Q&A "The Clinic"- Dr. Mario Q&A Thread

[TTTTTsd]

Okay, so this Is possible? Because if so, there should be a way to optimize the usage of the edgeguard by B reversing into what whatever direction will send them into a stage spike.

It is 100% possible to B Reverse Nado. It's kinda hard sometimes but give it a try!

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

It is 100% possible to B Reverse Nado. It's kinda hard sometimes but give it a try!

Trick is to hold straight down (not d/f or d/b) and then quickly roll the stick in the other direction. I don't have a Wii U and it has been ages since I used a GC controller, so I don't know how much harder it is to B-reverse/Wavebounce.

 

[FUEGO!]

Trick is to hold straight down (not d/f or d/b) and then quickly roll the stick in the other direction. I don't have a Wii U and it has been ages since I used a GC controller, so I don't know how much harder it is to B-reverse/Wavebounce.

Oh I know how to do it from wavebouncing Ryu's Focus attack cancel. The thing I want to optimize however is knowing what way the opponent will shoot out of the tornado in relation to which way you are facing when you start the tornado.

I.e. will you net a stage spike of you start tornado while facing away from your recovering opponent?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Oh I know how to do it from wavebouncing Ryu's Focus attack cancel. The thing I want to optimize however is knowing what way the opponent will shoot out of the tornado in relation to which way you are facing when you start the tornado.

I.e. will you net a stage spike of you start tornado while facing away from your recovering opponent?

I don't think the direction you're facing makes a difference. It depends on where you are in relation to your opponent. If you're right of the opponent, you will send them to the left with the final hit. Similar rule applies if you are on the left of the opponent.

 

[Cryptid10]

Anyone have any tips on landing Fair on recovering opponents? I time it for when they're close, and it seems like they always go over or under me perfectly every time.

 

[HoSmash4]

What are DR Marios ledge coverage options?

 

[Cryptid10]

What are DR Marios ledge coverage options?

His back air is a good one. The Fair is only useful for stage spikes as it sends them upwards. Pills can help, and his down b can push them away and have you recovering back at the same time. Edit: And the cape. Forgot it.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

What are DR Marios ledge coverage options?

Down-B and Up-Smash cover the ledge pretty well.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What would you guys say the best way of killing is with doc, like the most reliable option, I use forward air when it comes to the doc, but I'm not sure about any other options.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

What would you guys say the best way of killing is with doc, like the most reliable option, I use forward air when it comes to the doc, but I'm not sure about any other options.

Up Smash, Up-B, Down-B, B-air, and sometimes Down Smash. F-air should seldom be used unless:

a. You're confident that you'll land it (and I mean after making an educated guess).
b. You combo into it.

Up-Smash: You like Mario's Up-Smash? Here's a dumber version of it.
Up-B: Three frames, huge hitbox, reversible on hit and shield, great edgeguarding option, good KO power.
Down-B: More useful on the sides. Active hitboxes, beats out other attacks, good KO power on the sides, covers high and low recoveries.
B-air: It's really good. Might be staled since you will be using this a lot, but it's worth remembering.
Down-Smash: Situational one. Not as powerful as his other options, but still pretty strong. Good for roll coverage.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Up Smash, Up-B, Down-B, B-air, and sometimes Down Smash. F-air should seldom be used unless:

a. You're confident that you'll land it (and I mean after making an educated guess).
b. You combo into it.

Up-Smash: You like Mario's Up-Smash? Here's a dumber version of it.
Up-B: Three frames, huge hitbox, reversible on hit and shield, great edgeguarding option, good KO power.
Down-B: More useful on the sides. Active hitboxes, beats out other attacks, good KO power on the sides, covers high and low recoveries.
B-air: It's really good. Might be staled since you will using this a lot, but it's worth remembering.
Down-Smash: Situational one. Not as powerful as his other options, but still pretty strong. Good for roll coverage.

So about staling moves, are any of Dr. Mario's moves good when stale, or should I keep them fresh?.
(a dumber version of Mario's upsmash. (god I'm quoting that whenever I can))

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

So about staling moves, are any of Dr. Mario's moves good when stale, or should I keep them fresh?.
(a dumber version of Mario's upsmash. (god I'm quoting that whenever I can))

I guess Up-Smash and Up-B are the best even when staled. In general, you should try to avoid staling your moves, but with Doc, it's more important to get the hit. And rage helps. So in order of importance:

1. Focus on getting hits.
2. Focus on not staling moves too much.

 

[TheClamFace]

Why do people seem to think Doctor Mario is so bad? I honestly don't see how slower movement speed can make him that much worse, especially considering he still has Mario's frame data and a pretty good combo game with stronger kill moves.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Why do people seem to think Doctor Mario is so bad? I honestly don't see how slower movement speed can make him that much worse, especially considering he still has Mario's frame data and a pretty good combo game with stronger kill moves.

