Official The 20XX Melee Training Hack Pack (v5.0.2 - 1/20/2023)

[Achilles1515]

@ Achilles1515 ,
Could you tell me the adress of action state value of "(L+D-Pad Right) P2 Nair OoS" ?
For example, I would like P2 to Dair OoS.


Also, I would like to know how to change the rate of "(L+D-Pad Down) P2 Random C-Stick Buffer OoS / Roll Backwards OoS".
P2 will do Nair when P2 Jump OoS in this code, right?
Then I also would like to change Nair to Dair or something.

In the DOL file,

P2 Nair OoS:
0xD10 - 3A800041
0xD18 - 2C0E0041

0xD10 is the aerial to input and 0xD18 is telling the character to fastfall (spam down) when this action state is seen. So you'll want to change both of them to your new aerial action state value.

P2 Random C-Stick [Nair when jumping]:
0xD7C
0xD84

- structured in the same way as with P2 Nair OoS

 

[Kou]

Hey guys, just an FYI -

I moved into my new apartment this past week,

In the DOL file,

P2 Nair OoS:
0xD10 - 3A800041
0xD18 - 2C0E0041

0xD10 is the aerial to input and 0xD18 is telling the character to fastfall (spam down) when this action state is seen. So you'll want to change both of them to your new aerial action state value.

P2 Random C-Stick [Nair when jumping]:
0xD7C
0xD84

- structured in the same way as with P2 Nair OoS

thank you!!

 

[Cyjorg]

Hey guys, just an FYI -

I moved into my new apartment this past week,

Does this mean we will see some progress on the memory card hack?

 

[Achilles1515]

Does this mean we will see some progress on the memory card hack?

LOL. Well that was supposed to be a separate post talking about how I haven't had much time recently to do substantial coding because of moving places etc...but only got one sentence into it lmao. I get Internet at my apartment tomorrow night, thank god (been on mobile/hotspot for the past 5 days). My desktop computer has had internet connectivity issues since a few months back and been in storage for the past month, so hopefully having a hard wired internet connection will solve these problems. I also just bought another monitor, which will be amazing for coding. The only time I've had two monitors for writing smash code was when I was using my girlfriend's dinky USB powered one and ended up writing the hacked stages and alternate costumes codes. But having two 20+ inch 1080p monitors will be so fantastic.

Once I get settled in and have my setup ready then I'll probably start back up on memory card. I've also become very interested in creating a custom battlefield platform editor...

 

[Pabmyster]

Achilles, I experienced two bugs on ver 2.07 so far, and I haven't even been into a match yet lol. One is that when I went into debug mode and selected 'versus mode' then 'rules' it automatically softlocked the game (idk if this is a bug or I did something wrong) I couldn't press any buttons to exit out and no other menus appeared, but the music continued to play (I had to reset the system). Then, upon rebooting, I was trying to toggle stages on the CSS and I held down on the d-pad while pressing start simultaneously because the normal way of pressing down once didn't work the first time, so I thought I had to hold it down. The game crashed at a black screen and my controller was rumbling infinitely since I just pressed start to advance to the stage selection screen. Thanks for the amazing hack pack though! I'm now enjoying 20XX Melee at a regular rate.

 

[1ampercent]

Hey achilles! It's been a while since I posted around here...

I have some issues running the 20xx pack, I think it might be because of my outdated Dios Mios, but other than that I don't know what else could be the problem. Assuming updated Dios Mios is out of the question, is there anything I can do to make the game stop freezing whenever I execute a CPU command (Falco SH laser used to work, now freezes 100% of the time)

 

[Achilles1515]

Hey achilles! It's been a while since I posted around here...

I have some issues running the 20xx pack, I think it might be because of my outdated Dios Mios, but other than that I don't know what else could be the problem. Assuming updated Dios Mios is out of the question, is there anything I can do to make the game stop freezing whenever I execute a CPU command (Falco SH laser used to work, now freezes 100% of the time)

What 20XX version are you using? And are you positive you are not running it with some other codes enabled? I would try remaking the ISO, specifically replacing the DOL file with the newest one.

