cisyphus
Smash Ace
For the spreadsheet version of this, follow this link and select the "Down Throw Techchase" Tab at the bottom. Regrabs on rolls are ranked as A, B, C, D, and F to indicate how easily one can do it based on frame windows and requirements of advanced tech. D is usually reserved for rolls that require a boost grab, C a JC grab or boost grab, and A and B dash grab alone suffices. I figured this out a little bit into testing so some of the information is probably wrong at present. I'll fix it later on.
Another aspect of my goal of cataloging every possible aspect of Snake's gameplay so that one can fully master and understand the character at the moveset knowledge level, which translates into proper matchup experience and aides in learning your punish game inside and out. Today I'm announcing the launch of what proves to be one of the most effective punish trees in Snake's arsenal: his down throw pseudo-techchase. Some background info:
1. Down throw puts opponents directly in front of Snake
7. Snake's up-throw is often an extremely good launcher, but certain (floaty) characters escape these combos very early.
8. I'm assuming a 10 frame reaction time to recognize which direction an opponent is rolling. This might be a bit high from the research I've done, but we'll roll with it for now. I'm very precise with everything I've included so it comes down to a matter of adding frames.
So, to elaborate further on these points, here is your basic reactionary techchase coverage tree:
1. Getup Attack, depending on the character, is generally the safest option. Snake is able to crouch under some of these. The rest you will need to shield and punish. (shield DI and powershield will help a lot here!)
2. Roll Away, depending on the character, is the safest option. There are some characters that Snake plainly cannot catch up to on reaction because their techroll is soooo long. Those will be noted below
3. Doing Nothing is a really tricky mixup, but most characters can be punished by f-tilt, which is too fast of a move to be reacted to, and then likely eat a jab reset, u-tilt, or what have you.
4. Stand is another tricky mixup, but can easily be regrabbed if you prepare for it.
5. Roll In can always be covered on reaction, although some characters demand a tighter window than others—those with the long roll away.
Now, the goal here is to continuously get regrabs, as the damage built up and the relative security of getting a regrab is extremely high compared to other techchases. So, your reactions to the above will be:
1. Getup Attack, shield into regrab
2. Roll Away, chase down into regrab, or tranq the roll if it's too fast
3. Doing Nothing, Use the proper reset, C4, etc. (Outlined below on a character-by-character basis)
4. Stand, Regrab on reaction. Every Stand has approximately the same frame data, but I'll note the unique cases. I'll also note the fastest reaction each character has to prevent a regrab.
5. Roll In, Regrab on reaction
So without further ado, here are the character-specific trees to cover these options:
Another aspect of my goal of cataloging every possible aspect of Snake's gameplay so that one can fully master and understand the character at the moveset knowledge level, which translates into proper matchup experience and aides in learning your punish game inside and out. Today I'm announcing the launch of what proves to be one of the most effective punish trees in Snake's arsenal: his down throw pseudo-techchase. Some background info:
1. Down throw puts opponents directly in front of Snake
a. This means that it cannot be DI'd, eliminating the need to wavedash or dashdance to position oneself to punish
2. Down throw eliminates three options that normally must be covered by throwsa. To elaborate, Kirby and Charizard have similar down throws, but the opponent can tech these
3. Down throw does 14% in damage unstaled. That's one of the most damaging throws in the game.i. the ability to tech forces 3 additional options to be covered, the tech in place and two tech roll.
So even without getting a follow-up, that's 14% you get for just grabbing someone
4. Down throw has numerous setups, both stage dependent and not, which create limitations on an opponent's optionsa. Platforms are the #1 best for this, as it limits every character's roll length considerably
b. mines also are great in that it eliminates one roll option somewhat
d. Ledges also limit certain options from the opponent, particularly roll away, making the techchase possible on every stage against every character.
5. Snake is able to manipulate the horizontal position of a grab to ensure that proper spacing is available at all timesb. mines also are great in that it eliminates one roll option somewhat
i. Although one must consider that the mine is the better option, most opponents think otherwise
c. A well-placed C4 can serve much the same function as a mine, but requires remote detonationd. Ledges also limit certain options from the opponent, particularly roll away, making the techchase possible on every stage against every character.
a. This is done through use of the left and right nodes of the D-Pad set to side taunt.
6. Snake's grab reaches very far, and his boost grab is rather good as well, meaning his reach for grabs is applicable in a lot of situations.i. This is the only way to do this!! You MUST have this control configuration
ii. I personally turn off the up and down taunts on my controls to limit bad inputs due to the poor design of the Gamecube controller D-Pad.
ii. I personally turn off the up and down taunts on my controls to limit bad inputs due to the poor design of the Gamecube controller D-Pad.
7. Snake's up-throw is often an extremely good launcher, but certain (floaty) characters escape these combos very early.
8. I'm assuming a 10 frame reaction time to recognize which direction an opponent is rolling. This might be a bit high from the research I've done, but we'll roll with it for now. I'm very precise with everything I've included so it comes down to a matter of adding frames.
