The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - LLOYD SURVIVES THE SLAUGHTER!

Icedragonadam

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I hope it eventually makes it way to Switch. I guess we'll have to hear from the devs themselves about potential Switch plans when the game is revealed.
 

frozolloyd

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Oh dear god, the new pics of a new Tales game are leaked, it looks like a crossover between Tales and Monster Hunter.
I was hoping that the Tales team would followed Kill La Kill IF's style and animation, but we got this.


Glad to see there is some info out there for the new Tales game, even if it is in a leak. But dear lord... comparing these graphics to Beseria is kind of wild. If these screenshots are true, this is probably going to be the best looking Tales game, period. Honestly, I'm speechless. Hopefully the story/ gameplay will be just as crisp. On that note, I wonder if this new Tales game will be officially shown of at e3 or if they will save the reveal for their convention, which is like June 16th if I remember correctly.

I wonder what's caused such a large silence with Lloyd's fanbase? He's just as likely as he used to be quite some time ago, having very good chances compared to most other Bamco characters.

Anyway... I was thinking about how culturally important of a game Symphonia is. Its themes and many characters within it are just as important as it was in 2003, heck, maybe even more so than back then. It's something that'd be better off on Twitter though.

Hm... how could we incorporate the EX Gem system, and by extension Strike and Technical Techs/Artes into Lloyd's moveset? A Shield Special like the Inklings?
The silence that happens I think has a lot of reasons to it. First, unlike the Geno and Banjo fandom, we are a pretty small fandom, so keeping the conversation going constantly is harder with less people. Second, for better or for worse, leaks, leakers and "Theories" always are the things that drive discussion on threads that aren't the Banjo and Geno threads. And it has been months since any leaker has mentioned our boy, and nothing new has happened since. That isn't to say his chance has gotten worse, it just means no leakers have heard anything related to him in a while. That's the reason why some of these threads (Yuri Lowell's thread, and Artorias from dark souls are good examples) have a certain time frame when there is constant talk about those characters, then all talk stops abruptly. Finally, which this is just my own speculation, I would guess a lot of fans are "quiet" supporters, in the fact they support the character and want him in, but may not be up for discussion. This is just my 2 cents on the issue.

As for EX Gem system, I think if this system were to be implemented, it would be implemented just naturally into the moveset. Rather then being able switch between the two modes, maybe his specials could just be a mix of these two different Techs. Even though it wouldn't be true to how the Techs worked in the game, I think that might be the easiest way to implement it and would result in the most unique skill set. I could see Sakurai doing this too, as he has taken "creative liberties" with other characters in the past (with Rebel Guard being a good example). Personally though, if he gets added to the game, I hope Sakurai doesn't give him a down B counter like every other sword character has. Lloyd really doesn't need it.
 
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Ypsen

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Personally though, if he gets added to the game, I hope Sakurai doesn't give him a down B counter like every other sword character has. Lloyd really doesn't need it.
I think Guardian will be very likely, or maybe it'll work with a similar fashion as in ToS, with pressing guard and down (wich will give an enhanced spotdodge, or will work like Inkling with Shield + special). Rather than a counter, I can imagine a defensive move with great potential. Maybe a very powerful reflector, or a large windbox around Lloyd.

The new Tales of looks lit ! I'm not a big fan of the charadesign of the protagonist though. The girl looks a lot like Lailah.
 

Ypsen

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Lloyd announced at Game Awards ? I just don't see it...
Yeah, me neither...

Also, Tales of Arise has been announced... during a Microsoft event, with no Switch release (wich I'm really surprised)... Not a good sign for our favorite dual sword wielder.
I mean, unless Bandai Namco has another Tales of in their sleeve, there will be no point to bring a Tales of Character in that time of year on Smash Bros. DLC being chosen by Nintendo, there won't be any profit for this collaboration. I reaaaaally don't like this.

Honestly and I don't want to be that guy, but I see this lack of announcement on Switch as a straight-up disconfirmation for a Tales of representative in Smash.

 
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VashTehStampede

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Yeah, me neither...

Also, Tales of Arise has been announced... during a Microsoft event, with no Switch release (wich I'm really surprised)... Not a good sign for our favorite dual sword wielder.
I mean, unless Bandai Namco has another Tales of in their sleeve, there will be no point to bring a Tales of Character in that time of year on Smash Bros. DLC being chosen by Nintendo, there won't be any profit for this collaboration. I reaaaaally don't like this.

