The best Mii Fighter Set-up for an overall MU list spread?

Solutionme

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SolutionMe
#1
I'm asking since I'm currently working on a project that is meant to bring more characters to viability and this also gives an opportunity for the Mii characters to be brought back again. Thank you for any answers and if need be I might make a strawpoll to organize this more.
 

hoppyKnitz

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#2
1111. lol it's not the best but it's the only universally accepted move set and it's workable. I'm good with sticking to it cuz it's not horrible
 
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maelodic
#4
Most people stick with 2122.
Some matchups, people will switch UU for SP - slower or larger characters can get caught by it as well as people with fairly predictable recoveries. Some people are particularly susceptible to the angle of shot put, Shiek is one of those people, but you'll usually get more mileage out of UU on that matchup anyway.

Onslaught vs BDK is an argument that has been had many times, but most people just stick with Onslaught.

Helicopter Kick vs Piston Punch depends on the stage and matchup. If you can catch people easily with PP and you're on a stage with a lower ceiling PP is easier to kill with. However, HK is safer and drifting between the moves is hard. HK will cover more matchups, so if you have to stick with one move, use Helicopter Kick.

Feint Jump is the best down special, no argument from anybody there.

EDIT: It's worthwhile to note that the optimal move setups don't really change the matchup spread that much, just makes it slightly better or worse.
In the case of 2122 > 1111, it's making it much worse.
 
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Solutionme

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#5
Most people stick with 2122.
Some matchups, people will switch UU for SP - slower or larger characters can get caught by it as well as people with fairly predictable recoveries. Some people are particularly susceptible to the angle of shot put, Shiek is one of those people, but you'll usually get more mileage out of UU on that matchup anyway.

Onslaught vs BDK is an argument that has been had many times, but most people just stick with Onslaught.

Helicopter Kick vs Piston Punch depends on the stage and matchup. If you can catch people easily with PP and you're on a stage with a lower ceiling PP is easier to kill with. However, HK is safer and drifting between the moves is hard. HK will cover more matchups, so if you have to stick with one move, use Helicopter Kick.

Feint Jump is the best down special, no argument from anybody there.

EDIT: It's worthwhile to note that the optimal move setups don't really change the matchup spread that much, just makes it slightly better or worse.
In the case of 2122 > 1111, it's making it much worse.
Do you know what the overall best size is by any chance? Also thank you. I'm also thinking SP is more usable in an overall MU setting over UU due to being a projectile and being able to edgeguard effectively against certain characters. In the case for Onslaught vs. BDK, is it better to have the recovery or the extra killmove that punishes on a whiff? I know his recovery becomes extremely poor with helicopter kick but i doubt it is entirely necessary.
 
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maelodic
#6
Do you know what the overall best size is by any chance? Also thank you. I'm also thinking SP is more usable in an overall MU setting over UU due to being a projectile and being able to edgeguard effectively against certain characters. In the case for Onslaught vs. BDK, is it better to have the recovery or the extra killmove that punishes on a whiff? I know his recovery becomes extremely poor with helicopter kick but i doubt it is entirely necessary.
Feint jump tends to take care of your horizontal recovery. Onslaught is better at punishing techs and is generally easier to get out and land, and has higher initial range. Most brawlers pick it over BDK but it's not a horribly important move in your set anymore than Falcon's side b is to him. Pick to your preference, just know that the mass majority uses Onslaught and there's reasons for it. BDK is used and loved by several and is not considered a bad choice. Just remember to smash it.

SP is super hard to use effectively and only works on a few characters. UU is always a powerful counter-type kill move that can also be used as a hard punish. You can use it to punish all sorts of things and it's reliable from a low percentage up through the rest. It also does a ton of shield damage and can break shields.
If you manage to get super good at shot put, however, it can be good. It's just really easy to be punished with it.

As far as sizes, I would heavily recommend practicing with Guest size, which is 50/50, if you ever plan on doing anything competitive. Sizes other than guest being legal isn't even a pipe dream for miis, and will very likely never happen.
That being said, smawler, which is both sliders down to 0, as well as small fat brawler, which is height all the way down, weight all the way up, are both considered optional. Big guy loses air mobility but gains hit stun. Most people prefer the smallest brawler possible, but both are top tier/borderline broken.
I would heavily recommend avoiding sizes altogether, though, and sticking with guest size just so any techs people mention will also apply to you, and you won't have a hard time competing.
 

Solutionme

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#7
Feint jump tends to take care of your horizontal recovery. Onslaught is better at punishing techs and is generally easier to get out and land, and has higher initial range. Most brawlers pick it over BDK but it's not a horribly important move in your set anymore than Falcon's side b is to him. Pick to your preference, just know that the mass majority uses Onslaught and there's reasons for it. BDK is used and loved by several and is not considered a bad choice. Just remember to smash it.

