Official Talk is Cheap - Ryu Match Up Thread

[pichuthedk]

Mmm well I have not faced alot of competent ryus nor many ryus in bracket so I have no idea how this mu goes now especially with the shield stun changes.

He has an easier time with being an on stage bully since I am assuming his hard ftilt now gives the player an additional feedback concussion when their shield is broke lol.

Things I did notice about the Mu is that zss has an easier time dealing with your down b areial fients/baits with up smash and up b since they reach quite far and have the range.

Ryu feels like he has a lot more stage presence since he has so many heavy hits that kinda feel like they get thrown out faster then those heavies like bowser and DK. Not to mention the varying types of hadokens he has.

 

[RoninX1819]

so we all agree its even?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mmm well I have not faced alot of competent ryus nor many ryus in bracket so I have no idea how this mu goes now especially with the shield stun changes.

He has an easier time with being an on stage bully since I am assuming his hard ftilt now gives the player an additional feedback concussion when their shield is broke lol.

Things I did notice about the Mu is that zss has an easier time dealing with your down b areial fients/baits with up smash and up b since they reach quite far and have the range.

Ryu feels like he has a lot more stage presence since he has so many heavy hits that kinda feel like they get thrown out faster then those heavies like bowser and DK. Not to mention the varying types of hadokens he has.

TORONTO??!?!!?

Lets go son.

LES GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[Scieric]

Ryu is NOT Melee Falco. Thats an insult.

Melee Falco earned NOTHING and gained MONSTROUS reward.

Ryu is mostly counter play and knowing exactly what to do.

Falco was abusing 2 or 3 amazingly broken options to completely dominate neutral with virtually no risk to himself.

UGH

I didn't mean as a character. I meant his place in the meta. Yes, Ryu is tons harder and riskier, but in terms of tier placement and matchup spread, it's similar to Melee Falco. That is all I was trying to say. You took a message that wasn't there out of what I was saying.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Even in terms of match-ups i disagree. Falco ****s on alot of chars for free. He def doesnt have mostly even match-ups. Falco was def a cut above almost everyone in the game. IMO perfect Falco is #1 easily but the strongest players don't want to play him optimally.

 

[pichuthedk]

TORONTO??!?!!?

Lets go son.

LES GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Yeah bro I am Ryoko the zss main I moved to ajax so it's been hard reaching toronto tourneys but I am moving to pickering now this month...maybe easier time now?

Hopefully the money johns stop soon xD

Edit : yes the Mu is even zss can body Ryu if she gets him in the air as per the usual with proper spacing and not just getting thirsty with the Yolo boost kicks.

But when on the ground Ryu can bully her and get stage control while reacting to read grab attempts and punishing.

Ryu has both a ground and air combo game iirc which is scary AF.

 

[Fyore]

It's not possible. Uairs with ZSS are true combos. If it's true, there's no 1 frame window to use either move. The up b links to together. We rely on good mixup DI for this one

Then I've obviously never played a good ZSS, my matchup knowledge here won't be worth much lol.

 

[Peahnuts]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere but Trela did a pretty lengthy video on his match vs Nairo.

Personally I think Ryu loses, but not by much. 55-45 most likely. Her neutral is obvious but effective, just stay aware of nair and grab. If you're expecting it, you can spotdodge grab almost on reaction and she can't move for another 69 frames after the grab is out so make sure you optimize your punish. If for some reason ZSS whiffs a pivot grab, it's 80 frames before she can move again. The MU skews more in her favour on halberd and dreamland IMO. Also they'll likely be looking for a grab the most around 35-45% because that's when the dthrow>uair>uair>upb connects on Ryu.

Other things to look out for are her nair's near the edge around 50%% because depending on DI it'll link into a flip kick spike.

I'm not sure how keen I'd be to challenge ZSS offstage as Ryu but I've been killed a lot by Ryu's side b lol. Although if you know ZSS has used her down b and hasn't touched the ground yet, it might be worth it to edgeguard her because she'll be relying on her tether which has no invincibility or upb which doesn't go very far.

 

[Scieric]

Even in terms of match-ups i disagree. Falco ****s on alot of chars for free. He def doesnt have mostly even match-ups. Falco was def a cut above almost everyone in the game. IMO perfect Falco is #1 easily but the strongest players don't want to play him optimally.

Well, I may be overestimating a bit but let's consider what a perfect Ryu can do and put that into comparison with the rest of the cast.