Doc's weaknesses (poor mobility, below average recovery, poor range, etc.) tend to be mentioned several times because they are very obvious weaknesses. It's kind of sad that people view him so low, considering that he has Mario's frame data + KO confirms on top/high tier characters like Sheik, ZSS, Fox, Diddy, MK, and the like +, an actual edgeguard game in Down-B and Up-B. There's also a lot of hype for Mario, who isn't THAT good of a character; he's barely better than Doc or Luigi as a character.

 

[tibs7]

if he had faster movement speed he would be able to weave in and out wayyyy better. even making some of things safer. He would be able to pressure landings better too. speed is super important in this game!

 

[HoSmash4]

What are Dr Mario's bread and butter combos/frame traps on fast fallers? (Sheik)

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

off of down throw, you get:

up smash
up b
down b
fair
bair
uair (can get uair to up b but it's tricky)
dair--> sourspot up b
utilt

special case on captain falcon is:
up throw --> up smash

dtilt: up tilt or up b

 

[Spottel]

On some characters there are even 50%+ true combos! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOemBhStYJo&feature=youtu.be Here is a great video about that from TRC.

 

[Capt. Tin]

Anyone have any good advice on dealing with Corrin? I can't seem to edgeguard him, his range is ridiculous and I keep getting gimped by bair.

 

[RandomGuySheep]

Noob question: How do you Dthrow to UpAir (2x)? I short hop it and get the first one but never seem to get the 2nd one? I'm wandering if it's because i slide my thumb from Y to A. Should i be pressing the buttons individually really fast?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Anyone have any good advice on dealing with Corrin? I can't seem to edgeguard him, his range is ridiculous and I keep getting gimped by bair.

I can't imagine a good one being easy given how good her aerial game is, but a few things to remember:
1. Corrin's mobility isn't that great. So it's not very hard to catch up with them.
2. Forward Smash is not easy to punish from a distance. But some Corrins tend to do 2 f smashes in a row, thinking that you will try to punish them. It's not safe point blank.
3. Corrin's recovery isn't that great without Side-B jausts into the wall or back air. This applies to both his horizontal and vertical recovery. Go for edgeguards with Down-B.
4. The Side B is not safe if it hits your shield. You can punish it OOS on reaction. The kick variations aren't very safe either. The jump variation has a longish cooldown where the Corrin cannot do anything (even airdodge) for some time.
5. I have no idea how to SDI the rapid jab (think you SDI up), but it's possible to DI it. A Corrin player did it to me when I tried to used it.
6. You can cape the DFS or just nullify it with pills. Even a fully charged DFS doesn't have that much durability.

Noob question: How do you Dthrow to UpAir (2x)? I short hop it and get the first one but never seem to get the 2nd one? I'm wandering if it's because i slide my thumb from Y to A. Should i be pressing the buttons individually really fast?

Tbh, it's not something a lot of Doc's do consistently. It will be most practical on LIGHT fastfallers (Fox, MK, ZSS, Pika, etc.) since there is less throw lag. You should ask TheRealCarterer (makes a lot of Doc videos).

Anyone have any tips on landing Fair on recovering opponents? I time it for when they're close, and it seems like they always go over or under me perfectly every time.

Belated response to this: Do it sparingly.

I'm assuming you mean opponents that are in freefall? If you insist on using Fair, time it so that they "fall" into it. Otherwise, use something more reliable e.g (Up Smash).

 

[Ridel]

How does Doc handle zoning and projectile heavy characters?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

How does Doc handle zoning and projectile heavy characters?

There's no simple answer to this but a few things to remember:
1. Sheet is really good but you can be baited so don't just spam it.
2. Pills can be used as a reactive projectile (i.e. you anticipate that your opponent will throw a projectile and throw a pill to nullify it). Don't try to outzone your opponent because you can't. You can just mitigate the 'spam'.
3. Try to familiarize yourself with the properties of important projectiles. Can the projectile be easily reflected? Can it be nullified? Can it be hit back (cough D3 cough)? Can it be picked up (and is it worth picking up?)
4. Be patient.
5. If you aren't confident in reflecting/catching/picking it up, try to power shield.
6. Down-B CAN nullify some projectiles, but it's not usually a good idea to do this since you will often clank with the projectile.

