Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Oh ****.
I just realized that Nintendo using the SMRPG music in Geno's trailer means nothing for Ultimate in terms of contract or whatever.

I decided to rewatch Cloud's Trailer and saw that they used "Opening Bombing Mission" at the beginning but it's Nowhere to be found and FF still have two Music...

Maybe the Music contract was a one-off deal the time of the trailer with cloud FFVII opening?

 

[LetterO]

How’s the idea of a retro character that isn’t retro himself, but would have a moveset based around it?

Spoiler

Plus, it’s more WarioWare representation.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yea people who pointed out that Sakurai was clearly lying or just trying to set us up for big reveals and suprises when he said "We hope you weren't expecting too many challengers" are what cause the problems in the speculation cycle.

Game developer litteraly tells you to temper your expectations for number of newcomers, then two months before release there has to be more than just a few characters.

To be fair, he said the exact same thing for Sm4sh. And then we got how many new characters?
I understand to take people at face value, but theres more than a few precedents for not doing so to extreme precision.
Particularly about character count in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh ****.
I just realized that Nintendo using the SMRPG music in Geno's trailer means nothing for Ultimate in terms of contract or whatever.

I decided to rewatch Cloud's Trailer and saw that they used "Opening Bombing Mission" at the beginning but it's Nowhere to be found and FF still have two Music...

Maybe the Music contract was a one-off deal the time of the trailer with cloud FFVII opening?

Electric de Chocobo is also used in the Mii costume wave 5 trailer.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't rule out the possibility of another retro character, but we are also running out of candidates as well, although there are quite a few solid choices, just less obvious ones compared to the likes of R.O.B. or Duck Hunt. They're more on the level of the Ice Climbers, which isn't a bad thing at all.

Considering the report on CoroCoro about 108 stages, it definitely leaves the room open for some unrepresented series' characters getting an appropriate stage for them, e.g. Mach Rider getting a Mach Rider-themed stage.

Going by Vergeben's claims, it definitely seems like we might not be getting a new retro character this time around, assuming the remaining newcomers are Incineroar, Ken and whoever the 2nd Square Enix character is.

Oh ****.
I just realized that Nintendo using the SMRPG music in Geno's trailer means nothing for Ultimate in terms of contract or whatever.

I decided to rewatch Cloud's Trailer and saw that they used "Opening Bombing Mission" at the beginning but it's Nowhere to be found and FF still have two Music...

Maybe the Music contract was a one-off deal the time of the trailer with cloud FFVII opening?

Could be since the music licensing contracts likely need to stipulate how is the music going to be used, whether just in a promotional video or in-game.

Some other Smash 3DS/Wii U newcomer trailers also made use of music not found in-game, for example Palutena's trailer using various songs from Kid Icarus: Uprising not in the game and Robin and Lucina's trailer using the opening theme from Fire Emblem: Awakening that isn't heard in the game either.

 

[ZephyrZ]

If you give certain fanbases a break simply because there are only a few toxic people in them, then I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely. While you are right to an extent, you cannot simply dismiss all garbage behavior as “vocal minority”
At the same time though, I will agree that generalizing an entire group of people is how witch hunts start.

The point is that we should judge a fanbase by what they are as a whole. Most of the Smash fanbase is awesome. Yes we should not tolerate the toxic portions of it, but we shouldn't act like the Smash community is an entirely toxic place either. It isn't.

The bulk of my experience with the Smash community has been great. I've certainly made far more friends then enemies in my time here, and the few small convention tournaments I've been to have been some of the best times I've had with Smash Bros in my life. Yeah, I remember meeting one guy at a convention who was whining that "Lucario should be cut because he only appeals to furry weirdos", but everyone was was just happy to be playing the game with someone.

At the end of the day this community is great, or else I would have stopped visiting these boards a long time ago.

Edit: Let's look at it this way; It's not a question of if the glass is half empty or half full, it's a question of if it's 20% empty or 80% full.

 

[Nekoo]

Electric de Chocobo is also used in the Mii costume wave 5 trailer.

Okay.
**** Geno
**** SMRPG music
**** FFVII music.
The fact that we didn't get the Chocobo theme is the true crime.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't rule out the possibility of another retro character, but we are also running out of candidates as well, although there are quite a few solid choices, just less obvious ones compared to the likes of R.O.B. or Duck Hunt. They're more on the level of the Ice Climbers, which isn't a bad thing at all.

Excitebiker would be the most iconic NES-era character left.

To be fair, he said the exact same thing for Sm4sh. And then we got how many new characters?
I understand to take people at face value, but theres more than a few precedents for not doing so to extreme precision.
Particularly about character count in this game.

