The Burning Digimon Dinosaur - Agumon for Smash - Digimon Survive 2020

[ryuu seika]

well id prefer kilik

Honestly, I never really considered Killik. I like him but he's not a favourite of mine and he's not the embodiment of the game's plot that helmetless Nightmare is. I wouldn't mind him but I don't think him likely.

actually the link in soul calibur seems to be a unique incarnation, he may have the look of oot link but his back story borrows elements mostly from a alttp he doest really fit with any of them

Really? All I remember of his backstory was "He sensed evil and jumped through a portal to stop it.".

you see you cant but fight against it, thats the point it flawed logic, thinking any sword fighter would be just like any other sword fighter is like thinking agumon would play like the other three fire and claw users

Yep. I could refute the rebuttle but hopefully I've made my point already.
Agumon's relative agility, slippery movement and high-motion attacks set him apart in his base form. And yes, he does have potential to go beyond that form with a character gimmick. Even if every pokemon does, too.
Lloyd, likewise, has a lot of personality in his movements and some goofy, offhand hitboxes as a result. Plus, he has a tonne of ways to move about in the air with his sword specials.
Heihatchi is a close quarters, stationary fighter by nature. Very reactionary and nothing like Ryu/Ken. Plus, his fists are electric so expect them to do something there. I don't want him because Jin is clearly far more interesting, with his laser eyes and devil wings, but he's still different.

 

[Graizen]

So, little Agumon question:

Do you think the presence of characters like Bowser and Ridley in Super Smash Bros make Agumon's presence in the game less interesting? Some people compared the characters and came to the conclusion that Agumon was just another "fire-breathing lizard".

 

[pupNapoleon]

So, little Agumon question:

Do you think the presence of characters like Bowser and Ridley in Super Smash Bros make Agumon's presence in the game less interesting? Some people compared the characters and came to the conclusion that Agumon was just another "fire-breathing lizard".

A lot of my perception of a good/interesting character in smash follows the rule of Silhouette- does their frame indicate a very different playstyle?
This sounds trivial, but it showcases a lot.
- to Start, this means the characters will be easily distinguishable from others in a chaotic distance
- it means the creativity inspired by frame alone will be a good set up for moveset (hello Piranha!)
- It just adds variety. Unconsciously, the more we keep to differences in simplicity adds to a nuanced complexity.
The meme of 'more sword characters' is from similarly framed characters in silhouette.

I would also argue that Agumon's thing is not being a fire-breathing lizard. This argument is equivalent to the anime swordsman argument, even down to the phrase- it goes 'weapon type-species type' in classification.
However, in addition to frame, which Agumon shares with none, I think that character concept is important.
Is Agumon a fire breathing Lizard? yes.
Is that his schtick? No.
He is a character you must nuture to grow, and you see that happen in fight. That's his thing.

 

[Fire Scyther]

Maybe a little yeah since there are actually a bunch of other more interesting Digimon that I'd rather see before him who are equally as iconic such as the Palmon line, the Leomon Line, the Guilmon Line, the Renamon line, all the Angels and Devils, etc. Heck, even WarGreymon himself is a really good option but that'd be like putting Amy before Sonic due to Agumon's status as the face of the series. Though not necessarily lesser interesting since if you compare the other big heavy beasts (Bowser, Charizard, Ridley), Agumon is much smaller and nimble who relies a lot on combat attacks such as punching and kicking and the Digivolution mechanic could add more flavor to his moveset overall. (That is if War Greymon is playable before Greymon itself)

I'd love to be wrong in my case of him being the least interesting Digimon choice out there, too.

 

[傑明洛]

Honestly, I never really considered Killik. I like him but he's not a favourite of mine and he's not the embodiment of the game's plot that helmetless Nightmare is. I wouldn't mind him but I don't think him likely.



Really? All I remember of his backstory was "He sensed evil and jumped through a portal to stop it.".



Yep. I could refute the rebuttle but hopefully I've made my point already.
Agumon's relative agility, slippery movement and high-motion attacks set him apart in his base form. And yes, he does have potential to go beyond that form with a character gimmick. Even if every pokemon does, too.
Lloyd, likewise, has a lot of personality in his movements and some goofy, offhand hitboxes as a result. Plus, he has a tonne of ways to move about in the air with his sword specials.
Heihatchi is a close quarters, stationary fighter by nature. Very reactionary and nothing like Ryu/Ken. Plus, his fists are electric so expect them to do something there. I don't want him because Jin is clearly far more interesting, with his laser eyes and devil wings, but he's still different.