Yeah bro I am Ryoko the zss main I moved to ajax so it's been hard reaching toronto tourneys but I am moving to pickering now this month...maybe easier time now?

Hopefully the money johns stop soon xD

Edit : yes the Mu is even zss can body Ryu if she gets him in the air as per the usual with proper spacing and not just getting thirsty with the Yolo boost kicks.

But when on the ground Ryu can bully her and get stage control while reacting to read grab attempts and punishing.

Ryu has both a ground and air combo game iirc which is scary AF.

TORONTO??!?!!?

Lets go son.

LES GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[WD40]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere but Trela did a pretty lengthy video on his match vs Nairo.

Personally I think Ryu loses, but not by much. 55-45 most likely. Her neutral is obvious but effective, just stay aware of nair and grab. If you're expecting it, you can spotdodge grab almost on reaction and she can't move for another 69 frames after the grab is out so make sure you optimize your punish. If for some reason ZSS whiffs a pivot grab, it's 80 frames before she can move again. The MU skews more in her favour on halberd and dreamland IMO. Also they'll likely be looking for a grab the most around 35-45% because that's when the dthrow>uair>uair>upb connects on Ryu.

Other things to look out for are her nair's near the edge around 50%% because depending on DI it'll link into a flip kick spike.

I'm not sure how keen I'd be to challenge ZSS offstage as Ryu but I've been killed a lot by Ryu's side b lol. Although if you know ZSS has used her down b and hasn't touched the ground yet, it might be worth it to edgeguard her because she'll be relying on her tether which has no invincibility or upb which doesn't go very far.

Thanks for the link to the video, I'll definitely be interested to check it out and see what Trela has to say.

Personally, I feel this MU is pretty damn even and is more than likely going to come down to individual player skill and the ability to adapt. If ZSS misses grabs against anyone, its a bad day. If she misses them against Ryu, it can easily mean the loss of a stock. Shielding, patience, baiting, and not missing punish opportunities are the keys to this matchup.

 

[WD40]

EDIT: Double posted

 

[Scieric]

OK so,... where exactly do we go from here?

 

[HoodedAltair]

OK so,... where exactly do we go from here?

I can make the long post soon. Changes can be made and it'll be official. Input from more ZSS mains would be helpful but no one came from their thread yet

 

[Scieric]

I mean, we've pretty much all come to a consensus that it's even, so if the ZSS mains would hurry and say they agree then we could move on to the next matchup.

 

[HoodedAltair]

I mean, we've pretty much all come to a consensus that it's even, so if the ZSS mains would hurry and say they agree then we could move on to the next matchup.

2 sides to a story man

 

[pichuthedk]

Well a couple have come and said it's even already but I guess getting players like NickRiddle Dakpo DeLux and nairo would help more..

 

[HoodedAltair]

Well a couple have come and said it's even already but I guess getting players like NickRiddle Dakpo DeLux and nairo would help more..

Eh we'll leave it at even. I'll try to make a write up today or tomorrow.

NEXT MATCHUP WILL BE PIKACHU

I'll give my thoughts on it later as well. He is looking to be our worst MU with lots of multihit aerials, contorting hard to hit hurtboxes, quick attack which evades cornering and offers a constant threat of shielding, and amazing edge guarding. Go!

 

[Scieric]

Ooh. Pika... this is a matchup that I'll typically stick to Shulk for. Regardless, I'd like to see if there is some way to counterplay Pika. Otherwise... tsk tsk tsk.

 

[RoninX1819]

So something to note about this mu. Yes it it hard. But we can do it. The first rule of this mu is for the love of god don't chase down that rat you have to make him come to you and focus on stage control. Are nair is a great tool to use on quick attack and so is fair. Both these options can not only stuff it out it can lead to some mean punishes. As for pickas fair we have heavy uptilt,heavy jab, and fair and bair. With a few good punishes pika dies at 60. But that isn't that easy pikas have a habit to camp us out and have good tools to do that with so are ootion only option in this is to get the percent lead and not get impassiont. Its a very long and boring mu if they play this way, which is why you never want to give them FD,duck hunt or even town and city. They have to commit way more to there kill options then we do. Tatsu to the stage into a stage spike does work. We do lose of stage but that is an option we do have. I firmly stand on that this is in pikas favor due to his mobility to camp and gimp. But we win everything else.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar sub-forum is discussing the Ryu matchup. Any input is appreciated.

http://smashboards.com/threads/piklopedia-the-olimar-matchup-thread-ryu-yoshi.421920/

 

[G. Stache]

Hey, the Luigi boards are discussing the Ryu MU right now, and any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Just click the link below to visits E. Gadd's Lab!

