The best player(s) for every character.(28.08.15)

[-ACE-]

M2K definitely has the best Sheik .He 6-0'd Plup at SnS. His Sheik is much better. I agree that Plup's sheik is extremely good, but nothing compared to Mew2King. You could probably mention MacD as well for Peach. Although MacD isn't nearly as good, he's still a great Peach player. At SSC and PAX he played very well. As far as Marth I think it's very close between PPMD and M2K. They've gone back and forth. PP might be better right now, but it's close. M2K is at least better on FD. Also, M2K's fox may better than Leffen's once he gets his hand healed. He beat him in game one at PAX with Fox dittoes, and he SD'd twice. I know it was just once and only a single game, but still, it may be something to consider. Armada's Fox is definitely the best right now in my opinion. Just my two cents, I know some of my opinions can be unpopular. Feel free to criticize.

Let me know when m2k beats leffen and mango's foxes in the same day with sheik.

He's fully capable but "much better" is a stretch and the head to head doesn't matter that much.

 

[Happenin' Falcon]

Let me know when m2k beats leffen and mango's foxes in the same day with sheik.

He's fully capable but "much better" is a stretch and the head to head doesn't matter that much.

I love Plup, don't get me wrong, he just doesn't have the experience Jason has. He definitely has the 2nd best sheik, I'll give you that much. His Samus is amazing, though. Nevertheless, I think we'll be seeing another Return of the King soon. Jason looked pretty dominant at PAX, and he hasn't practiced much at all recently with his hand. Still, we'll see how he does playing against the rest of the gods.

 

[-ACE-]

I would never argue he has m2k's experience lmao

 

[Dolla Pills]

Yeah I question this too. HBox recently did a top 10 on his stream, and he put Plup over M2K because although M2K may beat Plup in the ditto, M2K is not going to be beating Mango or Leffen any time soon. So basically, M2K might win the head to head but Plup has the better potential to actually take tournaments. A lot of people were upset by that opinion, but I think it makes perfect sense.

I stand corrected

Although I guess I don't know how much Sheik he used

 

[Plunder]

Yeah I question this too. HBox recently did a top 10 on his stream, and he put Plup over M2K because although M2K may beat Plup in the ditto, M2K is not going to be beating Mango or Leffen any time soon. So basically, M2K might win the head to head but Plup has the better potential to actually take tournaments. A lot of people were upset by that opinion, but I think it makes perfect sense.

Ouch yea d00der this is why it's not wise to ever make such bold statements. M2K's 6-0 destruction on Leffen @ PAX was the complete opposite of this.

The top players are Humans and so are the Gods, their skill and performance comes and goes.

 

[Happenin' Falcon]

Ouch yea d00der this is why it's not wise to ever make such bold statements. M2K's 6-0 destruction on Leffen @ PAX was the complete opposite of this.

The top players are Humans and so are the Gods, their skill and performance comes and goes.

Yeah, I agree.Plup'scareer didn't even start until 2012, and he's never won a big tournament. Meanwhile, M2K got his first major win in 2007 and has won countless tournaments since. You really can't compare them.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

Yo but Yung Scar's return tho

Also Wizzy's name is spelled "Wizzrobe"

 

[Plunder]

During the Bladewise vs M2K hand-warmers....

Vish - "Mew2King was running train on us earlier, it was hard just to not get 3 stocked"
Leffen - ಠ_ಠ .......
....
Vish - haha what?....c'mon man it's not that easy for us...
Leffen - I meannnnn....it's hard for me to NOT 3 stock Mew2King

RIP in PEACE​

LEFFEN​

1994 - 2015
0 - 6
​

​

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

So the fact that Bizz isn't the Ganon king makes me upset. Sure he lost to Kage but mirror matches means that one player is better at that matchup. Bizz has shown dozens of times why he is an amazing Ganon.

