Q&A "The Clinic"- Dr. Mario Q&A Thread

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What is the best secondary for Doc? my friends to lazy to ask this, so im looking for some help for him... i was thinking a character with good range or something... but there is something better i bet...

 

[BabyMarioDS]

well, dr marios weakness' are:
mobility
range
recovery
as a doc main, i think the following are good:
villager
fox
sonic
sheik (well duh )
and maybe wario? idk

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

What is the best secondary for Doc? my friends to lazy to ask this, so im looking for some help for him... i was thinking a character with good range or something... but there is something better i bet...

ZSS, Sheik, and Diddy in no order of preference.

Reasons for:

Sheik - It's Sheik.
Diddy - Good mobility, good range, good frame data, good punish game, and a fair that is usable as a spacing tool . You still have an exploitable recovery to deal with and you get comboed harder and you are lighter.
ZSS - Good frame data (that jab), reliable OOS game with Up Tilt, Jab, Forward Tilt and Up-B, Down Throw conversions are great, Nair conversions are good, good mobility, and good range. Like Diddy, you are lighter and you get comboed harder, you have a slightly harder time against shorter characters and your grab is borderline awful.

 

[tibs7]

What is the best secondary for Doc? my friends to lazy to ask this, so im looking for some help for him... i was thinking a character with good range or something... but there is something better i bet...

yeah I have diddy kong and Link actually.
I find Link vs rosaluma in particular to be a better MU than versus doc and also if they take me to Halberd I may whip out some Diddy for cheap throw combo kills.

 

[ralph458]

Care to explain why it isn't viable? (Up B)

If you already have soaring tornado (Which should be in every doc mains custom set) then there is practically no reason for any other up b other than the default.

What is the best secondary for Doc? my friends to lazy to ask this, so im looking for some help for him... i was thinking a character with good range or something... but there is something better i bet...

I'd recommend Ness and Kirby.

 

[ralph458]

What is the best secondary for Doc? my friends to lazy to ask this, so im looking for some help for him... i was thinking a character with good range or something... but there is something better i bet...

I'd recommend Ness and Kirby.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

If you already have soaring tornado (Which should be in every doc mains custom set) .

Eh, Default Tornado is way more versatile. Soaring Tornado sends you straight up without the ability to move left or right, has one hitbox at the end of the move, and is more unsafe than the regular version. It's a powerful but highly overrated custom.

 

[ralph458]

Well it sends you really high, which is great for recovery, which the doc needs, and while it only has one hit box, that hitbox is very powerful, and it pushes away fighters. Granted, I'm not trying to say default is worse, I'm just saying If you have soaring tornado, don't use Super Jump punch. Also I see the two as sidegrades of eachother.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Well it sends you really high, which is great for recovery, which the doc needs, and while it only has one hit box, that hitbox is very powerful, and it pushes away fighters. Granted, I'm not trying to say default is worse, I'm just saying If you have soaring tornado, don't use Super Jump punch. Also I see the two as sidegrades of eachother.

If you already have soaring tornado (Which should be in every doc mains custom set) then there is practically no reason for any other up b other than the default.

??

I used to think that the two were sidegrades, but I'm not really convinced anymore. The default just does so much more for the character, both onstage and offstage.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Out of curiosity, does Doc's Up Smash kill more vertically or horizontally?

 

[ralph458]

??

I used to think that the two were sidegrades, but I'm not really convinced anymore. The default just does so much more for the character, both onstage and offstage.

I know I should've clarified. Every doc main should have a few custom sets (Not all of them) with soaring tornado.
Plus, if you aren't good at mashing, accidentally fast-fall a lot, or get launched too far, it is great. I personally think, Default is more versatile and well rounded, while soaring tornado excels at some aspects, and isn't as good as others.
But that's my opinion, and just some tips. I'm not saying you have to choose soaring tornado, I'm just saying It's a good option.
And then there's clothesline tornado which sucks a**, but lets not bother with that.