So, to elaborate further on these points, here is your basic reactionary techchase coverage tree:
1. Getup Attack, depending on the character, is generally the safest option. Snake is able to crouch under some of these. The rest you will need to shield and punish. (shield DI and powershield will help a lot here!)
2. Roll Away, depending on the character, is the safest option. There are some characters that Snake plainly cannot catch up to on reaction because their techroll is soooo long. Those will be noted below
3. Doing Nothing is a really tricky mixup, but most characters can be punished by f-tilt, which is too fast of a move to be reacted to, and then likely eat a jab reset, u-tilt, or what have you.
4. Stand is another tricky mixup, but can easily be regrabbed if you prepare for it.
5. Roll In can always be covered on reaction, although some characters demand a tighter window than others—those with the long roll away.
Now, the goal here is to continuously get regrabs, as the damage built up and the relative security of getting a regrab is extremely high compared to other techchases. So, your reactions to the above will be:
1. Getup Attack, shield into regrab
2. Roll Away, chase down into regrab, or tranq the roll if it's too fast
3. Doing Nothing, Use the proper reset, C4, etc. (Outlined below on a character-by-character basis)
4. Stand, Regrab on reaction. Every Stand has approximately the same frame data, but I'll note the unique cases. I'll also note the fastest reaction each character has to prevent a regrab.
5. Roll In, Regrab on reaction
So without further ado, here are the character-specific trees to cover these options:
Getup Attack: Hitboxes come out Frame 18-19, who becomes vulnerable frame 25 (25 frame lenience)
Roll Away: Boost Grab grants 1 extra frame of coverage over JC Grab, with 5 and 4 frames respectively.
Doing Nothing: Bowser can be jabbed, f-tilted, and tranq'd, in order of quickness.
Stand: Standard frame data, can upB to get invincibility on frame 1, making this a 7 frame window.
Roll In: Bowser has an extra 8 frames of invincibility on this roll, but you can cover his 8 frames of endlag with turnaround grab.
Roll Away: Boost Grab grants 1 extra frame of coverage over JC Grab, with 5 and 4 frames respectively.
Doing Nothing: Bowser can be jabbed, f-tilted, and tranq'd, in order of quickness.
Stand: Standard frame data, can upB to get invincibility on frame 1, making this a 7 frame window.
Roll In: Bowser has an extra 8 frames of invincibility on this roll, but you can cover his 8 frames of endlag with turnaround grab.
Getup Attack: Hitboxes come out on frame 18-19 and again on frame 28-29. (20 frame lenience)
Roll Away: Falcon is invulnerable from frames 1-24 of 35. Boost grab on frame 19 catches Falcon on frame 32 at the earliest whereas JC grab catches falcon at frame 33 at the earliest. These are 3 and 2 frame windows respectively.
Doing Nothing: You have to wait Falcon out, as none of your fast options hit him. Cypher can set up a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data, and can spotdodge to get invincibility on frame 3, making this a 9 frame window.
Roll In: Look for Falcon's feet to flip above his head and you'll be able to turnaround dash grab him with ease. a perfect turnaround grab will actually whiff.
Roll Away: Falcon is invulnerable from frames 1-24 of 35. Boost grab on frame 19 catches Falcon on frame 32 at the earliest whereas JC grab catches falcon at frame 33 at the earliest. These are 3 and 2 frame windows respectively.
Doing Nothing: You have to wait Falcon out, as none of your fast options hit him. Cypher can set up a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data, and can spotdodge to get invincibility on frame 3, making this a 9 frame window.
Roll In: Look for Falcon's feet to flip above his head and you'll be able to turnaround dash grab him with ease. a perfect turnaround grab will actually whiff.
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack: Hitboxes are active 27-28, after which Dedede becomes vulnerable. 20 frame window.
Roll Away: Snake is able to cover Dedede's first vulnerable frame with a JC grab. USE IT.
Doing Nothing: Jab, f-tilt, and tranq all work.
Stand: Standard frame data and can spotdodge to get invincibility on frame 2, making this an 8 frame window
Roll In: A turnaround grab catches him at any point of his vulnerability. You even have time to dash ahead of him and turnaround grab to keep your orientation the same.
Roll Away: Snake is able to cover Dedede's first vulnerable frame with a JC grab. USE IT.
Doing Nothing: Jab, f-tilt, and tranq all work.
Stand: Standard frame data and can spotdodge to get invincibility on frame 2, making this an 8 frame window
Roll In: A turnaround grab catches him at any point of his vulnerability. You even have time to dash ahead of him and turnaround grab to keep your orientation the same.
Getup Attack: Hitboxes at 16-17, with a 23 frame window of vulnerability. Shield Grab it.
Roll Away: Boost grab covers two frames more than JC grab. Use it.