This is specifically what he stated for Smash 4.

“It isn’t a matter of ‘if the next game has 50 characters, that’ll be enough.’ There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive…. In terms of quantity, we’ve probably already reached the limit of what’s feasible. I think a change of direction may be what’s needed.”

 

[Frostwraith]

This is specifically what he stated for Smash 4.

And we still got Ultimate despite such statements. What a madman.

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

And we still got Ultimate despite such statements. What a madman.

To be fair now we have more near 1:1 clone characters added now than we ever did, and it’s most likey due to us reaching the roster limit.

 

[Pakky]

Lowkey mad or hyped out of your mind?

His rover was a Melee trophy, never knew that.

 

[dezeray112]

How would Jade affect Shantae and vice-versa?

Are you trying to say all tanned girls with ponytails are the same?


Than Jade?

Not really.
She's basically DQ's Isabelle.
https://kotaku.com/the-dragon-quest-xi-character-japan-has-fallen-in-love-1797423013

As in a new character that suddenly takes the fanbase by storm.

After viewing several cutscenes within DQXI, I can pretty much see why she is favourable.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Okay.
**** Geno
**** SMRPG music
**** FFVII music.
The fact that we didn't get the Chocobo theme is the true crime.

FACT. How they do only got the clear to use the music in the trailer and not the game

 

[Pakky]

How would Jade affect Shantae and vice-versa?

Are you trying to say all tanned girls with ponytails are the same?


Than Jade?

Not really.
She's basically DQ's Isabelle.
https://kotaku.com/the-dragon-quest-xi-character-japan-has-fallen-in-love-1797423013

As in a new character that suddenly takes the fanbase by storm.

When is this coming to Switch? Like WHEN!

 

[Frostwraith]

To be fair now we have more near 1:1 clone characters added now than we ever did, and it’s most likey due to us reaching the roster limit.

Yeah, but let's be honest, it was the only way certain characters would ever be added with how similar they are to existing characters or simply because it's viable to do so.

Daisy, Chrom and Dark Samus wouldn't have been added otherwise, and Sakurai wanted to throw fans of these characters a bone.

Richter is a different case, as you can tell the moveset Sakurai came up for the Belmonts draw heavily from both Simon and Richter, along with various abilities common for both characters and other elements from the Castlevania series overall.

 

[Deleted member]

FACT. How they do only got the clear to use the music in the trailer and not the game

It's probably cheaper if they're just using the music in that one instance.

 

[BlueMagician]

By the way, here how she would have appeared in Captain Rainbow, found in unused files:

It's in this video with motions. I don't know where on the disc you'd find these files, though.

 

[Kooj Kooj]

Going by Vergeben's claims, it definitely seems like we might not be getting a new retro character this time around, assuming the remaining newcomers are Incineroar, Ken and whoever the 2nd Square Enix character is.

Well... assuming the Square Enix character is Geno he also fits the bill of a retro rep. He'd be older than G&W was when Melee released as that game's retro rep, but not quite as old as R.O.B. compared to Brawl or Duck Hunt compared to Smash4. I think people are more likely to think of him as a Third Party than retro, but really he does fit the other niche too which is kinda nice.

Of course, while I personally think it will be Geno, it very well might not be and a separate retro rep might be needed too.

 

[Pakky]

By the way, here how she would have appeared in Captain Rainbow, found in unused files:

View attachment 165669

It's in this video with motions. I don't know where on the disc you'd find these files, though.

I swear Captain Rainbow should be released on the E-shop and localized.

No one has a let's play of it or anything.

Look at all the warriors in that game, man, such a good cast.

 

[pupNapoleon]

By the way, here how she would have appeared in Captain Rainbow, found in unused files:

View attachment 165669

It's in this video with motions. I don't know where on the disc you'd find these files, though.

That's mach rider? Is that the she to whom you refer?

 

[CosmicQuark]

To be fair, he said the exact same thing for Sm4sh. And then we got how many new characters?
I understand to take people at face value, but theres more than a few precedents for not doing so to extreme precision.
Particularly about character count in this game.

And to add to that, we could still get more than just a few characters left to be revealed and it still may hold true to his statements--whether he was referring to unique newcomers or including echoes, how many newcomers count as "not too many"--compared to 4? Compared to Melee? I think since Sakurai comes out and says don't expect too many newcomers, we should lower our expectations, but that doesn't mean we can't be hopeful.

 

[pupNapoleon]

And to add to that, we could still get more than just a few characters left to be revealed and it still may hold true to his statements--whether he was referring to unique newcomers or including echoes, how many newcomers count as "not too many"--compared to 4? Compared to Melee? I think since Sakurai comes out and says don't expect too many newcomers, we should lower our expectations, but that doesn't mean we can't be hopeful.