Honestly and I don't want to be that guy, but I see this lack of announcement on Switch as a straight-up disconfirmation for a Tales of representative in Smash.


I dont fully agree, sure another tales game coming out not on switch is a bummer and could be seen as a hit to our boy but taking that stance, yuri would be a better choice since his game just came out and is on switch. I dont think it's that simple. King k.rool getting in while not being in a DKC game for years just shows that newer entries and bosses dont always trump the poster boy. We also know more tales of games are in the works, one on mobile and there was hints at a switch tales game coming at some point. Also with the fact, bandai pointing out the interest in porting more older games to switch and newer consoles. It doesn't seem too silly if lloyd was a later pick out of the 4 left to come with a re-release of Symphonia or even a remaster of sorts.
 

Ypsen

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I dont fully agree, sure another tales game coming out not on switch is a bummer and could be seen as a hit to our boy but taking that stance, yuri would be a better choice since his game just came out and is on switch. I dont think it's that simple. King k.rool getting in while not being in a DKC game for years just shows that newer entries and bosses dont always trump the poster boy. We also know more tales of games are in the works, one on mobile and there was hints at a switch tales game coming at some point. Also with the fact, bandai pointing out the interest in porting more older games to switch and newer consoles. It doesn't seem too silly if lloyd was a later pick out of the 4 left to come with a re-release of Symphonia or even a remaster of sorts.
Except K.K.Rool was in the base roster. So there was less reason for profit or marketing strategy, Sakurai like bringing back old icons. Besides, Lloyd is a third party character, and Sakurai already said it's hard to bring such characters in the roster, even in DLC. Wich means there must be some profit to make for the third party editor.
I can't find the article, but I do remember Namco saying that the next mothership title of Tales of will be on Switch, and obviously, it's not the case, wich could possibly means they changed their plans.. Even if another game, like if a spin off is in preperation, I don't think we can count a release during the Fighter Pass window... wich again hurt Lloyd. Sakurai did say that the DLC was a risk since the market isn't stable, so I can't see him releasing Lloyd for a Tales of game releasing post 2020.
And I wouldn't count on a new release of Syphonia, since it already occured several times, with ToS Chronicles. But who knows, Ocarina of Time had such treatments.
 
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VashTehStampede

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Yeah that leak I posted had the timing in the direct correct with erdrick at the beginning and closing out with banjo, while releases are not correct that’s still pretty precise on the timing. Lloyd’s chances are looking
 

andree123

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So the speculation that :ultduckhunt: century smash save data glitch that leaked Banjo came true, Erdrick (A name that I used for the hero DLC fighter) has a dash attack similar to :ultlink: which means that :ultlink: was the base for Erdrick, not :ultswordfighter:, this leaves us :ultswordfighter: century smash save data glitch leaking any character that uses :ultswordfighter: as a base, with Lloyd could be the closest fit as :ultswordfighter:'s Airborne Assault, Power Thrust and Blurring Blade are similar to Lloyd's Tempest, Sonic Thrust and Sword Rain.
 
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So the speculation that :ultduckhunt: century smash save data glitch that leaked Banjo came true, Erdrick (A name that I used for the hero DLC fighter) has a dash attack similar to :ultlink: which means that :ultlink: was the base for Erdrick, not :ultswordfighter:, this leaves us :ultswordfighter: century smash save data glitch leaking any character that uses :ultswordfighter: as a base, with Lloyd could be the closest fit as :ultswordfighter:'s Airborne Assault, Power Thrust and Blurring Blade are similar to Lloyd's Tempest, Sonic Thrust and Sword Rain.
Good catch there, so that means if Lloyd is coming he probably will be 4 and leaves Leon as character 5.
 

frozolloyd

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After the dust has settled, things are looking pretty good for our boy!
1. Most leaks and theories excluding Lloyd are now dead, but in contrast, the costume theory seems to still be going pretty strong! Although the true test with the costume theory comes when they release "The Hero".
2. As you guys pointed out, with Banjo being added, it looks like having a new installment coming to switch isn't a requirement, meaning we don't need to have a new Tales game on the switch to "advertise" for Lloyd to be added.
3. Any talk about a character being "older" or "irrelevant" seems to have officially been shut down with Banjo, meaning if Sakurai thinks Lloyd is a better rep for the series then Yuri, Yuri's having a newer game won't be a factor.

