Tafokints and Omni Discuss Tensions Between the Melee and Smash 4 Community

With ESAM's inclusion for voting in the Smash Summit 2, tensions have been rising between the Melee and Smash 4 community. While ESAM has made his case to get into Smash Summit 2 here, the issues with the community are still rising. Including recent events where commentators better known for one game or the other have come under fire, it is creating a serious issue. Two respected members of the Smash community, Tafokints and Omni, have both provided their opinions on this matter. We have presented both of these perspectives side by side for viewing and discussion. Give them a watch!

Omni: The Melee Community Rant | Tafo Talks: Are We Alienating Ourselves?

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Both of these community members have very different styles of discussion but share somewhat similar thoughts. What do you, the readers, think? How should the community address these feelings going forward? Start a civil discussion in the comments below and stay tuned to Smashboards for information on future community issues and debates.

 

I guess any criticism is considered hate now.

 

I s2g if the Melee community tries to drive the Smash 4 scene into the ground to stroke it's own ego, I'm switching over to Guilty Gear full-time.

 

I seriously don't understand how people can fight and argue so much about 2 DIFFERENT Smash games. I personally like Smash 4 more, but I still think Melee is fantastic. I like Samsung a lot more than iPhone, but I don't go around and sh*t on Apple users. I like DOTA a lot more than LoL, but I don't go around and bash people who think the opposite.

Not sure why respect and having an open mind is so hard to learn.




(Btw, that edited picture of Melee's crew facing against some of Smash 4's crew looks pretty darn awesome)

 

Jeez. I don't get the conflict between Melee and Smash 4 players. It's petty, honestly.

Guys, chill. I am definitely a Smash 4 player, but I love to watch Melee. I don't like playing it, though. Mostly for the reason that I can't find a character that fits me, and I suck at it, lol. But it's still a blast to watch.

 

I seriously don't understand how people can fight and argue so much about 2 DIFFERENT Smash games. I personally like Smash 4 more, but I still think Melee is fantastic. I like Samsung a lot more than iPhone, but I don't go around and sh*t on Apple users. I like DOTA a lot more than LoL, but I don't go around and bash people who think the opposite.

Not sure why respect and having an open mind is so hard to learn.




(Btw, that edited picture of Melee's crew facing against some of Smash 4's crew looks pretty darn awesome)

THIS. EVERYONE NEEDS THIS KIND OF MIND. I don't get why people argue over this simple thought. Just stay with your community and respect other community. No need to get mad over the fact the other community is almost your level.

 

We can go back and forth labeling each other and trying to find reasons to hate each other. But it doesn't do any good, a lot of the stuff being directed at ESAM/TK/D1 and others isn't warranted.

If you have issues with a game you do not like, that's fine. A player showing up at summit over others, that is fine. Don't tell people, "Go jump off a bridge" "Get Cancer" "Go back to Tr4sh"

Don't bash people off what games they like to play. Do it based on what they do as a person, not what they like to play.

As I got from Zootopia and really just something that people should know but really isn't working as much is knowing how to improve your community by really telling people to knock it off.

Critiquing is not the same as bashing something, let's make that clear. TK's commentary improved over the weekend, but he dropped out due to people bashing him non stop. D1 has improved over time as well going between games. ESAM if anything is trying to get better at melee if he goes to summit.

Yes ESAM is using smash 4 players to help him, so is pretty much everyone else on the list of voters trying to gather what support they can. It's a popularity contest where he fit the conditions. That's all it is, if you got a huge problem with this then voice it to smash summit for making the conditions like it was.

A lot of stuff from the melee community recently has been very vile. Yes I know other communities do it at times as well, not to this degree or how it has been over the past almost decade.

But let's also put to rest the whole, "If you like melee but do not like smash 4 you are an elitist" No that's not true. If you act like a jerk about it, then yes you are.

If you see people being toxic, call them out on it. Really things like this need to stop at some point and it is only with effort to stop it will it.