I also would rather have Jin, for the longest time I thought he was the main character of the series lol
I honestly don't know much about Lloyd and his series, but the reason I'm tired of anime sword fighters is because they feel generic to me compared to other characters. A big part of this is because of all the Marth clones, but also their physical attacks and the way most people go around rapidly swinging their swords around has gotten stale to me. IDK, I'm just burnt out on anime swordfighters and when another gets added, they quickly get boring for me personally. I think the other main reason I'm tired of them is because most of them tend to be high tier, making lots of people pick them, and then smash matches lose some of their charm cause instead of the other cartoonish characters with more unique moves and personality, you see all of these anime humanoid characters with swords. That's just how I feel from my experience

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly, I never really considered Killik. I like him but he's not a favourite of mine and he's not the embodiment of the game's plot that helmetless Nightmare is. I wouldn't mind him but I don't think him likely.



Really? All I remember of his backstory was "He sensed evil and jumped through a portal to stop it.".

well kilik is my favourite so thats why id prefer him, he did have an important role in the plot at one point being the one who destroyed soul edge in the first soul calibur

link's backstory also speaks of an evil sorcerer, reminiscent of agahinm, think it was described as a wind sorcerer but this was before vaati, anyway link is also shown retrieving the master sword in a forest, everything suggests that hes more of a combination of several incarnations rather than any one individual one

So, little Agumon question:

Do you think the presence of characters like Bowser and Ridley in Super Smash Bros make Agumon's presence in the game less interesting? Some people compared the characters and came to the conclusion that Agumon was just another "fire-breathing lizard".

nope, if people wish to rule out a character just casue its a little similar to another then soon theyll be left with no one

 

[Graizen]

VERY IMPORTANT

 

[fogbadge]

VERY IMPORTANT

evidently he doesnt realise that fun is subjective and everyone has their own idea of it, for example he cleared thinks terry is very fun but i think he looks super boring

 

[Megadoomer]

evidently he doesnt realise that fun is subjective and everyone has their own idea of it, for example he cleared thinks terry is very fun but i think he looks super boring

Have you played as him? He can do some pretty crazy combos, and this is coming from someone who's generally terrible at combos. It helps that moves like Power Dunk or Burn Knuckle (sorry, POWAH DUNK and BARN NACKU) are really satisfying to land.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sakurai meant that he chooses characters based on their movesets and enjoyability, not based on their popularity. If the idea of Digivilution interests him we might very well see Digimon get a character.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Fun can mean a variety of things

 

[fogbadge]

Have you played as him? He can do some pretty crazy combos, and this is coming from someone who's generally terrible at combos. It helps that moves like Power Dunk or Burn Knuckle (sorry, POWAH DUNK and BARN NACKU) are really satisfying to land.

So? Don’t mean he ain’t boring

Sakurai meant that he chooses characters based on their movesets and enjoyability, not based on their popularity. If the idea of Digivilution interests him we might very well see Digimon get a character.

Well that’s kind of my point, we have no way of knowing if sakurai would think he’s fun

 

[Graizen]

What you guys think about this?

Terry's alts INCLUDE DESIGNS FROM ANIME

AGUMON'S POTENTIAL HAS BEEN EXPANDED

— Robin 🏳️‍🌈🍉 (@Sylvemon) November 6, 2019

 

[Eldrake]

I'd be positively thrilled if the anime theme songs made it.

 

[fogbadge]

What you guys think about this?

Terry's alts INCLUDE DESIGNS FROM ANIME

AGUMON'S POTENTIAL HAS BEEN EXPANDED

— Robin 🏳️‍🌈🍉 (@Sylvemon) November 6, 2019

perhaps an alt based on tai and maybe one on guilmon

I'd be positively thrilled if the anime theme songs made it.

it would be nice to hear butter-fly, biggest dreamer and english theme

then again none of the anime's have their themes in the game

 

[chocolatejr9]

What you guys think about this?

Terry's alts INCLUDE DESIGNS FROM ANIME

AGUMON'S POTENTIAL HAS BEEN EXPANDED

— Robin 🏳️‍🌈🍉 (@Sylvemon) November 6, 2019

Well, if Pokemon, Final Fantasy, and SNK can get away with referencing anime, then I think Digimon can, too.

