TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[justaway12]

Well, my question was, is peach's fan actually composed of iron? It says "War Fan" on that video, but I'm skeptical as to whether her fan is composed of metal or wood. That video is looking down at me, but I'm still searching for an image or refernece or something...


EDIT: :fireball: Joe's laughing at me...

I was said before:
Tessen (鉄扇?) were folding fans with outer spokes made of iron which were designed to look like normal, harmless folding fans.

Doesn't this look a lot like a normal fan?

I'll show you a picture of her fan tommorow, i'm too tired today.

 

[uhmuzing]

I was said before:
Tessen (鉄扇?) were folding fans with outer spokes made of iron which were designed to look like normal, harmless folding fans.

Doesn't this look a lot like a normal fan?

I'll show you a picture of her fan tommorow, i'm too tired today.

Oh, didn't catch that... I don't see how an arrow couldn't just rip through that paper, but the proof's there, I guess.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I know but still much harder, it would give the opponent an advantage

Yes, via the affected limb. But a person is still capable of using the rest of their body.

How mean .

I do it too, you calling me mean?

Obviously she has morals, but she'd be more likely to engage in guerilla tactics, sniping, etc.

Tessen (鉄扇?) were folding fans with outer spokes made of iron which were designed to look like normal, harmless folding fans or solid clubs shaped to look like a closed fan. Samurai could take these to places where swords or other overt weapons were not allowed, and some swordsmanship schools included training in the use of the'tessen as a weapon. The tessen was also used for fending off arrows and darts, as a throwing weapon, and as an aid in swimming


Doesn't that fit the Desicription? I'm going to look more into this since this is only from Wiki but I belive we should use that description (if it's right) for now, don't worry i'll get a more reliable source.

Here is a picture:

looks quite normal to me~

Experts in the use of the tessen were able to parry the blows of spear thrusts using their iron fan according to many Japanese sagas. Also famous for their use of the iron fan were the swordsman who were instructors to the Tokugawa Shoguns. In the literature of the martial arts of that time, there are many instances of victories won with a war fan against a sword, and many examples of men killed by a blow from it. Tessen were also popular with many non-samurai who were forbidden to carry a sword.

This fight seems fairer than people would think, IMO

I was actually gonna post a picture. Yes, that's right, here's the problem.

This is what peach's fan looks like:

You see, I would never underestimate those things and your description is totally correct, they are quite powerful (you're missing some combat uses, what that's not relevant), however, Peach's fan is made out of ordinary folded paper and held together by a tie/piece of tape/piece of fabric/ect at the end.


It doesn't have the spokes which make actual combat fans work, so it's basically slapping somebody with a piece of paper.

I know, but earliear you said there was nothing that implied she was above average, it was long but I just wanted to fill on the blank, i'm ignorant about royalty but isn't the fact that she is a princess mean she is intelligent or atleast know about some thing.

Ah, ok, would've got it if you quoted the section.




Overall, as the picture of her fan CLEARLY shows, it's an "arts and crafts" style fan and is made of paper, with little else of substance, even if we take the base as being steel, it's the spokes that gave the fan it's power.

 

[justaway12]

I was actually gonna post a picture. Yes, that's right, here's the problem.


This is what peach's fan looks like:

You see, I would never underestimate those things and your description is totally correct, they are quite powerful (you're missing some combat uses, what that's not relevant), however, Peach's fan is made out of ordinary folded paper and held together by a tie/piece of tape/piece of fabric/ect at the end.


It doesn't have the spokes which make actual combat fans work, so it's basically slapping somebody with a piece of paper. []

That's not her fan, i'll show you one tommorow i'm in a bit of hurry today.

Ah, ok, would've got it if you quoted the section.

Sorry

EDIT:

best one I could find.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That's not her fan, i'll show you one tommorow i'm in a bit of hurry today.

Source

Sorry

Np.

 

[justaway12]

Source

Not an offical pic, I don't think, at least not from this game

[/B]

 

[uhmuzing]

In the case of one fan being in one game, and a different one in another game, what'd we do?

 

[justaway12]

In the case of one fan being in one game, and a different one in another game, what'd we do?

The thing is, that other one isn't even used for battle, I don't even know where it's from, it cerianly doesn't look like it appeared in any games Peach was playable in.

 

[uhmuzing]

The thing is, that other one isn't even used for battle, I don't even know where it's from, it cerianly doesn't look like it appeared in any games Peach was playable in.

Wait a minute... isn't that the SSB Melee fan?

 

[justaway12]

Wait a minute... isn't that the SSB Melee fan?

Probably, but that's kind of not the point, even if it was Peach's from another game, I think Peach would decide get the stronger fan.


