi

MIA:

Lloyd Irving
Gil
Monster Hunter

Okay I was wrong, but as you notice it's only Tales of Symphonia and Tower of Druaga that don't have represention in Ultimate. What's Interesting about that is they're both Namco-Bandai franchises.
 
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Sigran101

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That
That and the fact that his series is the only one that had a Mii costume in Smash 4 and doesn't have any representation in Ultimate in any form what so ever. To name the list of Smash 4's Mii costumes that do have represention in Ultimate:

Playable characters:

Inkling
Chrom
King K. Rool
Isabelle

Assist Trophies:

Rathalos
Zero
Knuckles
Skull Kid
Ashley
Guile
Takamaru
Akira
Black Knight

Spirits:

Geno

As a stage background:

Tails
Viridi
K. K. Slider

Stage hazard:

Flying Man

Part of Final Smash:

X
Proto-Man
Exe
Duban

Part of Taunts:

Heihachi

MIA:

Lloyd Irving
Gil
Monster Hunter

Okay I was wrong, but as you notice it's only Tales of Symphonia and Tower of Druaga that don't have represention in Ultimate. What's Interesting about that is they're both Namco-Bandai franchises.
That's an interesting point! I didn't know that. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean he'll be playable, as they could simply bring back his Mii costume. But it's definitely evidence of Tales representation of some kind.


Edit: Lupin is officially dead, so Lloyd is safe for now.
 
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VashTehStampede

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Just felt like listening to symphonia music. Oh man, just imagine what a smashified remix of this song would sound like? It'd be incredible!
 
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So, Lloyd costumes. I think they should have a gimmick where the costume Lloyd wears changes his Boxing Ring title, since in Tales Titles are an actual feature that impact gameplay. I think EX Gems would be more than enough, having his costume change how he plays would be completely insane, so I'll let that slide.

Default (Eternal Swordsman) - Colette Colors (Peeping Tom) - Genis/Sheena Colors (Gourmet King/Gentle Idealist) - Kratos Colors (Sword of Swords) - Pirate Costume (Arrgh, Me Hearties) - Beach Costume (Beach Boy) - Noble Costume (Nobleman) - Samurai Costume (Unrivaled Blade).

Might've posted this before, sorry if I have, since I've had this idea for a while.

Also, I could pick 11 Symphonia Songs easily (without touching the sequel, too). Full Force, Like a Glint of Light, Keen-Edged Blade, Keep Your Guard Up!, Fatalize, The Law of the Battle, Fighting of the Spirit, Beat the Angel, The End of a Thought, It Can Waver and Fight, and Final Destination (do not look up those last three songs, they are spoilers if you haven't gotten to the part where they play) if we only do battle themes (The Struggle to Survive is probably the weakest of them). If we have themes outside of battles, The Edge of Nowhere, Search a Seal, a new mix of Lloyd's theme, The Land of Sylvarant, the second world map theme (conscious of spoilers that are in the title), and that's just scratching the surface.

That being said, if Namco is more generous with songs, I could see 17 songs: 11 from Symphonia, and 6 from other titles in the franchise (Phantasia, Abyss, Vesperia, Xillia, and Berseria, for example). And it's unlikely that if we only get 11, all 11 of them will come from Symphonia, unless Sakurai doesn't do for Tales what he did for Persona.
 

VashTehStampede

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I was going to ask, would anyone have any interest in making a LloydIrving Support Discord and hopefully turn it into a Lloyd Irving Main Discord if/when he gets announced for smash? I've always wanted to start one up but I know little to nothing about making roles/channels/bots and all the things discord is capable of so I'd much rather leave it to someone who's a bit more up to snuff on the tech side of things.
 

Desert Croc

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So, Lloyd costumes. I think they should have a gimmick where the costume Lloyd wears changes his Boxing Ring title, since in Tales Titles are an actual feature that impact gameplay. I think EX Gems would be more than enough, having his costume change how he plays would be completely insane, so I'll let that slide.

Default (Eternal Swordsman) - Colette Colors (Peeping Tom) - Genis/Sheena Colors (Gourmet King/Gentle Idealist) - Kratos Colors (Sword of Swords) - Pirate Costume (Arrgh, Me Hearties) - Beach Costume (Beach Boy) - Noble Costume (Nobleman) - Samurai Costume (Unrivaled Blade).

