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The bonds of Mother and Child are strong, Rosalina and Luma to return!

Killo89

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I mean you're making it sound like it would be a huge effort when it really wouldn't be. They put far more effort into other remade Final Smash attacks like King Dedede's and Bowser's than Rosalina having the Observatory whizz by would ever require. It doesn't even need to be a cinematic cutscene. They could literally just have it whizz across the stage in a straight line and it would already be 100% more representative of the character and more practical than her current one.
Yeah. It's huge effort compared to reusing her previous FS while adding little dots to the star's branch. And I agreed they were lazy with some parts of the game. What do you want me to say next? I agree. They should have changed it, and they haven't. And that's a shame.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina's final smash wasn't that good in Smash 4 but they tried to fixed it with the new draw in mechanic. Did it work? Not too well but, to be honest, it doesn't matter. Not all final smashes are going to be amazing and even Sakurai and the development team know that they don't have a place in competitive play, they literally said that in the direct. So, don't be bored too much by that.
I think another thing that should be noted is that flinchless hitboxes don't deliver any kind of vertical knockback. As such, the Grand Star wouldn't be able to draw in fighters unless it uses the same kind of special coding that Palutena's Black Hole Laser has.
 

MezzoMe

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One can't just bring the Comet Observatory, or anything really, from a Wii U game to a Switch one, for how little difference there is between the two system's capabilities, all non-port/deluxe edition games on the Switch use Physically-Based Rendering, which means they'd have to remake every material and replace every Specular texture with Metallic, Roughness and AO textures, as even assuming the game can read Specular textures, non-PBR and PBR materials always clash together because the first light up like a lantern in response to light while the seconds can react in very different ways to the the same light source

Anyway, Boost Grab is still a thing, which I find to be one of her most under-used assets, as it not only is a 3% free damage on her grab, the ability to pivot grab to cover both sides with her Pivot Boost Grab. Couple that with how far Luma goes when dethered and you've got a great tool making 8 hot spots with his 4 different versions(combinations of Forward/Backward and Normal/Pivot). Or at least that would have been if half of those hitboxes dealt 3%, so hopefully this is another Ultimate's multipliers make that one a hot spot as well

Also if you are looking for the rest of what he wrote, he actually replied 6 times to Dabuz instead of making a reply chain
 
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Killo89

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Some new gameplay footage. Also, we've only seen one of her victory poses and I'm so eager to know what the other two look like. I know Palutena's got some really nice new ("remixed") victory animations where she floats around a bit and I really want to see Rosalina and Luma do that.
 

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Ahh I just really want to see more gameplay with Luma desynced! I feel like playing with Rosalina and Luma separate will be more fun now
 

Killo89

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Check out that user's channel, they've got two more Rosa gameplay videos. We also see the little "cutscene-like" dramatic video effects when she activates Grand Star (I suppose it's its new name) and it zooms in on her deploying her arms and all. I like that a lot, really makes the Final Smash experience so much more epic.

I'd like to see the following victory pose be used again...

View attachment 177252
That is undoubtedly my favorite victory pose. It's the same posture she has in the Galaxy games when she's on the Observatory and Polari's next to her, and I love that idea for a victory pose. Though, I wouldn't be that disappointed if they removed it for something more dynamic. I... really want her to move a bit more and not let Luma steal all the public!
 

Iron Kraken

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Some new gameplay footage. Also, we've only seen one of her victory poses and I'm so eager to know what the other two look like. I know Palutena's got some really nice new ("remixed") victory animations where she floats around a bit and I really want to see Rosalina and Luma do that.
Getting hits with landing Nair looks like it's going to lead into some guaranteed combos for sure.

Also, I'm realizing what a gift it is that Rosalina's up-throw to up-air (and up-tilt!) is still a thing even though most characters have had their braindead throw combos removed in this game. Heck, up-throw to up-air might even be better in Ultimate because even when it's not a true combo it will be extremely easy to punish the air dodge in this game.
 
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NeonNote

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Luma not hovering offstage a bit before dropping anymore is such crap. I don't get why she of all top tiers got these horrible nerfs. They had better be setting her up for the Marcina treatment.
 

Tizio Random

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Luma not hovering offstage a bit before dropping anymore is such crap. I don't get why she of all top tiers got these horrible nerfs. They had better be setting her up for the Marcina treatment.
I don't know, the idea of falling rapid jab or charge smashes below the stage isn't that bad to me. It's a different kind of mix up but you can still do Luma Shot > upair in the air.