 

[ryuu seika]

What you guys think about this?

Terry's alts INCLUDE DESIGNS FROM ANIME

AGUMON'S POTENTIAL HAS BEEN EXPANDED

— Robin 🏳️‍🌈🍉 (@Sylvemon) November 6, 2019

A Data Squad alt is all but confirmed. And no more claiming that we can't have WarGreymon.

 

[Fire Scyther]

WarGreymon first appeared in the Digimon Pendulum virtual pets just like Agumon so that point was moot anyways

 

[ArchRanger]

VERY IMPORTANT

View attachment 245479

I feel this gives Agumon a decent boost in chances but there is still a couple of hurdles left for him to join. The biggest ones are competitor IPs within Bandai Namco. With both the Lloyd and Heihachi Mii costumes missing, I have a strong feeling that we will see Tales Of get upgraded from Mii costume to a character but I’m not too sure about Tekken due to Sakurai’s comment about a moveset before. Who knows though, we all know his comments don’t age well when talking across console generations so maybe they’ve figured out a way. Still hoping our digital buddy makes it in at some point.

 

[傑明洛]

To me, the biggest hurdle seems to be getting outsiders to get interested in him cause I've read so many comments and I feel Agumon gets so much unnecessary hate from others. People tend to brush him off as a Pokemon clone that originated as an anime character, when in fact he started as a tamagotchi and a video game character before the anime, plus, although there's a few similarities, you have to be really ignorant to think Digimon is a rip-off of Pokemon. It just feels like there's this weird kind of hatred that comes from Nintendo Pokemon fans as if it'd kill them if a Digimon got in Smash, like gtfoh. Out of the Bandai Namco reps, I just think Agumon makes the most sense cause I think he'd be more unique than the others and I think there should be a rep from the Bandai side, and Digimon is their most popular franchise iirc.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Also, there aren't many Namco characters that don't have some sort of obstacle in the way, if they got enough demand in the first place. Not even a Tekken character is a guarantee due to how much effort it would take to translate 3D arena moves into 2 and a half D, even if they skipped over Heihachi.

Plus, as we've seen with , Sakurai acknowledges that the anime side for anything exists.

 

[fogbadge]

To me, the biggest hurdle seems to be getting outsiders to get interested in him cause I've read so many comments and I feel Agumon gets so much unnecessary hate from others. People tend to brush him off as a Pokemon clone that originated as an anime character, when in fact he started as a tamagotchi and a video game character before the anime, plus, although there's a few similarities, you have to be really ignorant to think Digimon is a rip-off of Pokemon. It just feels like there's this weird kind of hatred that comes from Nintendo Pokemon fans as if it'd kill them if a Digimon got in Smash, like gtfoh. Out of the Bandai Namco reps, I just think Agumon makes the most sense cause I think he'd be more unique than the others and I think there should be a rep from the Bandai side, and Digimon is their most popular franchise iirc.

they should learn to love both

and yokai watch for good measure

 

[傑明洛]

they should learn to love both

and yokai watch for good measure

I agree, they should but having a lot of poketards against him definitely adds an unnecessary hurdle, not to mention everyone believing he's from an anime and therefore doesn't qualify. In comparison, I see a lot less hating on Yokai watch for some reason...

 

[Fire Scyther]

While you're not wrong, the Digimon fanbase is still quite huge from what we've seen (financially it tops any Nintendo property that isn't Mario or Pokemon) and would be glad to receive Agumon in Smash.

Because let's be real, every character has their own fanbase and hatebase due to the game having a huge audience it would be literally impossible to please all of them. If people whine about Agumon being in Smash, they are really just a*holes if a character they don't even have to buy is in the game since we don't deserve the level of dedication Sakurai put into his game and I doubt any other game will come as close as this.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I agree, they should but having a lot of poketards against him definitely adds an unnecessary hurdle, not to mention everyone believing he's from an anime and therefore doesn't qualify. In comparison, I see a lot less hating on Yokai watch for some reason...

Yokai Watch doesn't get much attention in Smash circles. As we all know, the less attention you have, the less hate there is.

 

[fogbadge]

Yokai Watch doesn't get much attention in Smash circles. As we all know, the less attention you have, the less hate there is.

which is a shame and a good thing

 

[Eldrake]

This thread when people call Agumon an anime character in a nutshell.

