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Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

Xandercosm

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I don't even think Sheik is top 10 anymore. She has literally no way of killing now. She can still dish out huge damage but basically all of her kill options are gone so she just gives the opponent rage and then they hit her once and she's dead.
 

Bowserboy3

Asking mum how to talk to a lady
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I still think ZSS is top 5, definitely. She isn't in her own tier now, but her nerfs don't change her game like Sheik's or Meta Knight. Her nerfs just mean she has to work a bit harder to rack up that damage. She still has a super safe Nair on shield, hit confirms into grab (Nair or Zair), Paralyzer combos still work etc, Back Throw/Dsmash into Flip Kick spike both still work etc.

Sheik on the other hand can kiss top 5 potential goodbye. Unlike ZSS, her nerfs drastically change her game up. No super easy bake combos with Fthrow/Dthrow. No 50-50 confirms off of throws. Less range on needles, weakening ability to control space. Dies earlier. Like, she can still combo you easily, but she now actually has lots of trouble killing safely outside of edge guards.
 
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Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
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At this point, I'd take nerfs over the silent treatment Jigglypuff's getting... Ugh.
1::4sheik::4zss:
2::rosalina::4bayonetta::4cloud::4pikachu::4ryu:
3::4diddy::4sonic::4fox::4metaknight::4mario::4villager::4ness:
4::4corrin::4greninja:
5::4wario::4yoshi::4falcon::4tlink:(:4darkpit::4pit:):4myfriends::4peach::4luigi::4lucario::4pacman::4rob::4dk::4bowser::4mewtwo::4lucas::4miibrawl:
6::4marth::4olimar::4gaw::4kirby::4miigun::4falco::4link::4megaman::4robinf::4wiifit::4miisword::4littlemac::4feroy:
7::4lucina::4bowserjr::4shulk::4samus::4drmario::4charizard::4palutena::4duckhunt:
1 in my heart::4dedede::4ganondorf::4zelda::4jigglypuff:
Hey, Dedede finally joined us down at the bottom! It's still pretty lonely though, maybe Duck Hunt'll come join the fun too eventually, there's always room for one more, don'tcha think?

- 1 :4sheik:&:4zss: You know, I never actually thought there'd be a day where I'd get to downvote these two, since they always got these really minuscule and negligible nerfs, but they actually got nerfed for realsies this time.
+ 1 :4olimar: I believe that he's solidly Tier 5 material.
+ 1 :4zelda: I think that because of this patch's changes, Zelda deserves to go up now. I'm so jealous right now.
+ 1 :4samus: Her placement in next-to-bottom tier was already kind of sketchy to me personally, and now with the latest buffs I find it really hard to believe she actually belongs there.
 
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Pippin (Peregrin Took)

Formerly “ItalianBaptist”
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So with Sheik and ZSS being nerfed, is the meta going to become Bayonetta centric? ZeRo had her right between those two but that's one man's opinion.

I sincerely hope not. Any one character dominating is not a game I wanna play.
 
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Routa

Smash Lord
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So with Sheik and ZSS being nerfed, is the meta going to become Bayonetta centric? ZeRo had her right between those two but that's one man's opinion.

I sincerely hope not. Any one character dominating is not a game I wanna play.
I think ZSS will still stay high, but I think top 3 might end up being :4cloud2::4diddy::4bayonetta2:
 

Bowserboy3

Asking mum how to talk to a lady
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I think ZSS could still be top 3. Bayonetta being 1st is no doubt now for me. Cloud and Diddy though... hnngh... I can't see them in top 3. Rosalina however... hmm, that is a possibility.

Though those 5 would be an acceptable top 5.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I'm also adamant in the belief Diddy can be top 5. He has the mobility, frame data, the best fair in the game (tied with :4mewtwo:!), kill confirms and the amazing neutral all outfitted to do so. Just watch.
 

ShadowGuy1

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
1,311
Well, Rosalina for best character? That is against my beliefs as a player as I never play the best character, but three of the characters I main are now best character potential
 

TMNTSSB4

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Well, Rosalina for best character? That is against my beliefs as a player as I never play the best character, but three of the characters I main are now best character potential
I've been on that boat before...now I only abuse Pit
 

jigglesthepuff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
181
Well, Rosalina for best character? That is against my beliefs as a player as I never play the best character, but three of the characters I main are now best character potential
her lightweight and a recovery that does no damage holds her back. she's definitely top 3 though.
 

Zethoro

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I don't even think Sheik is top 10 anymore. She has literally no way of killing now. She can still dish out huge damage but basically all of her kill options are gone so she just gives the opponent rage and then they hit her once and she's dead.
Nair/FAir to bouncing fish, needles to bouncing fish, edgeguards and FThrow still puts opponents in a bad spot to get read and killed.
Other characters get by just fine without a way to KO from grabs (Fox). Just losing 50/50s is a definite nerf, but she's certainly still top 10 and I'd say she's still top 3.
 
