The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - LLOYD SURVIVES THE SLAUGHTER!

Nazyrus

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Well guys, we got sega miis back with Joker (since atlus has to do with sega too). I'm guessing we are most likely getting a namco rep, i personally think Tales of is a must, we don't even have spirits of it which is VERY suspicious in my opinion, since Tales of is like Namco's literal final fantasy. I see this place has been dead quiet but I think we should still be hyped for his chances or someone from Tales of at least. At the very least his mii would come back with a new namco rep imo. Namco not having a new character despite being so close involved with this entry of Smash would also look really weird, at least to my eyes lol, not that it has to mean anything really, but you can't deny it would still be weird.
 

Guynamednelson

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Namco not having a new character despite being so close involved with this entry of Smash would also look really weird
It's Namco tradition to ensure their games have references to their other games.

Looking at you, Ridge Racer.
 
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Now that the 5chan leak has taken a major drop in credibility, I think Lloyd is very viable right now, especially since the DLC Mii costumes that came with Joker were the Sega ones cut from Sm4sh (Sega owns Atlus and Joker by extention).
Erdrick is highly speculated, and his release will likely coincide with the Chokobo and Geno costumes from Square Enix.
That gives me a sneaking suspicion that Bandai-Namco will have a DLC character in the first wave to bring back their Mii costumes.
The same logic applies to Capcom.

If this theory is correct, Lloyd really only has Heihachi as competion. But that IS pretty steep competition, and Heihachi was publicly considered for Smash 4 DLC.

But, I now have my Fighters Pass 1 DLC prediction!
1. Joker (duh)
2. Erdrick
3. Heihachi or Lloyd (slight edge to Heihachi)
4. EDIT: Monster Hunter (Was Dante before, but I had a brain fart and forgot that Capcom owns Monster Hunter).
5. Banjo-Kazooie

This brings back all the cut Mii costumes, and my last prediction was between Crash Bandicoot, Banjo-Kazooie, and Ryu Hayabusa.
I chose Banjo because I think that Crash and Spyro will come packed together in either a separate Fighter's Pass or a lone DLC pack like Piranha Plant. I also speculated Ryu because Fatal Frame has an Assist Trophy already, and Ryu is Koei-Tecmo's de facto mascot.
 
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OnyanRings

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Now that the 5chan leak has taken a major drop in credibility, I think Lloyd is very viable right now, especially since the DLC Mii costumes that came with Joker were the Sega ones cut from Sm4sh (Sega owns Atlus and Joker by extention).
Erdrick is highly speculated, and his release will likely coincide with the Chokobo and Geno costumes from Square Enix.
That gives me a sneaking suspicion that Bandai-Namco will have a DLC character in the first wave to bring back their Mii costumes.
The same logic applies to Capcom.

If this theory is correct, Lloyd really only has Heihachi as competion. But that IS pretty steep competition, and Heihachi was publicly considered for Smash 4 DLC.

But, I now have my Fighters Pass 1 DLC prediction!
1. Joker (duh)
2. Erdrick
3. Heihachi or Lloyd (slight edge to Heihachi)
4. Dante from Devil May Cry (not even memeing)
5. Banjo-Kazooie

This brings back all the cut Mii costumes, and my last prediction was between Crash Bandicoot, Banjo-Kazooie, and Ryu Hayabusa.
I chose Banjo because I think that Crash and Spyro will come packed together in either a separate Fighter's Pass or a lone DLC pack like Piranha Plant. I also speculated Ryu because Fatal Frame has an Assist Trophy already, and Ryu is Koei-Tecmo's de facto mascot.
Seems like a good prediction !
I'd personally love the "company" theory to be true.