 

[Fire Scyther]

What can ya say? Its a common misconception, just like how people say Geno is irrelevant, Lloyd is another anime swordfighter, Doom is way too violent and Crash is a Sony character, lol

 

[fogbadge]

What can ya say? Its a common misconception, just like how people say Geno is irrelevant, Lloyd is another anime swordfighter, Doom is way too violent and Crash is a Sony character, lol

what are the argument for geno's relevance out of curiosity? relevancy doest matter for smash we all know that, but what currently makes him relevant

 

[Fire Scyther]

Geno has no real legacy and he's mostly wanted due to the people who grew up with Super Mario RPG, which is one of the most influential and iconic RPG games out there. It also helped the Mario cast develop as characters rather than icons so in a viewpoint Geno means so much for their fans as Agumon means to me and their fans.

 

[fogbadge]

Geno has no real legacy and he's mostly wanted due to the people who grew up with Super Mario RPG, which is one of the most influential and iconic RPG games out there. It also helped the Mario cast develop as characters rather than icons so in a viewpoint Geno means so much for their fans as Agumon means to me and their fans.

im not sure the mario gang did much developing until the n64/gc days but thats just me

i guess having not grown up with smrpg (we didnt get that til the wii days) contributes to why i dont get his popularity, is it really all just nostalgia?

 

[Voodoo7995]

Agumon.... Definately makes my top 30 wishlist

 

[Eldrake]

I am currently in a digimon mood, so I decided to come up with potential spirit battles for Digimon while it's still there. Knowing that anime references are okay for third party characters means that I could come up with a few neat ones. For a little bit of variety, I included a human character from the games.

Disclaimer: These spirit battle ideas won't make assumptions about Agumon's gameplay mechanics, whether it's about digivolution or, if he do digivolve, what forms he will have, or any of his moves really, final smash included. I will mention alternate costumes too by color name (generally). If you're unsure about how the alternate costume looks, check out https://www.ssbwiki.com/Alternate_costume_(SSBU) to see.

Spoiler: Spirit Battle Concepts

Gabumon
Rank: Novice
Fighter: Curry Blue Pichu. Curry Blue Wolf (representing Garurumon) reinforcement
Stage: Unsure
Conditions: Reinforcements will appear after an enemy is KO'd
The enemy breathes fire (representing Blue Blaster and Howling Blaster)

Veemon
Rank: Novice
Fighter: Yellow Sonic. Cyan Captain Falcon (representing ExVeemon) reinforcement
Stage: Unsure
Conditions: Reinforcements will appear after an enemy is KO'd
Strong Wind after a little while (representing ExVeemon as a member of the Wind Guardians family)

Guilmon
Rank: Novice
Fighter: Red Yoshi. Red Bowser (representing Growlmon) reinforcement
Stage: Unsure
Conditions: Reinforcements will appear after an enemy is KO'd
The enemy is easily distracted by items
Certain items will appear in large numbers
Item: Food

Renamon
Rank: Advanced
Fighter: Yellow Sheik w/ Invisible Ivysaur ally
Stage: Suzaku Castle
Conditions: The enemy has increased move speed
The enemy has increased jump power
The enemy ally favors side special (representing Diamond Storm)

Angemon
Rank: Advanced
Fighter: Blue Pit
Stage: Skyworld
Conditions: The enemy favors side special (representing Hand of Fate)
The enemy has an extra midair jump

Stingmon
Rank: Advanced
Fighter: Green Corrin
Stage: Halberd
Conditions: The enemy favors side special in the air (representing Spiking Strike)
The enemy's side special has increased power

Tyrannomon
Rank: Advanced
Fighter: Red Bowser
Stage: Gerudo Valley (representing Ancient Dino Region)
Conditions: Stamina Battle
The enemy favors neutral special (representing Fire Breath)
The enemy has increased defense

Leomon
Rank: Advanced
Fighter: Orange Incineroar
Stage: Kongo Jungle
Conditions: The enemy starts the battle with a Killing Edge (representing Leomon's weapon)
The enemy's melee weapons have increased power
The enemy is easily distracted by items
Item: Killing Edge

Angewomon
Rank: Ace
Fighter: Default Palutena w/ Blue Pit ally (The ally representing Angemon) (Had Zelda kept Arrow of Light, Angewomon would have been represented by White Zelda instead)
Stage: Palutena's Temple
Conditions: The enemy heals when at critical damage (representing the healing version of Heaven's Charm)
The enemy's special attacks has increased power

