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Swallowcide- What you should already know

DeathscytheHello

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I see so many stupid things about inhaling someone off the edge that it makes me kind of sick. It's about time someone writes something about it.

Alright, to begin, the Swallowcide is an excellent technique used by Kirby players. Basically, the Kirby player inhales the opponent and drops to his death, much like a suicide. Unlike a suicide, though, the good Kirby player won't die. He'll resurface, more annoying than ever because he just took a life away from his opponent in a rather cheap fashion (if anyone calls you cheap, call them a tier-***** [chances are they're above Kirby] and move on). Those are the basics of the move.

Now we'll get to the how-to. First, you're gonna have to get the opponent into the trap. This involves cleverness and good reactions. You gotta get the opponent to move to where you can get them- the inhale's range is not that great, but it can surprise you. Anyway, one of my preferred ways is to ledgehop it. One could also make a running start on-stage, then short-hop an inhale, using your moment to carry you off the edge. There are other ways, but we'll get to that later.

OK, so they're in the trap. Now, here's where your opponent can make your life easier. The gut reaction of many people is to break out. That's exactly what you want them to do. Strike fear into their hearts; watch them try to make the futile escape. If they do break out, that makes their death somewhat less certain, but it depends on the character. Fastfallers are screwed, horizontal recoveries are nixxed, maybe a large vertical recovery can survive. Anyway, the reason they tend to die is because when they break out, they keep falling at their normal rate while you seem to suspend in the same point for a second. Basically, they drop and you don't.

Now, if your opponent is in the know, they can make your life a bit harder. They can stay in and let you two fall. Now everything rides on you. At the bottom of the field, they'll die first. That's right. They die first. Leaving Kirby a chance to fly back to safety, much like Daedalus fleeing Crete. Anyway, you'll have few frames to make your recovery. Here's a list by Omnigamer of how many frames you have on each character.

Omnigamer said:
New frame data in. This is important stuff, so I felt that it needed its own post ^_^

=========================================
Suicide-Cancel Frames
The number of frames between when they die and you die; essentially, it's the frame window that you can jump to save your life for the swallowcide. I've split characters into groups to make viewing and understanding this easier. The number next to each character is the exact frame window that you have. All testing was done on FD, and consecutive tests on the same character proved consistent.
=========================================

--------------------------------
The Easy Guys
The people that you shouldn't have much trouble suicide-cancelling against.
--------------------------------

* Bowser: 7

* Captain Falcon: 6

* Donkey Kong: 6

* Ganon: 6

* Samus: 6


--------------------------------
The Moderately Difficults
The middle-of-the-road guys. Timing might be a bit difficult.
--------------------------------

* Falco: 3

* Fox: 3

* Link: 3

* Marth: 4

* Mewtwo: 4

* Peach: 3

* Roy: 4

* Sheik: 3

* Young Link: 3

* Zelda: 3


--------------------------------
The Very Difficults
You've only got 1/60th of a second to live against these guys. Do you think you have what it takes? But just 1 frame difference is enough for you to win at the last stock.
--------------------------------

* Doctor Mario: 1

* Game & Watch: 1

* Luigi: 1

* Mario: 1

* Pikachu: 1

* Yoshi: 1


--------------------------------
The Impossibles
Don't even bother with these guys unless you're ahead. You die at the same time, and it WILL go into Sudden Death if you're both on the last stock...
--------------------------------

* Ice Climber: 0

* Jigglypuff: 0

* Kirby: 0

* Ness: 0

* Pichu: 0
You have to hit a jump button (X, Y, or up) within those frames to live. Personally, I hit all three in succession to better my chances, then just hold up to maximize my vertical recovery. The rest is easy sailing; just hit the edge, and you've successfully completed the swallowcide! Congratulations! Now get good at it.

Now that you know how, now you gotta learn when. Basically, it's whenever the opprotunity presents itself (it's a free kill!), but it is still risky. Remember that even if you think they're falling into your trap, you may be falling into theirs. So, do it when you are relatively sure you can make it, you could use the free kill, or you're about to die anyway. Your intuition is your best bet here.