 

[Achilles1515]

Achilles, I experienced two bugs on ver 2.07 so far, and I haven't even been into a match yet lol. One is that when I went into debug mode and selected 'versus mode' then 'rules' it automatically softlocked the game (idk if this is a bug or I did something wrong) I couldn't press any buttons to exit out and no other menus appeared, but the music continued to play (I had to reset the system). Then, upon rebooting, I was trying to toggle stages on the CSS and I held down on the d-pad while pressing start simultaneously because the normal way of pressing down once didn't work the first time, so I thought I had to hold it down. The game crashed at a black screen and my controller was rumbling infinitely since I just pressed start to advance to the stage selection screen. Thanks for the amazing hack pack though! I'm now enjoying 20XX Melee at a regular rate.

Thanks for the reports. Someone has mentioned the "rules" menu not working, and although that kind of sucks, I'm hoping to eventually have a completely custom Debug Menu (with the help of IE) so all that stuff will be taken out anyway. I wonder what is causing the problem though...

and I don't have my wii to test right now, but yeah....just don't hold D-Pad down. I guess specifically try not to press it while at the Stage Select Screen.

 

[OninO]

Hey achilles! It's been a while since I posted around here...

I have some issues running the 20xx pack, I think it might be because of my outdated Dios Mios, but other than that I don't know what else could be the problem. Assuming updated Dios Mios is out of the question, is there anything I can do to make the game stop freezing whenever I execute a CPU command (Falco SH laser used to work, now freezes 100% of the time)

Have you checked your controllers are plugged into ports 1 and 2

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-blogpost-5-debug-mode-pt-2-feat-ledgegrabs-and-more.364331/

I'm just going to leave this here

 

[Pabmyster]

I just found another lol. When you have a character other than a Space Animal and you press R+d-pad down, it softlocks the game (well no duh) (I was using Young Link for that). I assume the same might be true with Spacie shine pressure.
But when you do falco SHL pressure it works for any character. They SH and do a Neutral B. And with characters that have a B charge move, they will charge it until the animation ends (if it does) or if the animation doesn't end, they will stay in it until you hit them out, then upon next SH they will fire. An exception is Link's/YL's bow where he just taps the b button.
I assume that Fox Dair -> grab -> Uthrow works the same way. I found that every character does the fox pressure, except Jiggs never executes the grab, she just dairs, and some other characters the grab is nearly impossible to get after the Dair because the ending lag is too long or they spike/meteor you too high to get the grab. Sometimes they don't grab after a successful dair either. It's pretty random

Just thought I'd share that. Sorry if it was already mentioned, haven't read the whole thread. Also, if you'd like bugs to be posted in another thread, then just let me know. I will keep reporting them as I find more (if you want me to).

 

[Achilles1515]

I just found another lol. When you have a character other than a Space Animal and you press R+d-pad down, it softlocks the game (well no duh) (I was using Young Link for that). I assume the same might be true with Spacie shine pressure.
But when you do falco SHL pressure it works for any character. They SH and do a Neutral B. And with characters that have a B charge move, they will charge it until the animation ends (if it does) or if the animation doesn't end, they will stay in it until you hit them out, then upon next SH they will fire. An exception is Link's/YL's bow where he just taps the b button.
I assume that Fox Dair -> grab -> Uthrow works the same way. I found that every character does the fox pressure, except Jiggs never executes the grab, she just dairs, and some other characters the grab is nearly impossible to get after the Dair because the ending lag is too long or they spike/meteor you too high to get the grab. Sometimes they don't grab after a successful dair either. It's pretty random

Just thought I'd share that. Sorry if it was already mentioned, haven't read the whole thread. Also, if you'd like bugs to be posted in another thread, then just let me know. I will keep reporting them as I find more (if you want me to).

I wouldn't really consider these things bugs because they are done this way on purpose...kind of.
Feel free to keep posting them here.

So....R+D-Pad Down is the [spacie] shine out of shield. In order to make it frame perfect, I used InternetExplorer's Action State Hack to force the shine to happen. With this code, you can force a character into a specific action state (and frame number of that action state) at any time. Check out the action state reference tab in this document to get an idea of what I mean by an action state value. You'll notice that B-moves are not included in that list. This is because those values are character specific, so Marth's Down-B might not have the same action state reference value as fox's Down-B. And if Marth doesn't have an action state that corresponds to the value that I use to force a shine, the game will be like "dafuq am I supposed to do with this?"

The other toggles do not cause this to happen because I am either:
a) Forcing an action state value that is common to all characters (ones from that list above, ex. 0x41 = nair for every character)
or
b) Forcing an actual button input, and not using the action state hack.

