• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Aerial Elevator

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
Zelda metagame development? WhaaaaT? No way.

This thread is about performing FW disappear to reappear in the air; something I've never seen any Zelda do. I decided to look into it some more and it's actually amazing. I think this is something that every Zelda should master and it might actually help her secure kills a lot easier.

You might be wondering, why use the "harder to pull off" aerial elevator if the grounded one is easier to perform and kills earlier? First off, let's look at the differences between them so we can see why the aerial version is also viable
- Grounded version kills earlier. Grounded kills at 50-80% with no rage, aerial kills at about 60-90% with no rage. HOWEVER,
-The aerial version can be set up into.
I'm sure most of you have seen this video, but other moves can also combo into it. It's important to note that training mode does not count these as true combos, but they often work and you can easily bait an airdodge; you can't bait anything to hit with the grounded version. You can only bait a shield and an fsmash in your face :secretkpop:
I'll go more in depth with this in the applications section~


The first hit of grounded Farore's Wind hits opponents straight up at a 90° angle. However, the aerial version hits opponents at approximately 80° degrees. This means you have to change the angle you press compared to the grounded version.

However, another important differences is that the opponent goes in the direction you hit them. So for example, if you hit with the back part of an aerial FW, the opponent would go behind you at an 80° angle. To hit with the powerful reappearing hit, you'll need to angle your control stick between diagonally horizontal and straight upwards.
Where you hold to hit with the reappearing hit once the disappearing hit connects


pls excuse my arrows gorls I actually have the drawing skills of a drunk person that's how playing Zelda feels anyway so :')

Finally, how to actually use the aerial elevator. You can kill with an aerial elevator off of an airdodge read, a dthrow, a dtilt, or a sweetspotted dair on a grounded opponent. One important thing to note about killing with this, is that you ~*M*U*S*T*~ hit close to the top or in the middle of FW or the opponent will not be hit with the sweetspot or, in the cast of dtilt to aerial elevator, it just won't connect. Though hitting with the sourspot doesn't matter too much since it'll sometimes kill because you're so close to the blastzone :^)
Hit with top/middle of Zelda's body / sweetspot


Hit with very side of FW or her feet / sourspot
As you can see, those gifs showcased dthrow to an aerial elevator. You can also do it off of
aaaaand
Short hopped

On taller characters you can also do a running full hop dair and not jump after the dair (this is a true combo)

I haven't tested the exact kill percents for each character, but I have noticed some approximate percents while testing this out. These are all without rage on Wii U Final Destination, fresh, with no DI. The percent indicates when it starts working and killing. Btw, at the lower percents on characters that aren't floaty, it's easiest to do this by SHing after the dthrow instead of full hopping. However, on characters that are heavy and floaty (I.e. Lucario and Samus) you'll want to short hop.
Super lightweights (:4jigglypuff::4gaw::4kirby::rosalina::4pikachu::4olimar:) = ~45-60%

Lightweights (:4fox::4metaknight::4zss::4falco::4littlemac::4sheik::4zelda::4peach:) = ~55%

Mediumweights (:4marth::4lucina::4duckhunt::4palutena::4diddy::4tlink::4ness::4greninja::4pacman::4sonic::4robinm::4pit::4darkpit::4wiifit::4luigi::4villager::4mario::4drmario::4lucario:) = ~55-65%

Heavyweights ( :4megaman::4shulk::4yoshi::4link::4falcon::4rob::4wario::4myfriends:) = ~65-70%

Super heavyweights (:4samus::4ganondorf::4bowserjr::4charizard::4dk::4dedede::4bowser:) = ~70-75%

I just tested dthrow to FW because it's probably the most important one.

So why is this so important to Zelda? Well, it gives us two more KO options, but most importantly,
it gives us an insane kill option off a grab as well as a hard punish to an airdodge.

So, this is something we should all try to master.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
YAAAAAY METAGAME DEVELOPMENT

Reserved bc everyone does it in case I want to add exact kill percents in the future

BTW WE SHOULD CALL THIS THE AERIALVATOR :^)
 
Last edited:

Fernosaur

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
1,923
Location
Mexico
NNID
Fernosaur
YAAAAAY METAGAME DEVELOPMENT

Reserved bc everyone does it in case I want to add exact kill percents in the future

BTW WE SHOULD CALL THIS THE AERIALVATOR :^)
Omg aerialvator makes me think of stomach washing, I dunno why.