I could see this matchup going either way, but i'm don't think it should be some **** matchup

 

[uhmuzing]

Probably, but that's kind of not the point, even if it was Peach's from another game, I think Peach would decide get the stronger fan.

Well, if its only in one obscure game in the series and its like never mentioned again, I dunno if I'd consider that legitimate...

 

[justaway12]

Well, if its only in one obscure game in the series and its like never mentioned again, I dunno if I'd consider that legitimate...

Why not? It's showing her using it, which means she has had it before, I don't see the problem.

 

[JOE!]

Yeah, Id allow the MRPG Fan.

Peach actually doesnt have much to go on canon-wise, I dont see why we cant let he have a fan she's actually used in a game


@puzzle-solvers:

try and put those numbers you found to use, along with the other hints

 

[adumbrodeus]

Why not? It's showing her using it, which means she has had it before, I don't see the problem.

I agree, but we need to establish what it looks like, to prove that it even CAN be a fighting fan. Then we need to establish that it actually IS a fighting fan. Then we need to establish that Peach actually has training of some sort in it.


@your location:

Spoiler

he swears he will return one day.
Far from the mountains and the seas,
back in her arms he swear he'll be.
Over the hills and far away

 

[justaway12]

I agree, but we need to establish what it looks like, to prove that it even CAN be a fighting fan. Then we need to establish that it actually IS a fighting fan. Then we need to establish that Peach actually has training of some sort in it.

I posted a pic of what it would look like here

, I think that's the closest thing we are going to get, I also think the fact that it says in the game it's a war fan and the fact she uses it in battle proves it's a fighting fan and I'll find out if she was training with it, but isn't the fact that she was quite succesful in beating enemies prove that she was somewhat efficent with it? I'm not sure but isn't that like nature v. nurture, when you are born naturally with it or you were taught it? IDK about science but you might.

@your location:

Spoiler

he swears he will return one day.
Far from the mountains and the seas,
back in her arms he swear he'll be.
Over the hills and far away

and it's also,
over the hills and far away
Teletubbies come to play.
I don't know which I like better so I left it open-ended .

 

[uhmuzing]

Why not? It's showing her using it, which means she has had it before, I don't see the problem.

Yeah, Id allow the MRPG Fan.

I agree, but we need to establish what it looks like.

Ah well... I see the reason.

If it is established, which I'm not saying it is yet, that it is indeed a war fan, how much closer is Peach to Zelda? If the arrows become nullified by the fan, Peach would then have the upper hand at a distance. But, on the other hand, Zelda definitely has the edge in melee combat.

@puzzle-solvers:

try and put those numbers you found to use, along with the other hints

What other hints? The numbers are the only hint I see.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I posted a pic of what it would look like here

, I think that's the closest thing we are going to get, I also think the fact that it says in the game it's a war fan and the fact she uses it in battle proves it's a fighting fan and I'll find out if she was training with it.

"War fan" is a specific weapon's name, a proper noun. It doesn't denote that it's a member of a specific class of weapons.

Peach also has a history of using improvised (see: totally ridiculous) weapons, so the fact that she uses it suggests just the opposite.

Didn't see the edit before. Now, I'll talk about the picture.


Ok, now let's look at the picture you gave us... it's not a fighting fan.

I'm sorry, but look at the way she grips it.

Compare it to your illustration of actual fighting fans.


Yes, she grips a grip-piece at the end that extends outwards from the bottom center of the fan instead of embedded inside the fan. This is extremely important because you'll notice with fighting fans, that grip is also the center where all the spokes meet, giving control over the center of weight of the fan itself and allowing the user to tighten the grip to prevent or allow it to open and close (a fundamental part of fighting with fighting fans).

The outside grip cements the fact that it is in fact, not a fighting fan. Even if we assume that it's got reinforced spokes (which doesn't look like it's the case) it lacks the leverage and the fine control required to do the techniques which make fighting fans so effective at doing what they do.


All I can say is, if it was meant to be a fighting fan, nobody did their research, if it's reinforced it's a basic blunt weapon at best.

and it's also,
over the hills and far away
Teletubbies come to play.
I don't know which I like better so I left it open-ended .

Lol, sweet. I prefer the nightwish version though.

 

[justaway12]

"War fan" is a specific weapon's name, a proper noun. It doesn't denote that it's a member of a specific class of weapons.

Peach also has a history of using improvised (see: totally ridiculous) weapons, so the fact that she uses it suggests just the opposite.

Didn't see the edit before. Now, I'll talk about the picture.


Yes, she grips a grip-piece at the end that extends outwards from the bottom center of the fan instead of embedded inside the fan. This is extremely important because you'll notice with fighting fans, that grip is also the center where all the spokes meet, giving control over the center of weight of the fan itself and allowing the user to tighten the grip to prevent or allow it to open and close (a fundamental part of fighting with fighting fans).