Might've posted this before, sorry if I have, since I've had this idea for a while.

Also, I could pick 11 Symphonia Songs easily (without touching the sequel, too). Full Force, Like a Glint of Light, Keen-Edged Blade, Keep Your Guard Up!, Fatalize, The Law of the Battle, Fighting of the Spirit, Beat the Angel, The End of a Thought, It Can Waver and Fight, and Final Destination (do not look up those last three songs, they are spoilers if you haven't gotten to the part where they play) if we only do battle themes (The Struggle to Survive is probably the weakest of them). If we have themes outside of battles, The Edge of Nowhere, Search a Seal, a new mix of Lloyd's theme, The Land of Sylvarant, the second world map theme (conscious of spoilers that are in the title), and that's just scratching the surface.

That being said, if Namco is more generous with songs, I could see 17 songs: 11 from Symphonia, and 6 from other titles in the franchise (Phantasia, Abyss, Vesperia, Xillia, and Berseria, for example). And it's unlikely that if we only get 11, all 11 of them will come from Symphonia, unless Sakurai doesn't do for Tales what he did for Persona.
I don’t see why he wouldn’t. Sakurai seems to want to represent each anthology series with more than just one game. Persona got a stage gimmick where the Mementos changes colour schemes depending on the game the song being played and Dragon Quest is getting alts for different DQ heroes. Both series also have music from various games included (Music from DQ3 was in the hero’s trailer, even though DQ11 is the focus). At the very least, I can see other Tales protagonists such as Yuri or Luke being Mii costumes. I’d be fine with the all the music being from Symphonia, though I just think it would be awesome to hear songs such as Fury Sparks and Meaning of Birth during a match, just like how it’s possible to do so with I’ll Face Myself and Battle Hymn of the Soul.
 

Ypsen

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But I don't get it. Why is everyone so sure that this glitch is a near confirmation for Lloyd ? For starters, have we a real evidence that the century glicth is really related to unannounced character ? It's a real question, no sarcasm. I really don't know, it's just that I personnaly only saw speculations.
And even if we have evidence that this glich is indeed related to yet to be revealed character, why should it be Lloyd ? Is it just because of the "tempest" and "sword rain" specials of the Mii fighter ?
 
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But I don't get it. Why is everyone so sure that this glitch is a near confirmation for Lloyd ? For starters, have we a real evidence that the century glicth is really related to unannounced character ? It's a real question, no sarcasm. I really don't know, it's just that I personnaly only saw speculations.
And even if we have evidence that this glich is indeed related to yet to be revealed character, why should it be Lloyd ? Is it just because of the "tempest" and "sword rain" specials of the Mii fighter ?
I think it means jack ****. But I'm a guy that full-on believes the final two new franchises will be Doom and Resident Evil (with Ninja Gaiden being an alternative possibility).

I think Tales will come eventually, but not in the first Fighter Pass.
 

Ypsen

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I think it means jack ****. But I'm a guy that full-on believes the final two new franchises will be Doom and Resident Evil (with Ninja Gaiden being an alternative possibility).

I think Tales will come eventually, but not in the first Fighter Pass.
The only thing wich, in my opinion, really hurts Lloyd or Tales of, it's the fact that ToArise will be on any platforms except Switch. I don't see Nintendo making free advertisment for Bandai Namco/Tales of, when we know from Sakurai's mouth that making DLC characters are difficult and risky. And I'm positive that Banjo will get a revival of some sort on Switch. It's a big trend this last years.

But if it wasn't for this big bad news of the ToArise announcement, I think Lloyd would have more than decent chance to get in this fighter pass. So I do see why other Lloyd's supporter who don't think this ToArise announcement is a disconfirmation, still strongly believe Lloyd's in it. Because apart this non-Switch release, Lloyd has actualy a lot for him. But in my humble opinion, discarding ToArise is ignoring the elephant in the room.
As for the Century Smash thing, until someone give decisive argument, I'll only see it as datamining wild theory.

I freaking hope I'm wrong. Lloyd and Isaac kept being disconfirmed since Brawl days, and I would love to be surprised and pleased for once.
 