1. SEGA : Joker (Mii costumes : P3&P4 + Tails & Knuckles)
2. Square Enix : Erdrick (Mii costumes : Slime Hat & Other DQ protag + Chocobo hat & Geno)
3. Bandai-Namco : Lloyd Irving (Mii costumes : KOS-MOS & Yuri Lowell+ Heihachi & Gilgamesh)
4. Capcom : Jill Valentine/Phoenix Wright (Mii costumes : Dante & Viewtful Joe + MH & Mega man outfits)
5. Microsoft : Banjo & Kazooie (Mii costumes : Steve head + Master Chief)
 

frozolloyd

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I agree 100 percent with what everyone is saying. I think a Bandai Namco rep is almost a given for this DLC pass. Even back when the game was released, I found it weird in Pac man's taunts every major franchise including Tekken was being represented EXCEPT the tales series. This theory that the companies missing mii costumes are getting more reps would make a lot sense to me. My personal predictions for the rest of the DLC pass.
Challenger pack 2: Square Enix- Erdrick (I don't much about the Dragon Quest series so I can't say much.) (predicting he will be shown off at the Nintendo e3)
Challenger pack 3: Microsoft-Banjo and Kazooie (cuphead, steve?, and master chief costumes) (predicting they will be shown off in the Microsoft conference)
Challenger pack 4: Bandai Namco: Lloyd Irving (Yuri Lowell from Vesperia, Luke from Abyss, and/or Cless from Phantasia as costumes, as well as the other Bandai Namco costume not in the game. I'm also predicting an Emil and Kratos mii costume to rep Symphonia as well, even though I know people REALLY don't like Emil)(This will be shown off in a fall direct)
Challenger pack 5: Capcom- Resident evil rep, no preference (Various protagonists from the Resident evil series, as well as all costumes not in the game already) (Will be shown off either at the game awards or a Winter direct of some kind.)

One another note, something occurred to me this morning. If the Tales series gets the same treatment as Persona, we may be getting songs from other tales games as well, not just Tales of Symphonia. What are some songs you guys are hoping they might add from the other tales games? I personally hope they add Meaning of Birth and Karma from Abyss and Fury Sparks from Vesperia. Also hoping Wilderness of Sadness from Symphonia 2 makes it as well.
 

Mudkip97

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Now that the 5chan leak has taken a major drop in credibility, I think Lloyd is very viable right now, especially since the DLC Mii costumes that came with Joker were the Sega ones cut from Sm4sh (Sega owns Atlus and Joker by extention).
Erdrick is highly speculated, and his release will likely coincide with the Chokobo and Geno costumes from Square Enix.
That gives me a sneaking suspicion that Bandai-Namco will have a DLC character in the first wave to bring back their Mii costumes.
The same logic applies to Capcom.

If this theory is correct, Lloyd really only has Heihachi as competion. But that IS pretty steep competition, and Heihachi was publicly considered for Smash 4 DLC.

But, I now have my Fighters Pass 1 DLC prediction!
1. Joker (duh)
2. Erdrick
3. Heihachi or Lloyd (slight edge to Heihachi)
4. Dante from Devil May Cry (not even memeing)
5. Banjo-Kazooie

This brings back all the cut Mii costumes, and my last prediction was between Crash Bandicoot, Banjo-Kazooie, and Ryu Hayabusa.
I chose Banjo because I think that Crash and Spyro will come packed together in either a separate Fighter's Pass or a lone DLC pack like Piranha Plant. I also speculated Ryu because Fatal Frame has an Assist Trophy already, and Ryu is Koei-Tecmo's de facto mascot.

Personally I agree with all of this except for Dante. While I never played DMC and would still find it interesting, the creator recently said the only way it's happening is if Capcom decides to finally ports/makes a DMC game on a Nintendo console. Judging by the recent statement I feel he's not happening due to all the DLC fighters already being decided.

My predictions are however (in no particular order):
1-Joker
2-Erdrick
3-Lloyd Irving
4-Ryu Hayabusa
5-Banjo
 
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UPDATE: I'm stupid. Replace Dante in my last post with Monster Hunter. I totally forgot that Capcom owns Monster Hunter.
 