Doing Nothing: Wait it out. Cypher can start a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data and can spotdodge to get invincibility on frame 2, making this an 8 frame window.
Roll In: Turnaround dash grab has more range than turnaround grab and still catches Diddy on his first vulnerable frame.
Roll Away: Boost grab covers two frames more than JC grab. Use it.
Doing Nothing: Wait it out. Cypher can start a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data and can spotdodge to get invincibility on frame 2, making this an 8 frame window.
Roll In: Turnaround dash grab has more range than turnaround grab and still catches Diddy on his first vulnerable frame.
Getup Attack
Roll Away:
Doing Nothing:
Stand: An extra invincible frame and a frame 2 spotdodge makes this a 7 frame window. Can also UpB to get invincibility AND hitboxes on frame 3.
Roll In
Roll Away:
Doing Nothing:
Stand: An extra invincible frame and a frame 2 spotdodge makes this a 7 frame window. Can also UpB to get invincibility AND hitboxes on frame 3.
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: Frame 2 spotdodge for an 8 frame which beats grab armor. Shine comes out for a 7th frame window, but grab beats hitboxes.
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: Frame 2 spotdodge for an 8 frame which beats grab armor. Shine comes out for a 7th frame window, but grab beats hitboxes.
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: Frame 2 spotdodge for an 8 frame which beats grab armor. Shine comes out for a 7th frame window, but grab beats hitboxes.
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: Frame 2 spotdodge for an 8 frame which beats grab armor. Shine comes out for a 7th frame window, but grab beats hitboxes.
Roll In
Getup Attack: Game & Watch's getup attack hits in front first, so the hit you worry about is frame 33-34, after which G&W is vulnerable (25 frame lenience).
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: G&W has one less invincibility frame and frame 2 spotdodge makes this a 9 frame window. Up B has a frame 1 hitbox but grab armor beats this.
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: G&W has one less invincibility frame and frame 2 spotdodge makes this a 9 frame window. Up B has a frame 1 hitbox but grab armor beats this.
Roll In
Getup Attack: This can be crouched, so just wait for the frame 19-20 and 28-29 hitboxes and then grab (20 frame lenience).
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: Ice Climbers' stand is vulnerable 2 frames earlier.
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand: Ice Climbers' stand is vulnerable 2 frames earlier.
Roll In
Getup Attack: Frames 16-17 hit behind Ike, who becomes vulnerable at frame 25 (25 frame lenience)
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack: Hitboxes come out frame 19-20, who becomes vulnerable at frame 25 (25 frame lenience)
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack: Hitbox comes out frame 28 and Link becomes vulnerable at 30 of 49, making this a 19 frame window.
Roll Away: Requires a read. Reaction tranq fails. Do not attempt unless you've limited its distance in some way.
Doing Nothing: F-tilt is your only quick option for a reset. Cypher can set up a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data + frame 2 spotdodge makes this an 8 frame window
Roll In: This roll is long for a ridiculous timespace, leaving only 4 vulnerable frames. It's possible, but difficult.
Roll Away: Requires a read. Reaction tranq fails. Do not attempt unless you've limited its distance in some way.
Doing Nothing: F-tilt is your only quick option for a reset. Cypher can set up a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data + frame 2 spotdodge makes this an 8 frame window
Roll In: This roll is long for a ridiculous timespace, leaving only 4 vulnerable frames. It's possible, but difficult.
Getup Attack: Hitboxes active on frames 16-17, invincible from 1-22 of 49. 28 frame window.
Roll Away: Requires a read. Reaction tranq fails. Do not attempt unless you've limited its distance in some way.
Doing Nothing: None of the fast options hit. Wait it out or Cypher to start a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data and a frame 2 spotdodge make this an 8 frame window.
Roll In: Very easy to react to. A reactionary pivot grab will catch this.
Roll Away: Requires a read. Reaction tranq fails. Do not attempt unless you've limited its distance in some way.
Doing Nothing: None of the fast options hit. Wait it out or Cypher to start a combo string.
Stand: Standard frame data and a frame 2 spotdodge make this an 8 frame window.
Roll In: Very easy to react to. A reactionary pivot grab will catch this.
Getup Attack: Hitboxes active on frames 20-21, invincible from 1-26 of 49. 23 frame window.
Roll Away: Easily covered by JC grab.
Doing Nothing: Lucas can be f-tilted.
Stand: Standard frame data and a frame 2 spotdodge make this an 8 frame window.
Roll In: a simple turnaround grab covers this.
Roll Away: Easily covered by JC grab.
Doing Nothing: Lucas can be f-tilted.
Stand: Standard frame data and a frame 2 spotdodge make this an 8 frame window.
Roll In: a simple turnaround grab covers this.
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Getup Attack
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Roll Away
Doing Nothing
Stand
Roll In
Last edited:
Funny enough I now have exactly 4 characters in each tier, which means I'm about halfway done with the guide!