Also, concerning when you got to do it, there are certain places that won't work. Fountain of Dreams is one of them unless it's a character with a lot of frames (credit to King Kirby 90). Although Kirby's got a lot for vert, he doesn't have that much vert. Another place to watch out for is Final D. You basically sweetspot the edge, but you'll survive unless you swallowcided a one-framer. I have never been able to pull of the vert needed on a one-framer; it just may be me, but I don't think it is possible to get the one-framer on Final D.

There's what you should know about the swallowcide. If I missed anything, tell me. Comments are welcome, but please refrain from the "shoot under the stage" garbage. It's not a better tactic.
 

T_T

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Good job. I swear there should've already have been a guide. Nothing I didn't know already though.-_-

"but please refrain from the "shoot under the stage" garbage. It's not a better tactic."

LOL so true.
 

Samochan

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T_T said:
"but please refrain from the "shoot under the stage" garbage. It's not a better tactic."

LOL so true.
Unless you're dealing with stuff like mister GW that can recover from any swallowcide and is a 1 framer... >_> I tried to swallowcide on FoD and would have made it back since he got out before suiciding, but he made it back with jump and up B, and then parachuted me. >.> Just shoot that ***** under dreamland and he won't be coming back. Can work as a suprise tactic as well. Not many can instantly recover from below Dreamland, Fox and Falco for instance. I always go for a swallowcide though, but star shot is a viable choise in stages like dreamland 64 if you can pull it off.. Not to mention they might accidentally air dodge by pressing too many buttons.
 

DeathscytheHello

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Samochan said:
Unless you're dealing with stuff like mister GW that can recover from any swallowcide and is a 1 framer... >_> I tried to swallowcide on FoD and would have made it back since he got out before suiciding, but he made it back with jump and up B, and then parachuted me. >.> Just shoot that ***** under dreamland and he won't be coming back. Can work as a suprise tactic as well. Not many can instantly recover from below Dreamland, Fox and Falco for instance. I always go for a swallowcide though, but star shot is a viable choise in stages like dreamland 64 if you can pull it off.. Not to mention they might accidentally air dodge by pressing too many buttons.
Wow... see, this is why I called it garbage.

Let's look at the fallacies of your post. First off, you're trying to swallowcide GAME AND WATCH at FOUNTAIN OF DREAMS. Anybody doing this clearly does not care that they die with them; your stock in that situation seems to be expendable. Secondly, if he can break out before you swallowcide him, what makes you think you can shoot him out before then? They can still break out of the star, they gain a lot of upwards moment, they get their jump back and they get to Up-B again, not to mention hookshots and whatnot. So, now what happens is you keep dropping, he recovers and you have to try to sweetspot the now-guarded edge. Nice plan.

OK, now we'll take care of the next part. Fox and Falco are screwed anyway if you eat them on Dreamland. They're fastfallers, remember? Just survive it; three frames isn't bad when you get used to it. Also, remember why it would be a surprise tactic- because it's not a good choice to make. When you shoot someone out of the star, you're putting the ball in their court- you're letting them have a chance to live again. Don't do that!

Now, your air dodge thing has the right intent but it's in the wrong place. If you think your opponent is going to air-dodge out of the star, just shoot the from the edge (IE you're still on the ground) out into the abyss. A bit of luck, but it may have some use.

Also, remember that Kirby also has the dreaded up-throw suicide. If you need to kill Game and Watch on FoD and are a life ahead, use that instead- he won't recover from it.
 

Buttcrust

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technomancer said:
Sticky.

Great guide.
Agreed. It's about time someone told you all how to do this. I don't even play as Kirby and I know more about him than most of you. You should make it a complete guide first though, DSH.
 

zuloon

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Why don't you just shoot them out as a star, and then attack them, and then edgeguard?
 

Dodger

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Really nice. Very concise and to the point. Also, the frame data in this thread is handy, otherwise I have to go slogging through a really long guid. I wouldn;t mind if the thread was stickied.

Heh, yeah i pretty much knew all that, so I guess I'm asomewhat decent kirby player :-).

And spitting people out doesn't work people. Get over it :-)
 

Samochan

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DeathscytheHello said:
Wow... see, this is why I called it garbage.

Let's look at the fallacies of your post. First off, you're trying to swallowcide GAME AND WATCH at FOUNTAIN OF DREAMS. Anybody doing this clearly does not care that they die with them; your stock in that situation seems to be expendable. Secondly, if he can break out before you swallowcide him, what makes you think you can shoot him out before then? They can still break out of the star, they gain a lot of upwards moment, they get their jump back and they get to Up-B again, not to mention hookshots and whatnot. So, now what happens is you keep dropping, he recovers and you have to try to sweetspot the now-guarded edge. Nice plan.