 

Sm4sh/Brawl people are just as hateful. Omni's video was very one sided.

 

Sm4sh/Brawl people are just as hateful. Omni's video was very one sided.

Because of recent events it has been very one sided.

Extremely so.

 

Shoutouts to LiteralGrill for posting both the Tafotalk (the Melee side of the story) and the Omni "blog" (the Smash 4 side of the story). I honestly don't think Omni understands why the ESAM drama: it's not because he plays Smash 4 but because if he makes it in, a much better player than him won't and most of his perks and rewards are directed to Smash 4 players AKA people who don't care about BTS2 nor the effects that bringing a "bad" player will bring. Other than that, Omni was just Omni trying to look like a hero despite just seeking for attention.

 

Rn, this looks really bad. Idk how to respond.

 

Because of recent events it has been very one sided.

Extremely so.

It is mostly a general smash issue. TK stuff was fair criticism. Esam stuff is mostly salt due to popularity contest. Plus his reddit post made it even worse.

 

It is mostly a general smash issue. TK stuff was fair criticism. Esam stuff is mostly salt due to popularity contest. Plus his reddit post made it even worse.

Not really with TK, he was being bashed way more than he deserved if anything he got way better on day 2 and would be have been good on day 3.

ESAM's reddit post I admit wasn't helping but eh a lot of it is salt because it is a popularity contest.

 

I guess any criticism is considered hate now.

There's definitely a lot of hate coming in with the criticism.

 

Omni's 'critique' is a little over the top and too dismissive, I think, to be really considered a side of the debate. Tafo represents pretty much the same opinion, but does it in a much more level-headed way, I think. (For the record: I play sm4sh, but love watching competitive melee.)

 

Omni claiming that the hate on ESAM is because he's a Sm4sh player isn't entirely accurate. Yes, ESAM is a top 100 player according to MIOM. But if we're taking his MIOM placement into consideration, that means there's 80 players more deserving. A lot of people just don't want to bother watching ESAM lose every set he's going to play, because we all know that's what's going to happen. The fact that he would "body 99% of us" is completely irrelevant. We aren't his competition.

As for TKBreezy, people had good reason for their dislike of him on day 1 of Bot5G. He simply hadn't done his research, and he wasn't up to par. The Druggedfox sets were all great examples of how unprepared he was. That said, he did a great job day 2.

The hate of D1 isn't just because he commentates Sm4sh. It's because of how stale and overly professional his commentary has gotten. For a while, he refused to even mention PM, and then after weeks of criticism over it, wrote an apology mentioning that he still loved PM. He then proceeded to never mention it again despite this. The Karissa issue also cast a negative light on him. Even though his actions during the Karissa situation were understandable and things got out of hand, it's still going to cause some people to dislike him. There's also the impression he gives of being incredibly obsessed with his own appearance and reputation. His apologies about the PM and Karissa issues, as well as reports from Prog that he takes 3 hours in the bathroom getting ready before events really affects how people perceive him.

Omni's video is almost saturated with bias. He makes good points every now and then, but whenever opinions come up, he throws some impulsive clickbait at us and people eat it up.

 

Notice how these issues are always Melee vs. X group?

 

both games are awesome

edit: real talk most smash4 hate from melee is twitch trolls

 

Maybe it's because I haven't been into competitive play for very long (like, I've only been playing competitive Smash 4 for a year and that's it), but I've never understood why people feel the need to attack eachother over such trivial things as which smash game players prefer, like people are not allowed to like a certain game. In fact, from my experience with discussion with people who spout such nonsense, I find that many seem to have developed this mentality that people should not even be able to like Smash 4 for whatever reasons they come up with. A lot of them literally cannot grasp why people could possibly care for the game.

Likewise, I cannot grasp how this mentality ever developed. And frequently when I call these people out on what they say/write, they can't even back up their argument. Some come around, with some I end the discussion agreeing to disagree (which at least means there's some respect), but most just end up writing an insult-littered comment and leaving the discussion entirely.