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apparently fuz

legendary doesn't fit me.
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Zero Suit nerfs didn't mess her up that much. She's still a top 5 character. I'm inclined to say that she's currently better than Sheik, but we'll need to see what these characters end up doing.
 

Djmarcus44

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
471
I'm also adamant in the belief Diddy can be top 5. He has the mobility, frame data, the best fair in the game (tied with :4mewtwo:!), kill confirms and the amazing neutral all outfitted to do so. Just watch.
I agree with everything you said except for Diddy and Mewtwo having the best Fairs. Gunner's fair is better than both of those fairs because of the range, safety and versatility of the move. It is a transcendent projectile that only has 12 frames of landing lag (this low lag combined with the move's great range makes it safe on perfect shielding), and it is also combos into many of Gunner's moves (these combos are listed in the mii gunner true combo and follow up thread). Gunner also gets the ability to gundash for a good boost in mobility (it gives the speed of a falcon kick without any landing lag) and recovery. Since sheik's fair got nerfed, I think that Mii Gunner's fair is the best fair in the game.
 

Stick Dude

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The top tiers and new DLC characters got nerfed, and my boy Greninja got buffed, the only way this day can get any better is if Pikachu is untouched.
 

ShadowGuy1

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,311
So, after the nerfs who does everyone think is the best character? I think it is either :4bayonetta:or:rosalina:. If its bayo, i will happily drop her, but if its Rosa, yeah no.
 

TMNTSSB4

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So, after the nerfs who does everyone think is the best character? I think it is either :4bayonetta:or:rosalina:. If its bayo, i will happily drop her, but if its Rosa, yeah no.
Probably Rosa for the moment
 

ShadowGuy1

Smash Lord
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Apr 19, 2015
Messages
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Probably Rosa for the moment
Well Zero said on twitter that its bayo, dabuz said that rosa cloud and bayo are the top 3 for him, but patch is too early but Shiek is for sure not the best character anymore in my opinion.
 

Wintermelon43

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Messages
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Well Zero said on twitter that its bayo, dabuz said that rosa cloud and bayo are the top 3 for him, but patch is too early but Shiek is for sure not the best character anymore in my opinion.
Yeaaaaa Dabuz knows his stuff.

I wonder who ZeRo and Abadango will start using now. There's no wY they'll deal with the nerfs and keep using their characters. ZeRo alwYs uses the best and Abadango only played meta knight due to the up b thing
 

TMNTSSB4

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Yeaaaaa Dabuz knows his stuff.

I wonder who ZeRo and Abadango will start using now. There's no wY they'll deal with the nerfs and keep using their characters. ZeRo alwYs uses the best and Abadango only played meta knight due to the up b thing
ZeRo=:4diddy::4pit:
Abadango=:4pacman::rosalina:
 

ShadowGuy1

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Yeaaaaa Dabuz knows his stuff.

I wonder who ZeRo and Abadango will start using now. There's no wY they'll deal with the nerfs and keep using their characters. ZeRo alwYs uses the best and Abadango only played meta knight due to the up b thing
Zero is probably going to use :4bayonetta: while Abadango will just stick with:rosalina:and maybe:4cloud2:
 

ShadowGuy1

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Messages
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But, like, does the removal of that one awful MU (or mitigation of it) even go so far as to move him up places? If so, this could be a good time to pick up Greninja.
He also got grab buffs and others iirc. I think this is good for him, but we will see. Btw, when is Pound?
 

Munomario777

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Greninja's dash attack and standing grab are faster, as is the landing lag from fair and bair – each by a few frames. Should help him out a bit. (Also there's some odd "rebound" thing with Hydro Pump, not sure what exactly that is.)
 

Xandercosm

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Greninja's dash attack and standing grab are faster, as is the landing lag from fair and bair – each by a few frames. Should help him out a bit. (Also there's some odd "rebound" thing with Hydro Pump, not sure what exactly that is.)
I was reading a bit on Greninja boards and apparently B-air locks are much easier now and SHFF F-airs are amazing now. Pretty sweet. This and the Sheik nerf is inspiring me to try Grenina again.
 

Jumpo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
27
-1:4sheik: I have been studying some videos this morning, without throw kills Sheik is going to struggle killing until a stray fair at 170%+ consistently.. Sit in shield and there is nothing you can do (comparing to fox, at least fox can shield poke with dair to get the kill or uthrow to catch them with uair or a really strong bair)
+1 :4bayonetta: she is definitely one of, if not the best character in the game, needs to be tier 1
+1 :rosalina: up air and luma.
+1 :4samus: looks like her buffs will make her a much better character
+1:4mewtwo: He gets blurry when he runs he is that fast. Enough said.
 

A10theHero

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+1 :4pikachu:
I think that Pikachu should move down a tier, but right now he's at -11. That's going down 3 tiers. RIP.

-1 :4ryu:
He's been falling out of favor recently. The future is not looking good for Ryu unfortunately. :ohwell:

-1 :4pacman:
Similar reasoning as for Ryu.

