Data The Comprehensive Guide to Link's AT's

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

... maybe your joystick was slightly tilted backwards when you plugged it in.

 

[Natmax]

All right I did some messing around and admit my first post was a bit misguided, but not entirely incorrect. I can still soft throw with only pressing A, but only under one circumstance--the bomb must land above where it started. So I think what I've found is just a little change to the wording of the "wall bombing" tech. That is, the bomb actually can be thrown onto a horizontal portion and still not explode, the horizontal portion just has to be above where you threw it, i.e. an upward slope between you and where the bomb lands. I'd also note that when the slope you're throwing onto goes down the bomb will explode instead of bounce, the non-horizontal area you throw it onto (on the ground) must be sloping up.

This actually can be vaguely useful in tournament play because at least in my region several courses with slopes are legal. For example, Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd, Delfino.

Apologies if this was already known/for any stir caused XD

 

[DUKEL]

Aha.

That's actually how soft tossing works - using the non-smash throw backwards somehow causes the bomb to drop a slightly shorter distance, which is just enough to make it bounce on the stage. Since all that's required is it to be slightly less, then obviously throwing it onto a slope is going to make it not explode.

In other words - yes. This was known.

 

[Deleted member]

I just realized that Smash tossing items from a sprint did not exist in the list of links techs (Couldn't find the right term for it).
Is this because you find it to be useless or is it to much of a every character thing to list?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I just realized that Smash tossing items from a sprint did not exist in the list of links techs (Couldn't find the right term for it).
Is this because you find it to be useless or is it to much of a every character thing to list?

There are only two things you could be talking about from what I can make out. Either you're talking about a Dash Throw, or you're talking about inputting a smash-throw while doing a JC throw. Both would be too obvious to list specifically. There are some things I prefer to count as 'assumed knowledge' i.e. I prefer to assume you've played the character before.
If however you're talking about something else, please be more specific.

 

[Deleted member]

There are only two things you could be talking about from what I can make out. Either you're talking about a Dash Throw, or you're talking about inputting a smash-throw while doing a JC throw. Both would be too obvious to list specifically. There are some things I prefer to count as 'assumed knowledge' i.e. I prefer to assume you've played the character before.
If however you're talking about something else, please be more specific.

I'm talking about non of these. The one I mean is done by. 1, Run in any direction. 2 flick the stick in the opposite direction. 3 flick the stick back to the direction you were running in. 4 press grab. If don correctly link should smash throw the bomb in the direction link was running in and will also stay in place meaning no sliding.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I'm talking about non of these. The one I mean is done by. 1, Run in any direction. 2 flick the stick in the opposite direction. 3 flick the stick back to the direction you were running in. 4 press grab. If don correctly link should smash throw the bomb in the direction link was running in and will also stay in place meaning no sliding.

I see. That more detailed description, involving some mention of actually turning around, i.e. not directly out of a "sprint", helped a lot. I had this listed in the Toon AT list for a while now as the 'Turnaround Cancel Throw' or 'TC Throw' for short.
I don't remember why exactly I didn't add it here too, but I'd imagine that it would have something to do with it essentially being a more limited version of the JC throw. I don't know. There was a reason. In some ways I may just instinctively treat the Toon AT list more like I did my old AT lists where it's partly there as a record of sorts, i.e. as a place where I write down all the interesting mechanical things I note regardless of usefulness/worth, while this AT list is a bit more focused.
I could always add it if people wanted though.
Still, if you're going to turn around and throw the bomb in the direction of the original run anyway, why not JC throw with the A-stick so that you Soft Throw the bomb?

 

[Deleted member]

I see. That more detailed description, involving some mention of actually turning around, i.e. not directly out of a "sprint", helped a lot. I had this listed in the Toon AT list for a while now as the 'Turnaround Cancel Throw' or 'TC Throw' for short.
I don't remember why exactly I didn't add it here too, but I'd imagine that it would have something to do with it essentially being a more limited version of the JC throw. I don't know. There was a reason. In some ways I may just instinctively treat the Toon AT list more like I did my old AT lists where it's partly there as a record of sorts, i.e. as a place where I write down all the interesting mechanical things I note regardless of usefulness/worth, while this AT list is a bit more focused.
I could always add it if people wanted though.
Still, if you're going to turn around and throw the bomb in the direction of the original run anyway, why not JC throw with the A-stick so that you Soft Throw the bomb?