Not to say this is a Melee-players exclusive thing. I often see Smash 4 players coming with their own provocative or straight up toxic comments or tactless, emotion-driven responses towards Melee players. That's certainly not setting any good examples. Still, I can't help but feel this is largely a product of built-up frustration over time, people having bad experiences with Melee players, and I can't say I don't understand that. That's not an excuse though, and it only further fuels the conflict.

As others have said, you don't have to like whatever game you aren't playing. You can disagree with people, you voice your dislikes and issues, but there's a right way and a wrong way of going about it. Like, don't go ****ting on people for liking a game you don't, things like that.

 

Omni claiming that the hate on ESAM is because he's a Sm4sh player isn't entirely accurate. Yes, ESAM is a top 100 player according to MIOM. But if we're taking his MIOM placement into consideration, that means there's 80 players more deserving. A lot of people just don't want to bother watching ESAM lose every set he's going to play, because we all know that's what's going to happen. The fact that he would "body 99% of us" is completely irrelevant. We aren't his competition.

As for TKBreezy, people had good reason for their dislike of him on day 1 of Bot5G. He simply hadn't done his research, and he wasn't up to par. The Druggedfox sets were all great examples of how unprepared he was. That said, he did a great job day 2.

The hate of D1 isn't just because he commentates Sm4sh. It's because of how stale and overly professional his commentary has gotten. For a while, he refused to even mention PM, and then after weeks of criticism over it, wrote an apology mentioning that he still loved PM. He then proceeded to never mention it again despite this. The Karissa issue also cast a negative light on him. Even though his actions during the Karissa situation were understandable and things got out of hand, it's still going to cause some people to dislike him. There's also the impression he gives of being incredibly obsessed with his own appearance and reputation. His apologies about the PM and Karissa issues, as well as reports from Prog that he takes 3 hours in the bathroom getting ready before events really affects how people perceive him.

Omni's video is almost saturated with bias. He makes good points every now and then, but whenever opinions come up, he throws some impulsive clickbait at us and people eat it up.

That wasn't a click bait video.

TK was getting bashed and hated well before he started commentating. That's unwarranted even when it kept up when he improved hugely on day 2.

 

Notice how these issues are always Melee vs. X group?

It's always been Melee vs The World

• Melee vs Brawl
• Melee vs Smash 4
• Melee vs Nintendo
• Melee vs the FGC
• Melee vs EVO
• Melee vs Project M
• Melee vs Sakurai
• Melee vs Melee itself

It's stop becoming a joke and more of a legit issue that is with the community. This ****fest of a community is willing to crap on each other but play the victim when evil Nintendo and those FGC monsters are coming after us.

**** that. I love Melee but those ****ing drone ruined 2 consecutive APEX Tournaments by being *****. And you wanna tell me that the fanbase isn't guilty. **** off, there's problems in every Smash game fanbase including 64 but it's when people don't call out on that crap and act like children and looking for drama.

Forget Family
Forget Honor
And **** #OneUnit

Just play Smash and enjoy it. Just don't be a ****

 

For anybody who doesn't care to watch either video. Long story short, ESAM made a "wahhh I'm a victim, pity me *******" tumblr type of post trying to make the Melee community look bad on Reddit the other day and being an all around selfish asshole when all most people were doing was righteously criticizing him for using his Sm4sh fame to secure a position at the upcoming Melee focused "Summit" tournament, something that has rubbed just about everybody in the Melee community the wrong way given that ESAM isn't all that good at Melee compared to other players who may very well be the next generation of 20xx gods. Hell, he's even said on Twitter before that he doesn't really care that much about Melee so really, the only reason he cares about Summit is to boost his own fame, not show off how good he is at high level Melee.