 

[Zanarkan]

Hey guys I'm a Mario main learning doc as a secondary and the more I play him the more fun I have and the more I consider just to main him lol. My question is does anyone have any advice/techniques on how to reverse up-B more consistently. Doc's up-B is a great OOS option and I love using it for that and edge-guarding as well as a combo finisher. The problem is in a lot of these situations I'm facing the wrong direction and I need to reverse the up-B and for whatever reason I try to do it and half the time I either get a cape or I just up-B the direction I'm facing (in edge-guard situation this usually leads to my death lol).

I use a gamecube controller with standard grip and standard control scheme.

Thanks Doc Friends!

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Hey guys I'm a Mario main learning doc as a secondary and the more I play him the more fun I have and the more I consider just to main him lol. My question is does anyone have any advice/techniques on how to reverse up-B more consistently. Doc's up-B is a great OOS option and I love using it for that and edge-guarding as well as a combo finisher. The problem is in a lot of these situations I'm facing the wrong direction and I need to reverse the up-B and for whatever reason I try to do it and half the time I either get a cape or I just up-B the direction I'm facing (in edge-guard situation this usually leads to my death lol).

I use a gamecube controller with standard grip and standard control scheme.

Thanks Doc Friends!

Not much to say here unfortunately. Just practice, practice, practice. You can do Up-B multiple times in training to get a slightly better understanding of how to flick the stick upwards.

If you're talking about it as an edge-guarding option, just hit the opposite direction immediately after you get the hit (you have a good enough window to hit the opposite direction). Again, practice thoroughly. You can do a reverse up-B regularly to grab the ledge, but you will probably miss the opponent.

 

[Gijsbeer]

Hello Doc Mains! Im working on my secondary, Dr Mario. Im pretty tight with his combo game, but I have a problem with his recovery. When Im recovering with the Doc and im facing a lasting nair Character (fox, for example) all they have to do is drop down between the ledge and my UpB. We'll trade, which ends up in Doc getting gimped. I cant wait it out because his verticle recovery is too short too wait. Any of you have any tips aginast lasting Nair edguarding?

 

[Zanarkan]

Hello Doc Mains! Im working on my secondary, Dr Mario. Im pretty tight with his combo game, but I have a problem with his recovery. When Im recovering with the Doc and im facing a lasting nair Character (fox, for example) all they have to do is drop down between the ledge and my UpB. We'll trade, which ends up in Doc getting gimped. I cant wait it out because his verticle recovery is too short too wait. Any of you have any tips aginast lasting Nair edguarding?

I would use tornado more. If you are far off, use it before your double jump as a mix up. If you are closer and they come out with a nair the tornado will usually beat it out because it's a multi hit move.

 

[Sari]

What do you guys think is better at low percents, up-throw or down-throw? I used to always do down throw but recently I've been using more up-throws since it allows you to juggle your opponent easier, and you can still usually hit them with some up-airs (plus the actual throw does slightly more damage). I find it especially useful for characters with bad air game such as Little Mac.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What do you guys think is better at low percents, up-throw or down-throw? I used to always do down throw but recently I've been using more up-throws since it allows you to juggle your opponent easier, and you can still usually hit them with some up-airs (plus the actual throw does slightly more damage). I find it especially useful for characters with bad air game such as Little Mac.

Very matchup dependent.

Don't want to go in depth, just find out what works for you. There's situations where U-throw is better at low%. Different character physics will affect how your strings will work and you have to lab out each one to really understand how Doc's juggles work.

U-throw U-smash is a thing on Falcon however.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

What do you guys think is better at low percents, up-throw or down-throw? I used to always do down throw but recently I've been using more up-throws since it allows you to juggle your opponent easier, and you can still usually hit them with some up-airs (plus the actual throw does slightly more damage). I find it especially useful for characters with bad air game such as Little Mac.

Could say the same for Mario, except Doc's has much more base knockback but less knockback growth. At low percentages, I agree with A2ZOMG that it's character dependent just like with Mario.

BTW, A2Z, Up throw to up smash is also a thing for Mario.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Out of curiosity, does Doc's Up Smash kill more vertically or horizontally?

Horizontally. I don't think I've ever killed with it at the top of the screen, though I've come close. Damn, this move is too good.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Horizontally. I don't think I've ever killed with it at the top of the screen, though I've come close. Damn, this move is too good.

