Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

Is there anything left in Animal Crossing not represented in the Smash fighter Villager that can be shaped into a playstyle? Is there anything you can do with collecting as a theme?

I still vouch for Isabelle having a comical terraforming style based around setting up public works projects and enacting ordinances to effect the stage. Basically, while not strong herself, she can set up these projects that'd impact the stage and the opponent, acting, fittingly, as a micromanager of sorts. It's hard to describe in full, but that's how I see her working.

 

[Luminario]

I still vouch for Isabelle having a comical terraforming style based around setting up public works projects and enacting ordinances to effect the stage. Basically, while not strong herself, she can set up these projects that'd impact the stage and the opponent, acting, fittingly, as a micromanager of sorts. It's hard to describe in full, but that's how I see her working.

How would you say the ordinances should be implemented? Fitting the PDPs into her moveset was pretty easy but I could never see how the ordinances could work as part of a fighters set.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd say its entirely possible.

But if it happens for anyone, it's gonna be for Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy.

Mega Man has some potential but I feel the others have more... obvious potential.

Pac-Man and Bayonetta have no one else worth including.

I think Sonic has the edge here cause of insane popularity of the other characters in the franchise. Plus Sonic has had one extra appearance with Brawl. It's ironical for me to say this, wanting Sonic specifically out of Brawl, but I do think Sonic is the only third party franchise truely deserving a second character.

Sonic has been appearing on Nintendo a lot lately, and even has more games than long running Nintendo franchises at the moment. Directs always give a lot of attention to new Sonic games, SEGA seems to favor Sonic appearing on Nintendo since of late. I don't like the prospect, but I think a Sonic newcomer is likely due to these objective observations.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly...

I'd love Tails, Chun-Li and Zero in Smash.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Honestly...

I'd love Tails, Chun-Li and Zero in Smash.

I wouldn't mind any those in Smash at all.

But, I will admit I want Dr. Eggman a little more from Sonic.

You got any from Final Fantasy you'd like to see, Swampasaur?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You got any from Final Fantasy you'd like to see, Swampasaur?

At this point in time I've only played Final Fantasy VII.

It was super fun.

That said I got more games from Final Fantasy in my backlog.

As a somewhat uneducated guy, I guess I gotta go with Lightning as she's another face of the series or Noctus cause he's new and popular.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

At this point in time I've only played Final Fantasy VII.

It was super fun.

That said I got more games from Final Fantasy in my backlog.

As a somewhat uneducated guy, I guess I gotta go with Lightning as she's another face of the series or Noctus cause he's new and popular.

FFVII is a good game. I've played almost all the main series Final Fantasy titles as in full releases except for FFXI, FFXIV, and FFXV.

For a second Final Fantasy character, I stated much often that I would want Bartz of FF5 coming in, him being my most wanted 3rd party character and all.

As of others, I wouldn't mind Terra of FF6 or the other Nintendo era Final Fantasy characters.

If Noctus does get a Nintendo appearance, then I wouldn't mind him, either.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

FFVII is a good game. I've played almost all the main series Final Fantasy titles as in full releases except for FFXI, FFXIV, and FFXV.

For a second Final Fantasy character, I stated much often that I would want Bartz of FF5 coming in, him being my most wanted 3rd party character and all.

As of others, I wouldn't mind Terra of FF6 or the other Nintendo era Final Fantasy characters.

If Noctus does get a Nintendo appearance, then I wouldn't mind him, either.

I'd actually like to try 5 or 6 but I don't have a method of getting the old versions which are apparently the only good ones.


That said, why Bartz or Terra?

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

I'd actually like to try 5 or 6 but I don't have a method of getting the old versions which are apparently the only good ones.


That said, why Bartz or Terra?

The case for Terra is FF6 has a good western following far as I know and she has a good potential with various spells and her "Trance" form with the Riot Blade attack is a Final Smash written in for her already. Plus, Square Enix likes showing her as a spellblade that doesn't use tomes and she's half human, half Esper summon. The Limit Break style mechanics have started in FF series with Terra's game as of the main, numbered series goes.