The outside grip cements the fact that it is in fact, not a fighting fan. Even if we assume that it's got reinforced spokes (which doesn't look like it's the case) it lacks the leverage and the fine control required to do the techniques which make fighting fans so effective at doing what they do.


All I can say is, if it was meant to be a fighting fan, nobody did their research, if it's reinforced it's a basic blunt weapon at best.

I don't lke big words

but anyway I don't think I understand what you mean but if it is what I think it is then her attack was intentional, her 2-hit combo makes her slam them war fan down infront of the opponent, snaps it up closed and attacks her enemies, I assume that gives her control and leverage, I think I'm sure that was far from the point, but big word make me stupid.

Anyway got it from a video vs. Culex, maybe I should just give the link and hope for something .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwURpto1yB8&feature @4:18

 

[JOE!]

What other hints? The numbers are the only hint I see.

It is a boss

samus has a history with it

 

[~Peachy~]

NO! No more draws!

@Peachy - Is it appropriate to include things from Mario's Sports series? I dunno, they're different from the "real" games in the series IMO. After all, the Sports series was created because of the popularity of Mario; if Peach COULDN'T jump obstacles or hit a home run or win the Tennis Championship, she would be a waste of space in that respective game. Is the stuff they do in those games really legitimate?

Access=/=ability to use.

I very much doubt that we could consider sports even remotely canon.


Improvised weapons like Golf balls are not gonna do much against a trained fighter, furthermore, they lack the killing power and/or accuracy of actual weapons. That's why they're not used as such. Also, her accuracy with such is defined by player input, unlike Zelda, who is shown to act independantly. Therefore, we have no way to judge Peach's accuracy.


Again, Zelda = Sheik, unless you have something to prove that the magic costume change is more then cosmetic and actually changes her physical abilities.


Real weaponry + real training > improvised sports equiptment.

♡I certainly do think the sports games are canon! Do you think Peach sits on her butt all day and bakes the occasional cake, waiting to be kidnapped? In all honesty, no one would ever want to do that. It's almost obviously implied that she must do something in her spare time. If they weren't canon, Princess Peach wouldn't even use the tennis racket or golf club in the Smash Series. If we never based everything off of everything not exactly in the series, then Peach has nothing. It's these "other" games that actually add to Peach's depth and character.

♡Peach is shown to have more accuracy and technical skill then a lot of the Mario cast. A ball hit by a Yoshi player will still end up being different then a ball hit by a person playing as Peach, even when both are remotely the same skill level.

♡A baseball, golf ball, and any weapon would still hurt plenty of things that aren't metal. If I threw a golf ball at your head and it hit, you would be at least dazed, if not bruised.

♡Just because a weapon is improvised does not mean it is any less powerful then a weapon actually made....well...to be a weapon. A kitchen knife is made for cooking, yet it is still capable of slicing your hand off, just like a sword! (Only an example)^__^

♡I'd also like to bring back the topic of Peach having a Go-kart. Peach has been in all of the Mario Kart games and I think that deserves a mention. A go-kart can be fast enough to dodge an arrow and cause more damage than a sword.

♡Also, remember that Zelda doesn't have perfect aim in this matchup. It takes quite a while, even for an experienced archer to AIM AND HIT a bulls eye on a target, let alone a speedy one. Zelda is no exception, she misses plenty of times when controlled by the AI during the Final Battle of the Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker when trying to freeze Ganondorf.^__^

 

[justaway12]

♡I'd also like to bring back the topic of Peach having a Go-kart. Peach has been in all of the Mario Kart games and I think that deserves a mention.

I think it did, it was only good for ramming, or something like that, it's a good thing you're here , because nobody else like Peach here .

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't lke big words

but anyway I don't think I understand what you mean but if it is what I think it is then her attack was intentional, her 2-hit combo makes her slam them war fan down infront of the opponent, snaps it up closed and attacks her enemies, I assume that gives her control and leverage, I think I'm sure that was far from the point, but big word make me stupid.

Anyway got it from a video vs. Culex, maybe I should just give the link and hope for something .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwURpto1yB8&feature

Sorry, I'll try to break it down a bit more.


Basically, the grip is at the end of the fan instead of inside (like the craft fans that I mentioned earlier), fighting fans can't work like that, they always have the grip inside the fan itself.

I explained the difference in more depth before, and I could explain basic fighting fan techniques in order to show why it doesn't work with that grip. Or I could show you.

Watch this video, it's basic demonstration of fighting fan.


If that's not enough, I could go extremely in-depth into why that specific grip makes a massive difference in how they can be used, if anyone has an specific objections (aka, why can't the war fan do [insert something that a fighting fan can do]?) then I'll explain.

