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Tech Chasing with Samus (reopened)

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
This topic has not been fully explored, nor should it have been locked, I do not care to continue to discuss it but it should not have been locked by a mod for some trolling existing in that thread...
 

BillNyeTheSamusGuy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
463
@ Litt Litt The hero samusboards deserves

actual tech chasing question:

Could samus potentially do more damage off a dthrow->tech-chase than a uthrow followup/combo on fastfallers? Or is the frame data not in our advantage.
 
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rye_un

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
I think the frame data is not in our advantage sadly. I think regrabbing is too slow to work on a opponent more than once as a gimmick. Or maybe we can do some weird extender tricks idk.
 

343

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
433
Location
Norcal
@ Litt Litt The hero samusboards deserves

actual tech chasing question:

Could samus potentially do more damage off a dthrow->tech-chase than a uthrow followup/combo on fastfallers? Or is the frame data not in our advantage.
maybe we need some dolphin experimentation, but i suspect reaction techchasing with dsmash / dtilt might not work: dash -> wavedash is fast but probably doesn't go far enough to cover DI away -> tech away, while two wavedashes is at least 26 frames.

on the other hand, reading their tech with uptilt or dtilt seems like it could lead to some good stuff? right now, it seems like the goal should be to pop them onto a platform, where it's easier to cover multiple options and they can't tech as far, but maybe in 20xx land this isn't true anymore?
 

GoomySmash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
80
maybe we need some dolphin experimentation, but i suspect reaction techchasing with dsmash / dtilt might not work: dash -> wavedash is fast but probably doesn't go far enough to cover DI away -> tech away, while two wavedashes is at least 26 frames.

on the other hand, reading their tech with uptilt or dtilt seems like it could lead to some good stuff? right now, it seems like the goal should be to pop them onto a platform, where it's easier to cover multiple options and they can't tech as far, but maybe in 20xx land this isn't true anymore?
You should see the data I posted in the original tech chasing thread. I go over that Samus has guaranteed tech chases if you can react within 19 frames and then execute wavedash downsmash frame perfectly. I also go over how AI ->downsmash on a platform can cover every tech option if you get there fast enough.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
The dthrow puts them into a tech situation; Could a non-grab move follow up on the tech?
Yes you can, quite easily against most of the cast just g2 get those reads, also lol ikr, mods on here are getting worse and worse
 
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ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
So on Tuesday, I played against HMW again, and every time I would u-throw him onto the top platform of FoD or Yoshi's, he would intentionally miss the tech, then time his get-up attack to beat my incoming d-air. He did this as both Fox and Falco. Any thoughts on how to counter this?

It seems like there isn't enough time to get to a standing position on the top platform in order to cover all of their options; in the same situation on a side platform, you can just AI or waveland and react with f-smash or d-smash or CC d-smash or shieldgrab or whatever, but when I get them on the top platform, especially on Battlefield or Dreamland, I feel like I need to precommit with a d-air in order to capitalize in time. Can you maybe do something tricky with a waveland or AI on a side platform to get up there faster?

Please help!
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
^ I tend to bomb in these situations actually. If they do getup attack your hurtbox gets so small you basically have nothing to worry about and if they no-tech you get the bomb jump and a reset (and that's when you can dair). This all assumes you read their action, of course, but it works wonders on no techs and is actually a good deal faster than the down air as well.
 

ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
^ I tend to bomb in these situations actually. If they do getup attack your hurtbox gets so small you basically have nothing to worry about and if they no-tech you get the bomb jump and a reset (and that's when you can dair). This all assumes you read their action, of course, but it works wonders on no techs and is actually a good deal faster than the down air as well.
Hm, that actually sounds pretty good! There should be enough time to react to whether they teched or not, and either bomb if they didn't or d-air if they did. The tricky part seems like it'd be making your jump trajectory actually cover both of those situations; you'd need to be moving upwards through them as they land, I think. I'll try it out on 20xx when I get home.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
So on Tuesday, I played against HMW again, and every time I would u-throw him onto the top platform of FoD or Yoshi's, he would intentionally miss the tech, then time his get-up attack to beat my incoming d-air. He did this as both Fox and Falco. Any thoughts on how to counter this?

It seems like there isn't enough time to get to a standing position on the top platform in order to cover all of their options; in the same situation on a side platform, you can just AI or waveland and react with f-smash or d-smash or CC d-smash or shieldgrab or whatever, but when I get them on the top platform, especially on Battlefield or Dreamland, I feel like I need to precommit with a d-air in order to capitalize in time. Can you maybe do something tricky with a waveland or AI on a side platform to get up there faster?

Please help!
Options: AI onto top platform shield their get up attack, shield drop fair/upair, from side of stage under 2 side plats, running full hop ai, then buffer jump with shield and c stick up, and DI towards top plat for a fast nair that covers most options. If you do shield the get up attack, you can bomb OoS on them too or just up b for the free 12%
 
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