Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kenith]

I would personally argue that the main front-runners for Generation 7 Pokemon would be Decidueye and Tapu Koko, as the former seems to be the most popular starter currently, while the latter is very much the poster-boy that prominently appears in the plot of Sun/Moon and frequently in the anime.

That said, I'm convinced that Decidueye's support solely comes from the same group of people that used to request Sceptile all the time. Wonder what happened to that. Moveset potential aside, I swear these people care more about the Grass-starters just because it forms an imaginary rock-paper-scissors in Smash than it does having anything to do with the character itself.

Tapu Koko is likewise a harder sell when Pikachu is kind of the forefront of Electric-type Pokemon already. His Electric Surge ability, Nature's Madness move, and traits of mixing quick speed with his protective "shell" give him some things to differentiate himself from Pikachu. A much greater defensive approach to Pikachu's offensive one. However, I still find it difficult to see Sakurai finding his inclusion necessary on part of Pikachu's niche being such a prominent one. "Electric Parrying Blitzer" isn't exactly the most unique thing around when "Electric Glass-Cannon Blitzer" is also a thing.

I think Decidueye is more like Greninja than Sceptile. He's genuinely popular.
Although I really wouldn't bank on him regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

Too many people draw comparisons between Decidueye and Greninja in a plethora of aspects (and have ever since Decidueye was shown to be official) that it's going to severely bite them in the ass.

 

[Luminario]

I would personally argue that the main front-runners for Generation 7 Pokemon would be Decidueye and Tapu Koko, as the former seems to be the most popular starter currently, while the latter is very much the poster-boy that prominently appears in the plot of Sun/Moon and frequently in the anime.

That said, I'm convinced that Decidueye's support solely comes from the same group of people that used to request Sceptile all the time. Wonder what happened to that. Moveset potential aside, I swear these people care more about the Grass-starters just because it forms an imaginary rock-paper-scissors in Smash than it does having anything to do with the character itself.

Tapu Koko is likewise a harder sell when Pikachu is kind of the forefront of Electric-type Pokemon already. His Electric Surge ability, Nature's Madness move, and traits of mixing quick speed with his protective "shell" give him some things to differentiate himself from Pikachu. A much greater defensive approach to Pikachu's offensive one. However, I still find it difficult to see Sakurai finding his inclusion necessary on part of Pikachu's niche being such a prominent one. "Electric Parrying Blitzer" isn't exactly the most unique thing around when "Electric Glass-Cannon Blitzer" is also a thing.

What about Mimikyu? It's Ghost/Fairy typing allows for a wide variety of trickster like mechanics and it's pretty popular. It's Disguise ability could translate over as a counter like move, Play Rough as a command grab, Wood Hammer as its smash attacks.
My money is on Decidueye so far. It's popular and got the most potential with it being a bird, archer, and a grass/ghost type.

 

[Kenith]

Too many people draw comparisons between Decidueye and Greninja in a plethora of aspects (and have ever since Decidueye was shown to be official) that it's going to severely bite them in the ***.

I don't think Decidueye is going to become as explosively popular as him nor do I think he'll get into Smash. But there are comparisons to be made.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Decidueye is going to become as explosively popular as him nor do I think he'll get into Smash. But there are comparisons to be made.

Other than the whole "they look cool" aspect, I really don't see it.

 

[Kirbeh]

I don't think Decidueye is going to become as explosively popular as him nor do I think he'll get into Smash. But there are comparisons to be made.

I think there's still potential for Decidueye to get close, it's quite popular already as it is. That being said I agree that it'll likely miss Smash. Though in my case, I think it's because we'll be on Gen 8 (maybe even 9) by the time we get a new Smash.

And if we do get a port of Smash Wii U, I don't think we'll be getting much new content. My expectations are low enough to believe that there won't any new characters.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Some people are way too dismissive of Decidueye

Some people are way too quick to put him so high on a pedestal



What a curious predicament.
This is why I keep recommending open minds to many situations

 

[Kenith]

I think there's still potential for Decidueye to get close, it's quite popular already as it is. That being said I agree that it'll likely miss Smash. Though in my case, I think it's because we'll be on Gen 8 (maybe even 9) by the time we get a new Smash.

And if we do get a port of Smash Wii U, I don't think we'll be getting much new content. My expectations are low enough to believe that there won't any new characters.