On a side note, seeing how both Dragon Quest and Banjo got the red carpet treatment in their trailers like Joker makes me excited thinking how the Tales series might be treated. Not to mention the fact we might be able to see Lloyd in a CG trailer, which would be so cool! As for the order, if he were to be announced, I'm betting there will be some sort of smash direct where characters 4 and 5 will be announced. I think this because, just like smash 4, Sakurai still needs to announce either the final patch/ officially confirm no more DLC, or confirm fighter pass season 2. And similarly to the Hero, I can see him pairing Lloyd, who appeals to a more niche audience, up with some hugely popular character that would appeal to the broader smash audience, like Leon.
 
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Howdy I'm a Lloyd and Erdrick supporter tales of is the last big JRPG franchise that needs to get into smash (technically Shin Megami Tensei if you count Persona as its own thing) don't give up hope you'll get your dew
 
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A lot of the DLC characters have had something that helps them stand out from the crowd: Joker's Rebellion Gauge and Hero's MP Gauge mechanics are very much things that help them stand out. That's why I was considering an EX Gem system, the thing that makes Symphonia stand out the most from even future titles, let alone other RPG's. More in the spoiler.

Lloyd would start a match in a neutral state: all of his moves that are Strike or Technical are not available, instead being their weaker standard versions. However, Lloyd has a shield special in which he can select which of the 9 EX Skills he wants on. The "9th" EX Skill is "Blank", which sends him back to this standard state. There are 4 Skills for Strike and 4 for Technical modes, which immediately affect what Techs/Artes (they will be referred to as Techs, the nomenclature Symphonia uses to refer to what are more commonly known as Artes) Lloyd will use. Lloyd's techs do not stop at his specials: a bunch of his normal attacks are considered Techs, and thus are altered. Up to 3 skills can be active at a time, and Blank overrides all of them: whichever side has more EX Skills on determines whether Lloyd is Strike or Technical. I don't think compound EX Skills would be a thing, that's where I draw the line in terms of complicated.

By the way, Lloyd would use the Material Blade, the Dual Swords that represent Lloyd's fathers, which consists of the Vorpal Sword (which represents Dirk, his adoptive father) and the Flamberge (which represents Kratos, Lloyd's blood father) in his right and his left hand respectively. If you are hit with the Vorpal Sword, it deals Ice damage, and if you are hit with the Flamberge, it deals Fire damage.

Strike Skills
  1. Strong, which increases the damage and knockback Lloyd deals by 5% and 10 units respectively.
  2. Tough, which increases Lloyd's weight (his base would be 100) by 5 and decreases damage taken by 10%.
  3. Personal, which decreases all of the starting, ending, and landing lag of ALL of Lloyd's moves by 5 frames. Keep in mind, all of them would already start up pretty quick: now a lot of his moves are lightning fast.
  4. Lastly, there's Guard Plus, which increases the size of Lloyd's shield and makes it sturdier (survives 50% more shield damage).
Technical Skills
  1. Taunt, which heals 5% HP every time Lloyd uses a taunt, and in online matches permits him to use a taunt.
  2. Dodge, which increases the length of Lloyd's rolls and makes all of his dodges start 3 frames sooner and end 2 frames later.
  3. Dash, which increases Lloyd's run speed from 5th fastest to (either 1st or 2nd) fastest, and his air speed from 4th fastest to 2nd fastest.
  4. And for the final skill, Follow-Up, which increases Lloyd's hitstun dealt to enemies by 5 frames.
For example, if Lloyd had Strong, Dash, and Guard Plus, he would be considered Strike overall.
The following moves are Techs, and thus affected by Strike/Technical modes. Since we're likely all Symphonia fans, I like to believe that these moves speak for themselves when it comes to how they'd work.
  1. Demon Fang
    1. Fierce Demon Fang is the Strike version. Demonic Circle would have a place elsewhere.
    2. Double Demon Fang is the Technical version. Demonic Chaos would have a place elsewhere.
  2. Sword Rain
    1. Sonic Sword Rain is the Strike version.
    2. Sword Rain: Beta is the Technical version. Alpha has been omitted.
  3. Sonic Thrust
    1. Super Sonic Thrust is the Strike version.
    2. Hurricane Thrust is the Technical version.
  4. Tiger Blade
    1. Twin Tiger Blade is the Strike version. Heavy has been omitted.
    2. Tiger Rage is the Technical version.
  5. Tempest
    1. Psi Tempest is the Strike version.
    2. Omega Tempest is the Technical version.
  6. Beast
    1. Hunting Beast is the Strike version.
    2. Raging Beast is the Technical version.
  7. While Techs, Lloyd's Rising Falcon and his (the only one I'll assign a move slot to) Final Smash Falcon's Crest do not care about Strike/Technical mode and can be used either way.

