The Debate Hall Social Thread

[Nicholas1024]

Woah, there. I was just criticizing the "Let's find the answer first, then try to apply it to every question second" philosophy of politics that seems to be so common. As if your entire political views have to fit on a bumper sticker. That's silly. Neither "Government is bad, keep it out" nor "Government is a useful tool to solve social problems" is an adequate answer to every problem. Why should expect it to be?

Ron Paul tends to be like a real live Stephen Colbert. He's a caricature of the premise of small government. He is what you get when you take it to an extreme, and by comparison makes the rest of them look bad. That's why the republican establishment (especially Fox News) has a concerted and deliberate campaign to marginalize him.

I think that it's an excellent guiding principle to, when all else is equal, not involve government. But don't put too much stock in guiding principles. Evaluate issues as they stand on their own merits.

Yeah, I took you out of context there, I'm sorry. I guess I'm just used to everyone being an idiot on that topic, and drew my conclusions accordingly.

@Succumbio
If the average person is really that dumb, I can finally understand how certain presidents got elected...

And regarding Ron Paul, I think it sums up to "Our government is too stupid to do a proper job of anything, and will only make things worse, so let's stay out of it." And in case you're wondering, what we did do helped prop Stalin up. (who by the body count was WORSE than Hitler), cost tons of American lives, and by dropping nukes on Japan, ensured we'd have decades of uncertainty and tension via the Cold War. (And if you want to say Japan started it with Pearl Harbor, keep in mind that before that FDR had basically left all our defenses on the pacific wide open, fired one admiral for complaining about it, provoked the Japanese via stuff like cutting off trade, and finally disgracing the replacement Admiral who happened to be in charge of the place when it did get bombed.) Considering the track record we're dealing with here, I'd think you could understand his position, even if you don't agree.

@BPC
Honestly, I still think stores that accept black business would have a much larger number of customers (simply by lack of other options), and thus outperform their competitors. Even back then, if white and blacks stood on legally equal footing (Don't really know if that was the case or not), I trust the minority to be smart enough to open their own stores and compete.

And the Fed might not be directly government operated, but it's only by special government allowances that they aren't hauled before the courts and convicted for counterfeiting. So in the end it's more or less the same thing, without the government being involved, the whole scenario would never happen.

 

[Aesir]

Or you know you just make it illegal to discriminate and get the same effect much faster, and tell the bigots they're bigots.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

I'm always rather annoyed at the "The government is needed to stop corrupt corporations" angle, because quite frankly, they do the opposite. Using the (large? Sometimes I wonder...) assumption that not quite everybody is an absolute moron, if a corporation is being dishonest, the people will instead do business with an honest competitor, thus leading to the dishonest one (same with incompetent ones) to go out of business. Now construct a sentence involving the words "government", "bailout", and "failing business"..

You've got to understand that monopolies happen and that large companies have economies of scale and crowd out small competitors. What if they're doing price fixing? Without government regulations to prevent this kind of thing you don't have any authority that's able to stop that.

I also think that that enabling people to be discriminated based solely upon their skin colour infringes upon their rights. Their right to be treated fairly.

 

[AltF4]

Moved the last few posts here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=316707

 

[Aesir]

So I'm reading through reddit this morning and run into this.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co...to_mandatory_immunization_of_children/c3fqvla

I can't help but think with a name like "krugmanisapuppet" there might be some bias in his beliefs. However I find it peculiar he talks about "unqualified" people talking about this when it's apparent he's probably talking out of his *** with his aggressive response.

anyway I'm sure GoldShadow will probably see this and explain to me why he's wrong blah blah.

 

[AltF4]

Aesir, people like that make such idiotic points like:

Fun fact: human civilization existed for a good 8,000 years without mandatory vaccinations

Of course civilization has existed for that long (and indeed longer) without any kind of medicine as we would recognize it now. Mandatory vaccinations are not supposed to prevent the destruction of all of humanity. They're supposed to prevent unneccessary death and suffering.

Also a "fun fact" is that people historically used to commonly die in their 30's and 40's. Modern medicine (vaccinations being just one example) are what changed that.