This also suggests that the fan isn't reinforced, and is just another improvisational weapon.

 

[justaway12]

Okay, I get it now her grip was wrong and therefore it can't be a war fan as the grip should always be the same or else it wouldn't be as good

 

[uhmuzing]

I think it did, it was only good for ramming, or something like that, it's a good thing you're here , because nobody else like Peach here .

That's how I felt in the IVysaur/Yoshi fight. Man, the things I should say.

Okay, I get it now her grip was wrong and therefore it can't be a war fan as the grip should always be the same or else it wouldn't be as good

It seems to me that the War fan was her one big chance to even out the battle. Even if she has Skill and Speed from the Sports series, Peach needs somethign to give her an edge.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You ninja'd me peachy, you're mean. Lol, jk. I actually have been working on thatpost for a while, should've checked for new ones before submitting.

♡I certainly do think the sports games are canon! Do you think Peach sits on her butt all day and bakes the occasional cake, waiting to be kidnapped? In all honesty, no one would ever want to do that. It's almost obviously implied that she must do something in her spare time. If they weren't canon, Princess Peach wouldn't even use the tennis racket or golf club in the Smash Series. If we never based everything off of everything not exactly in the series, then Peach has nothing. It's these "other" games that actually add to Peach's depth and character.

The main issue is that they never show whether she has any actual personal ability with them, because it's all player-controlled.

Furthermore, games like that don't tend to establish any actual connection to the storyline, suggesting they take place in an alternate reality, unless you have something to suggest they ARE canon.

Smash isn't cannon.

♡Peach is shown to have more accuracy and technical skill then a lot of the Mario cast. A ball hit by a Yoshi player will still end up being different then a ball hit by a person playing as Peach, even when both are remotely the same skill level.

That she's inherently better then yoshi at it doesn't establish a baseline of skill.

♡A baseball, golf ball, and any weapon would still hurt plenty of things that aren't metal. If I threw a golf ball at your head and it hit, you would be at least dazed, if not bruised.

Yes, but nowhere near as much as if you were hit by an actual weapon intended to do as much damage as humanly possible.

COLOR="Pink"]♡Just because a weapon is improvised does not mean it is any less powerful then a weapon actually made....well...to be a weapon. A kitchen knife is made for cooking, yet it is still capable of slicing your hand off, just like a sword! (Only an example)^__^

Wrong, things are specialized for their function, while some may be great at another function as well, something being cross-used is generally inferior to something that's intended for that function.

Using your example, not really, very rarely are kitchen knives able to actually slice off your hand (I'm assuming you mean the entire hand).

Kitchen knives serve a variety of purposes, most kitchen knives lack the ability to for a couple reasons.

1. They lack the heft, bone is hard, to slice through it requires a considerable amount of force behind it, which means the knife needs to have weight.

2. They lack the edge, most kitchen knives are not built to slice through bone, and therefore have much duller edges then knives meant for fighting, because they're not meant to slice through bone. They often can't even hold the edges needed.

3. Those that ARE meant to slice through bone (pretty rare) are generally serrated, which makes them great for continuous slashing, but terrible at cutting through at the first attack, which is what matters.


Furthermore, for fighting they're not properly weighed, often don't have a proper grip, tend stand up to the kinds of wear and tear needed for fighting very poorly, the list goes on and on.


This pretty much establishes my point, improvised weapons can kill, BUT they're clumsier, more difficult to use, weaker, and generally far inferior to their counterparts that are actually made for the bussiness of killing.


I'll take a good Tusok any day over a kitchen knife.

♡I'd also like to bring back the topic of Peach having a Go-kart. Peach has been in all of the Mario Kart games and I think that deserves a mention. A go-kart can be fast enough to dodge an arrow and cause more damage than a sword.

It's fast enough, but doesn't have the manuervability to reliably dodge arrows (based on momentium, not saying it's bad at manuevering). Honestly, given enough time, a reasonable archer can hit a moving target. Furthermore, the closer you get, the easier it becomes. When you're almost on top of her, it's basically a death sentance.

♡Also, remember that Zelda doesn't have perfect aim in this matchup. It takes quite a while, even for an experienced archer to AIM AND HIT a bulls eye on a target, let alone a speedy one. Zelda is no exception, she misses plenty of times when controlled by the AI during the Final Battle of the Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker when trying to freeze Ganondorf.^__^

And in TP she successfully hits on horseback, which is amazingly hard.

And at range, she'll be doing this, of course at close range, all bets are off, since it becomes quite easy to hit at that range.

I think it did, it was only good for ramming, or something like that, it's a good thing you're here , because nobody else like Peach here .

Hey! I like Peach! She's awesome. I can't use her in Brawl though, just melee.

