The Best Character Under Perfect Conditions

[Ishiey]

Projectiles don't come out on frame 2. Defensive play in brawl is superior to aggressive with a 0 reflex, so nobody approaches the opponent, and nobody gets hit ever.

Congrats, it's a draw on most characters.

This is seriously it, you can just shield everything unless you can get in range for a 1 or 2 frame unpunishable move (barring prediction, but since you're perfect nobody will predict what you're going to do and will only react on what they see) without leaving yourself vulnerable. And on the topic of wolf's reflector (not exactly on topic but whatever) the ending lag can be ***** hard, going back to why being defensive is the best tactic, PS is practically unstoppable.

But that's no fun, which is why we don't sit around shielding all day long. Brawl can't be played perfectly because it wasn't intended to be competitive, which would approach a perfect level (in theory). PS breaks the game, more or less.

EDIT: yeah pikmin throw might also break the game.

 

[XienZo]

You can't powershield Pikmin.

Olimar wins.

 

[Nitrix]

Can't a character catch all the bananas?

Nope. Thus, it becomes a matchup between Diddy and Olimar. Diddy can score hits due to trips caused by bananas, and would cause alot more damage than Olimar. Thus, I'd say Diddy wins.

 

[XienZo]

Why can't you catch them? I'm pretty sure the physics let you, but the physics don't let you shield or PS Pikmin. Also, you can PS bananas, can't you?

 

[bludhoundz]

You can catch and PS bananas. You can't hold two at once, though, so if Diddy does a forward glide toss -> forward glide toss, you need to respond differnetly.

Also being unable to shield pikmin isn't such a big deal, you can swat them away with your fastest move.

 

[XienZo]

You can catch and PS bananas. You can't hold two at once, though, so if Diddy does a forward glide toss -> forward glide toss, you need to respond differnetly.

Also being unable to shield pikmin isn't such a big deal, you can swat them away with your fastest move.

You can throw pikmin to block bananas. You can also PS the banana and then punish Diddy. Remember, we're talking about perfect players.

Also, while you swat them, more pikmin are going to come.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Meta Knight would still win. Allow me to explain:

In this so-called "Perfect Tournament," all the players have totally mastered their character and make no slip-ups. All the players would have the same level of skill. In a match between an amateur Meta Knight and an amateur Ganondorf, the result will most likely be the same as a pro MK vs a pro Ganondorf. Therefore, in a level of play where errors are eliminated, this formula will remain the same. Therefore, the tier list is still relevant. Therefore, Meta Knight wins.

 

[Thossos]

except if ice climbers were perfect, chain grabs would just destroy metaknight
so it's screwy

 

[Dastrn]

My vote goes to Ice Climbers or Metaknight.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

In an ideal situation, every aerial and every attack will be powershielded into a shield grab. Thus puts Ice Climbers as the winner EASILY. Most characters will be lucky to do 20% damage even at perfection out of this grab, but IC will take a stock.

Meta second.

 

[Mazaloth]

Ah, but you forget, what if Olimar approaches only a third of the way? You have to think of stuff other than the extremes. Yes, Pikmin can fly at you from 2/3rd of FD away.

Perfect shielding would take place, and we all know, PS can be done every 2 frames. Olimar pikmen are thrown in a longer time then that.

 

[XienZo]

perfect Shielding Would Take Place, And We All Know, Ps Can Be Done Every 2 Frames. Olimar Pikmen Are Thrown In A Longer Time Then That.

How Do You Perfect Shield Pikmin?

 

[Snare]

In an ideal situation, every aerial and every attack will be powershielded into a shield grab. Thus puts Ice Climbers as the winner EASILY. Most characters will be lucky to do 20% damage even at perfection out of this grab, but IC will take a stock.

Meta second.

i think people are forgetting that if you hit a "perfectly" as you get grabbed there's a specific animation where you actually get out of the grab. So if everything was perfect shielded to a grab then everyone could perfectly get out of the grab instantly

 

[XienZo]

i think people are forgetting that if you hit a "perfectly" as you get grabbed there's a specific animation where you actually get out of the grab. So if everything was perfect shielded to a grab then everyone could perfectly get out of the grab instantly

That was a fluke, they got guys to test it in slow motion tons of times and they got like 3 over 3 hours. Its more like tripping.

 

[Snare]

That was a fluke, they got guys to test it in slow motion tons of times and they got like 3 over 3 hours. Its more like tripping.

ah my bad :\, then IC love i guess

 

[XienZo]

I still don't get how you PS Pikmin... They latch onto you regardless if you powershield, and then you have to PS every single hit, and when there are multiple pikmin, its very easy to get pikmin hits with 2 frames of each other.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Lucas would win bcuz his jab has one frame of start up, thus making it impossible for anyone to counter him, bcuz lucas' move would be out b4 anyone else's counter/SA or watever could be activated, unless they knew for sure that he would do his jab, but no one can read minds now can they

 

[TP]

Lucas would win bcuz his jab has one frame of start up, thus making it impossible for anyone to counter him, bcuz lucas' move would be out b4 anyone else's counter/SA or watever could be activated, unless they knew for sure that he would do his jab, but no one can read minds now can they

I believe Squirtle and Zamus also have frame 1 jabs.