D

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What makes Lloyd so much more discussed than another potential Tales character?
I will say that I'm not too familiar with the series (currently I've only played partway through Vesperia, however I plan on playing more games in the series) so this is from a place of genuine curiosity. Is it something about him in particular that stands out?
 
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What makes Lloyd so much more discussed than another potential Tales character?
I will say that I'm not too familiar with the series (currently I've only played partway through Vesperia, however I plan on playing more games in the series) so this is from a place of genuine curiosity. Is it something about him in particular that stands out?
He's the Cloud / Pokemon Trainer Red / Erdrick / Marth / Shulk / you get the point of the Tales series.
These series have multiple protagonists, but one is the clear favorite.
 
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D

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He's the Cloud / Pokemon Trainer Red / Erdrick / Marth / Shulk / you get the point of the Tales series.
These series have multiple protagonists, but one is the clear favorite.
So the one whose popularity transcends its fanbase?
That makes sense. Would it be considered the favorite within the core fanbase as well?
(Like, think of how FFVII is the most well known game in the series but many people in the core FF fanbase prefer FFVI over it)
 

frozolloyd

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What makes Lloyd so much more discussed than another potential Tales character?
I will say that I'm not too familiar with the series (currently I've only played partway through Vesperia, however I plan on playing more games in the series) so this is from a place of genuine curiosity. Is it something about him in particular that stands out?
Sorry for the long write up.
So to follow up with what was said earlier, the main reason is because Symphonia was like final fantasy VII to series because this was the entry that essentially put the series on the map in the west. The game went from a series that was essentially Japan only (heck, we still haven't gotten certain titles that were japan only) to a series that got regular western releases. It says more then I ever could that Symphonia is STILL the best selling tales game in the west, which was confirmed by a director in the Tales team unless Zesteria and Beseria beat it, even though the game was released in 2003.

As for why it is talked about a ton more, there is a lot of things that push people to believe Sakurai (who still has the final say) would pick Lloyd over anyone else. First, in an interview Sakurai has outright said when choosing the tales rep to get a mii costume " I really think it has to be Lloyd here", meaning Lloyd we know is at least on his map compared to other protagonists. Second, out of all the tales characters that would be considered, Lloyd definitely has the most history with Nintendo, having his best selling game be a Gamecube exclusive for a time and the sequel to the game also being a Wii exclusive. This is the main reason he gets mentioned a lot, as he is the safe Nintendo pick, that would logically make the most sense for a lot of people. Finally, as I mentioned earlier, Symphonia is still the best selling Tales game in the west, which means he probably also the most global appeal, which I personally think is pretty important for a game like Smash bros.

Within the core fanbase, things get muddied up. Like a lot of fandoms, the East and the West don't always agree with what the most popular character/title is. While symphonia was really popular in the west and Lloyd himself is loved by the western fanbase, the most popular game in Japan is probably Tales of Destiny and the most popular character is either Leon from Destiny or Yuri from Vesperia. That is why Yuri often gets mentioned on Smashboards, as he is extremely popular in Japan. Do I personally think popularity within the fandom gets considered when choosing a fighter to represent a series? No, as Joker himself is less popular then the P3 and P4 protagonist(Online poll Atlus did for persona Q2), but it is possible they might consider it. Personally, I'll be happy if we get any Tales character, but I have my fingers crossed for Lloyd.
 
D

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Sorry for the long write up.
So to follow up with what was said earlier, the main reason is because Symphonia was like final fantasy VII to series because this was the entry that essentially put the series on the map in the west. The game went from a series that was essentially Japan only (heck, we still haven't gotten certain titles that were japan only) to a series that got regular western releases. It says more then I ever could that Symphonia is STILL the best selling tales game in the west, which was confirmed by a director in the Tales team unless Zesteria and Beseria beat it, even though the game was released in 2003.