I also personally prefered Rayquaza and Yoshi in previous match-ups that I argued, but still argued that they lost.

Okay, I get it now her grip was wrong and therefore it can't be a war fan as the grip should always be the same or else it wouldn't be as good

Yes, exactly.

Note that I'm not saying that it's not a "War Fan", that's it's name. It's just not a "fighting fan", which means it's not an effective weapon against swords, spears, arrows etc.

It seems to me that the War fan was her one big chance to even out the battle. Even if she has Skill and Speed from the Sports series, Peach needs somethign to give her an edge.

Yea, agreed. It's also how I felt arguing the Rayquaza battle (I'm a MAJOR fan of Rayquaza, he just transfers poorly to real life).


But if she could prove that it was fighting fan, and she was skilled in it's use, the battle would become a lot more even.

 

[JOE!]

So, you guys think there is any more to discuss?

 

[uhmuzing]

Possibly, but Zelda has this either way IMO.

 

[~Peachy~]

I think it did, it was only good for ramming, or something like that, it's a good thing you're here , because nobody else like Peach here .

♡It seems the gaming community likes the silent type more than the cute type. I'm pretty much used to it. ^__^

♡The usual fanboyism(with exceptions ) goes from most liked to least liked: Zero Suit Samus>Zelda>Peach.

♡Sadly, the higher up the scale, the less likely that person would even want to date the fanboy. ^__^;

♡I'm sorry about sneaking up on you Mr. Adumbrodeus, I am barely noticed for some reason...^__^;

The main issue is that they never show whether she has any actual personal ability with them, because it's all player-controlled. ♡

♡Actually, there is an option where you can make the characters controlled by the AI, of course, then we would have to see which computers lose to Peach. Of course, this is basically the same situation as in the Sash series, it's harder to find which characters are better than one another. But that still doesn't change the fact that the AI can control Peach just as the AI can control Zelda.

Furthermore, games like that don't tend to establish any actual connection to the storyline, suggesting they take place in an alternate reality, unless you have something to suggest they ARE canon.

Smash isn't cannon.

♡Just because a game isn't canon (not saying those games aren't), does not mean it makes up a completely different person out of the wazoo and is supposedly the same character. It does not work that way, they are actually based on something that's acceptable all-around for that character. And since we're talking about BRAWLERS, then we consider all of their options (that go by the rules), and try to determine what is legal and what is not legal in this debate. Princess Peach uses sports items in BRAWL, so that must mean the sports games are canon, or at least acceptable to be used.

That she's inherently better then yoshi at it doesn't establish a baseline of skill.

♡That was an example.... I'm not even sure of her skill level compared to Yoshi.^__^;

♡Anywho, the usual "base" character is Mario, all other characters have varying stats and are usually compared to Mario's characteristics and abilities. If Zelda can beat up Mario....then maybe this matchup is done for. But I don't see that happening.

Yes, but nowhere near as much as if you were hit by an actual weapon intended to do as much damage as humanly possible.

♡That wasn't the point, if you get hit by something, you can be dazed, and during that time frame, you can be hit by something that does even more damage. At the very least, it buys time.

Wrong, things are specialized for their function, while some may be great at another function as well, something being cross-used is generally inferior to something that's intended for that function.

Using your example, not really, very rarely are kitchen knives able to actually slice off your hand (I'm assuming you mean the entire hand).

Kitchen knives serve a variety of purposes, most kitchen knives lack the ability to for a couple reasons.

1. They lack the heft, bone is hard, to slice through it requires a considerable amount of force behind it, which means the knife needs to have weight.

2. They lack the edge, most kitchen knives are not built to slice through bone, and therefore have much duller edges then knives meant for fighting, because they're not meant to slice through bone. They often can't even hold the edges needed.

3. Those that ARE meant to slice through bone (pretty rare) are generally serrated, which makes them great for continuous slashing, but terrible at cutting through at the first attack, which is what matters.


Furthermore, for fighting they're not properly weighed, often don't have a proper grip, tend stand up to the kinds of wear and tear needed for fighting very poorly, the list goes on and on.


This pretty much establishes my point, improvised weapons can kill, BUT they're clumsier, more difficult to use, weaker, and generally far inferior to their counterparts that are actually made for the bussiness of killing.


I'll take a good Tusok any day over a kitchen knife.

♡Of dear Mr. Adumbrodeus, you seem to be missing a lot of my points.

♡The lack of force is a replaced with strategy, and with Peach, we know that her physical prowess isn't that splendid. Zelda's isn't either btw. But that is made up with strategy. A kitchen knife and a sword will still be a fatal would if it has punctured something vital.