Overall, it's not too bad, but it depends on the character.

 

[Sari]

Any tips for the and matchups? I'm going to a tourney this Saturday and two of the best players there use these characters. I mainly want to know how to deal with 's lemons and 's uptilt -> shoryuken while using Doc.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Any tips for the and matchups? I'm going to a tourney this Saturday and two of the best players there use these characters. I mainly want to know how to deal with 's lemons and 's uptilt -> shoryuken while using Doc.

There's a video in this forum of a guy going Doc against Scatt (godlike Megaman player). Lemons don't have a lot of hitstun and (as far as I am aware) have low durability. You can opt to powershield if you want to play it safe.

Ryu's up tilt can be Di'ed but I'm not sure of the direction. Best checking the Ryu boards.

Tips against Ryu: Stay away as best as you can since his normals will beat yours. Space with Bairs. Hadoken has low durability and can beaten by bairs if timed well. Focus Attack is gimmicky and if you anticipate it, you can just Down-B through it.

Tips against Megaman: Be patient, try to use the blade against him, his up air and down air can be caped (down air can be nullified with Up-B), his recovery is exploitable (try to edgegaurd with down-B as the Megaman is using his Up-B).

 

[Capt. Tin]

Does anyone really use f-tilt at all?

I started using it a little bit as a move to get the enemy off me, to extend a combo, and sometimes to poke, but I haven't really seen the move used like that by anyone else.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Does anyone really use f-tilt at all?

I started using it a little bit as a move to get the enemy off me, to extend a combo, and sometimes to poke, but I haven't really seen the move used like that by anyone else.

Occasionally. Its' selling point is its' range (relative to Doc's other moves) and its' ability to be pivoted easily. Down Tilt is better by a long shot.

Noob question: How do you Dthrow to UpAir (2x)? I short hop it and get the first one but never seem to get the 2nd one? I'm wandering if it's because i slide my thumb from Y to A. Should i be pressing the buttons individually really fast?

I'd like to update my response to this. You just have to make sure you're moving forward enough and pressing Up-Air quickly. I've been toying around with this recently so that I can understand how it works better myself. You have to pay attention to where your opponent DIs after the down throw since up air's trajectory changes depending on where it hits the opponent. If they DI away, run then full hop up air into up air. If they don't DI, full hop up air to up air. Make sure that you are holding the control stick forward between the two up airs.

 

[FireJuun]

I wish. Dair is too laggy and Fair is too slow.

I actually don't know how many button presses it takes. I think at least 10 (i.e. minimum of 10) presses are required. You should be able to check by slowing the speed in training mode and mashing down b.

EDIT: Misread that. Yes, dthrow to fair works but it's character specific. There's a thread on this forum going over the method to do it.

Figured I'd chime in, since I've yet to see anyone answer this question in the Dr. Mario forums. If this has been answered before, then I apologize.

Dr. Mario turns a total of four complete circles when he does his Dr. Tornado. Each time he faces backwards vs his starting position, those frames are when you should be hitting B. If you count his initial Down B as input #1, you can reach max height by pressing B only 5 times total.

I consider Dr. Tornado to be similar to Marth's side B, since timing is far more important than brute-force button mashing. To practice, go to Hyrule Temple and stand on the left platform that connects the underground area from the main stage. In 1/4 speed, you should be able to reach the platform above in 5 clicks. Since this is a huge part of Dr. Mario's recovery, I strongly recommend practicing the timing. At normal speed, I'm able to keep the timing down by saying "1 AND 2 AND 3", clicking each time I speak.

I hope this was useful. If desired, I can give a more visual description as well.

 

[Capt. Tin]

Figured I'd chime in, since I've yet to see anyone answer this question in the Dr. Mario forums. If this has been answered before, then I apologize.

Dr. Mario turns a total of four complete circles when he does his Dr. Tornado. Each time he faces backwards vs his starting position, those frames are when you should be hitting B. If you count his initial Down B as input #1, you can reach max height by pressing B only 5 times total.

I consider Dr. Tornado to be similar to Marth's side B, since timing is far more important than brute-force button mashing. To practice, go to Hyrule Temple and stand on the left platform that connects the underground area from the main stage. In 1/4 speed, you should be able to reach the platform above in 5 clicks. Since this is a huge part of Dr. Mario's recovery, I strongly recommend practicing the timing. At normal speed, I'm able to keep the timing down by saying "1 AND 2 AND 3", clicking each time I speak.

