Ten reasons I dropped Mega Man

[Sleek Media]

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[Nu~]

Interesting...
I have my share of agreements (when I realized that pacman can Nair/Dair through pellets...lol) and disagreements (the body hit of Nair can beat out some stuff when people are trying to sex kick their way in) but ultimately I can see where you're coming from.

Who are you switching to if I might ask?

 

[Sleek Media]

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[Rush 2112]

Meh, I can't really agree with much but I'm not going to say anything specific. Although how can you complain that opponents can just jump over our MB but a Greninja shuriken is a big deal? Shuriken needs to be charged up a bit for it to beat pellet and if they are charging more than that it's easy to jump and downward MB. End of shuriken camping.

So long, don't let the boss door hit ya on the way out

 

[Reecepect]

Is there any footage of your mega man about? Because 90% of these reasons seem like personal problems and putting my bias as a solo mega main aside, i still don't agree with a lot of the things said. Still it's your opinion at the end of the day so do what you want, I doubt anyone will try to stop you. Mario is a good choice if it means anything.

 

[---]

I don't fully agree with everything listed, which I remember was argued to death back in the CI thread already, but I do agree with the bottom line which is that there are characters who are easier to play or offer more reward, or both. If you're playing to win, then by all means choose a character that fits your long-term goals better, especially if you're not having fun.


Just remember to keep this thread constructive. I have to close enough rant threads in the General Board as is. lol

 

[Mega-Spider]

Not to sound like a huge jerk, but that explains your large pessimistic attitude towards this character.

Honestly, I feel that a lot of your reasons are personal. This character isn't for you, plain and simple. Despite the flaws you've listed, Megs has had and will continue to have decent success in competitive play. On your viewpoint on being a fan of the franchise, I feel the same way towards Sonic. I love the Sonic series despite the ups and downs it's been through, but I'm not very good with Sonic, hence why I dropped him for Kirby. I know that it's stupid to drop a top tier for a lower tiered character in competitive play, but I'm not a competitive player and just enjoy talking with other people about Smash Bros. That and I just have more fun with Kirby than I do with Sonic.

Don't take this as me discrediting you. You may have a lot of problems with this character, and while I may not agree with the majority of your points, I'm not going to call you stupid or misguided for it. Go play with some other character and enjoy them.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I feel like part of the problem here is that your expecting moves to work the way you want them too, rather than looking at where and when moves are most effective. I'm not saying that you shouldn't drop megaman, just that it seems like the issues you're having stem from assumptions you're making about how you think a move should work versus how it actually works in practice. If what I'm thinking is right, megaman isn't the problem and you may have similar issues with other characters when their moves don't behave the way you think they should.

 

[Mythzotick]

How are we even allowed to respond with "constructive criticism" when you say something like...

Don't react with a bunch of defensive nonsense telling me how wrong I am, how pellets are the best neutral in the game, how we have no disadvantages, how Kamemushi proves that Mega Man is top tier despite barely winning Shiek sets where he had three favorable SDs, etc. I will not respond.

and then proceeds to either state some "facts" that are completely false or options that aren't being used correctly?

None the less though, not everyone is going to want to main Mega Man. It's kind of why we have balance patches and a roster that has over 50 characters.

 

[Sleek Media]

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[Diamond Octobot]

*puts up a section in bold red italic text specifically stating that this isn't a debate thread, and that I won't respond when people get defensive*

Most of the regular posters get defensive and try to provoke a debate anyway.

I guess I'm one of them then XD
But if you feel worn out playing Mega Man, feel free to swich to another character. As said above, we have 50+ characters, so dropping one shouldn't feel / be considered awkward.

Best of luck with Rosalina & Luma

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Putting something in bold red italics italics doesn't exempt you from debating responses. Regardless of whether or not you agree or disagree with what people are saying, people are going to discuss and debate what you're saying, especially given the mildly inflammatory nature of your post. The majority of replies seem to have the same consensus. The problem isn't in mega himself, but in your perception of how you think he should work vs how he actually works. Take it or leave it, but that mentality isn't a flaw exclusive to megaman. Assuming that moves should work the way you want them too rather than looking objectively at what moves are good and when, will cause you problems on any character.

 

[Sleek Media]

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[Mega-Spider]

Actually, yes it does exempt me. I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US, I'm not beholden to your every whim and insecurity. Mega Man is an average character with big flaws that hold him back. Deny it if you want, but it's just talk. None of you are getting results.

