Social Swaggin' On 'Em - The Luigi Thread

[HeavenWolfHD]

up-b now functions like Brawl again

what ? How it was in Brawl ?

 

[AirShad]

I honestly think he would be in a decent spot with solid buffs and nerfs if:

1. His grab was not a tether - grabs have already been nerfed for all characters... why punish Luigi even more???

and

2. His cyclone had to be charged on the ground like in melee - this would eliminate the spamming of down be off stage for gimps.

Sakurai will never change the former since it has already been shown off and implemented so Luigi will forever have a tether grab in SSBU and future games unfortunately.

 

[Luigifan18]

Why does everyone hate tether grabs so much, anyway? Sure, you're more open if you miss, but you can connect from further away. It's a basic range/frame data trade-off, except since a tether grab is a grab, the worse frame data becomes completely irrelevant if the grab connects (since the grab-whiff animation is skipped and the characters transition into the grabbing/grabbed state).

 

[AirShad]

Why does everyone hate tether grabs so much, anyway? Sure, you're more open if you miss, but you can connect from further away. It's a basic range/frame data trade-off, except since a tether grab is a grab, the worse frame data becomes completely irrelevant if the grab connects (since the grab-whiff animation is skipped and the characters transition into the grabbing/grabbed state).

It’s just slower that’s why they’re bad... the game is about speed and whenever you you are slower you are at a disadvantage. It’s just a fact... there’s no character in the game without a tether whom I would say “I wish they had one!” Luigi had a quick reliable grab... in every installment of smash.

I guess I dont really hate tethers... just the fact that Luigi has one.

 

[Luigifan18]

It’s just slower that’s why they’re bad... the game is about speed and whenever you you are slower you are at a disadvantage. It’s just a fact... there’s no character in the game without a tether whom I would say “I wish they had one!” Luigi had a quick reliable grab... in every installment of smash.

I guess I dont really hate tethers... just the fact that Luigi has one.

Yeah, but your grab works from farther away, and the startup isn't substantially worse.

 

[AirShad]

Yeah, but your grab works from farther away, and the startup isn't substantially worse.

I don’t know what you want me to say... it’s just a fact that tether grabs are not as good as regular grabs. Luigi’s epecially since he can’t tether the ledge.

 

[Luigifan18]

I don’t know what you want me to say... it’s just a fact that tether grabs are not as good as regular grabs. Luigi’s epecially since he can’t tether the ledge.

Again, it's a trade-off between range and speed. How much range would be needed for people to consider the trade-off worth it?

 

[HotelSoapy!]

I don’t know what you want me to say... it’s just a fact that tether grabs are not as good as regular grabs. Luigi’s epecially since he can’t tether the ledge.

This is the only thing I dislike about it. Maybe in the final build they changed it or in a update in the future? Elegant said he was going to find a way to make back on stage easier, so maybe all the pros will figure it out when the game releases.

 

[SwagGuy99]

what ? How it was in Brawl ?

Less lag went higher. I think it was more powerful in Brawl too but I'll take what I can get.

I would agree if his up-b wasn't nerfed but the extra recovery would have helped him a lot and if his grab was less laggy like everyone else's, fireballs would be a good way for him to get a quick grab. But it doesn't recover and has a ton of lag so it went from possible slight buff to huge nerf.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

The thing with tether grabs is that they tend to be good in frame trap situations, which the Links tend to be good at. When someone shields to deal with projectiles, you can have the grab ready to go. But does Luigi have that ability? He has a fireball, but I don't know if he can force shield instead of a jump or retreat. Maybe with conditioning. I don't know, just something to think about.

 

[meleebrawler]

The thing with tether grabs is that they tend to be good in frame trap situations, which the Links tend to be good at. When someone shields to deal with projectiles, you can have the grab ready to go. But does Luigi have that ability? He has a fireball, but I don't know if he can force shield instead of a jump or retreat. Maybe with conditioning. I don't know, just something to think about.

Well, it can get him shield grabs that he normally would have missed due to his trction.

