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Surviving Mortal Damage: A Guide to PK Thunder Recovery Techs and Quirks

Earthbound360

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So I'm sure we all know how PKT and PKT2 work on a basic level at this point. You press UpB, you control some thunder, hit yourself with it to propel yourself a good distance, don't let the thunder get eaten. But PKT and PKT2 have some... oddities in this game. I'm here to explain them and how they work.

PKT = PK Thunder
PKT2 = PK Thunder 2, Ness' recovery move when you direct PKT into himself

Also, here's a link to the guide in the Guides section of Smashboards. You can rate and comment there if you wish:
http://smashboards.com/guides/surviving-mortal-damage.151/

PKT2 Wall Ride

Only occurs on the left wall of the stage. Ness will alter the direction of PKT2 and slide up the wall. To perform this, you must PKT2 into the wall at an angle that’s relatively parallel to the wall.



PKT2 Wall Bounce

Can occur on both sides of the stage. However, on the right side of the stage, coming into contact with a wall during PKT2 will ALWAYS result in a wall bounce, no matter the angle. A wall bounce sends Ness flying backwards, ends PKT2, and puts him in a helpless state shortly afterwards. If you wish to perform a wall bounce on the left side of the stage, you must hit the wall at a VERY sharp angle, colliding with it almost perpendicularly.

In some cases, you can even use the bounce to recover, as displayed here:



Bounce Recovery

Shortly after doing a wall bounce, Ness is allowed to reuse PKT ONE time, giving him a second shot at recovery. Make sure you do this DURING the bounce animation, otherwise you will go helpless. Also, Ness retains momentum from the bounce when performing the second PKT, so watch how you aim PKT carefully. Here’s how to do a basic bounce recovery:


Here’s a video demonstrating it on the left side of the stage (notice how much steeper the angle must be to get the bounce):



Extending Your Recovery With a PKT2 Bounce

In some situations, a single PKT2 will not get you back to the stage due to sheer distance. In these situations, you should consider using the Bounce Recovery to your advantage if possible. Instead of just going right for the ledge (that you can't reach) with a single PKT2, close some of the distance with your first PKT2, hit the wall, then use the second PKT2 to make it back. This can be a life saver!

Here's a real match I was playing with my friend in which I do just that:


I would have lost the match if I had not used the Bounce Recovery extension. A single PKT2 would not have made it back to the ledge from that distance. Just remember that this will only work to your advantage on the right side of the stage.


PKT2 Wall Ricochet

Only occurs on the left wall of the stage. Ness will hit the wall, and continue PKT2 in the opposite horizontal direction. No true practical use for recovery, avoid at all costs. In order to do this, you must hit the wall at an angle between the wall ride angle (parallel) and the wall bounce angle (perpendicular).



General tips for PKT2 and walls

For future knowledge, left walls =/= right walls. I don’t know why it’s like this, it was like this in Brawl too, but it is what it is. They just behave differently. Keep this in mind when recovering.

When recovering on the left side of the stage, attempt to go for the wall rides for a safe and reliable recovery. If you absolutely MUST use a wall bounce, go straight into the wall, you can’t be in between here.

As for the right side wall, if you cannot aim directly for the ledge to recover, be prepared to make a wall bounce recovery, as there is no wall riding on the right side. I highly recommend AGAINST using wall bouncing unless you really need to. It can be unreliable at times, and why not get back to the stage ASAP anyways?

When recovering on the right side, also anticipate an unintentional wall bounce also. Be ready to do a second PKT. There have been situations where I thought I would grab the ledge, but got a wall bounce instead (and died).


Full Range PKT2

Ness’ PKT2 trajectory is NOT affected by the direction that PKT travels. It is only affected by where it makes contact on Ness’ body. For example, PKT can be traveling sideways, but if it touches Ness’ feet, it will still send up upwards.


PKT Sweetspot

Normally, a raw hit of PKT will do 8% damage and disappear upon contact. In Smash 4, PKT will pass through opponents early when it comes out. It will do 9% as opposed to 8% and still be usable for recovery. The range for the sweetspot is actually somewhat large. The range can be seen here:


Thanks to this buff, getting gimped by having the PKT eaten has never been more difficult for our opponents. Strangely enough, it now makes it safer in some situations to get CLOSER to the opponent when attempting to recover with PKT2.