As for a really weak argument, Bizz has a GRSmash video

 

[Plunder]

Bizz losing to Kage isn't even a factor really, and I don't think anyone who is smart enough to evaluate a player's skill would consider it that heavily. Dittos rarely mean anything unless it's a very common MU that will occur in top 16 situations a lot (e.g. Fox, Sheik, Marth, Falco dittos).

Kage just flat out has better results since the dawn of competitive Melee, and still gets similar results.

Bizz doesn't play to win, he plays for the people. It would seem that this isn't a popularity contest (judging by the other entries), so I would think all that matters is results and technical proficiency. In those 2 aspects there are actually more Ganons (even lesser known ones) that outperform Bizz.

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

It's def Eddy. 2nd either Blea gelo or abate.

Only South Florida would put Blea even close to Abate.

 

[samoht]

M2K is not going to be beating Mango or Leffen any time soon.

lol it happened 2 days later x)

 

[-ACE-]

Only South Florida would put Blea even close to Abate.

I can def see Blea being third best, sounds like you're sleeping on him tho. Blea is better vs floaties imo and certain spacies' playstyles. The ditto as well, not that it matters.

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

I can def see Blea being third best, sounds like you're sleeping on him tho. Blea is better vs floaties imo and certain spacies' playstyles. The ditto as well, not that it matters.

I'm a Luigi main, I love Blea and he's definitely third, but there's no way he could beat Hax's Falcon in his prime or take multiple games off of Mango's Falco.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm a Luigi main, I love Blea and he's definitely third, but there's no way he could beat Hax's Falcon in his prime or take multiple games off of Mango's Falco.

How do you know that?

http://youtu.be/0z7ZrR8_nZo
He can handle top spacies fairly well...

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

How do you know that?

http://youtu.be/0z7ZrR8_nZo
He can handle top spacies fairly well...

Westballz loses to Luigis everywhere fairly often, hell, Westballz loses fairly often.

 

[-ACE-]

Westballz loses to Luigis everywhere fairly often, hell, Westballz loses fairly often.

But your anecdotal "evidence" stands? Lol.

The less a player travels, the more ignorant the masses are to their skill/achievements.

Blea has had some really close MM's with PPMD's falco FYI, but oh yeah, only tournament sets count right?

Also weston is still the best Falco in the world that doesn't dual main. Playing down his level is comical. Spare yourself.

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

Chudat is best ics

 

[-ACE-]

Chudat is best ics

Still can't put him over wobbles.

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

Blea has had some really close MM's with PPMD's falco FYI, but oh yeah, only tournament sets count right?
.

Of course only tournament sets count. Being able to stay composed in a truly competitive environment is part of being a skilled player.

 

[-ACE-]

Of course only tournament sets count. Being able to stay composed in a truly competitive environment is part of being a skilled player.

MM's and serious matches count to me. But since there's no way to gauge seriousness I'll really only count sober MM's. Sorry but if you lose a MM there's no johns, you chose to accept.

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

Still can't put him over wobbles.

after everyone and their mother found out to play ics, chudat has been the only ics player to make top 8 evo. Can't beat that

 

[-ACE-]

after everyone and their mother found out to play ics, chudat has been the only ics player to make top 8 evo. Can't beat that

Placings look great on paper, don't they?

http://youtu.be/6POvfsHZ0uw

 

[Dolla Pills]

after everyone and their mother found out to play ics, chudat has been the only ics player to make top 8 evo. Can't beat that

lmao did you watch Evo 2013?

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

lmao did you watch Evo 2013?

yep. When did you think people figured out ics? lmao

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

Placings look great on paper, don't they?

http://youtu.be/6POvfsHZ0uw

so chudat beat laudandus, silentwolf (who btw almost beat armada that day), westzballz, and hugs in 1 day alone. Then, takes mango to 1 stock in both games to almost advance passed 7th. Yea placings aren't everything, but chudat's bracket wasn't anywhere close to a cakewalk.


edit: sorry for double post. didn't see the other reply til a few minutes after I replied.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Don't think Hugs has done enough to have his name listed next to Plup for Samus?