As for why it is talked about a ton more, there is a lot of things that push people to believe Sakurai (who still has the final say) would pick Lloyd over anyone else. First, in an interview Sakurai has outright said when choosing the tales rep to get a mii costume " I really think it has to be Lloyd here", meaning Lloyd we know is at least on his map compared to other protagonists. Second, out of all the tales characters that would be considered, Lloyd definitely has the most history with Nintendo, having his best selling game be a Gamecube exclusive for a time and the sequel to the game also being a Wii exclusive. This is the main reason he gets mentioned a lot, as he is the safe Nintendo pick, that would logically make the most sense for a lot of people. Finally, as I mentioned earlier, Symphonia is still the best selling Tales game in the west, which means he probably also the most global appeal, which I personally think is pretty important for a game like Smash bros.

Within the core fanbase, things get muddied up. Like a lot of fandoms, the East and the West don't always agree with what the most popular character/title is. While symphonia was really popular in the west and Lloyd himself is loved by the western fanbase, the most popular game in Japan is probably Tales of Destiny and the most popular character is either Leon from Destiny or Yuri from Vesperia. That is why Yuri often gets mentioned on Smashboards, as he is extremely popular in Japan. Do I personally think popularity within the fandom gets considered when choosing a fighter to represent a series? No, as Joker himself is less popular then the P3 and P4 protagonist(Online poll Atlus did for persona Q2), but it is possible they might consider it. Personally, I'll be happy if we get any Tales character, but I have my fingers crossed for Lloyd.
No need to apoligize, I appreciate the detailed answer.
For a series like this with split popularity across the world it is a bit of an odd case but I can grasp why Lloyd is seen as the likely choice in do many eyes.
 
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The way I see it at this point it’s a toss up between a tales rep (Lloyd or yuri) or a tekken rep (heihachi or yoshimitsu to cross of soul caliber and tekken) Needless to say I’m hoping it’s our boy!
 
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The way I see it at this point it’s a toss up between a tales rep (Lloyd or yuri) or a tekken rep (heihachi or yoshimitsu to cross of soul caliber and tekken) Needless to say I’m hoping it’s our boy!
Personally, I want both. Bandai-Namco is low on reps. Sega has 3. Konami has 3. Capcom has 3. Square Enix will likely soon have 2.
I think the most most likely Bandai-Namco reps in order are:
1. Heihachi
2. Lloyd
3. Agumon (Bandai's side)
4. Ms. Pac-Man (Why weren't she, Proto Man, and Shadow the Hedgehog Echoes from the start?)
5. Jin
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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Ms. Pac-Man would be an all new characters if she was in as an Echo, so she could happen. Just not among the Fighter's Pass specifically, as that's non-Echoes.

Never mind that we can easily get characters from current franchises. The only thing clear was "they won't be veterans". Everything else is opinion of what he meant overall by how new they are. By virtue of not being playable, any new characters, no matter what franchise they are, counts as a "new character" when it comes to Smash. We could easily get another Pokemon, and it'd still be new by the way Reggie said it. I wouldn't put too much stock into the idea it'll solely be new franchises. Of course, it's possible by all means, but we don't have enough evidence to back up that claim. Especially since our first DLC is a Mario character, with only our second one being a Persona character. And he was referring to DLC in general, not entirely the Fighter's Pass, so that says a lot alone.
 
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I think she could work as an echo fighter. Just swap out the fruits for the ones in her game and have them function differently.
My thoughts exactly.
There'd be more difference between Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man than between Peach and Daisy / Simon and Richter, as the Bonus Fruits in the games are completely different, and the fruits that are exclusive to Ms. Pac-Man would logically do different things.
 

