The Big MI Discussion Topic

[Roller]

lol why do people care about matchups so much

Yeah. Like. Why be afraid of the big bad ?

 

[Juggleguy]

is one of the reasons I re-quit Brawl. I got three stocked by Kain in a friendly at PS3.

 

[clowsui]

lol why do people care about matchups so much

because when you're being lazy it's the best way to evaluate skill without focusing on specifics

also what tech said

but you know what, you're right gio (and tech). most marth mains are prone to bias. that is, marth is easy to make excuses with because his margin of error is slim. so i'll go through the facts w my own thought process and demonstrate that i am better than other marths and capable of seeing past this pathetic mindset.


Mikeneko has a winning record vs Otori, the best record vs M2K in seriouslies, and a winning record vs Maguro. He has an even W/L ratio vs Brood, a fantastic ratio vs Nietono (i don't think Nietono has beaten Mikeneko more than twice), never lost vs Abadango. He has a positive record vs Kuroobi, Shu, and dio. He has a positive record vs Yui. He's beaten masha once in pools. He's beaten Havok. He's beaten Suinoko at least once (just barely).

Looking at his losses, most notably he has a negative record vs RAIN. He lost to KyuB once. He's lost to Daiki's MK at least once, idk about the rest of the times. He's lost vs Luminous at least once, maybe twice. He has a negative record vs Shogun (which is wtf, shogun looks like the easiest to beat as Marth lol), though he DID lose to Shogun twice at the same tourney.

So I'd actually like to revise my earlier statement about Mikeneko [being better than the other Marths but not a tier better]. He's very clearly a better Marth than all the other ones by virtue of his stellar (and still improving) record, arguably a whole tier better by virtue of this record alone.

Possible objections to this claim:
- Suboptimal play in several MUs. Doesn't matter too much in the long run, so long as he gets the W it's what matters.
- Doesn't have to worry about being CP'd. Marth gets weaker the closer your stage list approaches the middle of the spectrum (but gets stronger the more liberal your stagelist is, Marth is seriously good on Norfair Brinstar RC...). This point is difficult to argue against but even with the addition of YI + LC he's done better, so going by that data it's possible to extrapolate that he is unlikely to do worse w a larger stage list.
- Mikeneko only plays in at most one DE bracket and one SE bracket, meaning he plays in 1.5 events as opposed to foreign players that typically play in a full 3 events (singles pools, singles, doubles). He faces the least amount of fatigue wrt all marths. This is probably the strongest argument "against" mikeneko but also the most subjective one. tl,dr; why am I not doing this for the Ohio PR

 

[Gifts]

Tl;dr

Mid level player trying to analyze high level game play.. Something seems wrong here.

 

[clowsui]

o

welp

idk.

 

[Apasher]

So it feels like I have gotten 10x better at Brawl just from walking instead of dashing.

 

[kd-]

Tl;dr

Mid level player Commentator trying to analyze high level game play.. Something seems wrong here.

Fixed.

Also, it's not like you have to be a pro player to acknowledge and understand good play

 

[clowsui]

Thank you Chad

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Im bad but i understand that chad is worst

 

[Ori_bro]

So it feels like I have gotten 10x better at Brawl just from walking instead of dashing.

good .

 

[kd-]

Im bad but i understand that chad is worst

Lmao =/

MM me Rainier. Melee.

 

[Juggleguy]

Lmao =/

MM me Rainier. Melee.

$20 sidebet on Chad if his rage level is below 50%

$20 sidebet on Rainier if Chad's rage level is above 50%

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i'm so proud of you

Lmao, I've learned much.

Also, ruins lives.

 

[Apasher]

is free.

 

[kd-]

$20 sidebet on Rainier if Chad's rage level is above 50%

I'd take that bet

 

[Juggleguy]

:>: +1 kd

Tries to sidebet against himself in order to profit from Smash

 

[since]

is free.

This.
I can deal so much damage to him without even looking at the screen...

 

[kd-]

Haha hey it's not like I tried to get you to bet so I could take it or anything.

Besides, MM'ing Hot Arms is profit enough ^_-

 

[Hot_ArmS]

im +$1 in mm's against you

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

haha, me complaining about wolf was a long-running joke that started with kain bodying me at GSS

being bad at a certain matchup just shows you have a weakness to a certain tactic or lack understanding on parts of the game. like me always losing to diddy, i used to be terrible with items. now i'm not.

if you lose to a or something and blame it entirely on the fact that he used , and you dont recognize the other player's skills or your own weaknesses, you'll stay bad forever (hi michigan brawl)



also chi i honestly wasnt aware of mikeneko's win/loss record. it's just that when i watch him play it's so impressive. i really think of him as one of the top players in the world. its cool that we agree. i think marth is possibly amazing, but very very VERY difficult to use. he's like falcon in melee.