I have found forcing a button input to be less precise (hence, why Falco misses a laser sometimes) but more versatile and stable than using the action state hack for some things.

I could fix the issue you mentioned by adding in a check to make sure the character is a spacie. Pretty simple. But when I wrote the code, I didn't do this on purpose to save lines of code so that I could use them for more important things. When I get around to rewriting the P2 action stuff, I may just add the check in. Until then, only use the spacie stuff for spacies (except do the shine out of shield code with the CPU as Marth )

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-blogpost-5-debug-mode-pt-2-feat-ledgegrabs-and-more.364331/

I'm just going to leave this here

That's pretty rad!

 

[crush]

^so are you saying that the action state hack is making it so for the shine OOS toggle that the first frame the spacie is out of shield stun they go into the first frame of shine ?

 

[Achilles1515]

^so are you saying that the action state hack is making it so for the shine OOS toggle that the first frame the spacie is out of shield stun they go into the first frame of shine ?

Exactly.

EDIT: No...sorry, I misread your statement. C-stick up is buffered while in shield stun (to jump) and then shine is forced the first frame they are able to cancel their jump. I believe fox can do this two frames faster than Falco.

 

[Wonnie]

I'm loving this hack pack, and it's a great way for me to get a copy of Melee onto my own setup since I'm about to leave for college (and my little brother will keep our original disc).

I do have a question. Since I have custom music in my version, how do I have random stage music disabled by default? I'm getting slightly tired of just having to go to the debug menu to disable it all the time because it kind of defeats the purpose of loading straight to the character select screen.

Thanks once again for an amazing hack!
It's extremely powerful and useful!

 

[Achilles1515]

I'm loving this hack pack, and it's a great way for me to get a copy of Melee onto my own setup since I'm about to leave for college (and my little brother will keep our original disc).

I do have a question. Since I have custom music in my version, how do I have random stage music disabled by default? I'm getting slightly tired of just having to go to the debug menu to disable it all the time because it kind of defeats the purpose of loading straight to the character select screen.

Thanks once again for an amazing hack!
It's extremely powerful and useful!

What version of the hack pack are you using? If you are using 2.07, that debug toggle should get saved to the memory card, so you wouldn't need to go back and change it.

 

[Wonnie]

What version of the hack pack are you using? If you are using 2.07, that debug toggle should get saved to the memory card, so you wouldn't need to go back and change it.

I'm using 2.07 without a memory card at the current moment. I'll look into picking one up some time in the near future (if I can find one) after I move.

 

[Achilles1515]

I'm using 2.07 without a memory card at the current moment. I'll look into picking one up some time in the near future (if I can find one) after I move.

If you don't have a memory card, then open up your DOL file in a hex editor to change the default value.

 

[Smellyhobo101]

Would there be any way to bring camera controls back to debug mode? I use the c-stick for aerials a lot in debug mode but it would be great if there was still some way to move the camera around. Maybe something like dpad direction + c-stick moves camera? Or maybe just a toggle? In the normal debug mode you could also press up on the dpad to toggle between the normal camera, a fixed camera, and an up close camera. I'm not sure why that functionality was removed. Could it be brought back in any form?

 

[Qual_]

Achilles, Do you think it will be possible to load a custom characters files, in the same way you use for alternate costume ?

Because i have a modified ganondorf ( not the MASTERGANON, but this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62FHlrLyojo )

And it could be amazing to have the ability to choose him, but without removing the real ganondorf.

 

[schmooblidon]

Hey Achilles I'm trying to play 2.07 but in the debug menu on the result test menu, all the values are screwed up. For example it shows Rainbow FD: -2143305216 Endless: -2147473920. Some of the other features do not work also. I'd built the iso twice with the exact same results. I have played a previous version with no problems. Any idea what's going wrong?

Edit: literally 10 seconds after posting I think to remove the memory card and it solved the problem. Guess the savefile was messing with it. Btw, cheers Achilles for all your hardwork

 

[Doq]

Achilles, Do you think it will be possible to load a custom characters files, in the same way you use for alternate costume ?

Because i have a modified ganondorf ( not the MASTERGANON, but this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62FHlrLyojo )

And it could be amazing to have the ability to choose him, but without removing the real ganondorf.