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-12#post-20451320

 

[DavemanCozy]

Discuss Fox vs Ryu:
http://smashboards.com/threads/all-...ad-ryu-roy-lucas.393061/page-11#post-20471958

vs

 

[Hanku Hirru]

I haven't faced many competent Pikachu's for me to give an in-depth analysis, but I can offer my two cents on the few good players I've faced and what worked.

Arguably, this is Ryu's hardest match up. Considering Pikachu's speed and approach options, defensive play is key here as Ryu cannot afford to go HAM ape **** and eat buckets of damage. Luckily, Ryu can KO Pika far easier than Pika can KO Ryu, but it's being able to land a hit on Pikachu and rack up damage that mitigates that advantage.

Jab, D-tilt (I've found this tilt to be his most viable in this match), Fair, and Nair are good tools. Basically, Pikachu is just too damn quick to be chasing around the stage, so it's up to him to approach and for Ryu to punish accordingly.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

If my word holds any weight, Trela and I believe Ryu vs Pika isn't that bad. It might be his worst MU, sure, but it's not terrible.

 

[WD40]

If my word holds any weight, Trela and I believe Ryu vs Pika isn't that bad. It might be his worst MU, sure, but it's not terrible.

Nice job at MVG, would have liked to see you play Nick Riddle in the finals.

I'm starting to think the pikachu matchup is not as horrible as I initially thought as well. Just need a bit more patience against and less use of those moves that go over pikas head. Pikachus low weight really saves us. Do you think Sonic could possibly be a worse matchup than Pikachu?

 

[Scieric]

If I go Ryu at all against Pika (why would I? I've got a Shulk) I find that HDTilt -> TTatsu links incredibly easily, and puts Pika in a really bad spot for getting out of because he can't rely on QA to get him back into a good spot, and we have good position, ready to dish out a ****ton of damage with NAir combos and FAir.

I think DTilt will be more valuable than UTilt honestly, with it's ability to link into HDTilt and as it can both still link to SRK but also has more horizontal range and Pika can't avoid it as easily just because of his small stature. And you can still walk forward with DTilt, it's just that when you hit one, you'll probably wanna stay still.

 

[ghWyPakDzVvPncx76h2J]

Let's see, what input do I have for the Pikachu matchup. Well it's certainly an annoying matchup, but unlike many other characters that struggle against pikachu Ryu in-fact has the important tools to deal with Pikachu's. This matchup is really just about stage control. That's why stages like Duck Hunt or Town and City would be bad to choose because Ryu can't control platforms all the way that high where Pikachu can camp him out. This match up comes down intensely to stuff like being observant of your opponent's approaches because if Pikachu makes one single mistake at like the 60% range then it's almost a kill. Pikachu is going to have a hard time approaching if you play a strong ground game and keep him always in lock down. Also I would absolutely not recommend throwing any shakanetsu hadouken's against pikachu. They barely connect, you're better off just throwing off normal hadouken's instead. Also Focus Attack mix ups are definitely out of question, he will just **** on you for throwing those out in the air. If anything Ryu's options are somewhat butchered, but he still has a large moveset so he's no entirely gimped. But you also have to think from the Pikachu's perspective in this matchup because if anything the game pace is almost entirely controlled by the pikachu player, and Ryu should never under any circumstances try to chase him down. The hardest part of this matchup is controlling the air supremacy and this matchup is almost entirely going to be dictated by who can play a more efficient ground game. As long as you are somewhat observant you will manage to find some small openings to pull off stuff like shoryukens or your strong combo attacks, but the best way to play this matchup is to just play the neutral and toss out safe attacks. The moment the matchup becomes in Ryu's favor is when Pikachu will easily find ways to escape (He's hard to combo!). I'd say this matchup is 53-47 being slightly in pikachu's favor, but Ryu, across his history of playing games, has dealt with every cheap annoying character imagine-able so it's absolutely do-able and not the end of the world. Out of all the matchups I'd put this matchup as his second worst, personally I believe ZSS to be his worst due to ZSS's flat out great spacing options that bypass Ryu's footsie game, but if you want to (since it seems like you haven't written up the summary for ZSS) I could give my take on the matchup.