I'm a pretty optimistic and imaginative person. I can always justify that we can get out of the box and the sky's are sunnier.
And toward that sun, I can also fly. Too close, at times.
I'm just hype for this game. I have finally learned how to control my excitement levels in a way that balances the reward without causing too much downfall.
Then again, I have yet to think something was irritating in this game.

I've certainly made far more friends then enemies in my time here, and the few small convention tournaments I've been to have been some of the best times I've had with Smash Bros in my life.

I wonder what that feels like...
In real life I'd agree.
On these forums I'm fairly certain most of the users cannot stand me, if they even leave me unblocked.

 

[Garteam]

This is the way I see things playing out regarding the remaining announcements:
-October Direct comes around and we get info on:
-Spirits mode
-4 of the remaining stages (one of which probably tie into the unannounced characters)
-The final echoes (bets on Shadow and Ken),
-A character reveal at both the beginning and end (my bets on Lycanroc and Bandana Dee)

-A last minute announcement to put the hype train into full blast. This will happen either at the end of a direct (like Isabelle) or in a separate stream (like Robin).
-This last minute announcement is a 2nd Square Enix character (probably Geno or someone from Dragon Quest)
-The final stage ties into the new character.

 

[osby]

Well... assuming the Square Enix character is Geno he also fits the bill of a retro rep. He'd be older than G&W was when Melee released as that game's retro rep, but not quite as old as R.O.B. compared to Brawl or Duck Hunt compared to Smash4. I think people are more likely to think of him as a Third Party than retro, but really he does fit the other niche too which is kinda nice.

Of course, while I personally think it will be Geno, it very well might not be and a separate retro rep might be needed too.

That reminded me just how young Melee newcomers were, compared to others.

Though, I don't think Sakurai necessarily wants old characters. From what we've seen it's a mix of gameplay, suprise factor and wanting to show video game 'characters' that CAN'T exist today.

 

[Sharkarat]

If you give certain fanbases a break simply because there are only a few toxic people in them, then I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely. While you are right to an extent, you cannot simply dismiss all garbage behavior as “vocal minority”
At the same time though, I will agree that generalizing an entire group of people is how witch hunts start.

You're overly pessimistic.
We've had smash 4 releasing without Rool and other favorites, waluigi deconfirmed, Isabelle confirmed. lots of salt at the start but doesn't really stay that way. Your doomsday propechy for Ultimate's release has little basis in reality.
Yes there will be lot of complaining, but there isn't good reasons to believe the release of ultimate will be fanbase shattering different in the way you have been implying.

 

[praline]

It’d be cool if they did dlc but had echo fighters packaged with unique characters. Like an example being having Geno as dlc and he comes with Boshi as a Yoshi echo and Booster as a Wario echo.

 

[Michele]

It’d be cool if they did dlc but had echo fighters packaged with unique characters. Like an example being having Geno as dlc and he comes with Boshi as a Yoshi echo and Booster as a Wario echo.

Actually, it'd be great if DLC was free OR if Nintendo Switch Online had a special offer that allows you to get DLC for free.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I wonder what that feels like...
In real life I'd agree.
On these forums I'm fairly certain most of the users cannot stand me, if they even leave me unblocked.

Huh, really? I never got that much of an impression there was some sort of stigma towards you, at least not in this thread. Some discussions here get pretty heated at times, but most people are able to keep it pretty civil.

 

[Turtlar]

So... Discussing Mach Rider earlier, Made Me Realize Something...

Keep an eye out on these guys...

Spoiler: Potential Retro Reps...

Don't forget about this guy. DK Jr is retro I think a lot of people have been sleeping on.

 

[praline]

Actually, it'd be great if DLC was free OR if Nintendo Switch Online had a special offer that allows you to get DLC for free.

I wouldn’t hold your breath about free dlc.

Maybe online players get a discount but they’ll definitely not be free in any way.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Actually, it'd be great if DLC was free OR if Nintendo Switch Online had a special offer that allows you to get DLC for free.

Ya know, I hadn't thought about it, but it was suspicious how Nintendo did not mention what the special offers were, apparently holding it off... for another announcement.

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

Yeah, but let's be honest, it was the only way certain characters would ever be added with how similar they are to existing characters or simply because it's viable to do so.

Daisy, Chrom and Dark Samus wouldn't have been added otherwise, and Sakurai wanted to throw fans of these characters a bone.

Richter is a different case, as you can tell the moveset Sakurai came up for the Belmonts draw heavily from both Simon and Richter, along with various abilities common for both characters and other elements from the Castlevania series overall.