It's one thing to want to work on a character and figure out a way to advance the meta. It's another thing to flatly deny a character's flaws, bad MUs, etc like this board does endlessly. That's why I'm not interested in a discussion. You don't want to discuss anything. You just want reassurance.

Sure, because we always ignore the faults of our character. That's why we try to find out what situations to use those moves. That's why we're well aware of our faults and do everything we can to work with those faults. It also doesn't help that Megs doesn't exactly have a concrete MU spreadsheet. We all have our own ideas, but there's not one that the majority of us can agree on. We don't just go "Hey guys, we need to discuss Megs' faults," because we know them by now. It's almost as if you're oversimplifying things because we don't bring up the cons as often as you would like them, or better yet, maybe we think Megs is better than what you give him credit for. I feel the same way about Pac-Man since I don't think he's as good as some people make him out to be.

Listen man, I don't care if you think you're exempt from this type of discussion, but when you make a thread stating on why you dropped this character, you're going to attract people to it. There's no getting around that. I apologize if I'm coming off as "offended" or that I'm "denying the truth," or whatever you're going to label me as. I just don't think it's fair to label us like that when that's not true at all. Sure, there are probably a couple of bad apples that do that, but most of us don't. We acknowledge our flaws and we work with them. Simple as that.

 

[Sleek Media]

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[Diamond Octobot]

Uhhh... The thing is, most of us (if not all) are already aware of Mega Man's weaknesses, but even with them, he still does have some things that DO work...

You can focus only on the flaws of a character if you want. That's one way to see things. But outright denying that he has things that work will never get you anywhere.

I'm not talking about Jiggs here (because poor Jiggs can't get some rest /buffs, no joke), but you have to try to see how to handle your character in every single situation.
Yes, we have awful approaches and disadvantage states, we do have some really bad MUs, and that's why Mega Man isn't top tier (and might never be). But these MUs are still manageable, althrough they are REAAAALY hard. And if you just can't deal with them, you still can pick a secondary. Smasher1001 is my best example here, since he has a Mario too. Or take ScAtt who went with both Ryu & Cloud.

A character having flaws isn't a fatality, it's an opportunity. If a character was flawless, where would the fun be in playing the game ? Even in Melee, Fox isn't able to take everything. (yes, I picked Melee even if I don't play it. Silly me XD )



Just to end this rant, I'll say that WE ARE AWARE OF OUR WEAKNESSES, AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THEM. That's what we are supposed to do.

Edit : Forget it if you want, I got ninja'd
And if you straight out want to leave the boards, feel free to do so. We won't hold you back. Just don't answer if you don't think it is necessary. :-/

 

[Mega-Spider]

Guys, I think we get the point. Let's just move on from this. Megs isn't Sleek's character and let's leave it at that.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Posting that doesn't exempt you from others debating your opinion, idc if you participate in it or not. All it means if you aren't willing to discuss and debate the reasons that you dropped megaman is that this whole thread is just a big whine. If you didn't post on a forum intending to discuss solutions for your problems, then why bother at all?

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

I'm debating dropping mega man as well sadly. I've got strong with much of his tech, but ultimately I just don't think I'm good enough or have enough time to dedicate to this game to overcome his weaknesses. In particular, his minimal combo game and difficulty killing. There are just too many characters that can combo mega man like crazy and have good kill set ups (mario, sheik, fox, greninja, mewtwo, etc).

I think the game has progressed from one where a strong neutral is critical (which mega man does have), to a meta where it is all about how much damage you can secure with a single opening, and how reliably you can quickly secure a kill. I think this is why a player like an abandogos mewtwo is doing so well right now for example.

Unless you can perfect the footstool combo and the setups for them, I think all mega man players will truly struggle in this meta. Footstool combos are cool, but it's not something I'm really interested in trying to get down and certainly would hate to feel like I must get them to beat good players.

 

[Mega-Spider]

I'm debating dropping mega man as well sadly. I've got strong with much of his tech, but ultimately I just don't think I'm good enough or have enough time to dedicate to this game to overcome his weaknesses. In particular, his minimal combo game and difficulty killing. There are just too many characters that can combo mega man like crazy and have good kill set ups (mario, sheik, fox, greninja, mewtwo, etc).