 

[Aesir]

I know I wanted to share it with you guys because of how bad it was.

have you read the whole thing alt? because it's pretty funny how he's being called out and just ignores it with "lalalalalalalalalala" LOL. What makes this so bad is that he probably votes. =(

 

[ciaza]

+1 to Elvenking.

I totes stalked his profile and he posted in the PG back in 2009.

You might not have heard of him because he might not go to tourneys.

I'm guessing you know Aerodome, Toki, Scoot, Leisha, Jezmo and R4ven? They're some of the people I brawl on wifi. There's other too but I couldn't be bothered mentioning all of them.

Lol is anyone in the Debate Hall actually a high level player in any of the games?

I know half the DH is in the 64BR, and spend half their time *****ing about us.

i know of them, i've probably met some of them too, though i would only be able to recognise leisha (for the obvious reason). aa is driving some of us up to summer smash - a qld tourney - soon so hopefully i'll get to know the aus scene a bit better. you should attend some of the tourneys in/near sydney. i went to a wollongong one last time and had a great time even though i suck at both melee and brawl.

i'd consider myself a high level player in 64, though living in an isolated countrinent makes it hard to prove as such =D

(i figured it would be best to reply to you here, its been pointed out to me that i derail threads quickly and am trying to work against that )

 

[Dre89]

There's a tourney in the Gong next week but I've got something on that day.

Even so, that's a long way to travel considering I haven't met any of them. I'd only do it if I caught the train with them or got a lift with them.

I'm thinking about playing S64, I've got 64k with a controller so there's no excuse not to. Only problem is I'd want to main Luigi, who is not only crap but probably hard to get used to because of his floatiness.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

My girlfriend claims to be talking to her dead friend. Not sure how I should take this.

 

[Dre89]

I wouldn't say anything to her until she stops doing and is less sensitive about the issue.

If she asks you whether you believe her, just say you can't make any judgement.

Safety first with teh womanz.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I jokingly told her that I thought she was nuts now, but that I'm glad it made her feel better. It's a long-distance thing, and she's been in a real rut right now – in and out of state care, cutting herself, bulimia, skipping school... Ugh. Anything that makes her feel better and more in control is a godsend right now.

 

[ciaza]

There's a tourney in the Gong next week but I've got something on that day.

Even so, that's a long way to travel considering I haven't met any of them. I'd only do it if I caught the train with them or got a lift with them.

I'm thinking about playing S64, I've got 64k with a controller so there's no excuse not to. Only problem is I'd want to main Luigi, who is not only crap but probably hard to get used to because of his floatiness.

that's fair enough, i think shaya or someone normally drives peeps down or organises train trips.

it's always good to have new 64 players, you should get your girlfriend in on it too i reckon, as it can be very tough to get good when you are not constantly competing with someone around your own skill level (most people i've seen who come on without someone else get demolished too easily and don't have fun so they quit).

luigi... you're exactly right he is very floaty and so most people don't find him very fun... then again i guess you are a brawl player so floatiness is yo thang =p

 

[rvkevin]

@BPC, this would probably be of interest to you. It's basically about his personal story and how society should view mental disorders like any other physical disorder.

 

[Dre89]

Ciaza- I don't have a gf anymore, I'm
a lone wolf now.

I could get my cousin Jaswa to play it, I'm usually good at persuading him to do things.

I'm really only a 'brawl player' because I only got interested in the competitive aspect in 09, and I no longer owned Melee at that point.

Although 64 seems way too tech skill based for me. I have crap tech skill and don't feel like putting too much time into practicing tech skills.

I just prefer gimmicky tricks like fast falling KOing uairs on opponents next to me, or conditioning dodges and punishing them with laggy KO moves.

I'm used to maining low tiers so that doesn't bother me. But it seems that in 64 low tiers can still wreck high tiers if the player was better, as Isai's low tiers would still destroy most people's high tiers.

 

[asianaussie]

im tagging in

64 requires almost no techskill in the physical sense unless you consider short hops difficult (though the controller is a bit hard to get used to) or you decide to play fox/yoshi to their full potential

play for one month on and off while focusing on z-cancelling (pressing z whenever you use an aerial and are about to hit the ground), once that's instinct the first and only major techskill barrier is gone

luigi seems like he can punish stuff but he really can't once your opponent figures you out even slightly: he's too slow on the horizontal plane - a character you might like would be jigglypuff, low tier, easily wrecks high tiers if they approach properly...no laggy KO moves though

64 in general has basically no 'laggy' moves aside from like, falcon punch

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

@BPC, this would probably be of interest to you. It's basically about his personal story and how society should view mental disorders like any other physical disorder.