This looks and sounds nifty, though. It might become a great option in the future, but it's still so risky!

Are you SURE people always get shot up in the direction you're expecting? Meaning, of course, contrary to the angle you hit them from.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
Omg aerialvator makes me think of stomach washing, I dunno why.

This looks and sounds nifty, though. It might become a great option in the future, but it's still so risky!

Are you SURE people always get shot up in the direction you're expecting? Meaning, of course, contrary to the angle you hit them from.
Yep. I tested it like 10 times cuz it seemed waaaay too easy to be true. But, it is. Even if you hit with Zelda's head the game still determines where your opponent is sent based on if they're closer to the left or right of her. Hit at the top of Zelda's head on the right side = sent to right
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
Location
The Zelda Boards
Maybe Aerielevator instead? It rolls off the tongue better imo. Either way this is looking great! :D
 

Phenomiracle

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
782
Location
New Jersey
Well, this made for a pleasant read.

Any tips for what to do on managing or reading DI? I find sweetspotted Bair a better punish to an airdodge after Dthrow.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
Maybe Aerielevator instead? It rolls off the tongue better imo. Either way this is looking great! :D
That's like a 10x better name xD Thank you to everyone else who said this looks good btw
Well, this made for a pleasant read.

Any tips for what to do on managing or reading DI? I find sweetspotted Bair a better punish to an airdodge after Dthrow.
What I've been doing is trying to find a pattern with my opponent's DI after I dthrow them for early percent combos. If they don't DI, it's really easy to set up, if they DI up, even easier, and if they DI away from Zelda it's still easy. If your opponent doesn't have a set pattern, try and condition them to airdodge by always attacking after a dthrow until the dthrow where you want to do the *Aerielevator* At that point, wait for the airdodge (which gives you time to see where they DI'd) and boom, their stock is gone if you do it correctly at the right percent.
 
Last edited:

Rickster

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
3,834
Location
Faerghus
Switch FC
2713-1285-8029
Yaaaay metagame development!

I'd also like to add that Dthrow>Aerielavator can in fact be a true 7 hit combo, according to training. I can't give exact characters and percents it will work at, but I've done it before. I remember seeing someone else mention the 7 hit thing a while ago too, but i forgot who.

If they DI or airdodge or whatever, you can always just teleport into the ground or away. In this video of Nairo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgys4-SkTWE&ab_channel=CLASHTournaments
at about 3:25 he does this and catches Mario's landing.

The number of options out of Dthrow is turning into a "pick your poison" type of thing, lol.
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
652
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Orienlithel
3DS FC
1934-1731-9287
So, with grounded elevator, the opponent could DI either left or right which would get them out of 2nd hit unless we read the DI with perfect timing and change our reappear location. Is this still the case with the "aerialvator?" I've found it difficult to use the grounded elevator just because it's so easy to get out of and so easy to punish if we whiff. If it's the case that the opponent can DI the arialvator as well, this move becomes just as risky as grounded elevator which means we could be the one losing the stock instead of them.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
You can Di it, but since you're not traveling straight up it's easier to hit with the sweetspot. If the opponent DI's toward Zelda, they go straight up like the grounded elevator. If they DI away from her, they get hit at an angle where you just hold more diagonally instead of closer to straight up. Also, if this becomes a thing and we actually incorporate into our gameplay, we're probably doing it off of a dthrow. The opponent has to DI that, then DI the elevator. And a lot of the time, it can be hard to tell if you were hit by the back or front of the elevator, so there's a chance they just don't DI at all. If this person you're fighting has a ton of Zelda MU knowledge somehow and knows about the aerial angles, they'll always DI away because DIing towards her would be suicide. You can also do it at lower percents to see if/what direction they DI and then teleport to the ground. tldr; most people won't know about the different angles
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
652
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Orienlithel
3DS FC
1934-1731-9287
I'll be able to do some testing with it on Thursday with actual people. I'll see just how practical it is.
 

Jaguar360

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
1,863
Location
NJ
NNID
Jaguar360
3DS FC
0516-7348-2137
I tried this last night and it was easier to pull off than I thought! It seems to work with Squall to an extent, but it is much less guaranteed. It's at least safer since the Squallator doesn't leave you helpless in the air when you miss, but it's probably not worth it.
 