I think the game has progressed from one where a strong neutral is critical (which mega man does have), to a meta where it is all about how much damage you can secure with a single opening, and how reliably you can quickly secure a kill. I think this is why a player like an abandogos mewtwo is doing so well right now for example.

Unless you can perfect the footstool combo and the setups for them, I think all mega man players will truly struggle in this meta. Footstool combos are cool, but it's not something I'm really interested in trying to get down and certainly would hate to feel like I must get them to beat good players.

I don't think that's entirely true. Having a strong neutral is still a very important aspect to have, but the meta is progressing in a way that is gearing towards being fast with how much damage you can rack up. Also, the footstool combo isn't that hard to pull off. It takes some practice, yes, but it's a very good punish option, something else this current meta seems to be incorporating.

 

[LRodC]

Honestly, nobody cares. You can't just post a huge wall of text about dropping a character and then try to silence all discussion. You're just looking for attention.

I dropped Mega Man as a main myself a year ago, but I didn't go on a huge tirade on why I was doing so. I just did it because I didn't enjoy him. It looks like that's your reason too.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

This is funny, Mega Man is not a bad character. He is top 20 and completely solo viable with one of the best matchup spreads (other than the top 5-7)

If you are going to say those things than leaving mega man is the right choice for you, although you are going to have a tough time learning another character and not saying similar things about your new character.

Every char has weaknesses, you are not acknowledging the strengths enough.

*Waits for Sleeks post about Rosa's problems*

Too Light
No hitbox recovery
No get off me move
Dies at 50% to fsmash on the ledge

and the list goes on....

 

[Megamang]

Eh, im worried about people learning the MU after kame's success so... yea, more people dropping him = more success for me.

No reason to argue people to stay guys. No reason to play a character you dont enjoy.

 

[Tino]

Such bold responses here. Honestly, I don't care if someone drops a character for whatever reasons that person has, there is no point debating them over it especially if they made up their minds.

Mega Man was one of my mains since the 3DS version came out but sadly, I made the painful decision to drop him not because of some lame competitive reasons but because I didn't have time to play some more of his games. I can't play a character I could not find the time to get into playing their games.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Eh, im worried about people learning the MU after kame's success so... yea, more people dropping him = more success for me.

No reason to argue people to stay guys. No reason to play a character you dont enjoy.

We weren't arguing with Sleek to make him reconsider dropping Megs. We were upset because he gave his reasons as to why he dropped Megs and basically said "Don't even try to talk about this," in a rather degrading way. You can drop a character without making announcing it publicly.

Such bold responses here. Honestly, I don't care if someone drops a character for whatever reasons that person has, there is no point debating them over it especially if they made up their minds.

Mega Man was one of my mains since the 3DS version came out but sadly, I made the painful decision to drop him not because of some lame competitive reasons but because I didn't have time to play some more of his games. I can't play a character I could not find the time to get into playing their games.

It's a shame that you couldn't find the time to play some of Megs's games. When I decided to main Kirby in Smash 4, I went back and played the entries in his series I haven't played, like Amazing Mirror and Dream Land 3. I still have to play a few of his games like Mass Attack and Epic Yarn, but I played the majority of the main series. I mean, you could still play Megs without playing his games, but I see that you're one of those people who would rather be familiar with the character and series before considering the idea of playing them. I'm the same way, hence why I made the time to play more of Kirby's games.

You're still welcome here. It's not like you aren't allowed back here if you don't play Megs anymore.

 

[Tino]

It's a shame that you couldn't find the time to play some of Megs's games. When I decided to main Kirby in Smash 4, I went back and played the entries in his series I haven't played, like Amazing Mirror and Dream Land 3. I still have to play a few of his games like Mass Attack and Epic Yarn, but I played the majority of the main series. I mean, you could still play Megs without playing his games, but I see that you're one of those people who would rather be familiar with the character and series before considering the idea of playing them. I'm the same way, hence why I made the time to play more of Kirby's games.

You're still welcome here. It's not like you aren't allowed back here if you don't play Megs anymore.

I still play as him from time to time though. I guess a part of me will always be with Mega Man...or "Megs"...especially after all the good times...and bad...I had with him and I'm thankful for that.

And thank you for the thought. I'll still keep in touch in the social thread.

 

[Megamang]

Mega-Spider

Ive argued with sleek a lot; so i totally understand. Ive now agreed to disagree with his reasoning. I realized that even if he doesnt want to play mega for reasons i consider odd, the base fact is he doesnt enjoy mega so... he should drop him.