SP is super hard to use effectively and only works on a few characters. UU is always a powerful counter-type kill move that can also be used as a hard punish. You can use it to punish all sorts of things and it's reliable from a low percentage up through the rest. It also does a ton of shield damage and can break shields.
If you manage to get super good at shot put, however, it can be good. It's just really easy to be punished with it.

As far as sizes, I would heavily recommend practicing with Guest size, which is 50/50, if you ever plan on doing anything competitive. Sizes other than guest being legal isn't even a pipe dream for miis, and will very likely never happen.
That being said, smawler, which is both sliders down to 0, as well as small fat brawler, which is height all the way down, weight all the way up, are both considered optional. Big guy loses air mobility but gains hit stun. Most people prefer the smallest brawler possible, but both are top tier/borderline broken.
I would heavily recommend avoiding sizes altogether, though, and sticking with guest size just so any techs people mention will also apply to you, and you won't have a hard time competing.
Thank you for your help. I think I know what I'm going to do then most likely. Short/Fat with UU, HK, Onslaught and FJ.

I'm mostly doing this as a way for the community to do their own final "balance patch" if you catch my meaning. Essentially I want to make this the true "default" Mii that people must play with.

One final thing I can request is that if you can answer the same concerning the other Miis I'd be extremely grateful since it makes it much easier on me. TBH I was thinking of making Tall/Fat Swordfighter since it means a bigger disjoint with more damage, but I'm not entirely sure if making the Mii fatter increases their landing lag or not.

Anyways this is just fair to the mii players and in general lower tier characters if my little project for a side tournament works.
 
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maelodic
#8
Thank you for your help. I think I know what I'm going to do then most likely. Short/Fat with UU, HK, Onslaught and FJ.

I'm mostly doing this as a way for the community to do their own final "balance patch" if you catch my meaning. Essentially I want to make this the true "default" Mii that people must play with.

One final thing I can request is that if you can answer the same concerning the other Miis I'd be extremely grateful since it makes it much easier on me. TBH I was thinking of making Tall/Fat Swordfighter since it means a bigger disjoint with more damage, but I'm not entirely sure if making the Mii fatter increases their landing lag or not.

Anyways this is just fair to the mii players and in general lower tier characters if my little project for a side tournament works.
If you're doing a standard, I'd just recommend going with straight small brawler instead of short/fat. It's been labbed a whole lot more, is still considered broken, and most people prefer it over short/fat.

As far as the other miis, you'll likely need to ask their communities, but know that their sets vary wildly. Brawler is the only one where people believe there is an objective "best" whereas the other miis are argued about constantly.

As a side note, there is a movement titled Golden Set with the hopes to standardize miis for competitive play. The sets for that, as chosen by the mii discord, are:
Brawler 2122
Swordfighter 1332
Gunner 1312

However, what is "optimal" is not what is best for each player, and forcing a single set on miis (or size, if different sizes are legal) is kind of against what the mii community tends to want. If you want to give the most attention or fairness to the mii community in general, just let them bring their own miis to fight with via 3DS.

For example, while the mii community chose 1332 as swordfighter set, I absolutely hate the third up B option, hero's spin, and instead prefer skyward slash dash. I also personally like playing tiny swordfighter while most of the swordfighter community does not think that's optimal at all.
 

Solutionme

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#9
If you're doing a standard, I'd just recommend going with straight small brawler instead of short/fat. It's been labbed a whole lot more, is still considered broken, and most people prefer it over short/fat.

As far as the other miis, you'll likely need to ask their communities, but know that their sets vary wildly. Brawler is the only one where people believe there is an objective "best" whereas the other miis are argued about constantly.

As a side note, there is a movement titled Golden Set with the hopes to standardize miis for competitive play. The sets for that, as chosen by the mii discord, are:
Brawler 2122
Swordfighter 1332
Gunner 1312

However, what is "optimal" is not what is best for each player, and forcing a single set on miis (or size, if different sizes are legal) is kind of against what the mii community tends to want. If you want to give the most attention or fairness to the mii community in general, just let them bring their own miis to fight with via 3DS.

For example, while the mii community chose 1332 as swordfighter set, I absolutely hate the third up B option, hero's spin, and instead prefer skyward slash dash. I also personally like playing tiny swordfighter while most of the swordfighter community does not think that's optimal at all.
You do bring up a fair point but without making the most optimal default moveset we essentially have too many characters in one that prevent the character from being playable in a fair manner. I'm also surprised charge shot for mii gunner beat grenade launch.

But again thank you for every single bit of information you've given me. This literally would have been impossible for me to lab.
 
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maelodic
#10
You do bring up a fair point but without making the most optimal default moveset we essentially have too many characters in one that prevent the character from being playable in a fair manner. I'm also surprised charge shot for mii gunner beat grenade launch.

But again thank you for every single bit of information you've given me. This literally would have been impossible for me to lab.
You're welcome.