Bartz is considered the main protagonist of FF5. He's got every Job in FF5's Job System at his disposal which is a good assortment of abilities. FF5 had a loose sequel movie that isn't good compared to FF7: AC, but Bartz cameos in that not so good movie before Cloud starred in FF7: AC. His moveset potential is vast and Smash could bring that potential out. If I am not mistaken, Source Gaming did translate an article that Bartz was mentioned in that Sakurai thought of "Job Switching" as an interesting concept. Examples of "Jobs" available in FF5 are the Black Mage, Monk, Mimic, White Mage, Ninja, Blue Mage, Dancer, Bard, Knight, and a Red Mage.

Spoiler: FF5 Story and Mechanics

You actually gain jobs as the game world's crystal shatters, because you couldn't protect them in time. The shards' power grants you the "Jobs" you get in the game. You can have a customized team by mastering the jobs available or try to make them OP and try mastering them all. You gain new abilities as you master the Jobs at your party's disposal.

It's FF5's Job System with multiple weapons, spells, Jobs, and equipment that drew me in as a main reason for Bartz. For my personal bias, I think Bartz could represent the classic Final Fantasy games with the Job System that were on Nintendo games. It's a more preferred route, given that Dissidia NT and the original games bring that aspect out in Bartz. The less preferred route would be strictly focused on one job as Dissidia Final Fantasy and Duodecim did with him as a Mimic.

 

[FUNT1MER]

The case for Terra is FF6 has a good western following far as I know and she has a good potential with various spells and her "Trance" form with the Riot Blade attack is a Final Smash written in for her already. Plus, Square Enix likes showing her as a spellblade that doesn't use tomes and she's half human, half Esper summon. The Limit Break style mechanics have started in FF series with Terra's game as of the main, numbered series goes.

Bartz is considered the main protagonist of FF5. He's got every Job in FF5's Job System at his disposal which is a good assortment of abilities. FF5 had a loose sequel movie that isn't good compared to FF7: AC, but Bartz cameos in that not so good movie before Cloud starred in FF7: AC. His moveset potential is vast and Smash could bring that potential out. If I am not mistaken, Source Gaming did translate an article that Bartz was mentioned in that Sakurai thought of "Job Switching" as an interesting concept. Examples of "Jobs" available in FF5 are the Black Mage, Monk, Mimic, White Mage, Ninja, Blue Mage, Dancer, Bard, Knight, and a Red Mage.

Spoiler: FF5 Story and Mechanics

You actually gain jobs as the game world's crystal shatters, because you couldn't protect them in time. The shards' power grants you the "Jobs" you get in the game. You can have a customized team by mastering the jobs available or try to make them OP and try mastering them all. You gain new abilities as you master the Jobs at your party's disposal.

It's FF5's Job System with multiple weapons, spells, Jobs, and equipment that drew me in as a main reason for Bartz. For my personal bias, I think Bartz could represent the classic Final Fantasy games with the Job System that were on Nintendo games. It's a more preferred route, given that Dissidia NT and the original games bring that aspect out in Bartz. The less preferred route would be strictly focused on one job as Dissidia Final Fantasy and Duodecim did with him as a Mimic.

What about the Black Mage isn't he the face if the retro final fantasy games.

 

[Deleted member]

At this point in time I've only played Final Fantasy VII.

It was super fun.

That said I got more games from Final Fantasy in my backlog.

As a somewhat uneducated guy, I guess I gotta go with Lightning as she's another face of the series or Noctus cause he's new and popular.

Doesn't Lightning have a backlash effect where people got tired of her installments quickly?

Didn't help XIII was essentially nothing but hallways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Backlash or not, she is highly recognizable, or at least what Square pushes as the face(or did for a while).