I totally agree that you cant just say 'no one discuss this' if the topic is mega on the megaman boards. Fortunately, if someone isnt a mod they cant stifle discussion anyways

 

[Mythzotick]

Tino One or two reasons I feel that people may have a hard time "fully" enjoying playing/maining a certain character in a crossover game like Smash without ever having played much or anything from whatever franchise that character is from originally may have something to do with the mindset that they feel like they don't have the right to main or play this character because they didn't grew up with this character and franchise ala not a "true fan" or they don't wan't to be labeled as a band wagoner, generic character "main", or a tier ***** if they're playing a character that's really good/really popular; which makes sense and yet it also sucks that we can sometimes feel like that because there are people out there that can have some pretty vile opinions.

Even I've been at that point a decent number of times. For example, there are hardly any characters that I actually really like playing as in Brawl mainly due to the fact that they really ruined a lot of my favorite characters from N64 and Melee like Yoshi, Fox, Jigglypuff or to me "Sleepypuff", Captain Falcon, etc. in almost every category such as aesthetics, designs, animations, sound effects, and for how bad most of them are. However, one of the few characters that I did really liked playing as and still do to this day is Pit. I liked how interesting his moveset was in particular to how versatile his arrows are and the fact that he is one of only 3 characters in Brawl that can glide (Meta Knight and Charizard are the other 2) as well as him being an old school character; which I'm really biased when it comes to old school characters mostly. Unfortunately though, I was always slightly bothered by the fact that I never played Kid Icarus (NES), latter on when Kid Icarus: Uprising got released, and with the whole him being an angel, serving a goddess in Palutena, and his origins being about greek mythology all made me feel like I was unworthy to play this character. Fast forward to today, I've beaten both Kid Icarus and Kid Icarus: Uprising and I really enjoyed playing both of them.

 

[Tino]

Mythzotick At least I don't main or drop my characters over some lame competitive bull****. I'm the same way.

 

[Megamang]

I go to tournaments to have fun. Getting blown up because you are playing a bad character isnt fun. Competitive doesnt mean anti fun.


That said, mega does fine in tourmanent settings. Blip blip blip yall


(Dont call people out please, lets keep the board civil)

 

[BSP]

It's one thing to want to work on a character and figure out a way to advance the meta. It's another thing to flatly deny a character's flaws, bad MUs, etc as this board does endlessly.

Ran into some of the same stuff in my own character struggles back in the past (https://smashboards.com/threads/pro...suggestions-on-how-to-make-him-viable.438704/). I can't say whether or not the stuff you said is wrong or not, but I definitely know the feeling you're talking about. From my perspective, your OP was just a vent that didn't come off as inflammatory to an uninformed reader (me.)

I wish I could give some advice on finding a good character for you, but it seems like you're set on Rosa and Mario luckily. I hope it goes well.


Pro tip: acknowledge the character's strengths in your rant or else you get completely dismissed as a complainer. You seem like you put though into this, so I'll assume you understand MM's strengths to some degree at least.

 

[Yink]

While I disagree and agree with many things you've said (as did multiple people), I did want to say I'm happy that you made the decision you personally needed to make in order to better yourself in Smash 4. Mega's not for everybody, if you think he hinders your winning and enjoyment you need to move on (and you did). Everyone in this thread should remember that.

If you ever decide to come back to Mega you know where to find us Sleek. I personally myself think Mega has a fine future ahead of him and people have pushed him far already. Cheers.

 

[xIvan321]

This is funny, Mega Man is not a bad character. He is top 20 and completely solo viable with one of the best matchup spreads (other than the top 5-7)

If you are going to say those things than leaving mega man is the right choice for you, although you are going to have a tough time learning another character and not saying similar things about your new character.

Every char has weaknesses, you are not acknowledging the strengths enough.

*Waits for Sleeks post about Rosa's problems*

Too Light
No hitbox recovery
No get off me move
Dies at 50% to fsmash on the ledge

and the list goes on....

Not to mention when you get rid of Luma, she can't land. (even then her floatiness is a problem for characters who juggle well.) She has problems herself.