I'm not sure what else I want to vote for. So I'll leave it at that for now.
 

Zethoro

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Zethor
+1 :4sheik:
People are really overreacting to these nerfs. Shiek still has a fantastic neutral, camping game, incredible spacing and edgeguard tools, an amazing recovery, and still has all her kill confirms not related to throws. Shiek can KO you without a problem off of FAir.
FAir. If they shield it, it's free pressure anyway.
I think as time goes by Shiek mains will adapt to no throw KOs and things will be just as normal and she'll still be the best character in the game.

-1 :4metaknight:
These nerfs, however...Meta Knight is right back to being as overlooked as he was at the beginning of Smash 4. I can't see even the most loyal top MK players sticking with him now.

+1 :4corrinf:. damage nerfs did great things for Corrin's already great combo game, and counter is insignificant anyway.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Is this list going to be restarted because of patch 1.1.5 or do we keep voting on it in its current state?
 

Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
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Messages
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+1 :4sheik:
People are really overreacting to these nerfs. Shiek still has a fantastic neutral, camping game, incredible spacing and edgeguard tools, an amazing recovery, and still has all her kill confirms not related to throws. Shiek can KO you without a problem off of FAir.
FAir. If they shield it, it's free pressure anyway.
I think as time goes by Shiek mains will adapt to no throw KOs and things will be just as normal and she'll still be the best character in the game.

-1 :4metaknight:
These nerfs, however...Meta Knight is right back to being as overlooked as he was at the beginning of Smash 4. I can't see even the most loyal top MK players sticking with him now.

+1 :4corrinf:. damage nerfs did great things for Corrin's already great combo game, and counter is insignificant anyway.
Tyrant, Leo, and Ito don't use the up air to up b combos much, they use it a few times in a set, like never more than 5 basicially. The only person dropping Meta Knight is Abadango (Assuming, since that's all Abadango uses of Meta Knight)
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
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I'll just go ahead and vote.

:4sheik:-
:4zss:-
:4mewtwo:+
:4samus:+
:4pacman:-
 
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ShadowGuy1

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
1,311
+1 :4sheik:
People are really overreacting to these nerfs. Shiek still has a fantastic neutral, camping game, incredible spacing and edgeguard tools, an amazing recovery, and still has all her kill confirms not related to throws. Shiek can KO you without a problem off of FAir.
FAir. If they shield it, it's free pressure anyway.
I think as time goes by Shiek mains will adapt to no throw KOs and things will be just as normal and she'll still be the best character in the game.

-1 :4metaknight:
These nerfs, however...Meta Knight is right back to being as overlooked as he was at the beginning of Smash 4. I can't see even the most loyal top MK players sticking with him now.

+1 :4corrinf:. damage nerfs did great things for Corrin's already great combo game, and counter is insignificant anyway.
It hurts shiek when the best player says she no longer number 1. But thats all he said on twittwr
 

AlphaSSB

Bring Back Star Fox
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Dammit, why do I never get notifications to this thread? Ugh, anyways, are we rating any particular group today? Looking around I guess not, so I'll just get my votes in now, and change them later if need be.

:4fox:+
:4falco:+
:4sheik:+

:4bayonetta:-
:4cloud:-
 
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Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
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1::4sheik::4zss:
2::rosalina::4bayonetta::4cloud::4pikachu::4ryu:
3::4diddy::4sonic::4fox::4metaknight::4mario::4villager::4ness:
4::4corrin::4greninja:
5::4wario::4yoshi::4falcon::4tlink:(:4darkpit::4pit:):4myfriends::4peach::4luigi::4lucario::4pacman::4rob::4dk::4bowser::4mewtwo::4lucas::4miibrawl:
6::4marth::4olimar::4gaw::4kirby::4miigun::4falco::4link::4megaman::4robinf::4wiifit::4miisword::4littlemac::4feroy:
7::4lucina::4bowserjr::4shulk::4samus::4drmario::4charizard::4palutena::4duckhunt:
8::4dedede::4ganondorf::4zelda::4jigglypuff:
-1:4bowser:Gonna wait to fill this out until I'm in a really good mood, right now I can't fill this one in without getting myself infracted.

-1:4link:Bad Frame Data, Slow in general, bad throws and grab, bad recovery, terrible matchup spread (Apart from his advantage aganist Villager), generally poor moveset, and extremely overrated.

+1:4megaman:Both good in terms of results and theory, just that matchups aren't the best. Great results in southeast USA due to Scatt. His pellets and projectiles are all great, he has great KO Power, good moveset in general, extremely underrated, etc. :4wiifit: and :4robinm: have the same problem but :4megaman: is a little better so he gets the vote

+1:rosalina:Probably the best character now due to Sheik and ZSS getting nerfed

+1:4diddy:Theory, matchups, and results suggest he could be higher, at least above Ryu and Pikachu (lol)
Replaxing my Kirby vote with a Rosalina up vote due to the new balance patch.
 
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