I don't really understand why this grab is that important in the grand scheme. People here going on about it as if that's the only way for him to get good damage, when in fact he has many non-grab combo starters which are just as potent. The grab combo meta of 4 is by and large dead and buried, and chances are Incineroar is the only one who will have a comparable performance with it due to being designed around grabs.

 

[CrimsonStarfall]

Because I have not yet seen anybody post about it yet, out of my watching footage and comparing frame data/damage/etc Luigi's damage output has been slightly nerfed on his normals such as jab going from 10% total to 8%

It's not a substantial nerf, but a nerf none the less. Keep in mind though that in a 1v1 scene with the 1.2x damage output, his overall damage will be over Smash 4 levels

Other than that, all of his aerials (Like everyone else) got a landing lag reduction, and these are the frames I counted. (Could be off/changed over time of course)
Nair: 14 -> 8 frames
Fair: 22 -> 14 frames
Bair: 16 -> 10 frames
Uair: 12 -> 7 frames
Dair: 20 -> 17 frames

This to me tells me that he'll especially excel in 1v1s if he can get something started with a grab/perhaps a Utilt mixup/On-stage Dair with his potential for combos being better than before and perhaps even allowing him to get Dthrow(or whatever starts it) - Dair - Nair - Dair - Nair/Uair - Up B on more of the cast due to both reduced landing lag as well as reduced jumpsquat.

Overall: Drastically better on the stage due to the mechanics and changes, but a lot worse off stage due to the nerfs to cyclone (If not reverted to normal)

 

[GamerGuy09]

Elegant is currently analyzing Luigi.

It's not all doom and gloom! His Dash Attack got buffed and it seems like his Down-B has a lot of invincibility frames on startup. Potentially making it better than Nair as a combo breaker!

 

[HeavenWolfHD]

Can someone resume what Elegant said in general ?
I didn't watch it entirely rn

 

[Kierdar]

Luigi's grab is now a tether, which might be a major nerf, it also can't grab the edge.

 

[SwagGuy99]

At this point, I can't tell whether he's been buffed or nerfed. He received a lot of minor buffs that will help him in the long run and he's faster overall. But his recovery is Melee levels of bad now which means he will be much less of a threat off stage as he was in Brawl (Cyclone launched opponents out horizontally with a lot of hitstun which gave it gimp potential; f-air, d-air, and b-air were good at knocking opponents away from the ledge) and Smash 4 (Cyclone launched opponents down with a lot of hitstun, similarly to Mario's in Smash 64; b-air and fair were still really good and d-air was more reliable as a spike despite being weaker). Grab may have been buffed on the ground being one of the safest tether grabs but in the air it is useless due to it's atrocious landing lag. Cyclone and side b were also nerfed but Cyclone now kills and has invincibility. Most of Luigi's other normals seem unchanged or buffed. It seems like it could go either way for him.

 

[meleebrawler]

Luigi's grab is now a tether, which might be a major nerf, it also can't grab the edge.

https://twitter.com/SSS_SSB/status/1068232198749343744

You can dump it on someone's head to combo off of it. It doesn't work like other tethers.

 

[Kierdar]

https://twitter.com/SSS_SSB/status/1068232198749343744

You can dump it on someone's head to combo off of it. It doesn't work like other tethers.

Wow that is fast, almost like a normal grab.

 

[MERPIS]

I was not joking when I said he was a monster on stage. This is a true combo if you follow DI pic.twitter.com/B34kmYwLaD

— Dakpo (@TheDakpo) December 2, 2018

Another one.
And another one.

 

[MajorXMidge]

I was not joking when I said he was a monster on stage. This is a true combo if you follow DI pic.twitter.com/B34kmYwLaD

— Dakpo (@TheDakpo) December 2, 2018

Another one.
And another one.

Oh yea, I'm liking this

 

[MERPIS]

Oh yea, I'm liking this

congrats I'm one of you beasts now

 

[AirShad]

Wow it actually seems much faster than previous videos. Still waiting to test myself. Will still miss his spinning back throw though :D

 

[MERPIS]

Could we potentially see a top tier luggy again folks? He's basically pre patch smash 4 luggy with some even stupider stuff.