Not my choice, though. I think Black Mage would be cool, but seeing as I don't mind generic classes/races over proper characters anyway, eh. I mean, Pokemon Trainer, Villager, these are both pure classes. Trainer's Pokemon are a little bit different, but the anime has given tons of Pokemon personality, so any Pokemon chosen can be more attributed to anime logic(with really exception of Greninja. Rest are whatever's hot at the time, and the anime tends to dictate that, as the movies are all anime-related too, after all).

I think what's honestly more important is a fun moveset. You can certainly still throw a personality onto a generic character anyway. As long as it has logic to it, no matter. Trainer basically has all the dialogue that the game uses by default, which is mostly the gameplay narration of the various actions of switching out. It's simple but accurate. Villager doesn't talk, but does show facial expressions and even dances like in the games. The idea isn't really to care whether they're generic or not. It's whether you can still make them feel like more than a mindless blob with moves.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not counting on any more Final Fantasy characters. Sure there's a plethora of possible candidates, but from Sakurai's statements about Cloud it seems like he was chosen as the "final fantasy character". It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Especially since SE has a decent amount of other material to work with as well, unlike someone such as Sega, where there's a pretty big drop after Sonic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there's any newcomer from Final Fantasy, am thinking they'll go for Black Mage to have a honorary Nintendo-based Square Final Fantasy character. He was pretty damn popular, and I just don't think any of the other protagonists from modern Final Fantasy games are recognisable enough. Cloud is huge, always was, but the others? Not so much.

If there's a new Sonic character I'd hope for Knuckles or Tails.

Anyway I just hope there's Nintendo newcomers from franchises I care about. I honestly would have NO objection against a Smash 4 port by the way, as I never owned a Wii U or Smash 4 anyway.

 

[Megadoomer]

I could see Square Enix adding a Dragon Quest character (no idea who, but it is MASSIVE in Japan), though I'd love to see Crono from Chrono Trigger.

 

[Deleted member]

Repost what I said on the BotW Link thread, but I find it quite ironic that, instead of a newcomer, we'll likely get revamped and based on their BotW appearances, to the point both and will be seen as completely different fighters.

After rereading this, I think what I wanted to mean has not been clear.

What I really wanted to say is that I find it quite ironic that a semi-clone will probably stay the same in the next Smash, while his model will very likely have several moveset overhauls, and thus the number of differences between these two will be even bigger.

 

[UserKev]

A second SEGA rep isn't very likely. Just, the likeness for a second rep works more positively in its favor as far as Sonic.

Sonic has a very healthy 50/50 at this point. That's what I voted.

 

[Schnee117]

We already have two SEGA characters in Smash 4 and I strongly doubt either are going anywhere.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

If there's any newcomer from Final Fantasy, am thinking they'll go for Black Mage to have a honorary Nintendo-based Square Final Fantasy character. He was pretty damn popular, and I just don't think any of the other protagonists from modern Final Fantasy games are recognisable enough. Cloud is huge, always was, but the others? Not so much.

If there's a new Sonic character I'd hope for Knuckles or Tails.

Anyway I just hope there's Nintendo newcomers from franchises I care about. I honestly would have NO objection against a Smash 4 port by the way, as I never owned a Wii U or Smash 4 anyway.

Right. Because in my (If 'U' were Sakurai) rosters for Brawl and Smash 4 I had two Sonic characters.
Sonic and Knuckles.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A second SEGA rep isn't very likely. Just, the likeness for a second rep works more positively in its favor as far as Sonic.

Sonic has a very healthy 50/50 at this point. That's what I voted.

Bayo is a second Sega rep. Just saying.

I do agree that it's unlikely to see another Sega rep who are added outside the ballot, though.

It also helps that the Sonic series branches out well beyond a simple set of core games. An entirely different world of core games(Boom), many characters having their own breakout games(Tails, Knuckles, Shadow), the fact it has multiple iconic characters who are nearly as recognizable as Sonic himself. This stuff helps.