PKT2 Sweetspot

The sweetspot of PKT2 does 25% damage and has a LOT of knockback and priority. The sweetspot is during the earliest part of PKT2 (about the first half). Ness is also fully invincible during this time, so don’t be afraid to challenge other attacks head on during this time. After the sweetspot expires, PKT2 has much less knockback and does 21% instead. The range of the sweetspot on PKT2 is displayed here:



Hitting Things with PKT2

Hitting anything (opponents, projectiles, stage obstacles, etc.) with PKT2 will cut your travel distance by a significant amount. For the sake of making it back to the stage, try to avoid making contact with anything.


PKT Ledge Snap

Most UpB moves automatically grab the ledge, even if the trajectory would have caused the player to pass it. But the same is not true for double jumps. You’ll rise right over the edge if you double jump into it.

However, if as Ness you want to double jump into a ledge and not rise past it, you can. All you have to do is use PKT right under the ledge as you jump into it. Use this to avoid any potentially dangerous on-stage situations.



And that wraps it up for all of the useful recovery techs worth noting. Some of it's a bit risky, but it can literally save your life. Remember, it takes guts to survive mortal damage!
 
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foppy

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i used to think that the pkt2 bounce recovery didn't work at all on the left side. didn't know that the angle had to be steeper
 

neomadgic

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Thanks EB360, you always seem to make very good ness videos.

Adding onto the wall bounce, if you ever feel like you won't make the ledge, try to aim for the wall, so you can get a second pkt in.
 

yoshi8984

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IMO bouncing off the right wall of a stage is only useful if your first PKT2 won't reach the stage/ledge otherwise.

Anyways, question; this may be a bit difficult to get a video of, but let's say you had Tap Jump Off, and...

You're recovering, but you decide to PKT2 before Double Jumping. You have to do the wall bounce to recover though (so for the sake of convenience, say the right side). You get the first PKT2 and rebound, but then your 2nd one is interrupted as you PKT2 (like with a disjointed hitbox or something). Then you decide to Double Jump (it may or may not be enough to get back onstage).

If you were to PKT2 again in that scenario (after the Double Jump) and hit the wall, would you be able to do another set of PKT2s? o.o
 

neomadgic

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IMO bouncing off the right wall of a stage is only useful if your first PKT2 won't reach the stage/ledge otherwise.

Anyways, question; this may be a bit difficult to get a video of, but let's say you had Tap Jump Off, and...

You're recovering, but you decide to PKT2 before Double Jumping. You have to do the wall bounce to recover though (so for the sake of convenience, say the right side). You get the first PKT2 and rebound, but then your 2nd one is interrupted as you PKT2 (like with a disjointed hitbox or something). Then you decide to Double Jump (it may or may not be enough to get back onstage).

If you were to PKT2 again in that scenario (after the Double Jump) and hit the wall, would you be able to do another set of PKT2s? o.o
I'm trying to understand your question, but I'm a lil confused. So I'll try to answer what I think you're trying to ask.

So let's say you pkt2 into the wall... You won't be able to use a second jump because you will be in free fall.


But let's say you pkt2 into the wall and you get hit by an attack. In theory, you can you can probably pkt2 into wall, and get a 2nd one off. But I haven't tested this yet, I'll try to test it tonight.
 

Earthbound360

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He wants to know if the bounce is refreshed if you get hit out of a bounce recovery.
Not sure, I'll see if I can test it tonight.
 

Waael

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OMG EB360! You're still alive BUDDY!
 

Pazx

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This is a brilliant thread and the videos are great, I can't see myself using the PKT ledge snap but the rest of the information is golden to me (I've been teching the bounce from the stage because I thought that was necessary to get the second PKT out, it just means the stage eats it and I freefall to my doom most the time).
 

EarthBoundEnigma

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Is there any explanation why the different sides of the stage have different properties? Is it a bug?
 

Earthbound360

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Is there any explanation why the different sides of the stage have different properties? Is it a bug?
There's no real explanation, but we can only assume it's some kind of bug. I don't see why Nintendo would intentionally make move properties asymmetrical. As far as I know, no other move in the game currently changes properties depending on the X axis orientation.

Also, thanks for the support so far everyone. I'm a bit behind on the times and only recently caught wind of the new guides section of Smashboards. Think I should put this there?
 