SkullGreymon
Rank: Ace
Fighter: Giant Grey Bowser
Stage: Coliseum [Final Destination form]
Conditions: The floor is poisonous
The enemy is giant
The enemy has super armor but moves slower

Myotismon
Rank: Ace
Fighter: White Ganondorf w/ 4 Tiny Navy Meta Knight allies (representing Grisly Wings)
Stage: Dracula's Castle
Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win
Join forces with a CPU ally [Blue Robin] (representing Wizardmon)
You lose if your CPU ally is KO'd

Diaboromon
Rank: Ace
Fighter: Black Dark Samus. 8 Black Dark Samus reinforcement [3 spawns at a time]
Stage: Final Destination (Battlefield form)
Conditions: Timed Stamina Battle [1:30/2:00 minutes] [Main Dark Samus has regular stamina. Allies has meager stamina by comparison] (You gotta defeat the real Dark Samus before it nukes the world)
Defeat the main fighter to win
Reinforcements will appear during the battle
Item: Timer (Represents internet lag)

Beelzemon
Rank: Ace
Fighter: Advent Black Cloud
Stage: Midgar
Conditions: The enemy starts the battle with a Super Scope
The enemy is hard to launch
You are easy to launch

Machinedramon
Rank: Legendary
Fighter: Giant Grey Meta Ridley
Soundtrack: Machinedramon Battle Theme (Digimon World version)
Stage: Wily Castle [Final Destination form]
Conditions: The enemy is giant
The enemy has super armor and is hard to launch or make flinch
The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash (Plasma Scream representing Giga Cannon)

Mameo
Rank: Legendary
Fighter: Yellow Joker w/ Agumon ally. Giant Grey Meta Ridley reinforcement
Soundtrack: Machinedramon Battle Theme (Digimon World: Next Order version)
Stage: Wuhu Island (If File Island isn't the Digimon stage)
Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win
The main enemy tends to avoid conflict
Reinforcements will appear during the battle

I would also like to give honorary mentions to characters who fits specific fighters, but didn't write up spirit battles for.

Honorary Mentions
Biyomon: Pink Falco
Wizardmon: Blue Robin
Etemon: Yellow Donkey Kong
Lillymon: Pink Daisy
Devimon: Purple Dark Pit
Sukamon: Classic Wario (w/ Tiny Pink Yoshi?)
Numemon: Default Yoshi (Note: Would also be the weakest spirit)
Snatchmon: Purple Mewtwo (Note: Likely impossible since an official render doesn't seem to exist as far as I can tell)
Almost any of the in-training digimon: Kirby matching its color.
(If Agumon's final smash feature Omnimon) Omnimon: Agumon with Final Smash conditions (Potentially WarGreymon in place of Agumon, if WarGreymon is a digivolution form)

 

[Fire Scyther]

Those are some really good spirits my dude! I had an idea as to how one of Digimon's most important mechanics are the Digivolution so most spirits can be enhanced into their evolutions (Ex. Gabumon into MetalGarurumon, Gatomon into Angewomon, Guilmon into Gallantmon, etc)

 

[fogbadge]

Those are some really good spirits my dude! I had an idea as to how one of Digimon's most important mechanics are the Digivolution so most spirits can be enhanced into their evolutions (Ex. Gabumon into MetalGarurumon, Gatomon into Angewomon, Guilmon into Gallantmon, etc)

thats what i assumed with the pokemon spirits but the only enhanceable ones were ones with different forms so i can see the same thing happening

 

[Graizen]

A quick mockup of some Digimon Mii Costumes that could come with Agumon made by my friend Turb0k

 

[fogbadge]

A quick mockup of some Digimon Mii Costumes that could come with Agumon made by my friend Turb0k

View attachment 245978

looking good

 

[Graizen]

I recommend everyone take a look at this link!
The support some people give to Agumon is wonderful!

https://fantendo.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate_x_Digimon?comments_page=1

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Has this idea been shared? What if similar to() that Agumon functioned the same way switching to one of the three?

Agumon>Greymon>MetalGreymon

And his Final Smash being either WarGreymon or Omnimon.

 

[Graizen]

Has this idea been shared? What if similar to() that Agumon functioned the same way switching to one of the three?

Agumon>Greymon>MetalGreymon

And his Final Smash being either WarGreymon or Omnimon.

Yes! But some people think this will give alot of work to make the character.