I need this.

 

[Achilles1515]

Small tiny minor tweak request: When you select the wireframe, can you set it to is uses the BEST announcer voice in the game? "
FIGHTING WIRE FRAME!"???

I would love that so much.

Done. I'm proud of myself for this one because I didn't add any additional code, only 3 byte replacements within the DOL.

[side note that if I were to change a CSS character ID to Master Hand (like how I've done with Giga Bowser, and the wireframes, etc. when you press Z), the announcer WILL say "Master Hand". Since I don't have a toggle for Master Hand, SFX ID for the announcer to say Master Hand will be unused]

I started with InternetExplorer's code to find sound effect IDs (coupled with the Sound Test for "FIghting Wire Frames", thanks @Goatlink) to find the ID for "Fighting Wire Frames". Then set a breakpoint at the function that produces sound effects, and traced back where the announcer voice sound effect IDs were coming from. Then figured out the pointers for placing an announcer sound effect ID into the necessary register (r3) based on the character ID. Turns out if a wireframe was selected, it was skipping this.

So I did two main changes:

1) The SFX value for the announcer saying "Master Hand" was changed to him saying "Fighting Wire Frames".
2) The pointer for skipping over a character SFX ID if Wireframes were chosen was changed to point to incur the SFX value for "Master Hand", which is now "Fighting Wire Frames"

It will be on all releases from here on out. And...idk...this might mess up classic mode if the announcer says "Master Hand" at any point.

20XX 2.07-3 Wireframe Announcer Test.dol

 

[CoBam]

Thanks for all the hard work. I absolutely love this hack!

 

[Achilles1515]

Achilles, Do you think it will be possible to load a custom characters files, in the same way you use for alternate costume ?

Because i have a modified ganondorf ( not the MASTERGANON, but this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62FHlrLyojo )

And it could be amazing to have the ability to choose him, but without removing the real ganondorf.

I need this.

Yes, you can.

As an example:

Replace TyPy.dat in the Melee filesystem with your Captain Ganondorf PlGn.dat file. (you will need to rebuild the ISO using GCR to do this, like with the 20XX file replacements, because PlGn.dat is a larger file than TyPy.dat)

And then run the game with this Gecko code enabled:
2846B108 00000061
043d2cd8 506c476e
CC000000 00000000
E2100000 00000000
043d2cd8 54795079
E2000001 00000000

Hitting L+R+D-Pad Left will switch between regular Ganondorf and Custom Ganondorf. But this is just a primitive code to show you this is possible. I would only use that toggle on the CSS.

This is why I say it's possible to implement SDR chars (ignoring the frame speed mods, as of now) and PAL chars into one ISO. I still need to do some investigating of possible file replacments and things.

(I tested this code in Dolphin with @Itaru 's MasterGanon)

 

[Doq]

Yes, you can.

As an example:

Replace TyPy.dat in the Melee filesystem with your Captain Ganondorf PlGn.dat file. (you will need to rebuild the ISO using GCR to do this, like with the 20XX file replacements, because PlGn.dat is a larger file than TyPy.dat)

And then run the game with this Gecko code enabled:
2846B108 00000061
043d2cd8 506c476e
CC000000 00000000
E2100000 00000000
043d2cd8 54795079
E2000001 00000000

Hitting L+R+D-Pad Left will switch between regular Ganondorf and Custom Ganondorf. But this is just a primitive code to show you this is possible. I would only use that toggle on the CSS.

This is why I say it's possible to implement SDR chars (ignoring the frame speed mods, as of now) and PAL chars into one ISO. I still need to do some investigating of possible file replacments and things.

(I tested this code in Dolphin with @Itaru 's MasterGanon)

Wasn't talking about the feature, although this is very

I was talking about the actual Ganon PSA that qual is using.

e~ although I do want to know how that works!

 

[Todd Bonney]

Done. I'm proud of myself for this one because I didn't add any additional code, only 3 byte replacements within the DOL.

[side note that if I were to change a CSS character ID to Master Hand (like how I've done with Giga Bowser, and the wireframes, etc. when you press Z), the announcer WILL say "Master Hand". Since I don't have a toggle for Master Hand, SFX ID for the announcer to say Master Hand will be unused]

I started with InternetExplorer's code to find sound effect IDs (coupled with the Sound Test for "FIghting Wire Frames", thanks @Goatlink) to find the ID for "Fighting Wire Frames". Then set a breakpoint at the function that produces sound effects, and traced back where the announcer voice sound effect IDs were coming from. Then figured out the pointers for placing an announcer sound effect ID into the necessary register (r3) based on the character ID. Turns out if a wireframe was selected, it was skipping this.