Well soft throwing bombs is pretty much the best option most of the time and the main reason I main link. Though it could be a good option if your opponent has adapted to the soft throwing and is probably not gonna expect the bombs reaching as far as they do. And as it also allows you to break momentum from a sprint it could be useful when having stock lead and just don't want to approach. I guess just for mix ups. Other then that, for fun I guess. Thank you for your answer.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

tl;dr at the bottom

So many of you have already seen it, but FSK put together an updated bombsliding tutorial which features our current understanding of how it works as well as all the currently known ways to bombslide.
https://youtu.be/DhzbRqRL3Qw
[This vid needs some serious attention so get out there and spread the word.]

While working on it we actually further clarified our understanding of how it works, and we haven't posted about it publicly yet. You will remember from last time that there was that whole revelation that it is the upwards input that activates the bombslide. This still holds true, but our understanding of what is required in order to make it work has changed slightly. Previously our understanding was that the upwards input had to be done on the same frame as the second throw input or any later frame, but for a few bombslides, this isn't entirely true.
If you do an up-throw or an upthrow fake-out with any input method that requires the joystick, you can actually hit and hold upwards on the joystick before doing the second throw input, such that when you do the second throw input the game registers an upwards input on that same frame. We theorise that this is because while holding upwards, the game registers the activating input on every single frame that it is held up on. What this means is that this also works for any fake-out bombslide if you use the a-stick for the second throw input. Knowing this actually makes it easier to get the longer variations of the fake-out bombslides because if you hold up immediately after doing the dash throw, the game will always activate the bombslide on the same frame that you do the second throw input, meaning that getting that perfect frame 3 fake-out becomes a matter of timing the a-stick input only.

tl;dr When doing Up-throw or Up-throw Fake out bombslides with any input or when doing any fake-out bombslide with the A-stick used for the second throw input, you can hold up on the joystick before the second throw input and it will still activate the bombslide.

 

[VuraLoL]

Can someone explain me how I can do the backwards throw with the slide but with c-stick on smash? I can get the upwards one and the forward one tho.

My English isn't as strong to find a way doing it without help ^^' I may have overread stuff of that's the case my b :D

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Don't use the C-stick set to smash for the Bombslide Backthrow (or at all imo). Instead use the A+B method I described in the bombslide write-up. All the information is in the OP. There's even a video demonstrating how to do it.

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure how many has thought about this but, you can make some bombslides easier if you dash and then let L-analog return it's neutral position so you enter the skid animation. Pressing attack during skid means you will dash throw the bomb as per usual, but now with L-analog in neutral making bombslides like Backwards and item discard a lot easier as you don't have to time releasing the stick for the item discard bombslide. And you cut the travel the L-analog as to do for the bakwards throw bombslide in half. You can even preform a Forwards throw bombslide from this simply by being in skid and the pressing A > B > L-analog up. Not that it's all that useful for forwards throw bombslide per say, but it's still cool.

I'm sure a lot of people know about this but there may also be people who don't which is why I wanted to say this... That is all.

 

[Superaaron14]

just a small tech that could be added: ledge cancelled arrow (when facing forward), can be used for retreating to the ledge when b reversed and for added pressure when opponent is trying to recover

 

[Dumbfire]

just a small tech that could be added: ledge cancelled arrow (when facing forward), can be used for retreating to the ledge when b reversed and for added pressure when opponent is trying to recover

There's all kinds of cool stuff with those sorts of things covered here btw

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

just a small tech that could be added: ledge cancelled arrow (when facing forward), can be used for retreating to the ledge when b reversed and for added pressure when opponent is trying to recover

Yeah this was already in there under the broader tech 'edge cancelling' which is in the bottom section. You can do more than just cancel the lag of arrows.