I'm expecting very little as well. If it's a port I honestly am banking on only 1-2 new characters. They'd be just trying to get Smash on the system. Though more DLC would not be far-fetched.

Even if the next Smash is all new, I wonder how different it will actually be from Smash 4.

 

[FalKoopa]

Yeah, if anything, it should be Incineroar that people should be clamouring for

I mean, Decidueye does look attractive as a Greninja 2.0 due to being a popular starter and Rowlett being Ash's current Pokémon in the anime.

That said, just as we didn't get Lucario 2.0 (Zoroark), betting on Greninja 2.0 is a risky bet.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The funny thing about Grass-type representatives is that we did have Ivysaur. However, it wasn't all that good in Brawl, especially since it was part of the Pokemon Trainer.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Any of the Pokemon mentioned could be interesting, and I understand wanting a grass type (again), but... Silly ol' me would prefer more cute Pokemon being thrown into the mix. We currently have four cool Pokemon, but only two cute Pokemon. I guess the only chance of getting more cuteness would be if they decided to bring Squirtle and/or Pichu back, though (Ivysaur was like, half cool, half cute), and that's probably not much of a chance, at least in Pichu's case...

 

[Pixlemaster]

These are the characters who have an actual chance to get in to a smash 4 PORT, not a smash 5.

I think the ice climbers will return because probably the reason they weren't in smash 4 is because of the 3DS,s limitations. I also think wolf will return. I also think snake will be in if Konami is ok with it.

Now for new characters, probably the new character who has the best chance of getting in are the Inklings. Heck, they're confirmed for Mario kart 8 deluxe, if the inklings can get into a (mostly, I'm looking at you link and villager) Mario game, they can absolutely get in to smash. A Pokémon from sun and moon should also be in, the 3 best candidates Are Decidueye, Tapu Koko, and Mimikyu. But Decidueye has the best chance, in my opinion. For the last character, I'm betting on shovel knight. This is because they already have lots of material to make his moves, and there's already an amibo for him, he's in my opinion, the non-Nintendo character that has the best chance to get in.

And remember, Nintendo could still make a smash 5 later in the switch's life. And there's also a chance they could release Melee for the Virtual Console, or possibly release an Melee HD, wich would be awesome.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Sigh, are we seriously on the same Decidueye subject AGAIN?

I'm not remotely religious, but Christ.

 

[Zerp]

Speaking of Pokemon, how do you all feel about ? They've been in a Pokeball forever (In every game from 64 to Smash U) but they're also super iconic and are extremely popular outside of Smash (as in, they literally beat Pikachu on that big official popularity poll), not to mention the endless potential they possess in the form of being able to learn all non-signature moves, I can't help but get the feeling they're a tad overlooked and just might end up blindsiding people.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Speaking of Pokemon, how do you all feel about ? They've been in a Pokeball forever (In every game from 64 to Smash U) but they're also super iconic and are extremely popular outside of Smash (as in, they literally beat Pikachu on that big official popularity poll), not to mention the endless potential they possess in the form of being able to learn all non-signature moves, I can't help but get the feeling they're a tad overlooked and just might end up blindsiding people.

Meanwhile for Meowth fans,

"Meowth, that's right. I will always be Team Rocket's pet and never fight that twerp's Pikachu in Smash,"

 

[Kenith]

These are the characters who have an actual chance to get in to a smash 4 PORT, not a smash 5.

I think the ice climbers will return because probably the reason they weren't in smash 4 is because of the 3DS,s limitations. I also think wolf will return. I also think snake will be in if Konami is ok with it.

Now for new characters, probably the new character who has the best chance of getting in are the Inklings. Heck, they're confirmed for Mario kart 8 deluxe, if the inklings can get into a (mostly, I'm looking at you link and villager) Mario game, they can absolutely get in to smash. A Pokémon from sun and moon should also be in, the 3 best candidates Are Decidueye, Tapu Koko, and Mimikyu. But Decidueye has the best chance, in my opinion. For the last character, I'm betting on shovel knight. This is because they already have lots of material to make his moves, and there's already an amibo for him, he's in my opinion, the non-Nintendo character that has the best chance to get in.

And remember, Nintendo could still make a smash 5 later in the switch's life. And there's also a chance they could release Melee for the Virtual Console, or possibly release an Melee HD, wich would be awesome.

I like your style.