So I did two main changes:

1) The SFX value for the announcer saying "Master Hand" was changed to him saying "Fighting Wire Frames".
2) The pointer for skipping over a character SFX ID if Wireframes were chosen was changed to point to incur the SFX value for "Master Hand", which is now "Fighting Wire Frames"

It will be on all releases from here on out. And...idk...this might mess up classic mode if the announcer says "Master Hand" at any point.

20XX 2.07-3 Wireframe Announcer Test.dol

I love reading the technical stuff. Thanks, Achilles.

 

[hectohertz]

Done. I'm proud of myself for this one because I didn't add any additional code, only 3 byte replacements within the DOL.

[side note that if I were to change a CSS character ID to Master Hand (like how I've done with Giga Bowser, and the wireframes, etc. when you press Z), the announcer WILL say "Master Hand". Since I don't have a toggle for Master Hand, SFX ID for the announcer to say Master Hand will be unused]

I started with InternetExplorer's code to find sound effect IDs (coupled with the Sound Test for "FIghting Wire Frames", thanks @Goatlink) to find the ID for "Fighting Wire Frames". Then set a breakpoint at the function that produces sound effects, and traced back where the announcer voice sound effect IDs were coming from. Then figured out the pointers for placing an announcer sound effect ID into the necessary register (r3) based on the character ID. Turns out if a wireframe was selected, it was skipping this.

So I did two main changes:

1) The SFX value for the announcer saying "Master Hand" was changed to him saying "Fighting Wire Frames".
2) The pointer for skipping over a character SFX ID if Wireframes were chosen was changed to point to incur the SFX value for "Master Hand", which is now "Fighting Wire Frames"

It will be on all releases from here on out. And...idk...this might mess up classic mode if the announcer says "Master Hand" at any point.

20XX 2.07-3 Wireframe Announcer Test.dol

yes. i love reading this kind of writeup. 8/8

 

[Drodeka]

Is there any way to make the CPU perfectly random tech? One of the things I want to practice most is tech chasing with Marth, but I didn't see any options for it
If there isn't, that's fine, I can deal. If there is, let me know!
Also if there isn't, consider putting one in, though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the first person to ask.

 

[Achilles1515]

Is there any way to make the CPU perfectly random tech? One of the things I want to practice most is tech chasing with Marth, but I didn't see any options for it
If there isn't, that's fine, I can deal. If there is, let me know!
Also if there isn't, consider putting one in, though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the first person to ask.

What do you mean by perfectly random tech? P2 CPU will automatically do some random teching.

 

[TerryJ]

What do you mean by perfectly random tech? P2 CPU will automatically do some random teching.

I think he means make it tech every time rather than mix in missed techs.

 

[Achilles1515]

I think he means make it tech every time rather than mix in missed techs.

For this, open your DOL file in a hex editor and change the value at offset 0x820 from 4180000C to 4800000C.

 

[Drodeka]

For this, open your DOL file in a hex editor and change the value at offset 0x820 from 4180000C to 4800000C.

I didn't understand what that meant at all
I have no history with modifying Smash and it took me a decent amount of work to even get the hack running.

 

[TerryJ]

I didn't understand what that meant at all
I have no history with modifying Smash and it took me a decent amount of work to even get the hack running.

I went ahead and made the change to the .dol file for you, I used the latest version (2.07-2). All this took was opening the file in a hex editor and changing one value, very easy. Download Here

All you need to do to add this to your game is open your ISO with GC-Tool, and replace the file start.dol with the new one you've just downloaded. Or, you can do it the same way you (presumably) made your 20XX ISO, by replacing the start.dol file located in \root\&&systemdata with the new one and then rebuilding your ISO with GC-Rebuilder.

 

[Achilles1515]

I went ahead and made the change to the .dol file for you, I used the latest version (2.07-2). All this took was opening the file in a hex editor and changing one value, very easy. Download Here

All you need to do to add this to your game is open your ISO with GC-Tool, and replace the file start.dol with the new one you've just downloaded. Or, you can do it the same way you (presumably) made your 20XX ISO, by replacing the start.dol file located in \root\&&systemdata with the new one and then rebuilding your ISO with GC-Rebuilder.