Suicidal_Donuts

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
654
Location
The Velvet Room
NNID
IfItIsntBryson
I might look into seeing how this could work when recovering. Instead of ledge snapping, you go above the ledge and hit the opponent with the first hit of FW and then continue it for it a kill. If something goes wrong (like hitting shield or missing) you could always teleport as far as you can to the side so you won't be immediately punished.
 

Macchiato

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
6,629
Location
Springfield, Virginia
NNID
Macchiatooo
I tried this last night and it was easier to pull off than I thought! It seems to work with Squall to an extent, but it is much less guaranteed. It's at least safer since the Squallator doesn't leave you helpless in the air when you miss, but it's probably not worth it.
Wait what I don't understand
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
652
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Orienlithel
3DS FC
1934-1731-9287
I tried it yesterday against a friend of mine that doesn't play smash often and it seemed really difficult to pull off. Basically, I found that, from dthrow, we basically have to bait an airdodge, otherwise it's super easy to get out of it at kill percents. Then, if you've successfully baited an airdodge, the opponent can DI completely out of the FW combo. There was one instance when I successfully hit with FW1 in the air and my friend DI'd left and down when FW1 was going to send her up and left. She went at a nearly horizontal trajectory and I reacted to it in time to teleport the same direction she was going and FW2 went TOO FAR to hit her. She was at about 80%. I only successfully hit her with FW2 once and that was when she DI'd the opposite direction she was sent meaning she went straight up which feels very natural and comfortable. I had more luck baiting an airdodge and waiting for the opponent to hit the ground in order for me to get a grounded elevator.

Like I said, Thursday, I'll test against people that really know what they're doing and, as of right now, it's looking like this strat is really difficult to pull off.
 

Jaguar360

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
1,863
Location
NJ
NNID
Jaguar360
3DS FC
0516-7348-2137
Wait what I don't understand
How Aerial Squallator works? Basically D-throw, Squall, aim at a downwards angle and if it connects, follow up with an up air.
 
Last edited:

Jaguar360

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
1,863
Location
NJ
NNID
Jaguar360
3DS FC
0516-7348-2137
But squall end Hitbox to uair isn't a true combo. They can just jump.
Yeah that's part of why it's not so guaranteed. It's probably not worth it, but it works sometimes.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
hmm about dtilt to escalator, wouldn't it be easier to just use "jump cancel dash up B" lmao?
You can do that at lower percents, the aerial version is for 60 and above
I tried it yesterday against a friend of mine that doesn't play smash often and it seemed really difficult to pull off. Basically, I found that, from dthrow, we basically have to bait an airdodge, otherwise it's super easy to get out of it at kill percents. Then, if you've successfully baited an airdodge, the opponent can DI completely out of the FW combo. There was one instance when I successfully hit with FW1 in the air and my friend DI'd left and down when FW1 was going to send her up and left. She went at a nearly horizontal trajectory and I reacted to it in time to teleport the same direction she was going and FW2 went TOO FAR to hit her. She was at about 80%. I only successfully hit her with FW2 once and that was when she DI'd the opposite direction she was sent meaning she went straight up which feels very natural and comfortable. I had more luck baiting an airdodge and waiting for the opponent to hit the ground in order for me to get a grounded elevator.

Like I said, Thursday, I'll test against people that really know what they're doing and, as of right now, it's looking like this strat is really difficult to pull off.
Thank you for trying this out! Unfortunate that it seems to not be very reliable.
 

Rickster

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
3,834
Location
Faerghus
Switch FC
2713-1285-8029
Speaking of Dtilt, I once got the Aerielevator to do a 3 hit combo to KO from it. Forgot the char and percent (as usual...) But it's good to know that it is in fact possible in the right circumstances.
 

Rickster

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
3,834
Location
Faerghus
Switch FC
2713-1285-8029
I managed to pull off the Aerielevator/Escalator (what are we gonna call it?) somewhat consistently on some Lvl. 9 CPUs today. Granted, they were CPUs, but with their perfect dodging habits, I thought it might stand for something.

I must say it feels really, really good to pull it off successfully. The motion is also starting to get more natural feeling, like our regular Elevator!
 