This reminds me of A Beautiful Mind. Just remember, that when you're crazy, it's not really you're fault. And also, when you're crazy, you usually don't think that you're crazy.

@Dre.

I'm sorry about that man. Everything's all okay now right? (If you wish to talk in private, PM me. A while ago, I broke up with my ex and I know that it can be quite painful)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

64 seems hard to me, but I try to play it on a macbook keyboard, which can't tell if I'm going for an ftilt or a dash attack, soooo....

 

[Nicholas1024]

I could get my cousin Jaswa to play it, I'm usually good at persuading him to do things.

Wait a sec, Jaswa's your cousin? I had no idea. So, do you debate philosophy with him IRL?

 

[rvkevin]

I tried playing 64 after months of Brawl...shield stun; so unbearable. Two completely different game dynamics.

 

[Dre89]

Before I answer everyone I have a random question.

Whever I talk to God I get this euphoric feeling come over my body. I only get it when I talk to him, or when I think I need to talk to him more.

Now a lot of people would jump to the conclusion that it's God doing it, but I'm not so hasty. Being a dreist I'm certainly open to that possibility, but I also suspect it could be my subconsious mind pulling a trick on me. It could be my mind simply rewarding me for having the thought of God, to encourage me to have it more, sort of as a psychological ploy to give me comfort and security, seeing as we all know that's the benefit of being religious.

So what I'm asking is does anyone know about this sort of behaviour? I'm just wondering if it's a common mental action observed in psychology.

im tagging in

64 requires almost no techskill in the physical sense unless you consider short hops difficult (though the controller is a bit hard to get used to) or you decide to play fox/yoshi to their full potential

play for one month on and off while focusing on z-cancelling (pressing z whenever you use an aerial and are about to hit the ground), once that's instinct the first and only major techskill barrier is gone

luigi seems like he can punish stuff but he really can't once your opponent figures you out even slightly: he's too slow on the horizontal plane - a character you might like would be jigglypuff, low tier, easily wrecks high tiers if they approach properly...no laggy KO moves though

64 in general has basically no 'laggy' moves aside from like, falcon punch

Short hops are meant to be a lot harder in 64 and melee than in brawl correct?

In terms of character viablility, the way I see it is that I don't care how viable the character is because I'll probably never place in tourneys anyway. I care more about getting good with that character than winning. I'd only tier ***** if I was a high level player with a legitimate chance of placing if I mained a high tier. I just don't really see the piont of tier whoring if you're not going to place, unless you really enjoy the character.

Bob- Thanks but we broke up months ago. It's all good in the hood.

Nic- Yeah I was the one who got him into philosophy. He admitted I made him question his beliefs, but that's what makes him a more intelligent Prot than most of those around him. I reckon I can eventually convert him, not necessarily to dreism but just away from Protestantism. I'm only trying to do that because I think he's intelligent enough to listen to opposing arguments and could benefit from being free from religion.

I might try and get him back on these boards actually. He started debated on some Calvinist versus Arminian theology board. Personally I think that's incredibly pointless.

 

[ciaza]

looks like the dreism sensation will be sweeping the nation

on 64 - i'm not amazing at melee but i have a solid grasp of it, and i can definitely say short hops are equally as "hard" to do in both games (brawl too, from what little i've played of it). all you have to do is tap the c button fast and you'll have it down.

i can understand where you're coming from for sure, the best advice anyone will give you is just to play who you like and eventually they'll become your best character, and will often give you the best shot of winning. however, often this gets muddled because a lot of the time people only have fun playing a character who they stand a shot at winning with. luigi often gets rolled pretty hard because he is both low tier and has a very high learning curve.

besides, i think jigglypuff would be good for you as she has a lot of gimmicky stuff like duck > rest, teleport>sing, or using rest as a laggy ko move you were talking about after you out-spaced and conditioned your opponent. it's not a laggy ko move per se, but the ending lag to the move is obviously long and punishable arguably making it as hilarious if you did hit it. but by all means play luigi if you want, as long as you have fun is the important thing, and like you said if you don't care about doing well at tourney's who cares?