As for my impressions of a Lloyd Irving trailer, I would expect it to be animated like the post-GameCube boot up opening and pre-credits ending sequences.

I want to ask this extremely important question. Obviously, Katsuyuki Konishi will be playing Lloyd in the Japanese version if he gets in, but would you guys rather have Scott Menville or Brian Beacock serve as the English voice of Lloyd were he to be included? (Being brutally honest, my first impression of Beacock's voice wasn't great since I'm far, FAR too used to Menville to un-hear him whenever I read a Lloyd quote of any kind.)
 
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A lot of the DLC characters have had something that helps them stand out from the crowd: Joker's Rebellion Gauge and Hero's MP Gauge mechanics are very much things that help them stand out. That's why I was considering an EX Gem system, the thing that makes Symphonia stand out the most from even future titles, let alone other RPG's. More in the spoiler.

Lloyd would start a match in a neutral state: all of his moves that are Strike or Technical are not available, instead being their weaker standard versions. However, Lloyd has a shield special in which he can select which of the 9 EX Skills he wants on. The "9th" EX Skill is "Blank", which sends him back to this standard state. There are 4 Skills for Strike and 4 for Technical modes, which immediately affect what Techs/Artes (they will be referred to as Techs, the nomenclature Symphonia uses to refer to what are more commonly known as Artes) Lloyd will use. Lloyd's techs do not stop at his specials: a bunch of his normal attacks are considered Techs, and thus are altered. Up to 3 skills can be active at a time, and Blank overrides all of them: whichever side has more EX Skills on determines whether Lloyd is Strike or Technical. I don't think compound EX Skills would be a thing, that's where I draw the line in terms of complicated.

By the way, Lloyd would use the Material Blade, the Dual Swords that represent Lloyd's fathers, which consists of the Vorpal Sword (which represents Dirk, his adoptive father) and the Flamberge (which represents Kratos, Lloyd's blood father) in his right and his left hand respectively. If you are hit with the Vorpal Sword, it deals Ice damage, and if you are hit with the Flamberge, it deals Fire damage.

Strike Skills
  1. Strong, which increases the damage and knockback Lloyd deals by 5% and 10 units respectively.
  2. Tough, which increases Lloyd's weight (his base would be 100) by 5 and decreases damage taken by 10%.
  3. Personal, which decreases all of the starting, ending, and landing lag of ALL of Lloyd's moves by 5 frames. Keep in mind, all of them would already start up pretty quick: now a lot of his moves are lightning fast.
  4. Lastly, there's Guard Plus, which increases the size of Lloyd's shield and makes it sturdier (survives 50% more shield damage).
Technical Skills
  1. Taunt, which heals 5% HP every time Lloyd uses a taunt, and in online matches permits him to use a taunt.
  2. Dodge, which increases the length of Lloyd's rolls and makes all of his dodges start 3 frames sooner and end 2 frames later.
  3. Dash, which increases Lloyd's run speed from 5th fastest to (either 1st or 2nd) fastest, and his air speed from 4th fastest to 2nd fastest.
  4. And for the final skill, Follow-Up, which increases Lloyd's hitstun dealt to enemies by 5 frames.
For example, if Lloyd had Strong, Dash, and Guard Plus, he would be considered Strike overall.
The following moves are Techs, and thus affected by Strike/Technical modes. Since we're likely all Symphonia fans, I like to believe that these moves speak for themselves when it comes to how they'd work.
  1. Demon Fang
    1. Fierce Demon Fang is the Strike version. Demonic Circle would have a place elsewhere.
    2. Double Demon Fang is the Technical version. Demonic Chaos would have a place elsewhere.
  2. Sword Rain
    1. Sonic Sword Rain is the Strike version.
    2. Sword Rain: Beta is the Technical version. Alpha has been omitted.
  3. Sonic Thrust
    1. Super Sonic Thrust is the Strike version.
    2. Hurricane Thrust is the Technical version.
  4. Tiger Blade
    1. Twin Tiger Blade is the Strike version. Heavy has been omitted.
    2. Tiger Rage is the Technical version.
  5. Tempest
    1. Psi Tempest is the Strike version.
    2. Omega Tempest is the Technical version.
  6. Beast
    1. Hunting Beast is the Strike version.
    2. Raging Beast is the Technical version.
  7. While Techs, Lloyd's Rising Falcon and his (the only one I'll assign a move slot to) Final Smash Falcon's Crest do not care about Strike/Technical mode and can be used either way.

