"Supershield" In-Depth

[ERK111]

Although "supershielding" has been discussed on the boards before, it's never really been explained that well, and consequently, I'm still confused about it. I've been practicing it as sort of a hobby if nothing else, and I'll explain it as I "think" it's done and it would be great if someone could corret me because I'm missing quite a bit.


So, it's just like a powershield in that it is blocking a hitbox while it's within your body. The window is the 6 frames it takes Yoshi to get into the egg. On frames 1 and 2 you can supershield with your head/legs/body/everything pretty much. Framese 4-6, however, you can only supersheild things touching your upper chest/head area (not legs or anything within the egg), because that would activate a regular powershield as opposed to a "supershield".


But what happens after you actually create the "supershield"? Can you jump out of it? How is this possible when Yoshi cannot jump out of powershields or his standard shield? Someone told me that you have to immediatly jump out after the supershield while Yoshi is still going into his egg. Is this true? That means you would have to like, immediatly supershield and then right after be all over the jump button, it seems way too hard. Nobody can even powershield consistently and now we're trying to take that and make it like 10x even harder?


So I guess I'm confused on options that you can do after a "supershield". Frame data would be nice instead of a vague "jump after it", though any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Shiri]

I'm sorry to have made the concept so vague. I'll probably have to update the project with revised info.

Okay, so here's what's going on. Your first (well, second) paragraph is absolutely right.

Now, when you create the supershield, you can treat it just like a regular shield with any other character. You can jump out or grab. Of course, jumping also leads to wavedashing and DJC, so many options.

As for why Yoshi can't jump out, that in itself is a mystery, but he's had the parry since 64, so I'm sure they've kept it in Melee for novelty, if nothing else. I'm quite sure Yoshi was forcefully subjected to getting locked in his regular shield in Melee, as his OOS would be top effing tier, as many other players (Yoshi or otherwise) have stated.

As for when you can take advantage of the supershield, it has to be before the seventh frame of the animation when Yoshi locks himself into his egg. Anytime on frames 1-6, you can perform a jumping motion (which is most likely what you want to do). Grabs can be performed OOS regularly, so you don't have to worry about a frame window for that. Yes, it is very hard. I disagree about powershielding, though. It's a pretty easy reflex to pick up with enough practice...it's not the technical beast some most people make it out to be. Regardless, this is basically a saving grace in some situations if you can use it well and use it properly. It's "another option," but in some cases it's a "lifesaver." And no, not the candy.

Mmmm, candy.

Uh, right. So yeah, there it is. I hope I answered your questions. If I had my recording equipment, I'd be more than happy to show you frames, but all my part three video data was lost. **sigh**

But yeah, if you need anything else, be sure to ask me either right here, on the project thread, or on PM. ^_^

 

[Deleted member]

Hey shiri, while ur here, what advantages does supershielding have over powershielding. OR disadvanteges.

 

[Binx]

Wow, thats pretty cool stuff, what does OOS stand for? just so I am current, I wanna say out of shield, and I assume it is because you cannot shield stab yoshi that he would have a great shield game, is powershielding easier with him because of the way it works?

 

[Deleted member]

Ummm i believe OOS stands for out of shield. Top teir...i cnat imagine a top tier yoshi.

 

[Shiri]

You would be surprised, burntsocks. You would be surprised.

Yes, OOS is out of shield.

Supershielding has the same advantages over powershielding that powershielding does over regular shielding for other characters. In general. Basically, you want to reduce powershielding to projectiles, as the only use Yoshi gets out of melee powershields are the SICK downsmash powershields on Peach (<3 Bringer/Bloshi) and the slight pushback you get. Other than that, there's no reason to powershield with Yoshi (at least against melee attacks) unless it's just a reflex you have.

Well, there may be a use, but I sure can't come up with one.

 

[rmusgrave]

I don't even know how to melee powershield with Yoshi.

Advantages of supershield - Yoshi gains the ability to jump out. Yoshi also is completely invulnerable during the supershield, meaning no damage and no shield damage or shield lag. It does not gain the benefits of powershield, other than the ability to reflect projectiles.

Advantages of powershield - If you release the shield button quickly enough you can do any attack. Computer players do it all the time, powershield into neutral A is omgworthy. There is an amount of lag you get from the hit though, even if it's reduced from normal shield lag. Also no shield damage.

Hope that helps.

 

[Shiri]

Bringer, I've done frame testing on NTSC and Yoshi can't do anything out of powershielding.

At least on 1.0, he can only do stuff out of supershield. Powershielding with him yields absolutely no counterattack-based benefits. Makes me sad.

And yes, I forgot the no-lag part. That's important, too. ^_^

P.S. - If you can move out of powershielding in PAL, I'm quitting NTSC immediately.

 

[Winnar]

He'd have the top-tier shield for a couple of reasons.