It's fast enough, but doesn't have the manuervability to reliably dodge arrows (based on momentium, not saying it's bad at manuevering). Honestly, given enough time, a reasonable archer can hit a moving target. Furthermore, the closer you get, the easier it becomes. When you're almost on top of her, it's basically a death sentance.

♡A vehicle will still move for a certain amount of time, if the breaks are not used. Assuming Peach is going at full speed, she may die, but there is no way Zelda will be able to dodge the go-cart.... resulting in death..(most likely)The fact that she is in a dress even makes this seem less probable. Also, the key word you mentioned was time. It takes quite a bit of time to aim, and even more time to recover just before a go-kart can hit you.

And in TP she successfully hits on horseback, which is amazingly hard.

And at range, she'll be doing this, of course at close range, all bets are off, since it becomes quite easy to hit at that range.

♡The accuracy rate at which she hits is entirely dependent on the player, she can miss and her accuracy is far from perfect.

♡I don't think Zelda would even take the chance at close range, remember, she is more of a calculating woman then a reckless one. It's quite obvious that she would pull out a weapon that is more suitable, unless there is a perfectly good reason. Peach is fast with good aim, and even when in range, also has options to attack Zelda.


♡Zelda seems a tad bit too overrated and Peach is too underrated. The discussion seems skewed. ^__^;

♡At the very least, it's a draw. I am still towards Peach winning though.

 

[Sieguest]

I gotta go with Peach...for the fact that if the time came that Peach got close to Zelda Peach could just pull out at least one of the bludgeoning tools she's bound to be carrying! I skimmed the arguments and it just seems like Zelda's being raised on a pedastal...IMO

I basically see Zelda as only having range with that bow...but that's all I see...
with no magic, what can Zelda do when Peach gets close...Peach has way more "Slap of Rejection" experience than Zelda...
Peach is also that woman that does the unexpected when the time comes *cough* super princess peach *cough*

Unless Zelda has some unheard of fighting skills up close that I haven't heard of..then Peach has it made up close...if she gets close...

@Peachy- Where in the world will Peach pull a go cart from? If Peach does pull a go-cart hit and run scene then couldn't Zelda just shoot the cart and boom!
And regarding Peach's accuracy- we all know Peach stunk at the Archery and Skeet event in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games! and Mario is just worse...once Peach beats Waluigi...then she'll be pro...

 

[uhmuzing]

Zelda murders Peach close up because she has a sword, and an epic sword at that. Peach has a bat...

This battle is only possibly favoring Peach from a distance and that all depends on a number of things that I don't think are really going for peach right now (read the page before this).

EDIT: To be fair, I'm not done evaluating Peachy's post up there.

 

[adumbrodeus]

♡Actually, there is an option where you can make the characters controlled by the AI, of course, then we would have to see which computers lose to Peach. Of course, this is basically the same situation as in the Sash series, it's harder to find which characters are better than one another. But that still doesn't change the fact that the AI can control Peach just as the AI can control Zelda.

But the AI is functionally just a replacement for a human player, it's not "peach herself" canonically speaking.

♡Just because a game isn't canon (not saying those games aren't), does not mean it makes up a completely different person out of the wazoo and is supposedly the same character. It does not work that way, they are actually based on something that's acceptable all-around for that character. And since we're talking about BRAWLERS, then we consider all of their options (that go by the rules), and try to determine what is legal and what is not legal in this debate. Princess Peach uses sports items in BRAWL, so that must mean the sports games are canon, or at least acceptable to be used.

The point is that non-canon sources, while they may follow the general character design, have a tendancy to make things up, and therefore aren't really acceptable.

♡That was an example.... I'm not even sure of her skill level compared to Yoshi.^__^;

♡Anywho, the usual "base" character is Mario, all other characters have varying stats and are usually compared to Mario's characteristics and abilities. If Zelda can beat up Mario....then maybe this matchup is done for. But I don't see that happening.

The point is, it doesn't really illustrate anything.

♡That wasn't the point, if you get hit by something, you can be dazed, and during that time frame, you can be hit by something that does even more damage. At the very least, it buys time.

Yes, it does, if it hits and hits the proper location. But again, it's nowhere near as efficent at doing so as a specialized weapon.

♡Of dear Mr. Adumbrodeus, you seem to be missing a lot of my points.

♡The lack of force is a replaced with strategy, and with Peach, we know that her physical prowess isn't that splendid. Zelda's isn't either btw. But that is made up with strategy. A kitchen knife and a sword will still be a fatal would if it has punctured something vital.

No, that was a direct response. You're trying to say that improvised weapons are effective and used an example. I'm disproving that example, and using it to illustrate that there's a very signifigant gap between improvised weapons and real ones.