OnyanRings

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Personally, I want both. Bandai-Namco is low on reps. Sega has 3. Konami has 3. Capcom has 3. Square Enix will likely soon have 2.
I think the most most likely Bandai-Namco reps in order are:
1. Heihachi
2. Lloyd
3. Agumon (Bandai's side)
4. Ms. Pac-Man (Why weren't she, Proto Man, and Shadow the Hedgehog Echoes from the start?)
5. Jin
I feel like a lot of people are sleeping on KOS-MOS's chances.
She seems to be the go-to Bamco character when it comes to crossovers.
 

Ypsen

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I dunno why, but in opposition to all of you, the Mii theory made me very pessismistic about Lloyd's chance.
I feel like it's a hint of the reason why Lloyd's Mii didn't come back it's because he will be bring back along with a future DLC...
I have no arguments though, just a bad feeling. Maybe the case of Isaac convinced that having hope is a bad commitment.

On a side note, I don't really think that Heihachi is a strong threat to Lloyd.
Sakurai explicitly said he was too complex to develop, and that Ryu was still a better choice to represent classic Versus fighting game. And the fact that Heihachi is represented as a Namco icon in Pac Man's taunt seems to lead to the fact that he won't be represent in another way (especially a playable fighter).
 
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OnyanRings

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I dunno why, but in opposition to all of you, the Mii theory made me very pessismistic about Lloyd's chance.
I feel like it's a hint of the reason why Lloyd's Mii didn't come back it's because he will be bring back along with a future DLC...
I have no arguments though, just a bad feeling. Maybe the case of Isaac convinced that having hope is a bad commitment.

On a side note, I don't really think that Heihachi is a strong threat to Lloyd.
Sakurai explicitly said he was too complex to develop, and that Ryu was still a better choice to represent classic Versus fighting game. And the fact that Heihachi is represented as a Namco icon in Pac Man's taunt seems to lead to the fact that he won't be represent in another way (especially a playable fighter).
Ohhh you're so right about the mii costume thing... But who would be the Bamco rep then If Heihachi is out of the running ? Kos-Mos ? Klonoa ?
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Ohhh you're so right about the mii costume thing... But who would be the Bamco rep then If Heihachi is out of the running ? Kos-Mos ? Klonoa ?
Agumon, Nightmare, Kos-Mos(I forgot about her), Klonoa, and Yuri Lowell all are respectively good choices. Especially if Lloyd and Heihachi are out. Maybe Yoshimitsu if they want him to be a combination of Soul Calibur and Tekken.
 

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I dunno why, but in opposition to all of you, the Mii theory made me very pessismistic about Lloyd's chance.
I feel like it's a hint of the reason why Lloyd's Mii didn't come back it's because he will be bring back along with a future DLC...
I have no arguments though, just a bad feeling. Maybe the case of Isaac convinced that having hope is a bad commitment.

On a side note, I don't really think that Heihachi is a strong threat to Lloyd.
Sakurai explicitly said he was too complex to develop, and that Ryu was still a better choice to represent classic Versus fighting game. And the fact that Heihachi is represented as a Namco icon in Pac Man's taunt seems to lead to the fact that he won't be represent in another way (especially a playable fighter).
It makes me pessimistic too. I really want him (or Yuri, or any Tales rep for that matter).
 

Icedragonadam

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As long as Tales gets a playable character I'll be happy.
 
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I dunno why, but in opposition to all of you, the Mii theory made me very pessismistic about Lloyd's chance.
I feel like it's a hint of the reason why Lloyd's Mii didn't come back it's because he will be bring back along with a future DLC...
I have no arguments though, just a bad feeling. Maybe the case of Isaac convinced that having hope is a bad commitment.