To put it another way, what if sm4sh had something similar to summit and a Melee player who's been recorded as having said that he doesn't like Sm4sh all that much tried to use their Melee fame to essentially snatch a spot from a more deserving Sm4sh player. Wouldn't that piss you off BIG TIME? I've never cared that much for ESAM. I think him refusing to see other points of view(Miigalty anybody?) is NOT the kind of attitude the smash bros community in general needs. ESAM pretty much pulling the victim card the other day was the final straw for I think a lot of people.

 

Arent these supposed to be party games geared towards CHILDREN??? why are we fighting about this???

 

I think that the Melee community should take some advice from Invisible Man.

You're wasting your time if you're trying to get people to see clearly in a society where the concensus is that you're invisible.

You're better off acknowledging your invisibility and just living your life how you want.

 

For anybody who doesn't care to watch either video. Long story short, ESAM made a "wahhh I'm a victim, pity me *******" tumblr type of post trying to make the Melee community look bad on Reddit the other day and being an all around selfish ******* when all most people were doing was righteously criticizing him for using his Sm4sh fame to secure a position at the upcoming Melee focused "Summit" tournament, something that has rubbed just about everybody in the Melee community the wrong way given that ESAM isn't all that good at Melee compared to other players who may very well be the next generation of 20xx gods. Hell, he's even said on Twitter before that he doesn't really care that much about Melee so really, the only reason he cares about Summit is to boost his own fame, not show off how good he is at high level Melee.

To put it another way, what if sm4sh had something similar to summit and a Melee player who's been recorded as having said that he doesn't like Sm4sh all that much tried to use their Melee fame to essentially snatch a spot from a more deserving Sm4sh player. Wouldn't that piss you off BIG TIME? I've never cared that much for ESAM. I think him refusing to see other points of view(Miigalty anybody?) is NOT the kind of attitude the smash bros community in general needs. ESAM pretty much pulling the victim card the other day was the final straw for I think a lot of people.

what was his position on miis?

 

Being a Smash 64 / Wii U player myself I can honestly say I have always seen and felt a since of elitism and toxicity from the Melee and PM comunities. Although I prefer to play 64 and Wii U I have always LOVED watching Melee and it always sucks hearing other players in the same comunity bash on the games that I love to play.

Brawl players have always had it the worst though.

 

Frankly, with that reddit post that ESAM made, he is just asking for criticism at this point. He could have just told everyone "hey, I qualified, I have a lot of fans, and I'm getting votes. If you don't like it, then you'll just have to hold that L". I would respect that. But instead he spent most of his time whining and talking about the "ruthless" Melee community. And when he said that if there was a Smash 4 Summit and a Melee player tried to get in, the Smash 4 community would welcome him with open arms, made ESAM look full of ****, because that is a complete and utter lie, and he knows it. The Smash 4 community has fans just as toxic as Melee's does, and you can't deny it. Sure, the Smash 4 players themselves would be fine with it, but the Melee players themselves don't have a problem with him being there either. So I'm sorry, but I don't feel too bad about the hate ESAM is getting if he going to act like that.

But there is no denying the toxicity in the Melee community. All the dimwits criticizing TKBreezy and D1 for being "Smash 4 commentators" and that they need to "go back to Smash 4", you need to shut your face. Those two guys (yes, even TK) have given so much love, appreciation, and support to Melee for so long, and you're gonna attack them like that? If someone like Sky tried commentating Melee majors, then that's one thing. But TK and D1 have been commentating both Smash 4 AND Melee before and since Smash 4 came out. They never left Melee, they've always been here, and the non-idiots in the Melee community love them.

Melee doesn't need losers like you people representing the community.

 

There is a reason why the FGC laughs at the Smash community..........

 

Ok I'm just putting this out there for everyone. A few days ago I went on teamsp00ky's stream to watch a smash 4 top 8, and there was unbelievable vitriol in the chat by a plethora of (bad) melee players towards sm4sh, even in March, 2016. Like, it was completely unwarranted and it was coming out from the beginning of the sm4sh top 8 towards the end of it, and it was quite frankly embarrassing. Melee kids need to get a grip on their behavior as I know no top Melee player would condone it. I myself am an older player, who played 64 since the day it came out, melee since the day it came out, and moved on to the other games. So as an elder of smash brothers please take my advice and shut the **** up, or at least keep the trolling of the sm4sh community to an absolute minimum, even on streams where you're hiding behind your account name.