OK, now we'll take care of the next part. Fox and Falco are screwed anyway if you eat them on Dreamland. They're fastfallers, remember? Just survive it; three frames isn't bad when you get used to it. Also, remember why it would be a surprise tactic- because it's not a good choice to make. When you shoot someone out of the star, you're putting the ball in their court- you're letting them have a chance to live again. Don't do that!

Now, your air dodge thing has the right intent but it's in the wrong place. If you think your opponent is going to air-dodge out of the star, just shoot the from the edge (IE you're still on the ground) out into the abyss. A bit of luck, but it may have some use.

Also, remember that Kirby also has the dreaded up-throw suicide. If you need to kill Game and Watch on FoD and are a life ahead, use that instead- he won't recover from it.

You seemingly misunderstood me. I meant that star short might be useable on levels where you can shoot them under the levels, like Dreamland and Battlefield. Dreamland has that kind of bottom that you'll get stuck under it, plus it's quite big level and not many characters have the horizonal recovery to cut it. GW doesn't, neither can Fox or Falco magically make curves into their Up B. My friend is very good at wriggling his controller, so swallowcides from stage never work on him, so I gotta take it to the air. I usually try to recover from very high to avoid possible edgeguarding, so if he tries to interrupt and I manage to swallowcide, he can easily wriggle free and if he plays GW (one of his three characters), can jump and sweetspot the ledge with ease and then edgeguard me. If I were to star shot him under dreamland instead, I could easily recover back to stage and he would get stuck under dreamland. Star shot is very sitational, but against Foxes and Falco's, when you have only 1 stock and they have 2, would you like to risk your only stock by swallowciding when you have no better option? I don't think so. But you could be mean and try to swallowcide, then instead of dropping down, star shot them under dreamland and recover back without much worry of survival when they are left with no means of recovering. Star shot only has it's uses when shooting under the stage like Dreamland or Battlefield, otherwise it's useless as a swallowcide tactic. And what I did was try to swallowcide on FoD to prove my point that GW can survive swallowcide and that shooting him under dreamland might be better option than swallowciding on dreamland, not that star shot is a better option generally.

And since I main Kirby, how I'm supposed to try and fool my friend on the edge when using Kirby? It doesn't work. You can't just say that "hey, come to the edge and I promise I won't swallowcide or suicide throw you". :/ Anyone who knows kirby suicides with swallow/throws doesn't want to go that near him when Kirby is near the ledge.
 

King Kirby 90

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DeathscytheHello said:
Also, concerning when you got to do it, there are certain places that won't work. Fountain of Dreams is one of them. Although Kirby's got a lot for vert, he doesn't have that much vert. Another place to watch out for is Final D. You basically sweetspot the edge, but you'll survive unless you swallowcided a one-framer. I have never been able to pull of the vert needed on a one-framer; it just may be me, but I don't think it is possible to get the one-framer on Final D.
A few corrections for your good guide. It is possible to survive the Suicide-Cancel on Fountain of Dreams against opponents with a lot of frames. And I've pulled out the Suicide-Cancel against Pikachu who is one of the 1-Framers and got back to the edge on Final Destination. I think you should add that you have more frames to survive when you swallow your opponent on the stage than in the air. You can Suicide-Cancel all 0-Framers except for Pichu (I never got it, so I think it doesn't work, but I'm not sure so it would be nice if someone would test it out with an Action Replay) if you swallowed them on the stage.
 

linkapprentice

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Just recently someone who came around was playing Kirby and I was Fox and when he did the 'swallowcide' on my Fox I cracked up completely as it looked so funny but very annoying at the same time. I called it cheap at the time as it didn't require much skill at all lol. So for Kirby players who want to do the swallowcide (from a fox/falcon perspective) you have to be aware that the opponent can and will always fall down behind you at the edge and counter with an up b or hang onto the ledge then do a attack recovery from ledge. So if you see them trying to feint you into doing the swallowcide attack, always be cautious and try to do the move when they least expect it (but most of the time the other opponent will learn not to stray too close to the edge when playing against a good kirby player). As another note: never do it against link, samus, falco, or any character who has projectiles.
 

