Why does it matter if they belief deities exist? not every theist is going out on moral crusades trying to strip down the rights of who ever doesn't agree with them. Many people simple don't care to go out on those crusades but are still believers, I'm arguing if it's not hurting anyone why even bother? Most accept science while still believing in a higher power. You're arguing against me based on the notion that the minority is crazy and should be ridiculed, I just think it's more trouble than it's worth, you don't need to invalidate god to show how ridiculous it is.
That's exactly the point though, what's the gain of worship? Clearly you don't believe in god however for those that do what's the gain?
You are misinterpreting me if you think I’m suggesting that every theist is trying to actively trying to deprive other people of their rights or is waging holy war. I also believe that you do not have to be actively doing those things to cause harm either.
To understand my argument, you have to understand what is a fundamental aspect of human psychology. Humans form beliefs about the world to inform their actions and behavior, and provide basis for the conclusions they will reach or extrapolate to, and further influence other actions and behavior. No belief exists in a vacuum; it affects our thoughts and actions, however subtle or overt, frequently or rarely. Additionally, every belief can feedback into the belief-formulation system and affect what further beliefs come forth.
With that being the case, there is many ways for the consequences of a particular belief to manifest itself. It can manifest itself in the most extreme ways, as you mentioned, with outright violence or war on to anyone who does not agree with them or shares their belief set. These are definitely the most visceral and obvious of the harm that beliefs can bring forth, but you are right in saying that a majority of theists are not violent or murderous people. However, I’m not convinced that a negligible minority of them are either.
Especially these days, with all the power and technology that an individual can harness, there is a multitude of ways in which even a handful of people can cause untold damage and destruction. Whether from dirty nuclear bombs, to biological weapons, or to even financial or electronic attacks. What would happen if a small group of people managed to take down the electrical grid, or purposefully trigger a stock market crash? It’s completely, and unfortunately, feasible in this day and age. In a world where we are more interconnected and affected by other people than ever, would it not pay to be even more vigilant against those beliefs and ideas that can, and reliably have, make even a minority of people wish damage and pain upon others?
Nonetheless, as I said, these are the most extreme and rare examples. There is a great degree of gradation of affects that can be caused by such beliefs that are more subtle and indirect. The spreading of the false idea that condoms don’t help prevent STD or pregnancies has wreaked much havoc upon the African continent, and probably has caused not a negligible amount of harm elsewhere. The idea that the endtimes are upon us, or that a deity watches over and guides a particular nation can lead to caustic and corrosive politics, like I believe it has to an extent in the US, that causes less direct and obvious harm.
For example, how much pain and detriment would the US had been spared if religious institutions weren’t free from being taxed? This figure is undoubtedly nigh impossible to compute, at least for myself, maybe someone out there has the data to figure it out, but nonetheless I can’t imagine, especially in the US’s current economic predicament, that it’s an effect that is coming to any good.
Not to say that no good has ever come out of religious beliefs, or that theists have haven’t done anything else other than harm people and society, directly or indirectly. But the matter of fact is that these religious beliefs have a multitude of effects, exacerbated all the more by the sheer number of people and societies that have them, so for me it is exceedingly hard to see how beliefs are not hurting OR helping people at any particular moment, no matter how far up the causal chain it is. The thing is, whether they intend it to or not, it seems to me that it overall tends to do more harm than good, including the people that aren’t actively trying to fly planes into buildings, the ones who are ostensibly doing no harm.
I’m not trying to be selective here either, at least I hope I’m not and earnestly am trying to work to keep it that way. Every belief is affecting people in both direct and indirect ways, atheistic, theistic, or whatever. It’s just that theistic beliefs seem to be ones that are particularly unbound to the real world, they are unconstrained by things like logic and facts and data, which makes them, I think, inherently capricious and dangerous belief sets, because pretty much anything can follow from them depending on how the people holding them are feeling. Once again, in a world were everything and everyone is so intertwined, it seems to be more a liability than an asset. Especially since it’s been shown that, neurologically, conversing with a deity and repeating the deity’s beliefs is no different than conversing with your self and your own beliefs, it makes me all the more wary of it and I think all the more deserving of being checked and critiqued.
http://www.bradyns-blog.com/2011/06/inyourhead.html
In the end, I do think there is a tangible difference to be made debating the question, and talking it over with people, despite how pointless it may seem on the surface to talk to people who don’t seem to be directly partaking in all that I find wrong with religion, even if at the moment the exact question of a deity’s existence cannot be 100% disproven (which I doubt it ever will). There is a plethora of beliefs and issues that stem from it that really cannot be properly dealt with without addressing that question.