 

[Superaaron14]

New link boomerang tech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXWFN_18hCM

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

New link boomerang tech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXWFN_18hCM

Oh. Well I didn't see that coming XD.
In any case, I believe that is what the boomerang does when it hits two (or more I guess) distinct surfaces, but they cannot be direct rebounds, rather, they have to be angled rebounds such that the boomerang continues and doesn't come directly back, much like how the boomerang continues after you angle it into the ground, whereas an example of a rebound that comes directly back can be seen in Gale Guarding. Which one you get all depends on the angle the boomerang hits in relation to the surface. For now I'll refer to the indirect angled rebounds as deflections. To make it clear then, the idea is that you deflect the boomerang enough times such that it is tricked into returning the wrong way. Naturally, the closer you can make the angle be to a direct rebound, the greater the boomerang will be tricked by the deflection, such that a single deflection will be enough to make it do weird things. But to go back in the opposite direction entirely? Two or more deflections would be required. You must have simply angled the boomerang just right such that it deflected off both the top and side of the stage at the same time. It's possible that the specific stage used made it easier, i.e. curved corners or something.
Interesting.

 

[Superaaron14]

link's jab 1 hitbox behind him can jab lock, not sure about the jab 2 hitbox behind him because idk how to test it

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

link's jab 1 hitbox behind him can jab lock, not sure about the jab 2 hitbox behind him because idk how to test it

@Nd_KakaKhakis @FSK
Looks like the cat got out of the bag and preemptively spilt the beans.

But yes, the hitbox on Jab 1, closest to his body does in fact have locking properties. The problem is that the other hitboxes on Jab 1 out-prioritise it, essentially requiring you to hit with that hand hitbox but miss everything else, which is easier said than done. Some character's are easier to land it on, like Olimar; you just have to walk into Olimar and Jab (using the diagonal a-stick makes it easier). The other problem is, it's almost always not going to be worth it. Jab 1 does such poor damage and has such lag afterwards, that your time would have been better spent doing something else. And for the record, yes, technically you can link multiple Jab 1 locks together, but it was exceedingly difficult and done in a lab situation.

 

[MintyGuy700]

Alright, time for a wall of text! Hooray!

At one point around the middle of December, I got ahold of Foxy and told him about the possibility of bombsliding with tap jump, we exchanged a few words, but didn't talk after the fact for about two weeks.

Fast forwards to last week, I sent him a message listing the bombslides I found possible with my control method.

With tap jump on, one can:

• Bombslide Up Throw
• Bombslide Up Throw Fake-out
• Bombslide Forward Throw Fake-Out
• Bombslide Down Throw Fake-Out
• Bombslide Back Throw Fake-Out
• Bombslide Flick Fringe Fake-Out

With tap jump disabled, one can:

• Everything else, to lazy to list.

With that, Foxy tried to confirm my findings, but he ran into an issue. He couldn't do the up throw variant.

The problem was, he was trying to do the A+B method, while what I was doing was A-Stick down up Z.

I told him what I did to achive the variant he couldn't.

Upon giving it a try, he found I was right, and found it strange that it worked. More importantly, however, we found a strange little quirk with the A-stick.

It should come as no surprise to most of you, that when the C-Stick is moved and held, all other control stick inputs are ignored.

Though the A-Stick lacks this, when it is held, for whatever reason. It negates tap jump.

So for that reason, the aforementioned slides are possible with the A-Stick, since it isn't a jump, but an upward input.

And for that exact same reason, that also means that all other bombslides are possible with tap jump so long as the A-Stick is held.

So, now that has been added to the OP here.

Yay science.

 

[Sonnance]

Hope I'm note reposting old information here, but I have some good news for all you 3DS/A stick averse Smashers! I found out a few more ways to, more easily, soft throw a bomb using only the left stick and the A button. Much like the shielding method mentioned above, it seems you can soft thow bombs using just about any other animation to buffer your inputs.