Samochan

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linkapprentice said:
Just recently someone who came around was playing Kirby and I was Fox and when he did the 'swallowcide' on my Fox I cracked up completely as it looked so funny but very annoying at the same time. I called it cheap at the time as it didn't require much skill at all lol. So for Kirby players who want to do the swallowcide (from a fox/falcon perspective) you have to be aware that the opponent can and will always fall down behind you at the edge and counter with an up b or hang onto the ledge then do a attack recovery from ledge. So if you see them trying to feint you into doing the swallowcide attack, always be cautious and try to do the move when they least expect it (but most of the time the other opponent will learn not to stray too close to the edge when playing against a good kirby player). As another note: never do it against link, samus, falco, or any character who has projectiles.
Fall down behind? Nah, swallowcides can be done any time near the ledge, from any direction. And even if the opponent is someone like my friend, who frequently plays my Kirby, there are many possibilities at swallowcide, but since he's experienced, he doesn't fell for those often. And you can't goad Kirby off the ledge with projectiles, since most of them can just be crouched or too slow to be uneffectively shielded. Swallowcide can be used for every character at any time, doesn't matter if the character has projectiles or not. Non-experienced players always attack with a ground attack but get swallowed. Experienced players attack impulsively from the air or with projectiles, because they know Kirby can always stop swallowing so they act fast. Falco's lasers don't even phaze kirby and Falco is nice to swallow due to his type of edgeguarding with not much range on the edge. Samus is also very yummy to swallow due to her recovery, being a 6 framer and kirby's inability to finish her off. And you don't feint swallowcides, you play like you normally would and out of the blue, bam! Swallowcide. And it does require skill to mindgame your opponent so that you can swallow them and requires even more skill to survive from swallowing one framers. :psycho:
 

DeathscytheHello

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Samochan said:
And since I main Kirby, how I'm supposed to try and fool my friend on the edge when using Kirby? It doesn't work. You can't just say that "hey, come to the edge and I promise I won't swallowcide or suicide throw you". :/ Anyone who knows kirby suicides with swallow/throws doesn't want to go that near him when Kirby is near the ledge.
OK, so they don't come to the edge? Good. You know why? Whoever's not near the edge can't possibly edgeguard you. Unless they do move towards the edge when you're trying to recover. But then they're near the edge, ready to be swallowcided. See how that works?

Oh, this brings up another thing. The ultimate in cheapness of Kirby stuff; swallowcide to suicide. If you're up a life when you complete the swallowcide, yet you're at high damage, you may want to try this tactic. Basically, all that you do is recover and set up an up-throw suicide (a flawless way that I've found is running toward the edge, spot dodge, then roll to the edge. Don't know why that works, but just rolling toward the edge doesn't always work for me, anyway), let them come near you, then grab when you can (spot dodge if necessary) and up throw. If successful, you'll be up one life and at zero percent. Sweet deal, eh?

King Kirby, as for your stuff, I did try the FoD stuff, and I can confirm that now, so I will add that in with credit to you. However, the rest of it I'll have to look at. Basically, for everything that I've tried for it hasn't been panning out. Though I did find something interesting with Pikachu....

While trying to survive on Final D against Pikachu (I never did make it to the edge, anyway), I put it on 2x speed just for kicks. I did the swallowcide, then I actually got the initial surviving jump in. After being surprised that I actually did that at 2x speed, I noticed the inconsistancy...

Logically speaking, if Pikachu were to be survivable with 1 frame at 60 frames per second, how did I survive it at all with the speed doubled? It doesn't make sense to me... anyone got an explanation?
 

Samochan

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OK, so they don't come to the edge? Good. You know why? Whoever's not near the edge can't possibly edgeguard you. Unless they do move towards the edge when you're trying to recover. But then they're near the edge, ready to be swallowcided. See how that works?
As if he has to phear the swallowcide with Peach, GW and Samus... They can edgeguard just fine. GW comes in and parachutes or dairs, so swallow doesn't hit or I don't even have time to get out of the stun. Peach can just spam turnips when far away and when close, float and aerial or just avoid then swallowcide from the edge. Samus can spam missiles, dair stuff, edgeguard ect. Many characters have more range than swallowcide does and when you attack from the air (which is ridiculously easy), you can avoid swallowcide too easily. Kirby can't just start swallowciding when they're edgeguarding. If you think so, you're sadly mistaken. Every character has the option to avoid swallowcide all together and that's rolling/wavedashing backwards. Easy as that. And many have more range than swallowcide or just other options to avoid it.
 