Moving on to this thread I can't say I disagree with all of it, but I do largely disagree with a lot of it. The reasoning simply comes off as a little awful while some complaints are legitimate but your explanation for it is incorrect.

being ever so light for those who'd like to get to the point, I would start off from the top to bottom:

1) "Broken moveset" What you mentioned is broken is not nearly as problematic as you might lead on to. We are no Samus which is a character that rewards spacing, with questionable moves on hit that are otherwise imperative to how she should function competitively. Many characters actually have similar issues, but much like Mega Man, not nearly to the same degree as I mentioned: Samus. I'm not the kind that points fingers and lacks a well explained example but for this one post, I'll be doing that a lot here. Anyways, I truly believe our design was just fine and just the way it was intended.

2) "Gets outcamped" Where do I even begin? Smash 4 is a very defensive game and that's simply how neutral game works, and going by the rest of the post it sounds like you primarily focused on the technical part of Mega Man, and not the fundamentals when we consider reasons 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, & 9. In a nutshell, I would say running away from Mega Man is best to do, but to even begin camping Mega Man is actually very difficult and you sound like you struggle with those MUs because you do not know them. For instance against I do especially disagree camping Mega Man with Link. He's the character that needs to deal with your camp because he doesn't have solid ways to deal with them while Mega Man on the other hand does... making him have to come to you, get caught during his end lag or blind spots. Toon Link on the other hand is a more difficult variation because his end lag isn't nearly as terrible, his bombs also take much longer to explode, etc.

To wrap this up real quick, I'll give my opinion on who camps Mega Man: Sheik: YES. Cloud, Diddy, Mewtwo, Sonic: NO and Lucas is pretty much the Toon Link MU tier which means in a nutshell either gets the lead and that's gonna be difficult to get back from. (assuming you know, you don't edge guard Lucas.)

3) I'm not gonna write this one out but its hard to get kills, not impossible to get them. At this point you let your fundamentals carry you which isn't a bad thing. I feel this is the same for most of the cast too and our MUs. You can't really grab Mega Man if he's throwing pellets carefully thus pro-longing the game combined with your own weight. So while Mega Man doesn't always have a grab to kill option, he does have set ups and a lot is just fundamental or honest.

4) Look I can't say I entirely disagree with you, but do you really need a wave bounce to be a landing option? Mega Man may not have the best landing options, but striking flat stages competitively help a lot combined with his decent aerial mobility. Honest though lots of characters also struggle trying to land against us while its still a valid criticism, please do consider how the other side feels about fighting us. Its as terrible.

5) But you have more than just grab, and up smash. There is pellets, up tilt, and back air which are all highly rewarding. Especially back air since it can serve too as an anti-air along side your f-smash, up smash, or down tilt. Also Mega Man has an item, he can make any bit of spacing seem uncared for and get a follow up from it. I mean just look at Diddy Kong players, they do it all the time.

6) All of whats said here is not true; not even the slightest. You don't need tech to win as Mega Man, you can get by with simply neutral and fundamentals. There is techniques that make you better at killing, but what good is that if you have no idea how to play neutral or have the fundamentals to back up half baked attempts of trying to win. I'm sorry if you aren't putting that tech in good harmony between fundamentals you aren't getting anywhere.

Even then footstools are still pretty hard to avoid when this game doesn't let your spacing be 100% full proof. Why: Running into shield, perfect shielding or avoiding like spot dodging or jumping for the most part don't care about your spacing which is why its good. Assuming your opponent will not leave one opening somewhere throughout the whole match is impossible in a game like Smash 4. One can argue you are over crediting players while I say: No... its very complex! Meaning there is no shame in losing to something like this.

7) So what you are saying is you don't anti-air; use other moves? Pellets exist to control the neutral's pace and before a player invades your own zone you have to anti-air them one way or another. Outside of that you can still aim your pellets to hit the player rather than the defensive hitbox. You can try to beat pellets, but there aren't many MUs that actually stop Mega Man from using pellets.

8) What's that? Run into their up smash? Gotcha!

9) Boring tech? This is the part where I remind you again that focusing on this tech won't further you as a Mega Man player alone. You need a lot more than just that and all of these techniques are simply just things you never stop trying to learn over time assuming you have the patience to try. Even if you never learn it, who cares? I've won matches by just reacting to a player's roll get up enabling me to up tilt them. Also Kamemushi shows you well when you put your thumb over your the footstool combos that safe neutral game and fundamentals alone are great enough to rival anyone's character.

Welp, I completely understand Mega Man was never the intended character for you and respect your opinion. If you ever come back, you know exactly where to find us. We'll look forward to that.