For example, as soon as you take a bomb out, hold lightly in the opposite direction and press A (during the animation of pulling out a bomb.) You can also use a crouch to buffer the inputs as well (tap down, hold light back and A during animation.) I'm sure there are other animations you can use as well, but these are the only two I've tested so far.

Edit: Normal Landing Lag (No aerials, just landing) works too.

As a side note, trying to do it too early out of a foxtrot yields some interesting results. Link almost stops, then does his dash throw animation, then turns around (provided you're still holding back.) Not incredibly helpful, but I can see a few potential uses for this.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hope I'm note reposting old information here, but I have some good news for all you 3DS/A stick averse Smashers! I found out a few more ways to, more easily, soft throw a bomb using only the left stick and the A button. Much like the shielding method mentioned above, it seems you can soft thow bombs using just about any other animation to buffer your inputs.

For example, as soon as you take a bomb out, hold lightly in the opposite direction and press A (during the animation of pulling out a bomb.) You can also use a crouch to buffer the inputs as well (tap down, hold light back and A during animation.) I'm sure there are other animations you can use as well, but these are the only two I've tested so far.

Edit: Normal Landing Lag (No aerials, just landing) works too.

As a side note, trying to do it too early out of a foxtrot yields some interesting results. Link almost stops, then does his dash throw animation, then turns around (provided you're still holding back.) Not incredibly helpful, but I can see a few potential uses for this.

It's kind of surprising that this wasn't realised much sooner, but yeah, the same principle that applied to the shield drop lag method obviously applies to any lag at all, including bomb pull and jump-squat lag. Buffering a tilt throw backwards with the joystick and attack button is a reasonably practical way to perform the soft throw AT without the need for the a-stick. The OP has been updated to reflect this.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Little (important) update about the inner workings of the Bombslide which will be necessary reading material for any Link main:
It's possible that I may have made some reference to this stuff before and maybe just didn't have explanations for it at the time. As such the OP will require updating, at some point... [edit: done.]


It all revolves around what the Grab button actually is and the interaction between the A-stick and the joystick.

Upon inputting the Grab button, the game interprets it as if you had pressed both the Shield button and the A button on the same frame. Then on the following frame, if the Grab button is still being held down, the game interprets it as if you continued to hold the Shield button but let go of the A button.

What this means for the Bombslide is that if you use the Grab button to do the 'dash throw' input, you cannot use the A button or the A-stick to input the second throw on the following frame. This is because the game would read this as if you pressed the Shield and A button on the first frame, then continued to hold the A button on the following frame. Thankfully, continuing to hold the Grab button will not cause you to continue to input 'A', and this is why you can hold Grab and still have the Bombslide work. What this does mean however is that if you use the Grab button to input the dash throw, you can be too quick at inputting the second throw with A or the A-stick. If you don't leave at least a frame of space in between the throw inputs, the Bombslide will not work. This particular problem does not apply to the A+B input method or the Grab + C-stick input method (because I swear there's some kind of 'smash' input tied to A+B and the C-stick which is somehow distinct from the A button; I could explain further but it's not relevant right now).

Upon hitting the A-stick in any direction, the game interprets it as if you lightly tilted the joystick in that direction and hit A on the same frame, then on the following frame nothing is inputted from the A-stick and the game looks elsewhere for inputs. If for example the joystick was being held in a direction the whole time, before during and after the A-stick input, upon hitting the A-stick the game would ignore the joystick for that one frame and pretend that it was tilted in the direction of the A-stick, and then on the following frame it will pretend that the joystick immediately moved from the direction the A-stick was pointing to the direction the joystick had actually been pointing the entire time.

Bringing these two mechanics together, if you go to do a Bombslide with the Grab + A-stick input method, it will be impossible to do a non fake-out Bombslide. The best you could do is hit Grab to do the dash throw, wait a frame, hit the A-stick to input the second throw, then because the A-stick is taking up the joystick input for the frame it is inputted you have to wait till the following frame for the upwards activating joystick input as that will be the earliest it can occur, and this will be on the third frame of the dash throw making it a fake-out. So yes, if you are frame perfect, the best you can achieve with the Grab + A-stick input method is the longest slide of a fake-out Bombslide.