Speaking of Pokemon, how do you all feel about ? They've been in a Pokeball forever (In every game from 64 to Smash U) but they're also super iconic and are extremely popular outside of Smash (as in, they literally beat Pikachu on that big official popularity poll), not to mention the endless potential they possess in the form of being able to learn all non-signature moves, I can't help but get the feeling they're a tad overlooked and just might end up blindsiding people.

I've seen Mew brought up, but I don't think it'll ever happen. Mew's Poke Ball status is honestly kind of its trademark in the series, and it plays into the idea that Mew is exceedingly rare pretty well.

There are more viable choices from Pokemon at the moment, and generally the Pokemon series in Smash favors adding newer characters/content over older ones for promotion's sake.

There are even first-gen Pokemon with more ongoing relevance than Mew such as Meowth, who's in the anime, and many of the Pokemon that got Mega Evolutions and Alolan Forms, like the Kanto starters.

 

[N3ON]

People exaggerate how popular Greninja was prior to Smash. He was the most popular of the three, but he wasn't "explosively" popular. He was as popular as you'd expect the most popular of the starters to be. He wasn't an exception like Blaziken. I mean it would still be much later until Ash got one. He did have a Froakie already though. And not the other two.

So I guess those are some apt comparisons for you, @GoldenYuiitusin. They both can apply to Decidueye as well. Of course Ash still can get the other starters, but as of yet, he hasn't. And I don't want to get into debating Decidueye's chances again, so I'll just leave it there, at a few extra comparisons.

Yeah, if anything, it should be Incineroar that people should be clamouring for

I mean, Decidueye does look attractive as a Greninja 2.0 due to being a popular starter and Rowlett being Ash's current Pokémon in the anime.

That said, just as we didn't get Lucario 2.0 (Zoroark), betting on Greninja 2.0 is a risky bet.

I figure the main reason we didn't get Lucario 2.0 is because Gen 6 came out and didn't have a Lucario parallel in it.

If Gen 6 was still too far in the future to be implemented in Smash 4, I think we would've wound up getting Zoroark.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Zerp I personally can't see it happening. Mew and some of the other cute legendaries seem to serve the sole purpose of surprising players with their presence alone; the thought of one of those being taken out to become a playable character is rather odd to me. Of course, there's the obvious fact that we already have Mewtwo, but even if we were to use Melee's Pichu as an argument against Mew being kept out because of an existing character, trying to imagine how Mew could work animation-wise when fighting is strange in itself. Wasn't Mew always floating pretty high above ground in the movie? It looked fine in that case, but... Imagine how awkward it'd look floating at a similar height to Mewtwo or Palutena above the ground while dashing... I don't know, it might just be me. LOL

 

[Cyro_]

Zerp I personally can't see it happening. Mew and some of the other cute legendaries seem to serve the sole purpose of surprising players with their presence alone; the thought of one of those being taken out to become a playable character is rather odd to me. Of course, there's the obvious fact that we already have Mewtwo, but even if we were to use Melee's Pichu as an argument against Mew being kept out because of an existing character, trying to imagine how Mew could work animation-wise when fighting is strange in itself. Wasn't Mew always floating pretty high above ground in the movie? It looked fine in that case, but... Imagine how awkward it'd look floating at a similar height to Mewtwo or Palutena above the ground while dashing... I don't know, it might just be me. LOL

You are not alone Mew dashing and just fighting in general would be awkward for the opponent and the player, just imagine grabbing. Mew should just stay a pokeball item.

 

[Zerp]

Zerp I personally can't see it happening. Mew and some of the other cute legendaries seem to serve the sole purpose of surprising players with their presence alone; the thought of one of those being taken out to become a playable character is rather odd to me. Of course, there's the obvious fact that we already have Mewtwo, but even if we were to use Melee's Pichu as an argument against Mew being kept out because of an existing character, trying to imagine how Mew could work animation-wise when fighting is strange in itself. Wasn't Mew always floating pretty high above ground in the movie? It looked fine in that case, but... Imagine how awkward it'd look floating at a similar height to Mewtwo or Palutena above the ground while dashing... I don't know, it might just be me. LOL

Mechanically, what they'd probably do for the animation is give him invisible "legs" below his actual body that you wouldn't be able to see, to make it appear as if the character's floating a foot or two above the ground, but have those "legs" disappear once they're knocked into the air and what not so they can properly tech and time aerials before landing, then have the character start floating again by making the "legs" sprout out again after the get-up animation, it's definitely possible to animate that and shouldn't be all too difficult.