I hope this was useful. If desired, I can give a more visual description as well.

This actually improved my overall height. When I timed my mashes. I was able to reach heights I would barely not make, as opposed to just button mashing it.

If only it was like in Project M where setting another button to do special moves (For me I use Y) and then mashing both B and Y gave you ridiculous Tornado heights.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Figured I'd chime in, since I've yet to see anyone answer this question in the Dr. Mario forums. If this has been answered before, then I apologize.

Dr. Mario turns a total of four complete circles when he does his Dr. Tornado. Each time he faces backwards vs his starting position, those frames are when you should be hitting B. If you count his initial Down B as input #1, you can reach max height by pressing B only 5 times total.

I consider Dr. Tornado to be similar to Marth's side B, since timing is far more important than brute-force button mashing. To practice, go to Hyrule Temple and stand on the left platform that connects the underground area from the main stage. In 1/4 speed, you should be able to reach the platform above in 5 clicks. Since this is a huge part of Dr. Mario's recovery, I strongly recommend practicing the timing. At normal speed, I'm able to keep the timing down by saying "1 AND 2 AND 3", clicking each time I speak.

I hope this was useful. If desired, I can give a more visual description as well.

Good stuff dude. I manage to get max height by mashing quickly so that the hits get registered, but this is a huge leap in efficiency.

 

[FireJuun]

Thanks! I'm not the best at button mashing, so I had to find a way to make due.

I still can't explain why I sometimes tornado down straight through my opponent when ledgeguarding low, despite all my timing / mashing. Fast falls should cancel during an attack, so I don't think that's it. I've also noticed that on the ground, when this attack connects, sometimes you gain no height at all despite your mashing.

Does anyone know if smash DI is in effect for us when we're doing Dr. Tornado? If so, then there may be an optimal way to move the control stick when our attacks land.

 

[Capt. Tin]

It's a bug with the tornado.

http://smashboards.com/threads/dear...ts-too-late-the-cyclone-hitlag-glitch.420602/

 

[Capt. Tin]

Any advice on consistently doing RAR Bairs? I keep messing up and doing Short hopped Forward Airs.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Any advice on consistently doing RAR Bairs? I keep messing up and doing Short hopped Forward Airs.

Do it slowly until you get the timing, then gradually speed it up. Make sure that the back input is registered.

 

[GerudoKong]

Does anyone know which rapid jabs Doc can upB out of? From experience I know Falco's jab can be upBed out of almost all the time, while Robin's and Falcon's can be upB'd out of if you're low % and DI up.

 

[Capt. Tin]

It really depends on your SDI and your percent. It gets easier at higher percents due to the higher knockback from the jabs.

 

[Endurrr]

POINT ME TO SOME GUIDES!
I see all these doc players on this board but I can't find many helpful guides. Maybe I'm blind, but I just can't find much information thats actually organized. Video guides preferably, so if you know of any good doc guides, I'd love it if someone could direct me to them

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

POINT ME TO SOME GUIDES!
I see all these doc players on this board but I can't find many helpful guides. Maybe I'm blind, but I just can't find much information thats actually organized. Video guides preferably, so if you know of any good doc guides, I'd love it if someone could direct me to them

Here is a good starting point. Things like notable moves, dthrow to fair visual guide, dair uses, etc.

https://youtu.be/Z63tK5Mlqds

 

[ArikadoSD]

How does Doc do against mario? I might use him in that mu.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

How does Doc do against mario? I might use him in that mu.

Most of us think it's even.

Doc's pros
+ 90 something percent identical frame data to Mario (which means that both of them can break out of each other's combos and pressure)
+ Better KO power, with Up Smash, and Up-B being reliable KO moves. Bair is pretty nice though it might be staled quickly since it's a really good move to throw out in neutral. Down-B can kill on the sides of the stage. Down-Smash is just stronger, no special properties compared to Mario's.
+ Doc can edgeguard much more efficiently with Down-B, Reverse Up-B and (occasionally) dair. Dair can trade with certain attacks (e.g. Mario's Up-B) and this will cause a semi spike. Mario can edgeguard Doc because Doc's recovery is exploitable, but it takes more guesswork.

Doc's cons
- Worse jumps (minus the short hop) and mobility.
- Worse combo ability. So even though Doc does more damage, Mario can get more hits.
- Worse recovery (has the drawbacks of Mario's recovery but worse airspeed, double jump height and Up-B distance. Down-B can be used to mitigate this.)