Also, the more I see Ultimate Rosa the more I'm liking her and many people that played her feel the same. New nair is amazing, has still great range, very few endlag and lasts for at least 24 frames which is a lot. Also, nair launches upwards so nair > upair is a new combo and potentially a new kill confirm. Jab is still good just not 90% of neutral anymore and upair even if nerfed is still incredible with the new engine (frame trapping and punishing Directional Airdodges).

I'm very excited to play this new version of her.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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The nerf to Wario's recovery options has made me feel concerned that Rosalina's overall recovery could be taking a hit as well.

Rosalina had one of the best recoveries in terms of distance covered, but having no damaging hitboxes did mean that the recovery could be intercepted if Rosalina isn't careful. And of course, the nature of how Launch Star works could lead to accidental SDs if Rosalina is below a ledge, and facing away from it.
 

Tizio Random

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The nerf to Wario's recovery options has made me feel concerned that Rosalina's overall recovery could be taking a hit as well.

Rosalina had one of the best recoveries in terms of distance covered, but having no damaging hitboxes did mean that the recovery could be intercepted if Rosalina isn't careful. And of course, the nature of how Launch Star works could lead to accidental SDs if Rosalina is below a ledge, and facing away from it.
Her recovery is the exact same as Smash 4 so no nerfs no buffs. Also, a good player shouldn't constantly SD because of that but yeah, that happens even to the best of us.
 

ChikoLad

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I just noticed that the announcer says "Rosalina & Luma win!" instead of "Rosalina & Luma wins!". Looks like they made that extra sound file for her. Cute attention to detail.
 

Iron Kraken

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Luma not hovering offstage a bit before dropping anymore is such crap. I don't get why she of all top tiers got these horrible nerfs. They had better be setting her up for the Marcina treatment.
This could well be a good thing. Having Luma fall right away sounds like it would be far easier to snipe kills when the opponent is trying to recover below the stage.

Also, pretty much all Smash 4 top tiers have been nerfed for Ultimate, not just Rosa.

The nerf to Wario's recovery options has made me feel concerned that Rosalina's overall recovery could be taking a hit as well.

Rosalina had one of the best recoveries in terms of distance covered, but having no damaging hitboxes did mean that the recovery could be intercepted if Rosalina isn't careful. And of course, the nature of how Launch Star works could lead to accidental SDs if Rosalina is below a ledge, and facing away from it.
As Tizio Random Tizio Random said, Rosa's recovery is exactly the same in Ultimate as it was in Smash 4. Considering that many other characters have had their recoveries nerfed, that makes Rosa's recovery relatively better in Ultimate than it was in Smash 4.
 
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Tizio Random

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Oh and by the way, they buffed her "Alright!" victory pose (2:58 in case timestamp doesn't work), it's too good:

 

ChikoLad

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In case it needed to be proven, Luma can still attack while Rosalina is buried, and from there I think we can reasonably infer it can also attack while she's stunned, asleep, shield broken, etc.

https://youtu.be/GeXeASBN_-8?t=70
We don't even need to assume since we've seen him attack during basically all of those situations at this point. It was always a baseless assumption that stemmed from people not realising Luma had a "panic" animation in Smash Wii U/3DS.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Theoretically, it should. If an attack's damage output is low, but its KBG is high, even a 1% damage increase can drastically increase the attack's KO potential. I'll put down a table example list below, just to show what I mean...

Note: All data below uses Mario as the test subject, he's on the ground, and placed on the center of an Omega form stage. Stale moves is also ignored.

Damage Dealt | BKB | KBG | KB Angle | KO%
1% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 744% - 745%
2% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 557%
3% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 444% - 445%
4% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 369%
5% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 315%
6% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 274%
7% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 242%
8% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 216%
9% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 195%
10% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 177%
11% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 161%
12% | 20 | 100 | Sakurai Angle | 148%
Of course, some attacks are meant to have weaker knockback values so that it's easier to deliver follow-up attacks.
 
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Iron Kraken

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With the 50% damage increase in de-tethered Luma combined with the universal 20% damage increase due to 1v1 No Items, de-tethered Luma attacks are going to be doing 80% more damage compared to what we know from Smash 4. We're going to be seeing de-tethered Luma attacks killing *much* earlier compared to what we saw in Smash 4.
 
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MezzoMe

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Again, this is only true if the multiplier gets applied to the base damage and isn't separated from it, otherwise dealing 12% more damage simply means to KO 12% earlier
 

Iron Kraken

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Again, this is only true if the multiplier gets applied to the base damage and isn't separated from it, otherwise dealing 12% more damage simply means to KO 12% earlier
Every de-tethered Luma attack that we have seen used so far has done 50% more damage compared to the same Luma attacks when Luma is tethered.
 