Honestly the most likely reason we wouldn't get a second Sonic character(Boom aside since it's effectively a different series, and that's an iffy idea of having a chance) is if the developers have an arbitrary but hard set rule of one character per 3rd party franchise. It's a fan rule at this time(since there's nothing to suggest it's an official rule. At best it might be a coincidence of design via Sakurai's style).

 

[Curious Villager]

After rereading this, I think what I wanted to mean has not been clear.

What I really wanted to say is that I find it quite ironic that a semi-clone will probably stay the same in the next Smash, while his model will very likely have several moveset overhauls, and thus the number of differences between these two will be even bigger.

To be fair, if anyone really needs some changes, It's Link, since he wasn't very well designed since the beginning even when there wasn't a second Link besides him. Toon Link is fine the way he is for the most part, gameplay wise imo.

Which is probably also why Link is usually prioritized for any moveset changes while Toon Link kept the old playstyle for the most part.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly the most likely reason we wouldn't get a second Sonic character(Boom aside since it's effectively a different series, and that's an iffy idea of having a chance) is if the developers have an arbitrary but hard set rule of one character per 3rd party franchise. It's a fan rule at this time(since there's nothing to suggest it's an official rule. At best it might be a coincidence of design via Sakurai's style).

Boom wouldn't be considered "separate". It may have a different continuity, but it's still Sonic.
Just like how the Battle Network, the Star Force, and the Legends sub-series of the Mega Man series are still considered part of the overall franchise in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there's a third party developer I say stands a far greater chance than Square of having a new character then it's gotta be Namco. Especially if Smash 4 gets ported and Namco helps in developing the game again. Pretty sure they would go for a Tekken or Soul Calibur character, possibly both? I see Heiachi and Nightmare as strong contenders that are often overlooked. Out of the two, I prefer Nightmare but both would be okay.

Capcom will likely keep Ryu and Mega Man, but also has a chance of having a new character.

SEGA will very likely just keep Bayonetta and Sonic, and Sonic might bring a friend. I just hope it's not Shadow, and if he is, he should be a semi-clone.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Boom wouldn't be considered "separate". It may have a different continuity, but it's still Sonic.
Just like how the Battle Network, the Star Force, and the Legends sub-series of the Mega Man series are still considered part of the overall franchise in Smash.

I agree with that, but I meant more than Sonic and Boom!Sonic are completely different characters, just like Link and Toon Link are. That's the only reason Boom characters could get in, because it's its own thing.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's be honest here, no matter which of the major options for a secondary Sonic character is added, they will be semi-clones of Sonic by default unless it's Eggman due to how they typically function in the series.

Not that it's a bad thing, as they all have ways to be distinct while having core similarities to Sonic, just like in the series proper.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If there's a third party developer I say stands a far greater chance than Square of having a new character then it's gotta be Namco. Especially if Smash 4 gets ported and Namco helps in developing the game again. Pretty sure they would go for a Tekken or Soul Calibur character, possibly both? I see Heiachi and Nightmare as strong contenders that are often overlooked. Out of the two, I prefer Nightmare but both would be okay.

Capcom will likely keep Ryu and Mega Man, but also has a chance of having a new character.

SEGA will very likely just keep Bayonetta and Sonic, and Sonic might bring a friend. I just hope it's not Shadow, and if he is, he should be a semi-clone.

Bandai-Namco. Not just Namco. Remember, the company is the same one and it worked on Smash. It only broadens the options. Although it would help if Bandai had more notable game series beyond Digimon, but we shouldn't pretend they're off the table. Besides that, Tekken and Soul Calibur are the biggest series. Tales of is way too niche to have a character. Smash 4 only has multiple regular Namco stuff because Pac-Man was being pushed with tons of Arcade stuff. Also, there was very few good Mii costumes to provide from Bandai that could work among the actual classes. Besides that, Soul Calibur is entirely unmentioned in 4, compared to Tales of, tons of Arcade, and Tekken. So it may or may not be a relevant series to Smash, anymore than Digimon currently is.