As for my impressions of a Lloyd Irving trailer, I would expect it to be animated like the post-GameCube boot up opening and pre-credits ending sequences.

I want to ask this extremely important question. Obviously, Katsuyuki Konishi will be playing Lloyd in the Japanese version if he gets in, but would you guys rather have Scott Menville or Brian Beacock serve as the English voice of Lloyd were he to be included? (Being brutally honest, my first impression of Beacock's voice wasn't great since I'm far, FAR too used to Menville to un-hear him whenever I read a Lloyd quote of any kind.)
Definitely Scott Menville, he’s THE Lloyd in my eyes.
 

Ypsen

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Banjo was straight up announced with no confirmation of a new installment. Lloyd’s still got a chance
But that doesn't mean it won't be the case on a near future. But in tales of's case, we know for sure that the late incoming mothership title won't be on Switch.

The only thing wich gives me a faint glimmer of hope, is the fact I can't really imagine another better and long demanded third party character for the Fighter Pass. But there's so many contenders which I probably can't imagine who fit just as good or better as Lloyd...
 

KoopaSaki

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I’ll keep supporting Lloyd on this thread guys. Now that I got banjo and Kazooie, I’m going to support him and shantae as they are characters I deeply hope make it in someday. Having Lloyd in and getting Symphonia music in smash is something I’ve dreamed about since the brawl days. Let’s support him the best we can!
 
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andree123

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In the DQ Hero trailer, we got Dharkon and it has Link which he holds a sword and shield like the DQ Hero.
What I think we should get In Lloyd's trailer, we should get Galeem and have Pit in it, just because the light fits well with Pit's default color and he is a dual wielder like Lloyd.
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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In the DQ Hero trailer, we got Dharkon and it has Link which he holds a sword and shield like the DQ Hero.
What I think we should get In Lloyd's trailer, we should get Galeem and have Pit in it, just because the light fits well with Pit's default color and he is a dual wielder like Lloyd.
Link is also often known these days for riding on a horse. Makes me wonder if the similarities played a role. I mean, Link clearly took inspiration from the DQ1 Hero too.
 

SmashBro99

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ToS is my fave game of all time, I'd love to have Lloyd and Tales rep'd in smash, at the same time, I feel like we dont need more swords, and he brings two haha.

I still support it, why couldn't Regal be the main character tho...
 
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Sanae

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I'm still holding out hope for Lloyd (or Yuri, but now it looks like Lloyd might have a bigger chance). Namco really needs another rep and I'd much rather have a Tales rep over a Tekken rep or something else.
 
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Link is also often known these days for riding on a horse. Makes me wonder if the similarities played a role. I mean, Link clearly took inspiration from the DQ1 Hero too.
That and also the fact that zelda and dragon quest used to make references to each other back in the day
 
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If we got Lloyd (or any Tales of rep, though IMO, prolly Lloyd,) which tracks do you see making it into the game?

Tales of Symphonia

• Full Force
• Fatalize (Remix)
• Beat the Angel
• Starry Heavens (Remix)

Tales of Phantasia

• Fighting of the Spirit (Remix)

Tales of the Abyss

• Meaning of Birth
• Finish the Promise

Tales of Vesperia

• Fury Sparks

Tales of Arise

• Unnamed song (would be cool to have one in here like how Snake brought an MGS4 song for Brawl.)