 

[HeavenWolfHD]

No High tier I think. His recovery will be hard

 

[MERPIS]

No High tier I think. His recovery will be hard

you could say the same about ike ~

 

[HotelSoapy!]

I am struggling against Simon.

 

[MrDrProfessor]

I am struggling against Simon.

Yeah he struggles against him. Projectiles are not Luigi's friend. Just gotta stay calm and only go in when you can.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Yeah he struggles against him. Projectiles are not Luigi's friend. Just gotta stay calm and only go in when you can.

Fireballs are your best friend in these cases if they aren't your best friend in general. They are a great neutral tool and they can stop some projectiles like Link's arrows or Dr. Mario's pills. Wolf's lasers are not one of these. Wolf is a hard matchup for Luigi until he gets in and I would argue it's one of his worst (right now until we find a broken 0 to death of course).

 

[Anacybele]

I love Luigi's new Poltergust grabbing and throwing! That is so fun. XD Though I do also miss that spinny back throw he always had before, this DOES make him even more different than Mario than he was previously. And more use of the Poltergust is always neat. :3

Glad I'm always gonna be a Luigi main along with an Ike main!

 

[AirShad]

Wish

I love Luigi's new Poltergust grabbing and throwing! That is so fun. XD Though I do also miss that spinny back throw he always had before, this DOES make him even more different than Mario than he was previously. And more use of the Poltergust is always neat. :3

Glad I'm always gonna be a Luigi main along with an Ike main!

I agree... I'm going to miss his spinny mario 64 back throw... Mario, Doc, and Wario still have it :'[

 

[RobC]

That Pop sound effect on his throws just makes killing with back throw even more disrespectful.

 

[Yonder]

Sup guys, Luigi boards moderator here. Looks like a patch came out that affected Luigi. Someone is welcome to make a thread discussing these changes, if there is enough to generate reasonable discussion.

 

[DaUsername]

I agree... I'm going to miss his spinny mario 64 back throw... Mario, Doc, and Wario still have it :'[

Doc's b-throw was actually changed, it's one of the few moveset changes he got.

Sup guys, Luigi boards moderator here. Looks like a patch came out that affected Luigi. Someone is welcome to make a thread discussing these changes, if there is enough to generate reasonable discussion.

I hope we get good updates this time!

 

[CrimsonStarfall]

So far out of the testing that's been done, there haven't been too many touches to Luigi. The only confirmed update there's been on him is that he has a different expression on the last pose of his Up Taunt with his eyes open instead of closed (Making it like Smash 4's version). Others have said that the grab now matches the plunger better and that cyclone is easier to mash (still doesn't rise much). However, take the final two with a major dose of salt since they haven't been confirmed.

He's still busted as all hell in the combo department.

 

[Anacybele]

Oh good, sounds like Luigi didn't get slammed with the nerf hammer this time like in Smash 4. I was sad at that. I mean, maybe a nerf WAS necessary at that time, but certainly not to that extent.

 

[InfernoCA]

Will Luigi get buffed?
Any possible moveset changes?
Any new alt colors/costumes?
Will they bring back this animation?
Is Luigi number 1?
Discuss here.

I think that they will not buff him. I am more afraid that they will even nerf his downthrow zerotodeath combo.

 

[CBO0tz]

I was watching Brian_F play Luigi earlier. Luigi can actually do a pretty big dair combo and get big damage off it. He can also dair into Up-B sweetspot if done properly. All in all I'd say he's looking very good!

 

[chilob]

I don't think Luigi is going to return guys.

I think Luigi is just gonna have a more combo heavy playstyle instead of gimp based like sm4sh and brawl

 

[CBO0tz]

They definitely gave Luigi a solid plan with his updated moveset.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Well I'm preparing myself for Luigi's combos to be destroyed in tonights update along with other various changes that make him unplayable.




Jokes aside, I hope his down throw isn't nerfed. Anyways, the general consensus seems to be that Luigi is mid high tier at best but I personally think he's being underrated by most people still. If anyone has any ideas on how Luigi is, I wouldn't mind hearing them.