 

[ShadowLink84]

That was a fluke, they got guys to test it in slow motion tons of times and they got like 3 over 3 hours. Its more like tripping.

They are doing it wrong.
the game ADDS frames when the game is slowed down. So rather than MK's Dtilt finishing at frae 15, it ends much later.

So that point in which you need to press and break away is smaller.
*is skeptical of instant breaks*

 

[XienZo]

Lucas would win bcuz his jab has one frame of start up, thus making it impossible for anyone to counter him, bcuz lucas' move would be out b4 anyone else's counter/SA or watever could be activated, unless they knew for sure that he would do his jab, but no one can read minds now can they

Projectiles much.

No, you cannot absorb Pikmin.

 

[Nitrix]

You can throw pikmin to block bananas. You can also PS the banana and then punish Diddy. Remember, we're talking about perfect players.

Pikmin do not block Bananas. In fact, I can't think of anything they do block.

 

[XienZo]

I'm fairly sure they do, they block needles, aura spheres, flying Luigis, Ikes, and Pikas, missles, basically everything not called Razor Leaf or Robo Laser.

But you have to throw them of course. Having them sit in your line obviously won't do anything.

 

[Ukemi]

I'm restating what I posted before since no one seemed to read it. (sorry if I'm breaking the rules this way, I don't think I am)

Any kind of grab strategy does not work due to Instant Grab Release. Unless you find some way to set them up into a helpless situation that you can grab them in.

 

[XienZo]

I'm restating what I posted before since no one seemed to read it. (sorry if I'm breaking the rules this way, I don't think I am)

Any kind of grab strategy does not work due to Instant Grab Release. Unless you find some way to set them up into a helpless situation that you can grab them in.

Any proof that it works? We can't assume something true until proven and all attempts to prove it has turned up inconclusive.

 

[Judge Judy]

Any proof that it works? We can't assume something true until proven and all attempts to prove it has turned up inconclusive.

It seems to be just a terrain break but it can be forced depending on several things including: momentum, position, and obviously any anomalies on the ground. Basically if you or your opponent slides too much when they grab you, you may instantly break out. There might be more to the instant break than what I listed but that's all I know about it; some people are convinced that you press A at a certain frame, but the only reason why that would work at all would be because somehow it shifted either your or your opponent’s position and/or momentum. So far there is no true “grab tech” as far as I know.

 

[brinboy789]

its wolf. shine through freakin everything. /thread.

 

[Tenki]

the game ADDS frames when the game is slowed down. So rather than MK's Dtilt finishing at frae 15, it ends much later.

There's a ratio that it maintains though.

I believe it's 1/4 speed's frames are (5/3 * normal speed frames)

 

[IDK]

Diddy Kong gets my vote. If someone plays Diddy perfectly then no other character in the cast has a chance.

i love you. i still think MK, wolf, and marth have the best chances though.

 

[XienZo]

There's a ratio that it maintains though.

I believe it's 1/4 speed's frames are (5/3 * normal speed frames)

I'm not sure on that. The timer/electric attack works with Olimar's yellows(with like 150+ damage for usmash per timer), but it doesn't work at all for 1/4th mode. And Olimar has the fastest hitlag lock, since he himself doesn't even enter hitlag.

 

[Weruop]

not olimar... no

 

[Kitamerby]

I'm not sure on that. The timer/electric attack works with Olimar's yellows(with like 150+ damage for usmash per timer), but it doesn't work at all for 1/4th mode. And Olimar has the fastest hitlag lock, since he himself doesn't even enter hitlag.

The timer/electric attacks depend on the sheer fact that while everybody else is moving slowly, you aren't.

 

[XienZo]

The timer/electric attacks depend on the sheer fact that while everybody else is moving slowly, you aren't.

Yeah, I meant timer + 1/4speed doesn't work, even though it should work, just with 1/4th the speed.

 

[Xanthus]

Ice climbers. 1 grab = win.

Even if other characters can get hits in almost all of the time, if IC's can get in ONCE its a stock.

 

[XienZo]

Ice climbers. 1 grab = win.

Even if other characters can get hits in almost all of the time, if IC's can get in ONCE its a stock.

But if the opponent plays perfectly, the IC's may NEVER get a grab in.

 

[ThaRoy]

What about Zelda...? I mean she can reflect projectiles, Din's Fire spam, and her thunder kicks... I mean c'mon she'd **** under perfect conditions.

WAIT...

Nope, it's Peach. Perfect conditions = perfect spacing AND stitches.

 

[XienZo]

What about Zelda...? I mean she can reflect projectiles, Din's Fire spam, and her thunder kicks... I mean c'mon she'd **** under perfect conditions.

WAIT...

Nope, it's Peach. Perfect conditions = perfect spacing AND stitches.

You don't get to rig the number generater...

Other characters can powershield the din's fire and thunder kicks and can use projectiles and then punish after the reflect.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

snake, infinite d-throw tech chase---> utilt

 

[Omis]

Could the OP put a poll in this?

 

[XienZo]

Polls wouldn't say much, we could get a far more insight and accurate answers from debating.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

i agree


im right

everyone else is wrong!