DeathscytheHello

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OK. Here's what we have. First, you say...

Samochan said:
You can't just say that "hey, come to the edge and I promise I won't swallowcide or suicide throw you". :/ Anyone who knows kirby suicides with swallow/throws doesn't want to go that near him when Kirby is near the ledge.
Then you say...

Samochan said:
As if he has to phear the swallowcide with Peach, GW and Samus... They can edgeguard just fine.
So... what are you really trying to get to? Are your opponents at the edge or not?
 

Samochan

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"That near" as in, not in the range of swallowcide but in the range of proper edgeguard. You just have to time it right and you can even get an fsmash in with Falco before you can swallowcide him. :/ In any case, it's not a walk in the park to swallowcide someone who's a bit experienced in Kirby matchup. It's a bit easier against characters with no projectiles, range or somehow cannot kick kirby futher without being swallowed, but as I stated before, with proper timing, you can easily swat kirby away like a fly or plain avoid it with simple roll.
 

Samochan

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Sorry for the double post, but the edit button doesn't work for me for some reason, doesn't load as the rest of the forum does... >_<

To add to my earlier post, Kirby's swallow doesn't have nearly as much "hitbox" and priority on the air as it does on ground. You can easily hit kirby with Samus fsmash on air or anything else, but no ground attack gets past kirby's swallow when you use it on stage, be it Marth's fsmash or Falco's fsmash.
 

DeathscytheHello

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OK. Now we're on the same page here.

Basically, as I said earlier, your intuition is your best bet. Just fight normally and have your swallowcide as an ace up the sleeve. They have to present the opprotunity; tricking them into doing so is a part of the game. You're not going to swallowcide every time on the edge; you're lucky if you even get a swallowcide done in a match.

Again, this "guide" is just meant to shut up all the stupid "Cheap Kirby thing" threads. It does not contain any expert advice; as the title says, it's what you should already know about the swallowcide. If you didn't know about it, then it's time to learn.
 

Buttcrust

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As if he has to phear the swallowcide with Peach, GW and Samus... They can edgeguard just fine. GW comes in and parachutes or dairs, so swallow doesn't hit or I don't even have time to get out of the stun. Peach can just spam turnips when far away and when close, float and aerial or just avoid then swallowcide from the edge. Samus can spam missiles, dair stuff, edgeguard ect. Many characters have more range than swallowcide does and when you attack from the air (which is ridiculously easy), you can avoid swallowcide too easily. Kirby can't just start swallowciding when they're edgeguarding. If you think so, you're sadly mistaken. Every character has the option to avoid swallowcide all together and that's rolling/wavedashing backwards. Easy as that. And many have more range than swallowcide or just other options to avoid it.
Well, you shouldn't be trying to swallowcide every time. You can only do it when the oppurtunity presents itself... like DSH has said. And, I've seen DSH swallowcide Shiek from behind the fountain on FoD (the little spout that raises the platform) while Kirby was off the stage.

I've had some wierd experiences swallowcideing Dr. Mario. I was on FD and survived an arial swallowcide. Then I went to do it again (I can't remember if this was arial or from the ground) we died at the same time. We were both on our last stock so we went to SD. I've seen this happen before with a Dr. Mario on Termina also.

Is it possible that the frame data has been altered slightly, maybe in newer versions or by wiggling inside Kirby? I don't know any other explaination for this...
 

Samochan

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Well, you shouldn't be trying to swallowcide every time. You can only do it when the oppurtunity presents itself... like DSH has said. And, I've seen DSH swallowcide Shiek from behind the fountain on FoD (the little spout that raises the platform) while Kirby was off the stage.
Not saying I do, but this thread was about swallowcides, so I did not include anything else on my posts.