1) No shield poking. Ever.
2) Lightshielding's knockback characteristic is the ultimate for getting out of combos.
3) You can taunt with it >.> (shield, release, shield, release, it's raining egg shell :O)

And I have no info for you on supershielding. Actually, I'd like to readdress one of his questions: You really only have a maximum of 5 frames to supershield? That's assuming you supershield on the first frame, then you have only 5 frames to mash your jump button? Has anyone actually done this in a match? I'd like to see it if so, because I don't really believe it's possible. I mean if you supershield perfectly, you have .083 seconds (or less) to react with a jump, less if you supershield at the second, third, fourth, or fifth frame.

Do you instead act on muscle memory? Do you always assume you are going to supershield and press jump, and I suppose attack as well, no matter what?

I'm sorry, but this all seems impossible to me. Even on the Fox boards, the stuff they're talking about (for the most part) their ridiculously fast timing isn't reactionary, but practiced muscle memory.

 

[ERK111]

Thank you Shiri! That definatly solved all my questions, you're amazing!


Winnar: I think you're right about limited human reactions. Don't worry about it though, just do it on muscle memory, because, if you think about it you will either be:


Too late: You get hit regardless.

On time: I think I'm the only Yoshi in Texas other than Smiles. /off topic

Too early: You will probably have enough time to react that the supershield did not happen, because there will be shield lag from the enemy attack so you can think for a little bit after you press the jump button and probably have enough time to get back on the shield button so that you do not come out of your shield. Regarless, I don't think this scenario and accidently letting go of your shield would have that much consequence.

 

[Bloshi]

Yeah, this technique is pretty difficult, because of the same difficulty with powershielding that people have, which is getting the timing right. Yoshi's huge nose makes this already hard task even harder. The jumping out of the going in shield animation is actually pretty easy to learn.

I know that I've had the chance to supershield some stuff in matches (I go into my shield to block an incoming attack and don't get any shield lag) but I never have actually done it on purpose. It would be pretty sick though. If I had my cube with me I might practice it every night or something, but alas, I do not.

 

[Shiri]

Winnar, trust me, it's not as hard as it sounds.

Yes, it's difficult. But it's very do-able. Just practice. Supershield makes Link's Up+B sweat, and it takes a big poopy in Sheik's cereal when you can supershield her grabs. Just try it out. You're putting too much emphasis on the numbers and not enough on weighing the benefits of mastering such a cool technique. And to answer your question about knowing when you've supershielded, as you practice it, you'll be able to notice certain signs that tell you you've supershielded properly--the trick is reacting quickly enough to do something that counts. After a while, some attacks you will purposely run at just for the chance to supershield if you're comfortable enough with it.

Just give it a shot.

 

[Bloshi]

Looks like you and I are at odds, Shiri! I believe that while it is very possible to have an attack attack or grab whiff against the going into shield animation, it is overall too risky to try and follow up with a jump out of shield. I find that doing the first part of supershielding (not jumping out) works best against laggy attacks (Link's up-b and grab, ganon's dair) but against quick things like Sheik's grab, you'd be better off just dodging the grab altogether rather than try and time it. If you have people to practice with, though, I suppose then you could work on this technique. My problem is that Im all alone most of the time , well without a smasher most of the time.

How would you practice this technique, Shiri?

 

[Shiri]

I was lucky enough to constantly play people much better than me.

They were basically the best players in my region and I actually encouraged them to use they gayest gay things ever, especially chaingrabbing and certain camping techniques. It's part of the reason I don't fear the Sheik matchup anymore, why I don't mind fighting Fox or Marth on Yoshi's Story, and can almost flawlessly projectile powershield with most characters (take that, Falco~). Not to toot my own horn (which I'm doing anyway), but I would suggest just getting people to simply try to gay you relentlessly when you practice. I've learned too many times that there's no "fair play" in tournament, so every situation you're prepared for makes you that much less vulnerable to gayage.

If you ever see me in tournament, you'll find that I'm not that good, but I don't lose to things like Sheik chaingrab (which doesn't exist **gasp!**) or Marth dash/forward-air camping.

 

[Winnar]

I know I've accidentally had the opportunity to supershield many times, and powershielding isn't that tough if that's all I'm worried about doing, but I only realize I could have jumped out of my supershield well after it's too late to do so.

I guess what you're saying is be confident when you try to do it, and assume you'll get it right.

Also, I won't be working on supershielding for a while (I have many other things to master as Yoshi), but I will need to know this stuff eventually. Well, probably not, since by the time I get around to being good enough to use this effectively Brawl will probably be out.

<off topic> I'm still amazed that Melee has kept us all just as, if not more, entertained as when we got it six years ago; I'll probably play it until December 2nd.

 

[Shiri]

I'll be playing all three, just to watch Yoshi beat @$$ across three generations of video gaming.

Too good.

 

[Ghost42]

This is super shielding right?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TGd_MPsAsvc

 

[Shiri]

Yes. I think Bloshi has a video of similar hotness level with supershielding as well.