Luckily, input perfection is made easier when using the A-stick because it means you only need to time the A-stick input. Essentially, you are able to move (and hold) the joystick upwards on any frame following the Grab input, and then the frame after you hit the A-stick, the upwards activating input will automatically kick in. So e.g. you can hit Grab to do the dash throw, on the following frame hit and hold Up on the joystick, then on the following frame hit the A-stick (you may also hit and hold Up here too), and then on the following frame the game will register a fresh upwards activating input even though you inputted it earlier, resulting in the perfect Bombslide fake-out.


tl;dr
What does this all mean? How will this affect which methods I use to Bombslide?
If you currently use the Grab + A input method, don't bother with it. Using the A + B input method is a straight upgrade because there's no risk of inputting the second throw too early.
I would however still recommend using the Grab + A-stick input method for Bombslide fake outs. For starters, you are guaranteed that the bomb will travel forwards and won't get thrown upwards, which is presumably what you want. But I would also recommend that you start thinking about the input order differently. Instead of thinking 'Grab then A-stick then Up', think 'Grab then Up then A-stick' quickly. Just know that you can hit the A-stick too early which will make it so you don't Bombslide at all, and know also that so long as you input (and hold) Up earlier, the only thing that will determine the length of your slide is the timing of the A-stick input.

 

[TDK]

I'm not sure if this even qualifies as an AT or what it's uses are outside of an interesting 2-frame or edgeguarding option in doubles. Basically, there's a few steps. The characters that can assist Link with this AT are:

would be the easiest, but characters like can do it too. You just need a wind box. Unfortunately, because of how Gale Boomerang works, there really isn't a way to do this in singles.

The premise is simple. If Link is charging Spin Attack near a ledge or the edge of a platform, right as he releases it, you can hit him with a water box (Think FLUDD or Hydro Pump) and push him off the ledge. If done right, instead of going up, Link will stay right next to the ledge and then slowly descend, letting you cover the ledge and stop a recovering opponent. note that this will most likely cause link to SD, so only use it if your partner can help you recover.

I'll be back with a video once my friend and I can test this more.

 

[Dumbfire]

I'm not sure if this even qualifies as an AT or what it's uses are outside of an interesting 2-frame or edgeguarding option in doubles. Basically, there's a few steps. The characters that can assist Link with this AT are:

would be the easiest, but characters like can do it too. You just need a wind box. Unfortunately, because of how Gale Boomerang works, there really isn't a way to do this in singles.

The premise is simple. If Link is charging Spin Attack near a ledge or the edge of a platform, right as he releases it, you can hit him with a water box (Think FLUDD or Hydro Pump) and push him off the ledge. If done right, instead of going up, Link will stay right next to the ledge and then slowly descend, letting you cover the ledge and stop a recovering opponent. note that this will most likely cause link to SD, so only use it if your partner can help you recover.

I'll be back with a video once my friend and I can test this more.

just have someone shield near you at the ledge

 

[✧Soulgen✧]

Even through I know 2/3 of these techniques, the 1/3 is a game changer, thank you for making this guide for us links who wan't to lift the spammer link stereotype. Although there are a bunch of link trolls online so even if we we're to master them, the stereotype would still be there, but I don't mind it since when I fight someone, my skill usually leaves them dumbfounded

 

[Superaaron14]

Link can actually create phantom hits on his opponent with the help of his returning boomerang. So far the only two moves I've been able to produce this effect with is n-air and first hit f-smash. The timing is still unreliable for me and sometimes it feels random whether or not the phantom hit decides to work.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lL6GqoFYF-c

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Link can actually create phantom hits on his opponent with the help of his returning boomerang. So far the only two moves I've been able to produce this effect with is n-air and first hit f-smash. The timing is still unreliable for me and sometimes it feels random whether or not the phantom hit decides to work.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lL6GqoFYF-c