It's complicated and considering a niche series got a mention over a bigger one, we don't honestly know exactly what the idea is for how the content was handled. It seems more like it was series Sakurai thought had a popular character choice(Tales of) or one he thought about putting in(Tekken). Arcade is just basically there due to Pac-Man being an arcade representation, which made it much easier to put that kind of content in Smash Run. It didn't "come out of nowhere". Besides, Bandai-Namco is most known for their Classic Arcade stuff than anything else. Working on the game made it pretty easy to justify having tons of content(including the Pac-Man point above, that made it even easier).

 

[wildvine47]

SEGA: Tails or Eggman. No one else should even have a shot. Knuckles maybe, but only after Tails and Eggman are both in. My bet is on Tails, but Eggman using his SA2 Egg Walker would be my ideal second rep. No other series even comes close. Stuff like Monkey Ball or NiGHTS would be lucky to get trophies.

Capcom: Protoman, X, Wily, god anyone BUT Zero for Megaman. I'm honest to god sick of Zero being in everything. X would be the best option for me considering y'know, the MMX franchise is HIS and it's the other big popular Nintendo-related Megaman subseries. But with how Capcom slaps Zero into anything they can (still bitter he's in Infinite), I'd not be surprised if Zero took precedence over X again :/ If it's Street Fighter getting a second rep, Chun-Li is a definite. No way it'd be anyone other than her, unless we get a last minute Ken clone. And then M. Bison after them. As for other series, Resident Evil could definitely use a rep. Jill with her RE1 design would be the best choice, but Leon would also be alright. No Chris please, he's in a similar position to Zero for me. Not as bad, but he's getting there.

Namco: Heihachi. He's a shoe-in for the next non-port Smash imo, considering Sakurai's statements on him. Tales series has an outside shot of getting a character, but it's chump change compared to how big Tekken is for Namco. My ideal unrealistic rep would be Agumon so one game could have Mario vs. Sonic, Link vs. Cloud, AND Pikachu vs. Agumon, but Pokemon vs. Digimon was only ever a thing in the US, and not as much in Japan, so I don't think he's got that much of a chance.

Konami: Snake comes back first. Then Simon Belmont and Bomberman. Done and done.

Square: Terra and/or Black Mage and/or a Dragon Quest character. Terra would be ideal as she's got the benefit of not being a generic archetype like Black Mage, and that her game is probably the most popular and beloved of the Nintendo-based FF's (Though FF4 may provide some competition). She's also got more name recognition, considering how most probably couldn't tell you the name of any DQ protag (cue people listing them off to me). I sure can't.

Honestly though, as much as I'd love some of these characters, I really want more companies to get in on the Smash Bros. party. Gimme Crash, gimme Rayman, gimme Scorpion, gimme Ryu Hayabusa, gimme Banjo-Kazooie PLEASE. Indies I'm less keen on, but if they have to come, Shovel Knight and Shantae are the only options worth discussing, and even then I'd say it'd be best for them to come as a pair at the same time. Alone they'd stick out like a sore thumb IMO.

Wow that ended up being way longer than I thought it'd be.

 

[Notshane]

Sakurai left Hal over a decade ago so i am not sure how much involvement they have had since melee. I guess they do have the experience but alot has probably changed and idk if they would be up to take over smash if sakurai & his sora team are done. Just a thought.

HAL Laboratory also helped with Brawl, you know. That is about a decade ago now, but they still assisted with development, even if it was simply to offer development tools for Sakurai to use. If they still have those tools, there's no doubt they could assist Nintendo with them as well.

Or better yet, Sakurai might feel guilt due to the success of the Switch, crack under the pressure and make a new one himself anyway. I'd feel bad if that happened, but as a Smash fan, I can't deny I'd be excited if that were the case. However, I have my doubts it will surpass the roster of Sm4sh and may very well have less characters, not even counting contracts expiring for certain third-parties that previously appeared in Sm4sh.

