Techchasing Fastfallers: an extensive guide

[Doromac]

Wouldn't it be best if down smash after down throw on a platform? They wouldn't have much room to roll, and if they tech away, their tech roll would be cut short by the platform, right? It could easily take the stock too, right?

Right, right?

 

[-ACE-]

Wouldn't it be best if down smash after down throw on a platform? They wouldn't have much room to roll, and if they tech away, their tech roll would be cut short by the platform, right?

You ARE more likely to hit the dsmash if they are on the platform because of their inability to techroll away, BUT they can avoid the 2nd hit with SDI (and only ASDI + DI sometimes). It also doesn't pop your opponent up in as good of a place as dair does imo (given you land the 2nd hit). But yes, it can be a very good option in that situation for option coverage, damage, and starting a combo.

It could easily take the stock too, right?

Typically, no. If they are at high enough % that a dsmash would kill them, they could DI the dthrow and not land on the platform. At lower percents dsmash doesn't do a great job of sending your opponent offstage (with the exception of the first hit semi-spiking them offstage on occasion), but sometimes it can lead to a fair which would do the trick (offstage = stock).

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i would think there were better options, but in a similar situation, would dtilt to aerial work? it seems like when it pops people up, it does so consistently, but it may be a similar situation with the dsmash; if they have enough damage to be popped up the right distance they wouldn't have been on the platform, or if they didn't have that much damage, they could di the dtilt downwards and not be popped up.

i just wanted to see your input on dtilt

 

[-ACE-]

Dtilt to aerial could work, but I think if they DI the dtilt away it's pretty hard to follow up. Also the dtilt has massive cooldown time, so if you miss they can punish you.

 

[Doromac]

I tried the dthrow to dsmash on the platform, and you are right.

 

[RestInPeace]

Dtilt works if they DI away. Even if they SDI away, you can still land a Fair/Down B.

 

[-ACE-]

Dtilt works if they DI away. Even if they SDI away, you can still land a Fair/Down B.

At a certain % range sure. Dtilt to down B is so situational lol, there are much better options.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Wow, this guide is beautiful and informative, those gifs absolutely ****.

Way to set the bar really really high for all future guide.

Top notch work.

 

[RestInPeace]

Magus was here. What did you expect?

 

[T-Cash]

nice post what do you say to gannon being a tournament character
will he be able to compete with top tiers

 

[RestInPeace]

Kage just beat Mango. Pound 4 will be exciting.

 

[DJRome]

q:it seems like these chars should just tech away in many cases. how does ganon cover these options?

 

[-ACE-]

q:it seems like these chars should just tech away in many cases. how does ganon cover these options?

Lol go to the first post troll.

 

[DJRome]

lol, despite the read, i could not find anything. just options you can cover that don't include it.

 

[rason110290]

Gosh, I wish there was something similar to this for Jigglypuff. This guide was extremely informative, in a sense that visuals accompanied by text is effective.

I feel like trying out Ganon now

 

[-ACE-]

lol, despite the read, i could not find anything. just options you can cover that don't include it.

You didn't read what I wrote then.

To punish tech roll away you can dash and fair/dair, side-b, or down-b. At low% if you can land the dair then do it, but if they're at med% or higher (or near the edge at any point) you want to fair them offstage. I went over it in the first part of the first post.

 

[DJRome]

i think i was using the guide incorrectly. so basically each option not covered by a maneuver can be covered by another? and each should be guess based on the assessment of the player?

also on those such as the fall off the platform from dthrow, what do you do when they tech away?

 

[-ACE-]

i think i was using the guide incorrectly. so basically each option not covered by a maneuver can be covered by another?

On a flat surface free of platforms, there is always a way to cover every option.

and each should be guess based on the assessment of the player?

Not entirely. Maybe I'll answer this one later, it's complicated.

also on those such as the fall off the platform from dthrow, what do you do when they tech away?

That is one instance where they are probably safe.

 

[Dark Hart]

This is an amazing thread.

 

[SlimNasty]

Good **** ACE. Very Niiicee

Nice guide ACE. For the sideB tech chase you can use it on the top platform of BF with additional option that you won't get anywhere else. What you do is sideB and hold the opposite direction, if you hit, you get to follow up accordingly but if you whiff it when Ganon falls off the platform if you stay holding the opposite direction you will edge cancel on the bottom platform and get an opportunity to do an aerial from below or evade if you want.

Lol Ive been doing this for quite a while but failed to post or discuss about it. I used it against Scar at the gigs tourney and destroyed his stock, he thought i "messed up" lol. He recorded it but i guess decided not to post it for w/e reason. It also surprised Jman at winterfest lol..

Anyway, very useful tech and mind gamy? spell check? Lol

 

[CluelessBTD]

Hey Magus, do you use Dolphin to get your frame data? If so, what are the required specs to run melee at full framerate? I've got a project idea that could help out the Ganon boards.

 

[Magus420]

Nah, I just use AR on the cube. Haven't tried running it on Dolphin.

 

[DJRome]

i'll just say im running 2.8 ghz core 2 duo, ati 3870, 4gb ram and it really sucks. like it freezes and has less than 10 fps. so i would imagine your system would have to be pretty dang good.