While a kitchen knife may be able to kill if it punctures the right place, it's gonna be a lot more difficult for it to block and attack (weighed wrong), survive (not made to strike against metal so it will dull and deform easily), and actually puncture (not meant to be stabbed into human flesh, so you'll need a much more direct blow then with a sword meant for stabbing).


I'm sorry, but to any expirienced fighter, the pure inferiority of improvised weapons is obvious for the reasons stated and many more. Sure they're useful in a pinch, but against somebody of equal or better skill using real weapons, you're skilled.


Actually, Zelda is quite physically fit, in TP she clearly shows the ability to draw a rather large compound bow. As we talked about with Young Link, that requires a lot of strength.

Furthermore, she is also Tetra and Sheik, both of which displayed a great deal of physical powess.

Regardless, you don't need to be particularly strong to be proficent in weapons, what you need is training. It's mostly technical ability that sets people apart.



As for strategy, again, Genius level intelligence, Zelda wins in the strategy department.

♡A vehicle will still move for a certain amount of time, if the breaks are not used. Assuming Peach is going at full speed, she may die, but there is no way Zelda will be able to dodge the go-cart.... resulting in death..(most likely)The fact that she is in a dress even makes this seem less probable. Also, the key word you mentioned was time. It takes quite a bit of time to aim, and even more time to recover just before a go-kart can hit you.

Go carts are small and easy to dodge, all it takes is a jump to the side.

At that range, aiming proficently takes almost no time. It's the long distance trick shots that take a while to aim (you know, the ones that Zelda can take while peach is approaching her from afar?).

♡The accuracy rate at which she hits is entirely dependent on the player, she can miss and her accuracy is far from perfect.

But the player doesn't control her, sure she CAN miss, but this is horseback shooting, unless you're specifically trained for years in the specific style, being able to hit at all is amazing.

♡I don't think Zelda would even take the chance at close range, remember, she is more of a calculating woman then a reckless one. It's quite obvious that she would pull out a weapon that is more suitable, unless there is a perfectly good reason. Peach is fast with good aim, and even when in range, also has options to attack Zelda.

You're right, 90% of the time Zelda would take Peach out well before she gets in her about 30 meter effective psych bomb range, she has plenty of time to aim after all, and 100 feet is an easy shot (just over psych bomb range). For the few times peach gets through, Zelda, being a calculating woman, will close to melee as quickly as possible.

♡Zelda seems a tad bit too overrated and Peach is too underrated. The discussion seems skewed. ^__^;

It's because Zelda is an actual trained fighter, whereas Peach has no formal training. Furthermore, Zelda has access to far more efficent weapons, Peach's are improvised.

♡At the very least, it's a draw. I am still towards Peach winning though.

LOL

Everything that you've argued here, if allowed, suggests that peach has halfway reasonable options against Zelda. The closest to an actual point of superiority is the Go Kart, and you're not seriously suggesting that it's enough to give a true advantage to peach, right?

I gotta go with Peach...for the fact that if the time came that Peach got close to Zelda Peach could just pull out at least one of the bludgeoning tools she's bound to be carrying! I skimmed the arguments and it just seems like Zelda's being raised on a pedastal...IMO

I basically see Zelda as only having range with that bow...but that's all I see...
with no magic, what can Zelda do when Peach gets close...Peach has way more "Slap of Rejection" experience than Zelda...
Peach is also that woman that does the unexpected when the time comes *cough* super princess peach *cough*

Unless Zelda has some unheard of fighting skills up close that I haven't heard of..then Peach has it made up close...if she gets close...

Skim better, Zelda has both knife and sword proficency. I established this rather early in the argument.

Furthermore, arrow proficency is a major advantage, it means that most fights will end before peach can even get into range to beat at Zelda.



As has been established MANY TIMES BEFORE (both here and IRL) actual weapons and extensive training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> informal weapons with no true training.


edit:

Zelda murders Peach close up because she has a sword, and an epic sword at that. Peach has a bat...

This battle is only possibly favoring Peach from a distance and that all depends on a number of things that I don't think are really going for peach right now (read the page before this).

Well, it's more the training that really does her in, the fact it's with good weapons is a nice bonus however.


And well, it's not a distance, it's that range from 98-12 feet, but there it's barely favoring, and only while Peach has enough bombs to maintain it.

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

♡It seems the gaming community likes the silent type more than the cute type. I'm pretty much used to it. ^__^

♡The usual fanboyism(with exceptions ) goes from most liked to least liked: Zero Suit Samus>Zelda>Peach.

♡Sadly, the higher up the scale, the less likely that person would even want to date the fanboy. ^__^;

I would totally date Peach. Zamus and Zelda are both beautiful, but Zamus seems kinda b****y and Zelda wouldn't be all that interesting to talk to. No joke.