MezzoMe

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Every de-tethered Luma attack that we have seen used so far has done 50% more damage compared to the same Luma attacks when Luma is tethered.
That's not what I said.

The knockback formula in Sm4sh reads as follows

KuroganeHammer said:
((((((v+bd*s)/10+(((v+bd*s)*bd*(1-(1-s)*0.3))/20))*1.4*(200/(w+100)))+18)*(g/100))+b)*r

Where


v = Victim percent
bd = Base damage
s = Stale move multiplier
w = Target weight
g = KBG
b = BKB
r = Ratio where:
Rage Multiplier = Variable
Crouch Cancel = 0.85
Grounded Meteor = 0.8
Charging Smash = 1.2
Multipliers affect this formula only for what concerns v, which in the past made staling having nearly no effect on knockback, until Brawl slapped it everywhere there was bd. Unless they did this bandaid solution, the two multipliers will only have a minimal impact on knockback, as will the SH multiplier
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Following what MezzoMe MezzoMe said, other factors need to be taken into account. Stale-move negation can weaken the amount of knockback an attack deals, which can consequently cause the attack to KO later than when stale moves is turned off (such as in Training).

Also, size changing items, like the Super Mushroom, can adjust a fighter's weight and knockback taken multiplier. As for the Metal Box, fighters who pick that up will receive a 4.5x weight multiplier, and the total amount of knockback that they take gets subtracted by 30 units; knockback resistance gets applied after all the other calculations have been made.

On an additional note, when a fighter is buried, he/she has to take more than 70 units of knockback in order to be launched. However, fighters also take 0.7x knockback while buried.
 

Killo89

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This is a brand new artwork for Baby Rosalina...? I'm quite skeptical about this. I don't know why they need a new artwork for her, but well, here it is I guess.
 

Killo89

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Following GameXplain's video about spirits, I've collected the two instances where Rosalina appears paired up with another spirit:

That's a younger Samus from Other M, a game of course loved and appreciated by all. She's a rebellious soldier in Adam's team in this game if I remember well? She's becoming an adult and loses friends, wins against monsters, stuff like that.

1542625727455.png

Next is Daroach, who, if I'm not wrong, is quite related to space stuff and all with his Nebula attacks. I can't think of anything else to go with him, though.

Also, as 3D trophies are now gone I really want to see a Young Rosalina spirit... that'd please, I think, every Super Mario Galaxy player while making the storybook "relevant" again...
 

NintenRob

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Following GameXplain's video about spirits, I've collected the two instances where Rosalina appears paired up with another spirit:

That's a younger Samus from Other M, a game of course loved and appreciated by all. She's a rebellious soldier in Adam's team in this game if I remember well? She's becoming an adult and loses friends, wins against monsters, stuff like that.

View attachment 178627
Next is Daroach, who, if I'm not wrong, is quite related to space stuff and all with his Nebula attacks. I can't think of anything else to go with him, though.

Also, as 3D trophies are now gone I really want to see a Young Rosalina spirit... that'd please, I think, every Super Mario Galaxy player while making the storybook "relevant" again...
Ehh, I don't think there's meant to be any connection here, they're all player characters, and you can have any spirit on any character. It's the opponent that try and tie into in a special way

As for Daroach, he does travel through space to find loot to steal. And are referred to as space thieves in Star Allies.

But as for Nebula, that's actually a mistranslation

It's a dark star with one eye that possesses Daroach called Dark Nebula, but it's actual name is Dark 0, a member of the Dark Matter family
 

Tizio Random

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Also, as 3D trophies are now gone I really want to see a Young Rosalina spirit... that'd please, I think, every Super Mario Galaxy player while making the storybook "relevant" again...
OH MY GOD YES PLEASE. It's about time we remember Rosalina's storybook and her origin story, too much time has passed...
 

Tizio Random

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All of Rosa's alt skin in Ultimate with the full 3D renders:

 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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So I guess the most notable difference is that Rosalina's shoes are silver, regardless of which palette you choose. That's different from Smash 3DS / Wii U, where the shoes received shading effects that gave them a different coloring than what the textures would suggest.
 

MezzoMe

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Indeed, the actual in-game textures had them black no matter the alt, but although the shoes used the same maps as her dress, they were assigned their own materials, allowing for any sort of expression to change them only. I have yet to understand why two thirds of her dress had a differently-named material than the lowest third, though.
Instead, Switch games I've seen tend to group everything under two or three materials at best, a single texture and its material covering at least half a model instead of 15-20. I guess the memory saved from this is what allowed the use of Physically-Based Rendering
 
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