 

[Eddie G]

Marth is as straightforward as you're going to get in this wonky *** game. I have crazy respect for the Marth players who are able to do work with him.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Marth is simple.

Its just that when you guess correctly with him, you can.DESTROY people because Marth can handle just about any situation.

However, if you guess wrong with him, you get ****ed up realllllly badly.

People who do really well with Marth are just much smarter than the average high level player.

 

[Apasher]

So Marth is bad.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

No, just most of the players who use him.

 

[clowsui]

haha, me complaining about wolf was a long-running joke that started with kain bodying me at GSS

being bad at a certain matchup just shows you have a weakness to a certain tactic or lack understanding on parts of the game. like me always losing to diddy, i used to be terrible with items. now i'm not.

if you lose to a or something and blame it entirely on the fact that he used , and you dont recognize the other player's skills or your own weaknesses, you'll stay bad forever (hi michigan brawl)



also chi i honestly wasnt aware of mikeneko's win/loss record. it's just that when i watch him play it's so impressive. i really think of him as one of the top players in the world. its cool that we agree. i think marth is possibly amazing, but very very VERY difficult to use. he's like falcon in melee.

pretty much this lol

i am no genius at this game so my marth is bad. but mikeneko is incredibly inspiring, it's ridiculous he's able to do so well with a character that has 0 jank but all the tools to win

 

[Damittom]

I think thats the first semi-inspirational/informative post ive ever read from Gio

Keep it up

 

[Apasher]

I agree with Gio as well.

MU knowledge doesn't get you as far than knowledge of the game overall.

 

[Juggleguy]

Finally someone who acknowledges that Falcon is hard to use in Melee.

(anti-shoutouts to Chad and James in this regard)

 

[clowsui]

Falcon might be hard to use but he's still boring as ****. Seriously. Falcon's ABC dash dance/autocombo/grab bull**** is so dull. The only interesting Falcons might be S2J and Darkrain, as they have a fair number of nuances to overcome the bare minimum amount to be considered unique players.

 

[JTsm]

I will only play Marth in melee. Brawl Marth is too dumb (in fact, every melee char is dumb in Brawl).

I would like to see Gio/Tutu post more often. Such great minds for our community.

Edit: Love Tech/Roller too <3

 

[Apasher]

Movement-based characters in Melee overall are pretty hard imo.

 

[kd-]

Melee is a movement-based game, so saying that is like saying 'Football is a hard game for players with pads'.

And Falcon is easy as sacks, 50% you're in killing percent, backwards grabs EZ techchase years of hit stun he's the Sheik of 2012: get grabs Down-throw fair and the only thing bad about your character is that the recovery is only managable and not 'rly gud lul'

 

[JTsm]

There needs to be more Marth players..... in melee. I wish I can be one of them

 

[Juggleguy]

Melee is a movement-based game, so saying that is like saying 'Football is a hard game for players with pads'.

And Falcon is easy as sacks, 50% you're in killing percent, backwards grabs EZ techchase years of hit stun he's the Sheik of 2012: get grabs Down-throw fair and the only thing bad about your character is that the recovery is only managable and not 'rly gud lul'

Yo, someone be mad.

 

[Apasher]

There needs to be more Marth players..... in melee. I wish I can be one of them

My bad, bro.

 

[zyth]

needs more IMO

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Derailing this thread now.

is incredibly broken and we should just ban him now before he ruins the very existence of Brawl.

There's always multiple MKs in bracket at each event. Broken.

Gio only beat Lain because MK is broken. He has no experience.

MK makes the game stagnant and not original.

Every team in MI events has two MKs despite it being double MK banned.

We have 4 MK users in our PR. That's over 33%!!!!!

MK has a +2 MU with Insanely broken.

Kentucky likes MK ban so we should as well.

MK dominated Apex 2012 despite Japan being bad.

Lain lost to Zero in pools. Zero used MK.

Sparta Kick started placing bad once he stopped using MK. Coincidence? Nope.

Clowsui and I did our best teaming together when he used MK instead of Falco or Marth. Clearly an indication of brokeness.

Tutu and I won Youmacon 2011 because of double MK. Neither of us play MK.

Rabbi beat me the first time we played because of MK.

Gio beat Suyon. Suyon is untouchable except vs MK. Broken.

Gio beat Jcav. We all know is top tier.




The list goes on.

 

[Apasher]

Xatic had to switch to just to beat my

Gio invented double tornado.

Ban that ****.

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

lol tech i agree 100%


and yo, i want in on some melee.

 

[Apasher]

Hi. I lose to Brawl players. I wonder why I keep losing to them. These pesky Brawl players don't know how to play Melee.

No wait, I'm just lacking overall player skill.