Supposed "lack" of Neutral

[BlackCephie]

So one of the most common things I see people saying, especially in tournament commentary, is that Piranha Plant is bad because of his "lack" of neutral. Its annoying to hear because these people clearly dont understand his design philosophy, and its even more annoying that many plant users I see fail to demonstrate his power. Let me break this down. ::ahem::

I think the common misconception is that if a character doesnt have an abusable aerial or free buttons, then that character has no neutral and is therefore bad. No, plant does not have those things. What plant does have is poison cloud, and THAT is the foundation of his neutral.

You dont use poison cloud right on top of your opponent because it is punishable at that range. What you DO do is spit it out at a distance, to trap landing opponents, or those hanging on the ledge. Spitting out poison cloud at a good distance away means that your opponent cannot simply run through it and punish you during the recovery frames. At this point, a ground approach is a bad idea because plant has many ways to trap, stall or damage you in the cloud. So what are the options?

Lets put projectiles, reflectors or absorption aside for a second. Your opponent will either stay where they are, which is fine because you get free stage control. If they jump, that is exactly where plant wants you. Its true, his aerials are not good as approach options. They ARE however very good as anti-airs, along with MANY other tools in his kit. YOU SHOULD GET FREE DAMAGE IF YOUR OPPONENT JUMPS OVER POISON. trying to run or roll through it shouls also get you a free punish. If you didnt get this by now, plant is exceptionally good at anti-airing and baiting out air dodges.

If your opponent is already in the air, and their aerials are strong and you dont feel safe trying to intercept, USE POISON TO COVER THEIR LANDINGS. This is one of plants best strategies and once again should net you a free punish and keep you at advantage.

I wont even go into all the other things you should do that I see a lot of new plant players not doing (such as using down b to get free punishes on projectiles, aerials and all sorts of other kinds of pressure).

As for projectiles, reflectors, pocket, etc. So what. You just made them react, good. Punish with down b anyways. Or just go into neutral b from the air.

TL:DR - Plant's neutral IS his poison cloud, coupled with the other options in his kit that supplement it. Especially neutral b. His strength lies in his ability to push opponents to the ledge, then keep them there until they die.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Massive per to all of this. Piranha Plant has a lot of weird moves that need to be learned, and Poison Breath is no exception.

It's the best way to let your opponent know you read them without them actually knowing.

 

[AfroGamerNinja]

So, Plant should charge his cloud when the match starts, right?

 

[BlackCephie]

So, Plant should charge his cloud when the match starts, right?

Plant should be ready to use cloud whenever

 

[JommaBrown]

But also don’t put yourself in a bad place by thinking you can only use poison at full charge. I tend to play keep away at the start of a match and charge it up, but if you can’t get any room to breathe, even uncharged poison can fill the role for you. It’s smaller but still has decent damage output and blocks off a portion of the stage.

 

[BlackCephie]

But also don’t put yourself in a bad place by thinking you can only use poison at full charge. I tend to play keep away at the start of a match and charge it up, but if you can’t get any room to breathe, even uncharged poison can fill the role for you. It’s smaller but still has decent damage output and blocks off a portion of the stage.

I absolutely agree. Mix it up. Also I should stress that, in addition to p. Cloud, his other b moves basically fully comprise his neutral. His down b and neutral b, when mixed up between each other, are extremely effective. When I started to understand this, I started seeing that many matchups that i previously considered bad for plant actually turn out to be not bad at all. Link is an example. At first I felt suffocated by his zoning. Then I started using plant down b profusely, and was landing hit after hit. Then when they started looking out for it more, i mixed in more ptooie, sometimes letting it cancel, back into down b. Sometimes letting it rip immediately, sometimes letting it bob up and down a few times. Tgen poison cloud. Then another down b. The mixup is insane with the character.

 

[JommaBrown]

I absolutely agree. Mix it up. Also I should stress that, in addition to p. Cloud, his other b moves basically fully comprise his neutral. His down b and neutral b, when mixed up between each other, are extremely effective. When I started to understand this, I started seeing that many matchups that i previously considered bad for plant actually turn out to be not bad at all. Link is an example. At first I felt suffocated by his zoning. Then I started using plant down b profusely, and was landing hit after hit. Then when they started looking out for it more, i mixed in more ptooie, sometimes letting it cancel, back into down b. Sometimes letting it rip immediately, sometimes letting it bob up and down a few times. Tgen poison cloud. Then another down b. The mixup is insane with the character.

Absolutely. The plant is essentially mind games the character. He doesn’t require the multifaceted foresight of Snake or Duck Hunt, but he needs you to play with the other player’s expectations moreso than a lot of the cast.

 

[Zalezus]

Going to add to his bag of mix ups

Short hop Ptooie stalls Plant in the air long enough to do a DJ aerial option and I find that really messes with people’s spacial perception. Poison Cloud does the same when the cloud is dispensed midair.

I like to do SH Ptooie -> DJ falling aerial or DJ Ptooie. It doesn’t need to hit anything, because committing to hit the Plant with anything short of a good disjoint is asking to get counterhit combo-startered by the ball.

I also use a ledge setplay where you run around being very evasive, jump off the stage and shoot a poison cloud or ball right over the ledge. From here you can DJ down B, DJ Ptooie, aerial back on stage, or grab the ledge to mix get up options with the smokescreen or abuse the opponent shielding the ball. Depending on how low your opponents shield is they’ll opt to respect the cloud/ball, ignore the cloud/ball and take more than 50% shield health or ignore the cloud/ball and take at least 20% damage for trying to pressure you.

This mix up works because your opponent can just jump at a Plant and hit it out of aerial poison cloud with no risk (assuming you beat the cloud actually coming out) but the same option loses to jump Ptooie and can possibly kill them for trying. Either way your opponent does more risk calculation than you do and in either situation the reward is minimal unless the plant is well past stray hit kill percents.

My favorite scenario is when I get hit out of poison cloud but the projectile comes out and my opponent takes 40+% for swinging at me for “free”.

Baits that kill are good period.

Special mentions:

Spot dodge cancelled buttons —-> utilt to grab at low %, dtilt grab at low %, jab to cloud, jab to ball

Dthrow and jab tech chase to dash attack/regrab are some consistent as hell tools, so being able to get these out a spot dodge cancel is scary in a scramble. Invincibility frames are from 3-17 and cancelling it starts your next attack on frame 20. This is actually one of the best mechanical changes in this game and here it helps Plant a LOT cause of its decent native frame data.

Down B shield pressure to Ball stall scare —> Plants pot attacks (dash attack, fair, dair) shield poke so easily. One ball, cloud, or down b will make the next big hit poke.

F Smash feint —-> whiffing an f smash or hitting it on shield creates a quasi +0 situation. You can spot dodge an approaching grab or gap closer and jab if your opponent presses a button after dropping shield (looping back into spot dodge buttons mix up tree listed above.) Obviously less useful against swords and projectiles but good nonetheless. No one has a frame advantage (again, sans swords, projectiles and good disjoints) but players will like to think “I can punish that” and get mixed for their trouble. Fsmash dash back Fsmash is good here because of the shifted hurtbox; baits that kill are good

 

[$.A.F.]

Honestly, PP is bait and punish in my opinion.