 

[Dre89]

I was told short hopping is much easier in brawl.

I might try Jiggs out, although I prefer to pick chars on fanboyism (although I did play her a little bit in brawl). Is she low tier simply because DI ruins everything good she can do?

 

[asianaussie]

our tiers are matchups based, mainly

jiggs has ok matchups vs the majority of high tiers but has relatively bad ones vs characters lower than her - for instance, samus, who most consider worst-in-game, has an even or perhaps advantageous matchup against her, link has a flat out strong advantage against her on counterpick and luigi kills her from any number of moves - these three are generally considered bottom tier

DI at a human level doesn't really wreck anybody that badly, all you have to do is turn around or follow the direction they DI - jiggs is actually really good for learning this, her floatiness, good horizontal airspeed and long d-air give her an easy time following DI in either direction

I tried playing 64 after months of Brawl...shield stun; so unbearable. Two completely different game dynamics.

i would counter by saying that brawl's near lack of shieldstun makes me uncomfortable

two completely different games, once you get past the superficial similarities it's hard to believe they're really linked to one another

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Ah, the N64 Shield: AKA the thing that you never, EVER use against a DJC character. ^_^

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Before I answer everyone I have a random question.

Whever I talk to God I get this euphoric feeling come over my body. I only get it when I talk to him, or when I think I need to talk to him more.

Now a lot of people would jump to the conclusion that it's God doing it, but I'm not so hasty. Being a dreist I'm certainly open to that possibility, but I also suspect it could be my subconsious mind pulling a trick on me. It could be my mind simply rewarding me for having the thought of God, to encourage me to have it more, sort of as a psychological ploy to give me comfort and security, seeing as we all know that's the benefit of being religious.

So what I'm asking is does anyone know about this sort of behaviour? I'm just wondering if it's a common mental action observed in psychology.

Yeah, look with this, I'm inclined to say that you're probably playing games with yourself. Feeling good about praying probably has something to do with the fact that it sounds relaxing, and it gives you time to collect your thoughts and so forth. This phenomenon is similar to some people's reaction to meditation, which typically is that it makes you feel really good.

 

[Aesir]

I usually don't say this however I talk to myself a lot, like I will have conversations within my own head. (might have something to do with the fact that I tend to lack a outside source to talk about things that bother me.) Anyway, I do that and I really analyze the problem lot of the time I don't like the conclusions I come up with, but I go with it. Moral of the story, afterwards I feel pretty good and feel I really made some progress.

Basically Praying is just another way of analyzing, at least that's how I look at it.

also for dre, I'm sure he'll enjoy reading this. http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/oieat/alan_shore_tells_it_like_it_is/c3hkxcj I'll give you guys a dollar if you guess who I am.

 

[Dre89]

You're the Jesus one. Give me my dollar.

Also talking to myself is a lot different to talking to God for me. I talk to myself a lot, because I don't talk to anyone else, and I just spiral out and and strain my mind. They're different experiences.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Also talking to myself is a lot different to talking to God for me. I talk to myself a lot, because I don't talk to anyone else, and I just spiral out and and strain my mind. They're different experiences.

Like I said, it's probably very similar to meditation. The introspection and relative peace that you gain is probably quite a strong feeling.

 

[Dre89]

But I've tried meditating before and it's a different sensation. Meditation just relaxes you and enhances your focus.

With this thing I was still the same, yet have a euphoric feeling sweep over my body.

If it was like meditation I would get the feeling for most positive thoughts in my mind, but it's specific to God. That's why I suspect it's my mind trying to encourage something that's benefitial for my mental health, or it's just actually God.

 

[blazedaces]

But I've tried meditating before and it's a different sensation. Meditation just relaxes you and enhances your focus.

With this thing I was still the same, yet have a euphoric feeling sweep over my body.

If it was like meditation I would get the feeling for most positive thoughts in my mind, but it's specific to God. That's why I suspect it's my mind trying to encourage something that's benefitial for my mental health, or it's just actually God.

To you are those two things not closely related? Just curious.