Ah, this thing. I looked into it already but I guess I never posted it on smashboards. I called it Gale Armor.
It's 1 frame of directional-knockback-based armor that works so long as the other character is within the influence of the boomerang's pull effect, dependant on when they started to be pulled. To be clear, the point at which you get the 1 frame of armor (during the period in which you are being pulled) will change depending on the frame the character began to be pulled by the returning boomerang, and it won't even follow a simple rule like "will be granted on the 15th frame of being pulled", no, it will change wildly. Then, it will only work on moves that inflict knockback angles that are more or less the opposite of the direction that the returning boomerang is pulling the character. It doesn't matter what the character being pulled is doing at the time (they can be in the middle of a move or running for example) or where they are within the boomerang's pull effect (so long as they are actually being pulled). I've been informed that it has even worked with both Link and the other character being in the air at the time, though much of my testing was on the ground.
Because of the way it works, while moves like F-smash (both tipper and non-tipper), Nair, Fair, Jab and Arrow are susceptible to being armored through, you can actually ensure that it never happens by simply always hitting the opponent with certain attacks when they ride the wind into you (like the first hit of D-smash because it hits them hard upwards, or obviously you can just bypass the whole thing with grab).
At this stage, I don't believe there is any useful practical application for the Gale Armor in teams or otherwise. After all, it's a single frame of armor that will only work against some moves that will change depending on the frame you start to get pulled. Therefore, to my knowledge, it cannot be abused.

 

[Superaaron14]

Ah, this thing. I looked into it already but I guess I never posted it on smashboards. I called it Gale Armor.
It's 1 frame of directional-knockback-based armor that works so long as the other character is within the influence of the boomerang's pull effect, dependant on when they started to be pulled. To be clear, the point at which you get the 1 frame of armor (during the period in which you are being pulled) will change depending on the frame the character began to be pulled by the returning boomerang, and it won't even follow a simple rule like "will be granted on the 15th frame of being pulled", no, it will change wildly. Then, it will only work on moves that inflict knockback angles that are more or less the opposite of the direction that the returning boomerang is pulling the character. It doesn't matter what the character being pulled is doing at the time (they can be in the middle of a move or running for example) or where they are within the boomerang's pull effect (so long as they are actually being pulled). I've been informed that it has even worked with both Link and the other character being in the air at the time, though much of my testing was on the ground.
Because of the way it works, while moves like F-smash (both tipper and non-tipper), Nair, Fair, Jab and Arrow are susceptible to being armored through, you can actually ensure that it never happens by simply always hitting the opponent with certain attacks when they ride the wind into you (like the first hit of D-smash because it hits them hard upwards, or obviously you can just bypass the whole thing with grab).
At this stage, I don't believe there is any useful practical application for the Gale Armor in teams or otherwise. After all, it's a single frame of armor that will only work against some moves that will change depending on the frame you start to get pulled. Therefore, to my knowledge, it cannot be abused.

So since this 1 frame armor applies to a character regardless of what they are doing, can you in theory use this to rack up extra damage to a shield broken opponent assuming you get lucky and hit them on the frame they have armor?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I mean, sure, that would work, technically, but good luck. I certainly don't recommend that anyone tries it.

 

[Shoopdawooper]

Thanks a ton for compiling this list Fox! Especially the info about bombsliding.

I do have a problem with getting my bombslides consistently. I used to be able to get about a succesfull bombslides 1 out of 3 attempts, but continued practice hasn't made me anymore consistent. If anything, my latest training mode session was worse. In my experience, most 'advanced tech' is just learning the right input method, and then learning the timing. So my question is, how do you (Bombsliding link main) get consistent bombslides?

I'm currently using the A+B method Fox described, with my right hand clawing so I can press the A and B buttons sufficiëntly fast, and making a quarter circle with the analog stick, changing the timing to try for an up-throw or forward throw bombslide.

I'm aware that this might just be a case of me failing, and just needing even more practice at it, but it seems weird for me that I can perform the technique for so long now without any improvements in consistency.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

With the A+B method I just roll my thumb. No need to claw.