 

[†Slader7†]

lol this sounds like a bloody debate xD
Weapons aside, who do you think would win in hand to hand combat? Thats what I'm wondering.

lol@AGuyNamedRaf, this is the "deadliest brawler" thread, not "whos hotter/who would I date" thread

 

[JOE!]

I would date Falcon, no homo....

(hes allready won a fight )

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

lol this sounds like a bloody debate xD
Weapons aside, who do you think would win in hand to hand combat? Thats what I'm wondering.

lol@AGuyNamedRaf, this is the "deadliest brawler" thread, not "whos hotter/who would I date" thread

I know, I was kidding. Anyway, I think that they would be evenly matched with a slight advantage to Peach. Most of, if not all, Zelda's moves are enhanced by magic in Melee and Brawl. If you take that away, most of her moves would be almost useless. Whereas, Peach has some good hand to hand/bum combat skill that hits pretty hard.

 

[Sieguest]

Skim better, Zelda has both knife and sword proficency. I established this rather early in the argument.

Furthermore, arrow proficency is a major advantage, it means that most fights will end before peach can even get into range to beat at Zelda.



As has been established MANY TIMES BEFORE (both here and IRL) actual weapons and extensive training >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> informal weapons with no true training.

DADGUMMIT!!- This is what reading at late hours will get you...now I have to reread...
murph...too tired to work my brain so hard now...
Well- I'm pulling Peach Anyway-
even with the actual weapons to improvised weapons argument...-you can't tell me that a golf club to the head isn't going to make someone do a double take..and a driver at that...
True Zelda has a bow, but we can't determine the WHOLE matchup there can we...this is implying that they start from a distance...what if they start closer together...then what?

Yes Zelda has sword- and she has sword experience- but it's not like Peach hasn't had her share of swordplay (individual epee- Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games) So maybe Peach has that rapier stowed somewhere, but I'll guess that Peach won't be allowed to take that with her...now will she?

Even so- it's not like just because Peach is using an improvised weapon that she's not as deadly- take a plethora of domestic homicide cases that involved blunt force trauma- vases, that lamp and other things that killed a person even though a vase or a lamp isn't exactly a "killing" weapon...
Cops consider someone with a bat "armed and dangerous" in certain instances...now we're sticking a golf club...or a bat...or something else in the hands of Peach...Peach could easily make another domestic violence case... (unless Peach gets that Rapier...then she'll be in business...kinda...)

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Cops consider someone with a bat "armed and dangerous" in certain instances...now we're sticking a golf club...or a bat...or something else in the hands of Peach...

...who doesn't have formal combat training, other than swinging wildly at her target. Not very dangerous to a princess with formal training.

Cops are trained for this very reason.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Sieguest]

...who doesn't have formal combat training, other than swinging wildly at her target. Not very dangerous to a princess with formal training.

Cops are trained for this very reason.

Smooth Criminal

You underestimate how dangerous that crazy girl "swinging around a bat" can be... it doesn't have to be wildly...

you ever hear of the "Cold Clock" Serial Killer...
he was able to kill three armed policemen with metal pole before he was taken down...

In a book..."Serial Killers"

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You underestimate how dangerous that crazy girl "swinging around a bat" can be... it doesn't have to be wildly...

you ever hear of the "Cold Clock" Serial Killer...
he was able to kill three armed policemen with metal pole before he was taken down...

The element of surprise is amazing, which I'm assuming is why that was even possible.

But this scenario isn't about surprise. Two combatants, stationed apart from each other by just yards. And before you yammer on about "concealed weapons," let me ask you this: Where is Peach going to conceal them?

And how is she going to readily GET to them, for that matter? 'Cause this scenario assumes she doesn't have Hammerspace (which is the ability to magically pull **** from the air; play BESM!). What, is she going to have a wiggy harness under her skirt that conceals her baseball bat, golf club, and frying pan?

It's easy to see where Zelda would conceal or hold her weapons: In a simple sheath and/or harness.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Sieguest]

The element of surprise is amazing, which I'm assuming is why that was even possible.

But this scenario isn't about surprise. Two combatants, stationed apart from each other by just yards. And before you yammer on about "concealed weapons," let me ask you this: Where is Peach going to conceal them?

And how is she going to readily GET to them, for that matter? 'Cause this scenario assumes she doesn't have Hammerspace (which is the ability to magically pull **** from the air; play BESM!). What, is she going to have a wiggy harness under her skirt that conceals her baseball bat, golf club, and frying pan?

It's easy to see where Zelda would conceal or hold her weapons: In a simple sheath and/or harness.

Smooth Criminal

Golf Bag...lol...
but seriously...why can't Peach use a rapier...she's able to use all these other...out of the box items...and she's used a rapier before...