On a side note, I don't really think that Heihachi is a strong threat to Lloyd.
Sakurai explicitly said he was too complex to develop, and that Ryu was still a better choice to represent classic Versus fighting game. And the fact that Heihachi is represented as a Namco icon in Pac Man's taunt seems to lead to the fact that he won't be represent in another way (especially a playable fighter).
Chrom.
 

frozolloyd

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Yo thought I would post this here. The poll that was being conducted by Smash Bros Ultimate News just got released.
https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1125204020774285312
Our boy got 21st overall in the poll, which for a series that is pretty small compared to all other contenders is pretty dang good!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12Xwag9HkqpWEgbHxR_C7wcxC_pqjS28XWjtMJtaFQ9M/edit#gid=0
I think it is also pretty notable that he seemed to be the most popular Bandai Namco rep in this poll, with the next nearest Bandai Namco rep being Kloana at 53rd, and Agumon at 55th. Surprisingly, Heiachi was 67th overall, which seemed really strange to me. Either way, not bad at all for Lloyd. Here's to hoping for him to be a DLC character!
 

CHOVI

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Yo thought I would post this here. The poll that was being conducted by Smash Bros Ultimate News just got released.
https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1125204020774285312
Our boy got 21st overall in the poll, which for a series that is pretty small compared to all other contenders is pretty dang good!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12Xwag9HkqpWEgbHxR_C7wcxC_pqjS28XWjtMJtaFQ9M/edit#gid=0
I think it is also pretty notable that he seemed to be the most popular Bandai Namco rep in this poll, with the next nearest Bandai Namco rep being Kloana at 53rd, and Agumon at 55th. Surprisingly, Heiachi was 67th overall, which seemed really strange to me. Either way, not bad at all for Lloyd. Here's to hoping for him to be a DLC character!
I’m mad that a generic shounen protagonist like Rex beat Lloyd
 

Graizen

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Yo thought I would post this here. The poll that was being conducted by Smash Bros Ultimate News just got released.
https://twitter.com/SSBUNews/status/1125204020774285312
Our boy got 21st overall in the poll, which for a series that is pretty small compared to all other contenders is pretty dang good!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12Xwag9HkqpWEgbHxR_C7wcxC_pqjS28XWjtMJtaFQ9M/edit#gid=0
I think it is also pretty notable that he seemed to be the most popular Bandai Namco rep in this poll, with the next nearest Bandai Namco rep being Kloana at 53rd, and Agumon at 55th. Surprisingly, Heiachi was 67th overall, which seemed really strange to me. Either way, not bad at all for Lloyd. Here's to hoping for him to be a DLC character!
Good! I like this!
 

OnyanRings

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KoopaSaki

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Hey boys I am just chiming in from the Isaac thread and wanted to give you my regards with this statement: I am going to feature Llyod Irving in this upcoming animation project I am doing for the smash fanbase where he is one of many characters auditioning for dlc! If anyone has any suggestions for how Llyod irving would audition for his chance, I could use some ideas. Its still in the writing stages.
 

andree123

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Oh dear god, the new pics of a new Tales game are leaked, it looks like a crossover between Tales and Monster Hunter.
I was hoping that the Tales team would followed Kill La Kill IF's style and animation, but we got this.

EDIT: Here is Sabi's tweet of possibly leaked info about this new game.
 
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I wonder what's caused such a large silence with Lloyd's fanbase? He's just as likely as he used to be quite some time ago, having very good chances compared to most other Bamco characters.

Anyway... I was thinking about how culturally important of a game Symphonia is. Its themes and many characters within it are just as important as it was in 2003, heck, maybe even more so than back then. It's something that'd be better off on Twitter though.

Hm... how could we incorporate the EX Gem system, and by extension Strike and Technical Techs/Artes into Lloyd's moveset? A Shield Special like the Inklings?
 

andree123

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I wonder what's caused such a large silence with Lloyd's fanbase?
There is a lack of leaks or rumors about a Namco character coming as a DLC fighter in smash which suggests that DLC4 (and very likely DLC5) is not in the works until DLC2 and DLC3 are close to completion, this is why we got leaks of the next two DLC fighters (one of which is a SE fighter (very likely to be Erdrick from DQIII), and most recently Banjo and Kazooie).

Also, more screenshots of this leaked Tales game.
 
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