Thanks.

I didn't understand what that meant at all
I have no history with modifying Smash and it took me a decent amount of work to even get the hack running.

Follow Terry's instructions or theres also a guide on the main post for replacing only the DOL file.

 

[hectohertz]

Is there any way to make the CPU perfectly random tech? One of the things I want to practice most is tech chasing with Marth, but I didn't see any options for it
If there isn't, that's fine, I can deal. If there is, let me know!
Also if there isn't, consider putting one in, though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the first person to ask.

btw, if you are only practicing tech-chasing against a computer that always techs, you will be totally screwed when you play an opponent who mixes up tech + missed tech. practice on the 20XX AIs and learn your flowcharts

 

[hectohertz]

btw @ Achilles1515 i know you are not sure what exactly to work on next, so here are some fairly simple requests that i think would be useful for a variety of training scenarios (ordered from simplest to most complicated):

- updated infographic
- falco with variable SHL timings
- better tech-chasing (spacies work great, but falcon almost always techs in place).
- turn a % display into the number of frames p1 was on the ledge before dropping (many different ledgestalls/ledge tricks require dropping from the ledge on the first possible frame, its often VERY difficult to tell how off you are)
- better uthrow-uair practice (the fox misses the uair a decent amount of the time, especially if you DI)
- an easier to use move spammer code. for instance, i would love to be able to "save" that the move i was spamming is utilt (maybe through the debug menu), so that i can just have a button combination to get p2 to spam utilt. trying to get the move spammer to register an utilt can be difficult, and has to be done everytime i restart (since i often crash the pack using savestates). alternatively, i think the "fsmash spammer" could easily be adapted for something like this.



as always, i appreciate the work youre doing, and would love to support this project however i could (donations, getting you equipment, etc). also i LOVED reading that writeup of how the newest code works (as someone who frequently reads exploits + security papers, its so fun to see those same things being applied to my other passion...MERRRLERRRR)


<3

 

[Vetoed]

Hello. First and foremost, I would like to thank you for this hack. It is incredible in so many ways, an amazing piece of art. I am very grateful for something like this to have been created. It's the reason I signed up to this site.

I also want to thank Scar and Toph for making me aware of it during a MIOM stream where it was featured.


But I came here with a question. Is there a way to make computer L-cancel every attack of theirs? I don't think that's a feature and I have no idea if it's feasible, however I wanted to bring it up as it would help practice against normal computers a whole lot. Thanks.

 

[Sorry:(]

I hit a snag with Dual 1v1.

Firstly it's amazing! However:

- Should the first person to win a duel be vulnerable to the other players yet unable to harm them?

- Also CPUs act oddly. When team mode was on they won't attack the player to are set up to duel, I assume because they consider them a team mate. When I turned team mode off after enabling dual 1v1, they just attacked everyone like a normal free-for-all (though they could only hurt the appropriate person).

Could this be fixed by flipping who is read as a team mate by CPUs when team colors are on?

Again, I'm sending you serious props achilles for making this. How did Sakurai never come up with it?

 

[Drodeka]

I went ahead and made the change to the .dol file for you, I used the latest version (2.07-2). All this took was opening the file in a hex editor and changing one value, very easy. Download Here

All you need to do to add this to your game is open your ISO with GC-Tool, and replace the file start.dol with the new one you've just downloaded. Or, you can do it the same way you (presumably) made your 20XX ISO, by replacing the start.dol file located in \root\&&systemdata with the new one and then rebuilding your ISO with GC-Rebuilder.

Thank you very much!

btw, if you are only practicing tech-chasing against a computer that always techs, you will be totally screwed when you play an opponent who mixes up tech + missed tech. practice on the 20XX AIs and learn your flowcharts

I didn't know the CPU's did that. Now I feel stupid.
I'm going to bounce back and forth practicing on both, because I've played people who always tech and I want to be ready for that.
I have a huge problem tech chasing. I think I just have really slow reaction times. When I have been tech chasing the spacies in 20XX, they almost always shine before I grab them. The shine doesn't even hit me, that's how slow I am.
EDIT: I grab them after they shine. If it were an opponent, they could just spot dodge.