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Switching from Falco to Fox?

StorM90

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
3
I have been playing Falco for about 6 months, and I realized I was limiting myself by playing him. They butchered him. So I went to Fox and hopped into for glory real quick to get a feel for the character, and I lost 4/5 games.

My biggest issues were killing, I don't know any of his kill setups, so I was relying on reads and couldn't kill until 130+, and also landing up tilt. It hits behind fox so I'm not sure how to position myself to land it.

I see he has potential, but he is a lot different from Falco. My only real complaint with him is his grab game, fox has no guarantees off his grabs.
 

ZeroJanitor

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
977
Slippi.gg
ZJ#732
NNID
ZeroJanitor
Switch FC
SW-3025-9002-7252
Fox's best kill confirms are weak nair or down-air into upsmash between 90-130% (roughly), tipper jab2 into upsmash, or tipper down-tilt into up-air (the tipper for this move is in the middle of his tail for some reason)

Up-tilt is a fantastic move, one of Fox's best and definitely worth learning. It's a bit disjointed, comes out on frame 4, combos into itself for a while, and the late hit can also kill confirm into up-air (a bit situational though). It can also hit beneath platforms and ledges, so it can hit people recovering if you time it juuust right. Plus, it's a good way to cover your rear.

Fox's grab game is admittedly bad, but his jab is very fast and pretty safe, and you can always guarantee at least some damage from rapid jab, so try using jabs sometimes as an alternative to grabs.
 
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StorM90

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
3
Thanks. Weak nair to up smash is very consistent right now. I need to get better with my up airs though.

I was wondering if there was any specific tech I should look into implementing into my game?
 

Sabz09

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Messages
5
Ac upairs a must I'd say for fox. It could combo in to itself (each clean hit is 16 damage) so its a really good tool to rack up damage and also to finish. Once you get the timing down itll become pretty easy and become one of your best tools. Fair footstools also a pretty useful To kill as well (you basically fastfall during your 2nd or 3rd of fair offstage when it hits and then go for a footstool for the kill) this will need practice though
overall learning the kill confirms and learning how to ac uairs probably the most important things to start. Doing a bunch of empty hops is pretty useful for fox just to keep your opponent guessing
 

StorM90

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
3
Ac upairs a must I'd say for fox. It could combo in to itself (each clean hit is 16 damage) so its a really good tool to rack up damage and also to finish. Once you get the timing down itll become pretty easy and become one of your best tools. Fair footstools also a pretty useful To kill as well (you basically fastfall during your 2nd or 3rd of fair offstage when it hits and then go for a footstool for the kill) this will need practice though
overall learning the kill confirms and learning how to ac uairs probably the most important things to start. Doing a bunch of empty hops is pretty useful for fox just to keep your opponent guessing
When should I initiate the up air for it to autocancel? At the climax of the shorthop? Fair footstool is so hard for me to pull off, but yeah I need to learn that.
 

EmpireCrusher203

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
79
Location
Florida
3DS FC
3926-7161-9170
I can't really explain it, because I am not good with Fox's frame data, but from my experience, when you initiate the Up air, you should hit the floor right when fox throws his first kick. He should do a handstand, symbolizing the auto cancel. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

EnhaloTricks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
197
Location
Texas
When should I initiate the up air for it to autocancel? At the climax of the shorthop? Fair footstool is so hard for me to pull off, but yeah I need to learn that.
Not on topic, but switch to tilt stick for Fox. It is OBJECTIVELY better than smash stick for him.

Uair ACs on f25. Fox's short hop is 26 frames. You need to do the uair 1 frame after leaving the ground for it to autocancel. A bit hard without double sticking. Here's a couple different ways to do it:

Claw grip: take your first finger on your right hand and put it on jump. Middle finger on R. Larry does this. To do sh uairs you need to press jump and u on the cstick at the same time.
Traditional Double Sticking: Tap jump on. Press up on both sticks at the same time (specifics of it are that Fox has a 4 frame jump squat so if you press up on the c stick during it it buffers the uair and comes out IMMEDIATELY).
Modified Double Sticking (what I use): Set a shoulder button to jump (L for me). Press L, up on the analog, and up on the cstick. Same effect as the traditional method, but doesn't use tap jump.
Just regular button presses: Kinda hard, cause you have to press up + A within 2 frames of leaving the ground. I used to do this but got a lot of jump cancel usmashes that I didn't want so I dropped it for MDS.

You'll know you did it right if you can shield immediately upon landing with no lag.