What'd probably be really weird and wonky though is his hurtbox, would you be able to damage the invisible part of the model or would players have to aim at a small target awkwardly positioned in mid-air 24/7 and avoid using d-tilts and the like? That might not necessarily be the most fair of designs lol.

 

[N3ON]

While I don't see getting Mew at this point (though I think the character could work) - his role among the gen is something recurring and feasible enough that it's kind of surprising so few of the successors gain any real semblance of support for Smash. The only one I can remember is Victini.

 

[FalKoopa]

Speaking of Pokemon, how do you all feel about ? They've been in a Pokeball forever (In every game from 64 to Smash U) but they're also super iconic and are extremely popular outside of Smash (as in, they literally beat Pikachu on that big official popularity poll), not to mention the endless potential they possess in the form of being able to learn all non-signature moves, I can't help but get the feeling they're a tad overlooked and just might end up blindsiding people.

Besides being kind of similar aesthetically to Mewtwo, I think Mew suffers from being rather overshadowed by all the recent Pokémon in promotional material. Mew's purpose, in both Pokémon and Smash, seems to be more like an easter egg.

Doesn't help that Pokémon character selection for Smash is such a crowded spot already.

Unless Mew rises to prominence again - like being plot important character or getting a new signature move/Z move/mega evolution/forme - I think its chances are slim.

 

[Deleted member]

People exaggerate how popular Greninja was prior to Smash. He was the most popular of the three, but he wasn't "explosively" popular. He was as popular as you'd expect the most popular of the starters to be. He wasn't an exception like Blaziken. I mean it would still be much later until Ash got one. He did have a Froakie already though. And not the other two.

So I guess those are some apt comparisons for you, @GoldenYuiitusin. They both can apply to Decidueye as well. Of course Ash still can get the other starters, but as of yet, he hasn't. And I don't want to get into debating Decidueye's chances again, so I'll just leave it there, at a few extra comparisons.

Once April 6th comes around, he will have Litten.

Unless Mew rises to prominence again - like being plot important character or getting a new signature move/Z move/mega evolution/forme - I think its chances are slim.

Umm.....

 

[Burruni]

Once April 6th comes around, he will have Litten.

Not like the starter leaks didn't confirm that his ace is gonna be Mr. Furenheit.
Not that we'll see a gen 7 addition for the rroster.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I'm shocked we managed to get this many posts about Mew without a joke about being a Mewtwo clone or vice versa

I feel like ignoring any problems of being so small, mew doesn't really standout moveset wise. Having every move ever and no real signature moves other than a bubble kind of hurts it in being unique. "Everything and the kitchen sink," is a trap a lot of people fall into (myself included) when it comes to moveset. You can have a lot of moves, but if none of them really link together it isn't really a moveset


Plus lol no relevancy

 

[N3ON]

Once April 6th comes around, he will have Litten.

Ah yah, looks like he might. We'll see.

Not like the starter leaks didn't confirm that his ace is gonna be Mr. Furenheit.
Not that we'll see a gen 7 addition for the rroster.

Did they? How?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Can't stop thinking of Bravely Default/Second and I want Edea in smash more than ever again. ****

Did they? How?

I believe Burruni is referring to the fact Incineroar's conecpt art had Ash and Mallow in it, anime characters.

 

[Burruni]

Ah yah, looks like he might. We'll see.


Did they? How?

Strong implication that the leaks were at least in part work for the anime.
Incineroar's having the clear doodle of Mallow using his stomach to brew tea with Ash at her side; the damning thing that confirmed them.
I will take that, until proven wrong, as proof Ash is going to catch Litten and it will evolve in full.
And I don't think we've had a season with two final-stage starters (Ash-owned).

 

[Deleted member]

Strong implication that the leaks were at least in part work for the anime.
Incineroar's having the clear doodle of Mallow using his stomach to brew tea with Ash at her side; the damning thing that confirmed them.
I will take that, until proven wrong, as proof Ash is going to catch Litten and it will evolve in full.
And I don't think we've had a season with two final-stage starters (Ash-owned).

Sinnoh.

But Infernape was the clear ace while Torterra just plain sucked after evolving.