Earthbound360

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IMO bouncing off the right wall of a stage is only useful if your first PKT2 won't reach the stage/ledge otherwise.

Anyways, question; this may be a bit difficult to get a video of, but let's say you had Tap Jump Off, and...

You're recovering, but you decide to PKT2 before Double Jumping. You have to do the wall bounce to recover though (so for the sake of convenience, say the right side). You get the first PKT2 and rebound, but then your 2nd one is interrupted as you PKT2 (like with a disjointed hitbox or something). Then you decide to Double Jump (it may or may not be enough to get back onstage).

If you were to PKT2 again in that scenario (after the Double Jump) and hit the wall, would you be able to do another set of PKT2s? o.o
Almost forgot about this question. The answer is yes; getting hit after using a wallbounce refreshes your ability to wall bounce.

So you can PKT2, bounce, PKT2 again, get hit, PKT2, bounce, and PKT2 again.
If you can't get back to the stage with 4 PKT2s then you deserve to die :p

Btw @Yink is there any way for me to just convert this thread into a guide? Or must I just resubmit it to the guides section?
 
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iode

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Awesome guide, thanks, I learned a lot, especially from the double jump ledge snap tech. I have a question regarding potential application though, considering most of these techs utilize PKT2, not vanilla PKT, how will PKT2 focused techs be applicable in a tournament setting, where custom moves aren't allowed?

Edit: Actually, I may confusing myself, is PKT2 just the part of the attack where Ness is hit by his PKT, not the second custom PKT, meaning this would be applicable to vanilla PKT? Terminology is killing me here.
 
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L9999

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I don't get why the walls have different properties, but thanks for the guide, it answers everything about recovery.
 

Earthbound360

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Made an update to the guide folks. I planned to do this a while ago, but my capture card broke, so I had to put a delay on that while I found another solution.

I changed the title of the guide to something more interesting, changed some formatting, and most importantly added a new video displaying bounce recovery extension.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't realize addinga guide to the guides section made another visible thread on the forum. Now it looks like I double posted. Sorry, I'm still a bit new to guides here on Smashboards >.<
If a mod wants to delete the thread or merge them or something, feel free to.
 
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MelchizedekVD

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Very helpful, thank you! I just wanted to clear up and make sure I understood these mechanics (especially with Lucas)
 

Mint (Aus)

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IMO bouncing off the right wall of a stage is only useful if your first PKT2 won't reach the stage/ledge otherwise.

Anyways, question; this may be a bit difficult to get a video of, but let's say you had Tap Jump Off, and...

You're recovering, but you decide to PKT2 before Double Jumping. You have to do the wall bounce to recover though (so for the sake of convenience, say the right side). You get the first PKT2 and rebound, but then your 2nd one is interrupted as you PKT2 (like with a disjointed hitbox or something). Then you decide to Double Jump (it may or may not be enough to get back onstage).

If you were to PKT2 again in that scenario (after the Double Jump) and hit the wall, would you be able to do another set of PKT2s? o.o
This is DEFINITELY Possible, after you get hit and put back into a state when you can move, you gain your PK Thunder back and the possibility of another PKT2 wallbounce, I have had this happen to me with a mario fireballing me off the edge off Onett omega and i had to recover and wall bounce NINE TIMES before i could get on stage, be careful with this so you do not get yourself into a situation like that, I've been practising as the annoying different sides give different things such as the bounce always working on the right side but being really 10x more annoying on the left. either way Happy Smashing! :)
 

Mint (Aus)

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Pleasure is all mine. But do note that Lucas does NOT ricochet. Lucky him :p
THIS IS WHY ITS SO MUCH EASIER WITH LUCAS FFS *facepalms* been having to practice my ass off just to learn ness' different properties and lucas' on the side
 

KingNemba

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I know this may not be the usual idea of 'recovery' but being above stage, trying to gain ground (esp. Against a good juggler) I feel this tactic can be considered a type of PKT 'recovery.' As such, PKT2 ness straight down vertically has proven very useful for me. PKT2 into the ground forces opponent to want to stay clear (potential hit), gets you grounded, and can be done even at small angles, not just straight down.

Downside, SOMETIMES there is a minute bounce (rarely with practice). Anyone else do this? I use it very frequently in matches with great results both offensively and defensively.

To me it seems like everyone may know this but brought it up in case its not.
 
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