Isn't Mario's still better (matchup dependent)?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Isn't Mario's still better (matchup dependent)?

Not really. Doc's kills much earlier, even from center stage, and the extra active frame helps a bit at covering the area in front of him. I guess landing Mario's Up Smash might technically be more useful against floaty characters, but the move itself isn't better than Doc's anymore.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Not really. Doc's kills much earlier, even from center stage, and the extra active frame helps a bit at covering the area in front of him. I guess landing Mario's Up Smash might technically be more useful against floaty characters, but the move itself isn't better than Doc's anymore.

How much earlier? Plus I'm pretty sure Mario's mobility and extra range make his own up smash better for hitting opponents.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

How much earlier? Plus I'm pretty sure Mario's mobility and extra range make his own up smash better for hitting opponents.

1. What extra range? On Mario's Up Smash? Because if anything, Doc's has 'better range' due to the extra frame.
2. How does that make the move better? You asked whether a move is better than another move and I gave you an answer that only factors in the properties of the moves and NOTHING ELSE.
3. Taking mobility into account, Mario's Up Smash isn't magically easier to land than Doc's. There's hardly a difference in their dash speeds over shorter distances, their range is almost identical, and so is their frame data. It could be argued that the move is easier to land when chasing someone over long distances, but does that make Mario's Up Smash a better or more useful move? Not really.
4. As I recall, around 5%-10% from centre stage with no DI, but then you have to remember that Doc's knockback growth is much higher than Mario's, and rage augments this considerably.

 

[Kitzu]

Wondering how I can use D-air, is it like Kirby's?

 

[Sari]

Ryu's light up-tilt to shoryuken is almost always guaranteed: can Doc's up-B hit Ryu between said attacks?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Wondering how I can use D-air, is it like Kirby's?

You use it to challenge moves, and counter spotdodges and rolls. Not much to say about dair. On some characters, you can get dthrow to full hop dair.

Ryu's light up-tilt to shoryuken is almost always guaranteed: can Doc's up-B hit Ryu between said attacks?

I don't think so.

 

[Ruuku]

Is dthrow->fair a guaranteed kill setup? Also how many button presses does it take for maximum downB height?

 

[Kitzu]

Is dthrow->fair a guaranteed kill setup?

I can say that is definitely not a kill setup. fair takes too long to come out.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Is dthrow->fair a guaranteed kill setup? Also how many button presses does it take for maximum downB height?

I wish. Dair is too laggy and Fair is too slow.

I actually don't know how many button presses it takes. I think at least 10 (i.e. minimum of 10) presses are required. You should be able to check by slowing the speed in training mode and mashing down b.

EDIT: Misread that. Yes, dthrow to fair works but it's character specific. There's a thread on this forum going over the method to do it.

 

[Kitzu]

Eight_SixtyFour he didn't say Dair, he said Dthrow

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Eight_SixtyFour he didn't say Dair, he said Dthrow

Ah, misread that. I've edited my response.

 

[Heracr055]

Hi, Docs!
I secondary Dr. Mario (I main Dark Pit) and want to look at some tough, character specific scenarios.
Versus Ness, can Nair or UpB escape Ness' DThrow to Fair string combo? Also, sometimes Ness players will do a full or double jump forwards and retreat fall (landing where they initially started) while using Fair or Nair. This makes a potent offensive and defensive wall. Will Dr. Mario's Bair outrange or trade with Ness' Fair or Nair?
For ROB, does Dr. Mario have any ways of escaping Uair after a Dthrow, specifically at lower percents?

 

[Whyhaveaname123]

So, does the megavitamin have more endlag when used on the ground? And does anyone have matchup experience against Rosa?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Hi, Docs!
I secondary Dr. Mario (I main Dark Pit) and want to look at some tough, character specific scenarios.
Versus Ness, can Nair or UpB escape Ness' DThrow to Fair string combo? Also, sometimes Ness players will do a full or double jump forwards and retreat fall (landing where they initially started) while using Fair or Nair. This makes a potent offensive and defensive wall. Will Dr. Mario's Bair outrange or trade with Ness' Fair or Nair?
For ROB, does Dr. Mario have any ways of escaping Uair after a Dthrow, specifically at lower percents?