 

[RoninX1819]

I agree with you on some points but theres a lot of stuff your saying thats waaaaay off. for one slow shaku and fast shaku hover are great ways of stuffing out pikas air approaches when he jumps and is a great bait tool. if you do slow shaku at about medium distance it covers he air options so he will either wait it out or go in for a dash attack or grab which leaves us in a position to punish his approach with all the stuff we have. as for the zss mu is very even and for reasons we have already covered

 

[RoninX1819]

oh and one more thing about the pika mu. focus is still a tool that can be used but not abused like we can in other mus. its still a good bait for fsmash and usmash iv one many sets against pikas with it expectually if there really fishing for the kill.

 

[Megamang]

For some pika input, you probably want to fight for center stage as our main killing tool is gimping till really high percents. Then, dash attack is our kill move (whoever suggested we approach with DA... no) around 135 depending on rage.

Any commitment at mid range will get you quick attacked, so zoning probably wont work. But your reward is crazy high compared to QA+ followup, so learn to intercept it.


Dtilt is better than utilt in this mu, good pikas are gonna sdi out of utilt before much comboing takes place.

 

[Waymas]

Hey guys, the Wario boards are discussing the Ryu MU , so I came here to invite you guys to it: http://smashboards.com/threads/wah-...etaknight-and-ryu.391846/page-7#post-20433486



Any advice will help us a ton!

 

[RoninX1819]

ryu has great ways of stuffing out QA is what im saying. nair,fair and shaku hover work and we can combo off of those options. what we are trying to do in this mu is to apply enough safe pressure to make pika do something and then counter that option and your reaction time needs to be on point as much as being calm and focused in the mu.

 

[Hanku Hirru]

So, after getting so more playtime as Ryu against some competent Pikachu's, I can walk away saying that Fair is one of Ryu's best tools in this match. It's such a good option for stuffing aerial approaches.

 

[MisterDom]

Hello all Ryu mains!! The Jigglypuff boards have recently been discussing the matchup of Jigglypuff vs. Ryu, and would gladly like your support for a more detailed and accurate result!!

Certain times where you think Ryu or Jigglypuff exceeds or has an advantage, or disadvantage, or just the whole matchup as a whole, is what we would like to see!! Come discuss at the link below!!

http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...glypuff-matchup-thread-discussing-ryu.384478/

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Scieric]

This thread is so dead right now we are the deadest of the dead we are so dead that I'm making a post about how dead we are. How dead are we? Dead.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

I just got Ryu on xmas day thanks to holiday money from grandad. anyway I have played him a little bit and I have heard Ness can be a nightmare for Ryu due to pkt 1 ****ing with his spacing

 

[KntKumar]

This is my synopsis of the shiek MU. Feel free to quote me or add at your discretion. This is also close to general format that will be put in the OP once a thorough amount of data is collected....the conversation will also be archived

Summary:
Ryu's combo and punish game hurts Sheik a lot more than Sheik's hurts you due to higher damage output and more dangerous finishers, however the real danger for Ryu is getting carried offstage since it can lead to gimps which Sheik excels at. DI away from her fair strings and always watch out for Bouncing Fish, Needles and stage spikes when offstage, and always mix up your recovery. Punish Sheik's up b ledgesnap vulnerability with tatsumaki to ledge whenever possible. Sheik's long range game is better due to her needles and her approaches are safer due to her great range and low lag. Her needles even go under haduken making it pretty useless on stage unless you try to trade it. Ryu has an amazing punish game though so capitalizing on any mistake on Shiek's part is vital. Ryu is much slower than Shiek so it can be hard closing space and finding spots to punish. However Sheik's main weakness is her lack of kill power which Ryu excels at while also being much heavier than Sheik, so this evens it out quite a lot. The matchup is considered to be a disadvantage for Ryu, but not unwinnable by any means.

What about the Mario and fox matchup because those are the characters I struggle against most when I play Ryu. And Little Mac. Plz reply

 

[KntKumar]

In my opinion I think Ryu vs ZSS matchup favours ryu cause he can kill early, high damage output combos. Ryu is quite heavy so he will live longer.

 

[Neutricity]

Does anyone have intel on Ryu vs Rosalina?

 

[TurboLink]

Shouldn't the OP have been updated a long time ago? @HoodedAltair