-blazed

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think he's saying that talking to God gives something extra. While meditation relaxes you and gives you focus, he's saying praying also gives him a sense of joy/happiness.

Personally, as a Christian I believe it's likely God giving you said feeling, but you can't rule out it being a placebo effect

 

[AltF4]

Especially when you consider the fact that everyone of every mutualy exclusive religion has claimed the same thing.

 

[Dre89]

I don't like to call it praying, because that makes it sound more structured and religious. I just talk to him as another person who knows everything about me.

Especially when you consider the fact that everyone of every mutualy exclusive religion has claimed the same thing.

But I'm not claiming it's specific to a certain religion, or that religious people can't experience it. If this is actually God, then I would say this is the point of religions. Although they're false, they give ordinary people a way to access God.

It's not like meditation because I don't get any of the effects meditation gives me. I'm still in a normal state, just I get a euphoric feeling over my body.

An interesting thing though is that one of my old girlfriends used to know what I was praying for her. She'd be up late doing an assignment, and she'd ask me to pray for her before I went to sleep. If I did pray for her, the next morning she'd say she felt it and thank me. One time I didn't pray for her and she was angry at me the next morning because she could tell I didn't. She knew all of this before I told her whether I prayed or not.


You don't know how scary it is when your girlfriend knows what you're doing by yourself when she's not around.

Well at least she seemed to know. I didn't tell anyone else I was praying so it's like someone else could have relayed the information back to her.

I'm desperate to know the answer, because it's obviously a big deal if God is actually communicating with me, and also because if he isn't I want to get this feeling out of my system because I'm in a personal battle with my subconscious mind.

 

[AltF4]

It sure sounds unbecoming of an almighty being to communicate via "warm fuzzy feelings". I can surely think of a more effective method of communicating as important as the meaning of life.

Though now you bring up something which is empirically falsifiable: prayer effects. Can someone really tell if they've been prayed for? That's something you can test and verify. Curious, though, how every attempt to verify these effects have come up negative. If god does communicate through warm fuzzy feelings, he also apparently intentionally miscommunicates at an equal rate, so as to make the overall effects indistinguishable from luck.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

I don't like to call it praying, because that makes it sound more structured and religious. I just talk to him as another person who knows everything about me.

http://www.world-schizophrenia.org/stories/pathtounderstanding.html

 

[Dre89]

Alt- I'm not saying those other cases are true.

If you're not going to say anything specific to my posts then don't bother posting.

It's not as if I'm making an argument from ignorance and saying God did it because there's no other explanation, I'm just open to the idea.

So how do you think she knew when I was praying? Do you think she just guessed correctly a number of times and was correct every single time? I guess that's possible, but it wouldn't make sense for her to gamble on that.

Unless you think I'm lying, in which case there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise, except for the fact that there's no motive for me to lie because I'm not trying to convert people to a religion.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

I never thought you'd be one to use anecdotal evidence.

Let me give it a shot:

Once upon a time i had a friend who told me he saw God and Jesus and they said "yes we are real and everybody should believe us and everything in the bible." so now i believe in god and you should too

 

[Dre89]

I never thought you'd be one to use anecdotal evidence.

Let me give it a shot:

Once upon a time i had a friend who told me he saw God and Jesus and they said "yes we are real and everybody should believe us and everything in the bible." so now i believe in god and you should too

How is that analogy at all relevant?

I never said I believe it, I just said I was open-minded to the possibility.

I didn't come here trying to convert anyone to belief in God, I came here to understand the natural explanations of the phenomena.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

So how do you think she knew when I was praying? Do you think she just guessed correctly a number of times and was correct every single time? I guess that's possible, but it wouldn't make sense for her to gamble on that.

Beats me. Weird things happen. There may not be a rational explanation for it. Sometimes, people are just very good at guessing.

I'll give you an example. After I was made Captain of my soccer team, I guessed the toss correctly, pretty much every time and hence got . I think the record was something like 7 times in a row, excluding one confusion about left and right hands (that time was where I had to guess which hand the ref held the whistle in. I said left, meaning my left, he interpreted it as his left, and the whistle was his right hand) only ending when I didn't actually get to call the toss.

Explanation? I can't think of any. Do I believe in Luck? Not really, aside from the notion that the universe hates me.