Last edited:

Aus0115

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
189
Location
Florida
NNID
Aus0116
I actually did this on a cpu today, took a few tries tho but I got it once!!!! too bad I didn't save the replay :(
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
652
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Orienlithel
3DS FC
1934-1731-9287
As promised, I tested this today against actual people that are really good at the game tonight. It's completely impractical. It requires an airdodge bait, otherwise it can be jumped out of, interrupted with combo-breaker moves (Mario's nair, Sheik's nair, etc.), and the opponent can DI away from Zelda after d-throw which makes it even more difficult for her to follow up with FW1. If you get an airdodge, follow up with a grounded FW. It's just so much more practical when the opponent makes it difficult for followups at high percents from d-throw. In all honesty, if the opponent DI's away from Zelda after d-throw and jumps around 50%+, a followup is nigh impossible unless you catch their landing afterwards.
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
818
Location
Philadelphia, PA
NNID
LightningrodC
3DS FC
1461-6200-7452
Yeah sadly this seems kind of impractical versus human players and I have trouble landing it on them in the first place. It's so satisfying when it lands though.
 

S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
Location
Las Vegas it's hot yall help
NNID
suffler9
3DS FC
0061-1006-1500
@ S.F.L.R_9 S.F.L.R_9 yew should make a thread on teleport Cancelling instead like how yew use it. Your really good at it and it seems to have some uses. It also makes zelda look fast.
Aw ty for the compliment Macchi <3 I only know how to do all of the platform craziness on Battlefield right now so I think I'll save making the thread until I also can utilize the platforms on other stages
 

Macchiato

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
6,629
Location
Springfield, Virginia
NNID
Macchiatooo
Aw ty for the compliment Macchi <3 I only know how to do all of the platform craziness on Battlefield right now so I think I'll save making the thread until I also can utilize the platforms on other stages
I think that this might be what brings her to high tier
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
818
Location
Philadelphia, PA
NNID
LightningrodC
3DS FC
1461-6200-7452
I have a question about the grounded elevator. I know @ Macchiato Macchiato said in another thread that the grounded elevator combo can be DIed out of. Reading that made it seem like the move is worse than I thought originally since I presumed the second hit always hits. And usually it does in practice, but it looks like nobody on FG usually successfully DIs it if they're caught in the sweetspot of my elevators. That's clearly just For Glory though and obviously they aren't professionals by any stretch. Usually if I messed it up, it would be because I accidentally hit with the sourspot on the far outside instead of having them actually touching me when I did it or I moved away for some weird reason. So I just have a question, is this a legitimate fear for the viability of the move (which is imo, Zelda's best, customs or not) or can this be worked around/not as big of a deal as I'm making of it?
 

Rickster

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
3,834
Location
Faerghus
Switch FC
2713-1285-8029
Imo it's hard to react in time unless you know for sure that the Zelda is going to Farore's you. It IS a frame 7 hitbox, iirc. Most of the time I think it's "accidentally" DI'd out of, especially if you do a running Farore's (since they'll be trying to spam that roll away from you >_> ).
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
818
Location
Philadelphia, PA
NNID
LightningrodC
3DS FC
1461-6200-7452
Fair enough. So just don't be predictable and hope the game doesn't have a lag attack as soon as you do the move since the opponent will then have time to process what's happening and DI. I've also had times where I got lucky and sour spotted the first hit but moved to the correct location of the second hit and sweetspotted that. Tougher to do that though and I think I just got lucky with prediction, unless sourspots go in set directions.
 

OptimistNic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
216
NNID
OptimistNic
3DS FC
4682-8455-3463
I vote to call it the Elevator of Death :D
Also at around 80% you don't even need to do the down throw and angle at all. If you find an opening just do Farore's Wind from the ground straight up and it will connect and kill. That's how I always use it.
 
Last edited:

DCavalier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
99
NNID
cavalierredeyes
Switch FC
SW 5638 2481 3507
Guys, think I found something interesting dunno if already known.

In Training vs CPU:

vs Jiggly at 30% --> 35%:
SH FF sweetspotted d-air --> FW is a 3 hit combo vs Jiggly that kills.

vs Pikachu at 40% --> 45%:
SH FF sweetspotted d-air --> FW is a 3 hit combo that kills.

vs Zelda at 60% --> 70%:
SH FF sweetspotted d-air --> FW is a 3 hit combo that kills.

Also if u add 20% to the base %, for example:

vs Jiggly at 50% :
SH FF sweetspotted d-air --> SH u-air is a 2 hit combo that kills, cause SH u-air hits with the sweetspot.

Same for the other chars.
So is character weight dependant.

I did not test against real opponents yet, but we know how picky Training Mode is with the combo counter so this could probably be legit.

If already known ignore.
 
Top Bottom