Most of the time, it's easier just to let the players bring in their own mii characters on 3DS or create the moveset with a guest mii before the set.
If you want to avoid 3DS transfers, but still want free sizes, you generally would need to make miis with all general combinations of sizes (0:0, 0:50, 50:0, 0:100, 100:0, 50:100,100:50, 50:50, 100:100) and then let players select from there. Still will take less than a minute.
Otherwise, you could just use guest miis and have players create their own before a match.

There are rulesets that make sense for Miis within a competitive environment, even within free sizes. Most rulesets make the most sense with guest size, but with 3DS transfers, the free sizes work too.

I can promise you it'll be more important to the mii players that they have the options they normally would with the custom button off than being handed the optimal moveset.
 

Ryuphoton

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#11
In my experiences playing brawler, my best setup is Piston Punch, Burning Drop Kick, Ultimate Uppercut and Feint Jump, but in terms of a overall MU spread, I don't think what I run with is the best.
Feint Jump is a no brainer, no other down-b compares.
I run Piston Punch because, while the recovery is very linear, you have Feint Jump and Burning Drop KIck to cover that, it really shines as a overall kill move, especially on stages like battlefield, where if you are on the top platform, which I know is situational but still, it kills very early and maybe even at 0% against the lightest characters, I'm not sure. Piston Punch isn't too bad out-of-shield either.
Burning Drop Kick is interesting because while I don't think it has as much offensive potential as Onslaught, it's not bad as a recovery since you aren't put in special fall. This pick is swappable with Onslaught, though.
Ultimate Uppercut is a good surprise kill move and with the super armor, granted it doesn't come out immediately, it can eat a lot of attacks. Don't try and use it all the time though, I learned that the hard way multiple times...
 
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Wiifitgaypride69
#12
2122 like many said is the best set. Sizes, it's best to just stick to Guest. Trying to get Tiny legal isn't worth it. Besides, Tiny Brawler is super broken with either Helicopter Lick or Piston Punch. He has easy kill confirms on the whole cast with both Up B's. Tiny Brawler would only be balanced if he was only able to use Soaring Axe Kick Up B, cause HK and PP is way too broken on Tiny size.

With Guest size, you cannot do the broken stuff combos constantly with HK or PP, like Tiny size is able to do easily. So it's best to stick with Guest size, since Guest size is alot more balanced and not as nutty as tiny.
 

AEMehr

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Ariand54321
#13
The Up Special depends on the stage, but in most cases Helicopter Kick is arguably better because it is a superior recovery move.

Mii Brawler at guest size benefits the most from 2122.
Neutral B 2 A way to armor through attacks for a massive punish is nice.
Side B 1 is a great roll read tool and can be used as a mix up for air dodge reads as well after down throws.
Like I said Up B 2 is just a better recovery move and it's mobility while in use is good for early stock kills if you commit to them. Nobody knows how to di it either haha.
Down B 2's utility too necessary for Brawler's kit to forgo. He can ledge cancel with it and it makes his recovery superb.

A 2122 Brawler is more of a choker than anything else. Your frame data is better than most of the cast and you can link your moves together fairly easily if your opponent doesn't know to jump out of everything. Your recovery is linear because you have to go from the side or above but the hitboxes covering you should keep you safe the majority of the time. Just don't nair ever offstage and recovery shouldn't be much of an issue.
 
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#14
I hope I'm not too late for the discussion.

I'll go out on a limb and say that the 2222 set will get :4miibrawl: somewhere. Stage recovery is really important for him/her and this moveset should alleviate that problem. IMHO, the Ultimate Uppercut has to be the way to go for the neutral special. A chargeable power move with launch resistance that can be whipped out later on in the match. I like making my opponents cringe in fear of this. As for Shot Put, I say, why bother? It's too slow and short-ranged of a projectile to be of much use. Besides, I think :4miibrawl: doesn't need a projectile to kick ass.


So, there you have it... 2222 it is.
 

Kaze Arashi

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#16
2122 like many said is the best set. Sizes, it's best to just stick to Guest. Trying to get Tiny legal isn't worth it. Besides, Tiny Brawler is super broken with either Helicopter Lick or Piston Punch. He has easy kill confirms on the whole cast with both Up B's. Tiny Brawler would only be balanced if he was only able to use Soaring Axe Kick Up B, cause HK and PP is way too broken on Tiny size.

With Guest size, you cannot do the broken stuff combos constantly with HK or PP, like Tiny size is able to do easily. So it's best to stick with Guest size, since Guest size is alot more balanced and not as nutty as tiny.
He's actually not that broken. He struggles against sword characters like marth, lucina and cloud since brawler has little to no range. He's like mario but just has a good approach.
 

MERPIS

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#17
He's actually not that broken. He struggles against sword characters like marth, lucina and cloud since brawler has little to no range. He's like mario but just has a good approach.
Mobility says otherwise, mii smaller is easily a top 3 or even top 2 pick and a lot of that is due to his mobility.
 
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