 

Here's another point about the toxic fans in the Melee community: The majority of those people probably have never even been to a tournament before. So people calling the Melee players toxic, that's not true, because the people Omni is talking about aren't even actual players, they are just losers behind a keyboard.

 

Here's another point about the toxic fans in the Melee community: The majority of those people probably have never even been to a tournament before. So people calling the Melee players toxic, that's not true, because the people Omni is talking about aren't even actual players, they are just losers behind a keyboard.

True most are online. But I have seen plenty of toxicity at tournaments as well.

 

Ok I'm just putting this out there for everyone. A few days ago I went on teamsp00ky's stream to watch a smash 4 top 8, and there was unbelievable vitriol in the chat by a plethora of (bad) melee players towards sm4sh, even in March, 2016. Like, it was completely unwarranted and it was coming out from the beginning of the sm4sh top 8 towards the end of it, and it was quite frankly embarrassing. Melee kids need to get a grip on their behavior as I know no top Melee player would condone it. I myself am an older player, who played 64 since the day it came out, melee since the day it came out, and moved on to the other games. So as an elder of smash brothers please take my advice and shut the **** up, or at least keep the trolling of the sm4sh community to an absolute minimum, even on streams where you're hiding behind your account name.

>using a cancerous Twitch chat as an example

I'm sorry m8 but that's just plain dumb. That chat is awful and you can't use Stream Monsters as an example of that. Those same Stream Monsters that **** up any event

 

>using a cancerous Twitch chat as an example

I'm sorry m8 but that's just plain dumb. That chat is awful and you can't use Stream Monsters as an example of that. Those same Stream Monsters that **** up any event

Seriously, those Twitch chats are festering cancer bombs with about as much intelligence as a pile of dung.

 

I love the Smash community, I love Smash Boards, I hate Twitch chat. This is where all this drama is coming from and it has no place here. The vocal majority on Twitch probably have never once attended a local event or volunteered to help organize one. And the problem with being a top player, content creator, or personality in this community, is that you're too exposed to an ignorant mass of people who have no idea how this community got to be where it is now in the first place. It's complete slander to the passionate people who continue to help spread the game around the world. You'll have to take the cliche for what it is, but we don't play this game for ourselves, we play it for each other. None of the top players built themselves up to where they are on their own.

 

Came here expecting people pinning all the tension on Melee fans, did not leave disappointed.

 

A lot of people I know just don't want Esam to get in over players that would put up a good show.
Let's be honest here, unless Esam jumps into a Hyperbolic Melee Chamber, it's going to be a bloodfest when you consider the skill level of the other guys there.

 

I think the point of this article was to start WW3

 

THIS. EVERYONE NEEDS THIS KIND OF MIND. I don't get why people argue over this simple thought. Just stay with your community and respect other community. No need to get mad over the fact the other community is almost your level.

I love the positive thinking, and I agree with everything being said, but people love their impenetrable fortresses of smash (both melee and smash 4). The ignorance will continue, but we can do our best to diminish it. Articles and videos like these do a wonderful job of highlighting the ridiculousness of it all, and I personally commend everyone doing their part to help spread the peace

TL DR; Dumb people stay dumb, but at least we can try to fix it

 

Omni? Respected?

 

Came here expecting people pinning all the tension on Melee fans, did not leave disappointed.

It's not the entire Melee community but in my experience the Melee community is toxic second only to the League of Legends community. The only bad talk I have ever heard from players of another Smash game (besides Melee / PM) towards Melee / PM is about how toxic their community can be.

Honestly the first step in stopping the divide of the community should be to stop referring to each game as their own separate communities.