 

[-ACE-]

He's making waves lately, and is a much bigger threat than he was 2 years ago, but he's no Plup.

 

[Dolla Pills]

yep. When did you think people figured out ics? lmao

I don't get it, you said no IC's but Chu has made top eight at Evo, but Wobbles got second at 2013

 

[gmBottles]

Lol @ people who think Bizzaro is the best Ganondorf just because he styles on people.
Based on tournament results, Kage and probably Eikelmann are both better than he is.

As for what matches should count when considering skill, I agree with @ -ACE- that MMs and serious friendlies should count. Obviously not as much as a big tournament match, but it definitely still deserves recognition.

 

[BRUJO~]

M2K is not going to be beating Mango or Leffen any time soon.

Lol

 

[Dolla Pills]

Okay guys I was paraphrasing Hbox, it wasn't even my opinion, plz stop laughing at me

 

[-ACE-]

Bizz did just have a killer comeback on fly last weekend. I think he's got his drive back!

 

[Plunder]

I love Bizz. Regardless of his perceived skill he's a great role model for Melee; always about having fun, somehow comes off extremely respectable/humble while at the same time having WWE levels of disrespect and showmanship, and he has a deep passion for the game (you can see him getting choked up when he loses a set he really wanted to win).

 

[gmBottles]

I love Bizz. Regardless of his perceived skill he's a great role model for Melee; always about having fun, somehow comes off extremely respectable/humble while at the same time having WWE levels of disrespect and showmanship, and he has a deep passion for the game (you can see him getting choked up when he loses a set he really wanted to win).

Oh absolutely, I couldn't agree enough. Bizz is one of my favorite smashers. However, that doesn't necessarily make him any better.

Bizz did just have a kill comeback on fly last weekend. I think he's got his drive back!

I hope so, he's a great player to watch!

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

I don't get it, you said no IC's but Chu has made top eight at Evo, but Wobbles got second at 2013

i said after everyone figured out how to play ics at top level, chu has been the only one to make it to top 8 evo. Wobbles made it to evo top 8 and got second, but the top players really didn't fully understand how to play ics yet at that level.



Topic of ganondorf: kage 5-0ed bizz. nuf said.

 

[gmBottles]

i said after everyone figured out how to play ics at top level, chu has been the only one to make it to top 8 evo. Wobbles made it to evo top 8 and got second, but the top players really didn't fully understand how to play ics yet at that level.

Lmao what are you talking about? Chudat pretty much made ICs what they are today a long time ago, so to say that top players didn't understand ICs is simply incorrect. And then Wobbles came along and made them even better, and did even better.

 

[MEnKIRBZ]

Lmao what are you talking about? Chudat pretty much made ICs what they are today a long time ago, so to say that top players didn't understand ICs is simply incorrect. And then Wobbles came along and made them even better, and did even better.

chudat made ics viable, but wobbles took them to the higher level of play. However, after the top players found out how to play against them when they are that good, ics haven't made it to top 8 evo since then....except for.......you guessed it. CHUDAT

 

[gmBottles]

chudat made ics viable, but wobbles took them to the higher level of play. However, after the top players found out how to play against them when they are that good, ics haven't made it to top 8 evo since then....except for.......you guessed it. CHUDAT

Wobbles made it to evo top 8 and got second

And that was in 2013, people definitely knew how to play against ICs then
Also Chu got 8th. 2nd is a bigger deal

 

[Dolla Pills]

chudat made ics viable, but wobbles took them to the higher level of play. However, after the top players found out how to play against them when they are that good, ics haven't made it to top 8 evo since then....except for.......you guessed it. CHUDAT

Um Chudat got fifth at Evo 2007, IC's have been a threat for as long as Evo has had Melee.

And besides, Chudat doesn't have consistent placings. Nintendude and Wobbles and Fly probably have better overall placings, it's just Chu had one breakout tournament that created a lot of buzz. At SmashCon Chu lost to Mike Haze. That's not consistent top level play.