As far as other things for Fox:

Learn to jump cancel Usmash consistently. It extends the range where nair/dair > usmash will kill by a large margin.
AC Bairs. I don't mean just sh bair immediately (though that works vs Rosa, Bowser and Ike), but there are specific heights to do it at vs many chars and still ac it. Practice on shorter characters and taller ones. The REALLY short ones are almost impossible to do it consistently so it's typically not even worth going for.
His bnb combos: utilt > uair, dthrow > rar bair (low percent), kill confirms, uair > uair, 2 framing with utilt. I could list a lot of combos, ngl, but these are the super important ones (and I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot).
Learning to air dodge read well.
Finding uses for his grabs. Uthrow sets up juggles, fthrow leads to tech chases around 40% until 115% or so depending on DI, bthrow is meh, dthrow is great at low percent and can combo into lasers at high percent.
General movement. Foxtrot, dash > shield, etc.
Fair spiking. The secret to fair spiking is you CANNOT buffer fair from a jump. You can only fastfall at the peak of your jump. So jump > fair > FASTFALL> jump > fs. Or even bring them down to the stage for a smash attack or whatever you want. To get a consistent fair > fs you need to hit with the 3rd or 4th hit of fair or else they can jump out and fs you.

To hit with util just... face away. Spaced well it's pretty safe on shield, but not 100% so be wary of that.

Once you got the feel for him get into more advanced stuff like ac bair combos, ac dair > fs/stuff, reading air dodge with firefox, perfect pivot for extending combos, etc.

And I'm sure there's more.

I can't really explain it, because I am not good with Fox's frame data, but from my experience, when you initiate the Up air, you should hit the floor right when fox throws his first kick. He should do a handstand, symbolizing the auto cancel. Please correct me if I am wrong.
No, that's wrong. If he does the handstand then you were too slow and got landing lag. Both kicks should come out. If you can land and shield immediately you did it right.
 

Flubz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
20
Location
Portland, OR
Another potentially dangerous combo starter is autocancel Dair. If you fullhop and time it right, Fox will be able to get at most, the last 2 hits of Dair (on taller characters mostly) and still be able to land without lag.
SH AC Dair allows Fox to do a whole lot of interesting stuff. At low percents you can footstool your opponent and lock them with soft Nair, which can lead to a lot of damage- watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PXDv6NC-RY. Basically, you can follow up with anything you want- Uair, Bair, etc.

The reverse hitbox of pivot Ftilt can be used to start combos as well. It can true combo into Utilt, Ftilt, and even running/JC Usmash. At the ledge, if you get the reverse pivot Ftilt hitbox and choose to follow up with another Ftilt, you put the opponent in a nice position for Fox's Footstool-Fair. The downwards-angled Ftilt can also hit grounded opponents, so you can use it to punish missed techs.

Learning how to trump is also pretty useful for Fox. I'm in the process of learning both trumping from at the ledge, and trumping out of a run. Trump Bair can net you KO's pretty well, and even if you don't choose the Bair follow up, you still force the opponent into a bad position. If your opponent regrabs the ledge, you can just Dsmash them off.

Perfect pivoting can be very useful when using Fox. I think that the best and easiest control configuration to use in conjunction with perfect pivoting is mapping your right stick to attack. This will allow you to PP tilt much easier than using your left stick. PP Ftilt can be used to space/approach, PP Utilt allows you to get more Utilts when stringing them together (and you could PP Utilt when aiming for a 2-frame), PP Dtilt I haven't found to be that useful unless you can reverse it and approach with it (which I can't manage) but maybe you can use it to readjust your position when your opponent is jumping in at you in order to hit with the sweetspot. PP smashes with tilt stick is a bit more difficult than with smash stick, but I think the benefits of tilt stick outweigh the benefits of smash stick.

Fox doesn't have the best grab game, but you should still look for grabs- especially if your opponent gets in the habit of shielding.
Fox doesn't have a lot of guaranteed follow-ups off of grabs, but Dthrow can combo into Fair (which you can then follow up with Uair). Dthrow is also a good setup for RAR Bair. Uthrow can sometimes be followed up by Uair, but it's not guaranteed. Bthrow and Fthrow I mostly just use at the ledge to get the opponent offstage.
 

DeltaForce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
62
My only idea would be to watch Beef Smash Doods video The Natural it showcases a lot of fox's kill options. Also Uptilt 2 frame to back air can be true as well as using up air.
 
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