 

[Burruni]

Sinnoh.

But Infernape was the clear ace while Torterra just plain sucked after evolving.

See. Sinnoh is when I dropped the show.
I just know that Unova had a garbage team and Krookodile was the sole final-stage.
And for Kalos...
We know the grand loser.
vs

 

[Deleted member]

See. Sinnoh is when I dropped the show.
I just know that Unova had a garbage team and Krookodile was the sole final-stage.
And for Kalos...
We know the grand loser.
vs

There was also Leavanny, Unfeasant, and Charizard (he came back :V).

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

See. Sinnoh is when I dropped the show.
I just know that Unova had a garbage team and Krookodile was the sole final-stage.
And for Kalos...
We know the grand loser.
vs

Can we just let the Champsionship Failure die already? It was already annoying enough when Pokemon stocks droppped because of that.

 

[Burruni]

There was also Leavanny, Unfeasant, and Charizard (he came back :V).

(More proof I didn't watch BW)
But Pokemon is in general in a bit of a corner for Smash.

We have 5 icons of the series (and P-Jiggles).
From here.... little from Alola hit as strong overall, I feel, it's a bit too late for promotional power, and has that fan craving for a grass starter.

 

[Deleted member]

(More proof I didn't watch BW)
But Pokemon is in general in a bit of a corner for Smash.

We have 5 icons of the series (and P-Jiggles).
From here.... little from Alola hit as strong overall, I feel, it's a bit too late for promotional power, and has that fan craving for a grass starter.

I'd argue that Mimikyu and Tapu Koko are in the making of hitting it.

 

[Burruni]

I'd argue that Mimikyu and Tapu Koko are in the making of hitting it.

Mimikyu at least had a more explosive popularity spike.
But.... neither are Lucario/Zoroark levels for their gen, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Mimikyu at least had a more explosive popularity spike.
But.... neither are Lucario/Zoroark levels for their gen, in my opinion.

Zoroark wasn't even the Lucario of its gen.

They definitely tried pushing it as such, but that fell horribly flat.

 

[Burruni]

Zoroark wasn't even the Lucario of its gen.

They definitely tried pushing it as such, but that fell horribly flat.

Which is part of the point.
Game Freak are the ones who pick and push Pokemon TO Sakurai to approve.
Tapu Koko'd be the most plausible one for that and even then... it doesn't seem like what we've seen from both parties.

 

[Deleted member]

Which is part of the point.
Game Freak are the ones who pick and push Pokemon TO Sakurai to approve.
Tapu Koko'd be the most plausible one for that and even then... it doesn't seem like what we've seen from both parties.

....no they don't.

They didn't push Lucario TO Sakurai. They pushed Lucario through a movie, and said movie happened to be right when Sakurai was finalizing the roster.

They didn't push Zoroark TO Sakurai. They pushed Zoroark through a movie. But unlike Lucario, who received great reception and became a fan favorite, Zoroark was just "so-so". But had Smash 4 started development around when the movie came out.....we would very likely have seen Zoroark in Smash regardless of the lack of success compared to Lucario.

They didn't even push Greninja TO Sakurai. He saw a design draft of the Pokémon among others and decided on it.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Can we just let the Champsionship Failure die already? It was already annoying enough when Pokemon stocks droppped because of that.

News to me, but can see why it did...

I didn't really watch the anime any for years after Ruby & Sapphire, but eventually checked out the X/Y series out of curiosity (and as an afterthought when I didn't have much else to watch at the time) which I finished around the end of last year; by finished more like skimmed through a certain chunk of it but regardless, was late to the party on knowing about the whole Ash-Greninja thing. How was that concept received by fans? Again, just curious.

 

[N3ON]

....no they don't.

They didn't push Lucario TO Sakurai. They pushed Lucario through a movie, and said movie happened to be right when Sakurai was finalizing the roster.

They didn't push Zoroark TO Sakurai. They pushed Zoroark through a movie. But unlike Lucario, who received great reception and became a fan favorite, Zoroark was just "so-so". But had Smash 4 started development around when the movie came out.....we would very likely have seen Zoroark in Smash regardless of the lack of success compared to Lucario.

They didn't even push Greninja TO Sakurai. He saw a design draft of the Pokémon among others and decided on it.

Gosh it's a good thing Sakurai watched the Lucario movie!