There's so many incredible songs, but these feel like some of the big ones that'd make it in while Tales of Symphonia still gets the majority for a series. I'd love Be Your Wings from Tales of VS (the opening theme), but that's totally a never-ever song. It gives such epic shounen anime OP vibes.
 

andree123

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So people were digging up this guy's tweets and found this.
It's the same guy I brought up before that keep on saying a female fighting game character is coming as DLC.



I believe this is before Vergeben's 7SE lists come out.
What's interesting here is that this leaker was specifically saying that there will be no female alts for DQ Heroes.
I think no other leakers were saying that.
Fighting game character part was could be mentioning Ken but later he's saying "a female fighting game character for DLC".
Switch VR thing is kind of correct. But this was guessable.

What do you guys think?
Is Tales officially considered to be a fighting game but with RPG twist?
 
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I hope that if Lloyd gets in he brings more than just Tales of symphonia music with him.

I would love to have Fury sparks in smash
 

VashTehStampede

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The chances for our boy are looking pretty darn good. We've got to hang tight for a good while before we can get any sort of info from Nintendo themselves but until then let's have our voices be heard and campaign Lloyd as we have been. I know it's easy to slip into a state of uncertainty and this thread shows it can be weeks with barely any conversation, but try to keep the dream alive because unlike many others, Lloyd is in such a good spot right now to be one of the last two!
 

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So a new trailer of Tales of Arise released at the Tales Festival. Main character's names are Alphen and Shionne.

That said though, with the confirmation of Namco wanting to market the game to the west(with it's reveal being E3 rather than Tales Fest), and with what Sakurai said about Smash helping advertise and raise awareness of series with playable characters(and pretty half the reason Dragon Quest is in Smash), we'll probably see Lloyd(or Yuri,Velvet or maybe even the 0.001% chance of Alphen) announced in the fall or winter. This would definitely be a smart marketing move for Namco for Arise to be a big success.


 
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Ypsen

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So a new trailer of Tales of Arise released at the Tales Festival. Main character's names are Alphen and Shionne.

That said though, with the confirmation of Namco wanting to market the game to the west(with it's reveal being E3 rather than Tales Fest), and with what Sakurai said about Smash helping advertise and raise awareness of series with playable characters(and pretty half the reason Dragon Quest is in Smash), we'll probably see Lloyd(or Yuri,Velvet or maybe even the 0.001% chance of Alphen) announced in the fall or winter. This would definitely be a smart marketing move for Namco for Arise to be a big success.
I read the interview a few days ago. And indeed, since Namco really try to raise the popularity of the Tales of licence in the West, Smash Bros should have come up in their plan on in their head in some way. The fact that Bandai Namco developped Ultimate could increase the probability.

I still think the fact that Tales of Arise not being on Switch is really bad news for Lloyd, and I would be really surprised if Nintendo have no plan of bringing back Banjo one way or another.

But if Banjo do not have any revival on Nintendo console... Well that means Lloyd's chance will rise from almost zero to really high.

I really don't know how to feel. This unknown in this equation could really change everything.

I still start from the principle that Banjo will have a revival of some sort wich will explain his inclusion in the fighter pass. I don't want to live the Isaac experience once again.

Despite my negativity on Lloyd's chances, I'll still support him and try to relativize. After all, as low as Lloyd's chance may be, there's no such thing as 0% chance.
 
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I read the interview a few days ago. And indeed, since Namco really try to raise the popularity of the Tales of licence in the West, Smash Bros should have come up in their plan on in their head in some way. The fact that Bandai Namco developped Ultimate could increase the probability.

I still think the fact that Tales of Arise not being on Switch is really bad news for Lloyd, and I would be really surprised if Nintendo have no plan of bringing back Banjo one way or another.

But if Banjo do not have any revival on Nintendo console... Well that means Lloyd's chance will rise from almost zero to really high.

I really don't know how to feel. This unknown in this equation could really change everything.

I still start from the principle that Banjo will have a revival of some sort wich will explain his inclusion in the fighter pass. I don't want to live the Isaac experience once again.

Despite my negativity on Lloyd's chances, I'll still support him and try to relativize. After all, as low as Lloyd's chance may be, there's no such thing as 0% chance.
I say don't worry about it I think namco and Koei Tecmo are gonna get something
 
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