I think bair can trade with Ness' fair. Bair is really Doc's only walling tool. I'm more confident in Doc's bair beating Ness' nair if it is spaced well.

I'm sure you can up-b through the string too, but nair is safer.

As for ROB, you have to make your trajectory less predictable. At lower percents, dthrow to uair combos on most characters.

So, does the megavitamin have more endlag when used on the ground? And does anyone have matchup experience against Rosa?

No. But B-reverse/wavebounce Megavitamin in the air can help Doc space more safely.

In tournament? 2ManyCooks and Koolaid would know about Rosaluma. All of us don't really like the matchup, even though Doc has simple and powerful ways to separate the two.

 

[Saturn_]

I recently switched from Luigi to Mario/Dr. Mario. What are the uses of Doc's Down-B, is it just good for edgeguards or can you use it out of dthrow too, similar to Luigi's?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I recently switched from Luigi to Mario/Dr. Mario. What are the uses of Doc's Down-B, is it just good for edgeguards or can you use it out of dthrow too, similar to Luigi's?

Down-B is good for a lot of things.
1. Edge-guarding, like you said. The last hit has a lot of knockback on the sides and the other hits trap the opponent really well, irrespective of their position on the stage.
2. Shield Pressure. You have a lot more control compared to Luigi's rather slippery Cyclone when it comes to pressuring shields. Tornado is unsafe, but you can space it in a way that makes it hard to punish.
3. Mixing up your landings. Tornado stalls and can be steered left and right. It's pretty good at hitting opponents on the way down if they are not careful.
4. Covering rolls and spot dodges. Lots of active hitboxes so... yeah.

You can combo into Down-B on some characters (including the Pits and Lucas(?)) but it's not worth it. Unless you really want that knockback. Even then, the combo only works at certain percents.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Additionally, B-Reverse Tornado is nice for landing mixups if you use it right as it completely shifts your horizontal momentum moreso than a standard Tornado. It takes a bit of practice but once you get it, you can do some very interesting things with it.

 

[~Kestrel~]

I actually had a question regarding secondaries as well:

I have been pretty much maining Doc since the game was released, but I have been having the hardest time deciding on secondaries. I am looking for a mobile/rushdown character as well as a zoning character to combat some of Doc's bad MUs. I have a list of the characters that I was considering here and I have decent experience with using all of these:

Mobile/Rushdown:
-Yoshi
-Pikachu
-Capt. Falcon
-Greninja
-Meta Knight
-Roy
-Sonic
-ZSS

Zoning:
-Villager
-Pac-Man
-Mega Man
-Link/Toon Link
-R.O.B

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I actually had a question regarding secondaries as well:

I have been pretty much maining Doc since the game was released, but I have been having the hardest time deciding on secondaries. I am looking for a mobile/rushdown character as well as a zoning character to combat some of Doc's bad MUs. I have a list of the characters that I was considering here and I have decent experience with using all of these:

Mobile/Rushdown:
-Yoshi
-Pikachu - Good mobility, good recovery, combos, tilts. Really light, aerials are somewhat lacking.
-Capt. Falcon - Has the weight, range and KO potential. Gets comboed harder.
-Greninja
-Meta Knight - Dash attack, up air x3/4, up - b. Gets comboed harder, dies earlier.
-Roy
-Sonic
-ZSS - Your best choice. Mid-range confirms, reliable kill setups, good mobility and recovery, but gets comboed harder and has a bad grab.

Zoning:
-Villager - Not as mobile, but good keepaway, decent close quarters game, and great recovery.
-Pac-Man
-Mega Man
-Link/Toon Link
-R.O.B

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[FUEGO!]

Additionally, B-Reverse Tornado is nice for landing mixups if you use it right as it completely shifts your horizontal momentum moreso than a standard Tornado. It takes a bit of practice but once you get it, you can do some very interesting things with it.

Okay, so this Is possible? Because if so, there should be a way to optimize the usage of the edgeguard by B reversing into what whatever direction will send them into a stage spike.