 

[-ACE-]

Bump for techchasing talk.

I was thinking (hard to believe, right?)...

...about standing in front of someone when they choose not to tech and just sit in place for a sec. Can you cover all options purely off reaction?

Stand up... Grab
Get up attack... Shield, grab
Roll behind... Bair or pivot jc dash grab
Roll forward... Perfect wavedash to grab

I'm guessing some characters will roll too far away for that last one, but you could probably dash first for a few frames and then wavedash. I'd like to know in what situations this may be viable. Magus? Lol

 

[Magus420]

It depends on the character, but many getup attacks can't be shielded on reaction, and often when they are you powershield them and it pushes you too far away. You'd be better off CCing beforehand and then JC grab. The roll away is where it really won't work though unless it's like Pichu I guess and you could JC grab. WD to grab is too slow since the WD itself is 16, grab is 7, and getup-rolls are 35 leaving you with 11 to react between 1 and 12 when the WD would need to start. Not only is 11 pretty impossible for a choice based reaction, but the animation generally doesn't clearly show which getup they're doing until a bit into the animation so you wouldn't be reacting to seeing fr1.

 

[-ACE-]

Gotcha. I figured it was iffy but I was curious. Thanks for the quick response man.

 

[kupo15]

What about dB for the roll away?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

not on reaction.

 

[kupo15]

maybe walk to dtilt. Dtilt has the furthest grounded reach. Maybe walk ftilt since its faster

 

[-ACE-]

I'd like to know about fully spaced SHFFL'd fair from a dash. I'm sure that would be close....

 

[C 3]

I apologize if somebody already answered this, but in the side-B tech chase example, ganon runs the left and then chooses a side to do side-B on. Do I run to the right if they tech left/in place? or do I just do the same thing regardless?

 

[-ACE-]

You just want to be close to him and hit side-b as soon as he hits the ground. The delay of the side-b matches up perfectly with the timing for both a tech in place and a techroll. And of course it will hit them if they don't tech as well.

 

[C 3]

You just want to be close to him and hit side-b as soon as he hits the ground. The delay of the side-b matches up perfectly with the timing for both a tech in place and a techroll. And of course it will hit them if they don't tech as well.

Thanks for responding, but that doesn't really answer my question. Do I have to change my run direction yes or no?

 

[-ACE-]

What I'm saying is that he runs to the left because you have to be right next to fox (or falco, or falcon) to cover all the options (you won't reach him if he techrolls away otherwise). If he techs to the right, go to the right. If he techs to the left, go to the left. You can side-b left or right out of your walk animation and the initial dash animation.

 

[C 3]

What I'm saying is that he runs to the left because you have to be right next to fox (or falco, or falcon) to cover all the options (you won't reach him if he techrolls away otherwise). If he techs to the right, go to the right. If he techs to the left, go to the left. You can side-b left or right out of your walk animation and the initial dash animation.

Oh alright, sorry. If he techs in place you're already right beside him, so u just go from there.... okay. Do you have msn or aim or somethin?

 

[-ACE-]

Oh alright, sorry. If he techs in place you're already right beside him, so u just go from there.... okay. Do you have msn or aim or somethin?

I have aim but I'm never on. Feel free to PM me whenever though.

Actually, I think I'll log onto aim just because i haven't in forever. oceanwaves83

 

[spider_sense]

I've been watching some of G.Vice vids and I'd have to say, his tech chasing is superb. I was wondering if it's purely reaction or prediction. I can force people to roll, and anticipate it, but I can't seem to punish it in time because their shield is up. So is my reaction time sluggish or is it my prediction that the problem?

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah Zane *****. Easily the best Ganon to ever grace this universe. No matter what anyone says, I'm going to say that it is always MOSTLY prediction, simply due to Ganon's lack of agility/speed. You normally have more than enough time to chase a tech (unless you uthrow a fastfaller at mid% and they DI away AND techroll away, then you basically have to dash and SHFFL a fair immediately), and this is time when you can get sorta fakey with your moves. Dasing, walking, and jumps mostly. The thing is, some people have already chosen which way they are going to tech as soon as you grab them (lawl, but I've seen this happen A LOT), so that leaves you with a basic game of recognize patterns, predict, and punish. For those that pay close attention though (high level players or an above average player that is used to playing a good Ganon or any other character whose game is heavily based on techchasing), you can do little things to fake them out (make them do what you want them to do) during that small window of time you have.

If you dthrow a fastfaller and they land right in front of you, you can do stuff like, fulljump early to make them think you are ready to punish a tech in place with dair, and as soon as you see them roll, hold forward and fair. Or you can jump backward and act like you're going to stomp a techroll behind, and just fair a tech in place. You can also do something like, dash backwards if you dthrow a fastfaller at mid% when he DI's behind, then jump back to punish a techroll forward (roll back to where you where standing initially) with dair.

Those are some of the things that I do anyway, when I get a grab on someone like pp or lozr.

 

[Exdeath]

It's super saddening that the images are gone.

 

[-ACE-]

It's super saddening that the images are gone.

they are? ****!!

@ Magus420 did they get deleted?