I've had somewhat similar experience in swallowcides and suicides myself. Just some time ago my friend uthrowed me from the cloud at Yoshi's story. I was Peach. And for some reason, it went into sudden death, when Kirby is supposed to die before the victim. And then there was this one case, where he swallocided my kirby and I died before him, and he did it from the air. There's not supposed to be any extra frames for 0-framer swallowcide when off-stage swallowed, but my best guess is that I just managed to wriggle out for some odd reason. I couldn't have considering the circumstances and I'm not that good at wriggling either.
 

the CRAB

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i one of my less risky tactics was to do it off the edge as a (for lack of a better term) pre-edgeguard. knock them off the stage with an f-tilt or what have you, and catch them as they're trying to come back in. it works great on marth bc it eliminates the forward-b recovery bc you'll usually drop him too low for the dolphin slash to get him back. comments? elaboration on effectiveness? decent? stupid?
 

Buttcrust

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How do you not get hit before it? Especially from Marth? I've tried that bunches of times and it only gets me hit or killed. I don't like it.
 

Hitokiri Battousai

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(First Official Post ^^) Since Smash came out for the 64 and when it was released for the GC, I was and still am a big fan of Kirby. I only played the original NES title that Kirby debuted in but thats semi-unrelated... I've found that 'Swallowcide' is Kirby's best trick. Honestly I find it more amusing than anything and I've coined it myself as being 'Kamikaze Kirby' or 'Suicide Bomber Kirby.' Its tricky to pull off but when you can there's nothing more rewarding to a Kirby player than watching your opponent die while you float back up from the fall. Honestly though, if Kirby's moves were stronger in melee he'd be more enjoyable to play. I just hate getting ***** by Falco and Luigi. I'm not the greatest player but I find it impossible to reign the victor in a melee unless I dodge the other players during the match and just get in cheap shots. Going head to head with one of them sends Kirby flying across the stage...
 

t!MmY

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I only played the original NES title that Kirby debuted in...
Kirby debuted in Kirby's Dreamland for the Game Boy. Just for fun factoid-related blather, he was white in that game and couldn't Copy. Kirby's Adventure (NES) was a much better version of the game, as Sword Kirby, Beam Kirby, et cetera, made the game that much more fun.
 

the CRAB

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How do you not get hit before it? Especially from Marth? I've tried that bunches of times and it only gets me hit or killed. I don't like it.

really? it's never failed me against a marth. try coming at him from slightly above. if you're below him, he'll slap you every time.
 

t!MmY

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It's plausible (Swallowcide vs a recovering Marth), but jumping out with an aerial attack is faster and less risky. But Swallowcide is that much cooler. :cool:
 

cityondown114

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You should probably also mention the little glitch when playing on final destination. When fighting a fast faller Kirby can hang on the edge, drop down just a little bit, and suck below the stage. This will actually pull whoever you're fighting through the stage. The glitch works the best with Marth, Fox, and Roy. I was successfully able to pull Marth COMPLETELY through the stage to finish him off with the Kirbicide. What is also very nice (that I have been noticing), when a player is caught in Kirby and hits a few buttons right after being sucked up he automatically gets out before the bottom. Its extremely useful because it gives you much more frames to recover.
 

snoblo

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this is my favorite move with kirby =D. This is banned in tourneys though, isnt it?
 

cityondown114

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Atlanta, GA
i think it is pretty amazing that kirby recovers ALL his jumps after performing a successful kirbicide. Its actually quite beautiful to see the look on your opponents face as you glide back up to the platform. Another useful trick is sucking up Ice Climbers. Haha...you take nana off the edge and just take her down and then you immediately seriously disabled your opponent. they get quite angry as well.
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
Another useful trick is sucking up Ice Climbers. Haha...you take nana off the edge and just take her down and then you immediately seriously disabled your opponent.
Too bad the climbers SD on the same frame as Kirby. I don't usually think it's worth while to give up a stock in exchange for the CPU Climber. She's pretty easy to gimp as it is.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
sorry i'm really confused...landing kirbycides on the stage? i just can't see how you could possibly get off the ledge before they break out.

I assume that break out time is based on damage like with throws..

but even so...i can't picture you taking more than two steps if the opponent goes ballistic with the button mashing...

edit:

that 100 dollar money match pichu vs kirby was the most enjoyable thing i've watched in a while..i also find i enjoy watching kirby matches of better players taking on worse players.

like i was watching one of nashun's matches and it was quite obvious he was the more skilled player..he still lost:p but that's what you get when you play kirby vs top gunz:)

even so i was impressed..made me want to learn kirby
 
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