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Sigran101

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But I don't get it. Why is everyone so sure that this glitch is a near confirmation for Lloyd ? For starters, have we a real evidence that the century glicth is really related to unannounced character ? It's a real question, no sarcasm. I really don't know, it's just that I personnaly only saw speculations.
And even if we have evidence that this glich is indeed related to yet to be revealed character, why should it be Lloyd ? Is it just because of the "tempest" and "sword rain" specials of the Mii fighter ?
The idea is that when Piranha Plant released, two existing characters started crashing the game in century smash. These two were duck hunt and Mii swordfighter. This meant that their code had been altered in some way since they didn't do this before. Sakurai has mentioned how new characters are usually built from the skeleton of existing characters. For example, Bayo was built from Zamus and Cloud was built from Ike. This is to cut down on the work of building the skeleton and is not greatly impacted by moves.

Given this, people speculated that Banjo and Lloyd are being worked on. Banjo was confirmed, seemingly proving that this was indeed the reason duck hunt was glitching. Now we have hero built over Link, so the question is who was being built over Mii swordfighter. The only reasonable answer is Lloyd, as his skeleton is very similar to it.

Regarding ToArise, Persona 5 Royal is confirmed to be a PS4 exclusive, so I don't think it matters in the slightest.
 
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The idea is that when Piranha Plant released, two existing characters started crashing the game in century smash. These two were duck hunt and Mii swordfighter. This meant that their code had been altered in some way since they didn't do this before. Sakurai has mentioned how new characters are usually built from the skeleton of existing characters. For example, Bayo was built from Zamus and Cloud was built from Ike. This is to cut down on the work of building the skeleton and is not greatly impacted by moves.

Given this, people speculated that Banjo and Lloyd are being worked on. Banjo was confirmed, seemingly proving that this was indeed the reason duck hunt was glitching. Now we have hero built over Link, so the question is who was being built over Mii swordfighter. The only reasonable answer is Lloyd, as his skeleton is very similar to it.

Regarding ToArise, Persona 5 Royal is confirmed to be a PS4 exclusive, so I don't think it matters in the slightest.
Agreed, though a persona game IS coming to switch (P5S for scramble) I still don’t think it’s much of anything regardless. Bamco is literally help make the game after all.
 

Ypsen

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Given this, people speculated that Banjo and Lloyd are being worked on. Banjo was confirmed, seemingly proving that this was indeed the reason duck hunt was glitching. Now we have hero built over Link, so the question is who was being built over Mii swordfighter. The only reasonable answer is Lloyd, as his skeleton is very similar to it.
So this is indeed speculations... not so far-fetched, sure, but still speculations anyways. Who knows the many reasons wich could have cause this glitch. Maybe it's true, but I don't want to rely my hopes on that.

Miis have really plain skeletons, so I would think it could be anyone, even a character who doesn't wield a sword but would have similar stances or movements. As for the tempest and sword rain moves, well, they were in Smash 4 and no Lloyd was here until the ballot seemed to show at Sakurai's face how requested Lloyd was.

Honestly, ToVesperia on switch is a much bigger deal than Scramble.
I don't know about that man. Persona 5 was such a big deal, and having a new entry even if it's a spin off on Switch, wich is besides, an exclusivity, is way more bigger than a not so new edition of an already existing game.
 
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So this is indeed speculations... not so far-fetched, sure, but still speculations anyways. Who knows the many reasons wich could have cause this glitch. Maybe it's true, but I don't want to rely my hopes on that.

Miis have really plain skeletons, so I would think it could be anyone, even a character who doesn't wield a sword but would have similar stances or movements. As for the tempest and sword rain moves, well, they were in Smash 4 and no Lloyd was here until the ballot seemed to show at Sakurai's face how requested Lloyd was.



I don't know about that man. Persona 5 was such a big deal, and having a new entry even if it's a spin off on Switch, wich is besides, an exclusivity, is way more bigger than a not so new edition of an already existing game.
Persona 5 scramble is my no means an exclusive, it’s confirmed to be coming to switch and ps4
 

Ypsen

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Persona 5 scramble is my no means an exclusive, it’s confirmed to be coming to switch and ps4
Oopsie.
Still, it doesn't change the fact that a new spin off game from a very recent and very successful game has more meaning for smash that a port of an old japan exclusivity.
 

Desert Croc

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Does Tales of Arise really hinder Lloyd’s chances. I mean, the game he is from was most known for being on the GameCube and that should be more than enough for him to get in. He has a better relationship with Nintendo than Joker honestly.
 
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