I feel like half our newcomers being echo fighters must have something to do with it. Sakurai could have easily drafted off the idea, but he didn’t. Partly due to wanting to implement clones who are too different to be costumes (Daisy was actually the first one concieved if we look at her artwork) and wanting to give customers more new characters. If rumours are to be believed, we are only getting one more new original character and one new echo fighter.

He definitely counts the echo fighters as new characters if we go by everything he said and how they are treated in game (except for the cosmetic display stacking). Someone like Dark Samus would have not gotten as many awesome animations changes and thematic changes + ability/param changes if she was an afterthought.

 

[P.Kat]

So... Discussing Mach Rider earlier, Made Me Realize Something...

Keep an eye out on these guys...

Spoiler: Potential Retro Reps...

Don't forget Valkyrie.

Wow that's good!.

Is the boob window even that bad?

I think she's cute! Is this the same one with the gun or is that someone else?

Either way I think it would be super neat to have her on the bike all the time or if she was a + type that just summons a bike in smash attacks kind like but frequently.

I would be hyped to play as Mach Rider, I think she should be able to summon her bike, get on it, and have a new moveset by doing so, but I like your idea too.

 

[Frostwraith]

I feel like half our newcomers being echo fighters must have something to do with it. Sakurai could have easily drafted off the idea, but he didn’t. Partly due to wanting to implement clones who are too different to be costumes (Daisy was actually the first one concieved if we look at her artwork) and wanting to give customers more new characters. If rumours are to be believed, we are only getting one more new original character and one new echo fighter.

He definitely counts the echo fighters as new characters if we go by everything he said and how they are treated in game (except for the cosmetic display stacking). Someone like Dark Samus would have not gotten as many awesome animations changes and thematic changes + ability/param changes if she was an afterthought.

I don't think Sakurai ever thought of clones as less than the other, more unique characters.

In Melee, each of the clones had clear design premises going for them that had those characters' characterization in mind.

With Ultimate, while the movesets definitely don't have as many notable differences as the Melee clones, the animation work is definitely there to make them feel closer to their characterization. Only Chrom so far seems to have a different move from the character he's based from, Final Smashes notwithstanding.

 

[Pakky]

Don't forget Valkyrie.


I would be hyped to play as Mach Rider, I think she should be able to summon her bike, get on it, and have a new moveset by doing so, but I like your idea too.

I like yours more that's rad! And totally different to smash.

Valkyrie would be sweet too!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The most toxic thing I’ve seen in the fan base is a guy handling a GameCube controller with his toes.

****ing toxic.

Are you talking about the player Toez? Toez only has 1 arm.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

To be fair, he said the exact same thing for Sm4sh. And then we got how many new characters?
I understand to take people at face value, but theres more than a few precedents for not doing so to extreme precision.
Particularly about character count in this game.

Excitebiker would be the most iconic NES-era character left.



This is specifically what he stated for Smash 4.

And we still got Ultimate despite such statements. What a madman.

As pointed out, those aren't quite the same statements. Saying we might need to take a new direction isn't the same as "Don't expect too many new fighters" or "A few more reveals".

Assuming 5+ more characters, and I was one of those people a few weeks ago, is being way too optimistic. Could happen sure, but it's not what Sakurai has set up so don't be mad at him if we only have 2-3 more characters.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the don't be mad at him, wasn't to anyone specifically in this thread. Just anyone who expects lots of reveals left because Sakurai is probably lying/tricking us etc. Guy literally told us what to expect. We should be surprised if there's more not if there's less.

 

[Frostwraith]

As pointed out, those aren't quite the same statements. Saying we might need to take a new direction isn't the same as "Don't expect too many new fighters" or "A few more reveals".

Assuming 5+ more characters, and I was one of those people a few weeks ago, is being way too optimistic. Could happen sure, but it's not what Sakurai has set up so don't be mad at him if we only have 2-3 more characters.

I can't be mad at him when Ultimate already has a very satisfying roster for me. Anything else is a cherry on top of the cake at this point.

 

[Kuon]

Yes. See for yourself.

Spoiler: Big picture from Hi-Score magazine

View attachment 165659

Picture taken from here

Nintendo sent this pic of her to Hi-Score magazine back in 1986.

Mach Rider would be so sick. Especially if they went with her 80s look like this picture (except less revealing of course). There's just so many potential characters that would be so cool to have. Now that I've see n this picture, I want it to be true

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey so

About the fact FF7 only has 2 tracks still...

https://twitter.com/MarzGurl/status/1042585942312144896
https://twitter.com/granblue_en/status/1042576300500692992

Something’s up with Nobuo Uematsu...hope he’ll be ok...

Also TIL he composed for Granblue