 

[WB97]

Out of curiosity...are there any realistic third-parties characters you guys are hoping DON'T get into the next Smash Bros? (inb4 everyone replies Steve from Minecraft XD)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mega Man: Zero of Mega Man X, some of the Robot Masters, Dr. Wily, and Sigma

Wait what? You think some random Robot Masters have more of a chance of being a playable character than Proto Man and Bass?

 

[Deleted member]

To continue on the Link/Zelda BotW overhaul topic, I can also see Toon Zelda getting added as a Zelda newcomer whom the main purpose is to be a semi-clone who inherits of her old gameplay.

(And even then people will complain we'll get 3 incarnations of Zelda in the roster)

 

[Luminario]

Out of curiosity...are there any realistic third-parties characters you guys are hoping DON'T get into the next Smash Bros? (inb4 everyone replies Steve from Minecraft XD)

This question just radiates drama, I love it.
I'm not looking forward to Heihachi, simply because I really don't like him as a character and I don't particularly see what he'll bring to the table that's new and exciting.

 

[WB97]

This question just radiates drama, I love it.
I'm not looking forward to Heihachi, simply because I really don't like him as a character and I don't particularly see what he'll bring to the table that's new and exciting.

Surely we can look past whatever differences of opinion we have in regards to non-Nintendo content and respectfully disagree should anyone have an opinion another doesn't like?

(Then again I have been told over on the SG Discord this place can get rather tribal when it comes to character candidates)

SN: Not gonna lie, if we were to get a Tekken character I'd prefer Kazuya or Jin over Heihachi due to their demonic abilities.

 

[Opossum]

Out of curiosity...are there any realistic third-parties characters you guys are hoping DON'T get into the next Smash Bros? (inb4 everyone replies Steve from Minecraft XD)

Rayman bores me to no end. It's to the point that I'd honestly prefer the Rabbids getting in over him.

 

[Deleted member]

Rayman bores me to no end. It's to the point that I'd honestly prefer the Rabbids getting in over him.

Be careful on your wording, you risk to trigger a certain "PJ" user once again. :V

EDIT: I made a reference to the wrong person.

 

[Luminario]

(Then again I have been told over on the SG Discord this place can get rather tribal when it comes to character candidates)

If you're not ready to go to war in a feral rage over characters on here then what's the point?

 

[WB97]

If you're not ready to go to war in a feral rage over characters on here then what's the point?

I mean if I wanted to I could probably start ****storms left and right regarding character candidates, but contrary to what some people may tell you I am not out to start fires and watch Smashboards burn. I'm just here to have fun, share and discuss ideas, speculate on the future of Smash , etc.

Who knows though? Maybe there will be some points of contention down the line I will get involved with

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I know that the topic of custom special moves has been talked about already, but I do still feel that they need another chance.

Of course, the only problem is knowing that the developers will try to make custom special moves that are just pure garbage. My own moveset hacks do try to fix up those flaws, so that way, the custom special moves that were handled poorly would at least have some degree of viability.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just ordered a 3DS XL with the games Ocarina of Time 3D and Hyrule Warriors. Am hoping to find DKCR for a cheap price as well. As I basically just ordered the thing because I missed playing DKCR, but I didn't want to play it with the Wii remote anymore.

So now I can legitimately ***** about Nintendo stuff, cause I'm a damn customer again.

Since I got a 3DS XL on the way, I think I'll give Xenoblade a try as well. Hopefully, I'm feeling it.

I'll probably try and get my hands on Star Fox 64 as I missed the original N64 game, and I feel that if you remake a game 1000 times, it's probably good. Ocarina of Time is good, so this should also be good. No reason not to.

Fire Emblem Awakening and New FE2 will also be purchased, as will Metroid 2 when it comes out.

Also I still hope for the time Smash will include stuff I like. So for the moment being, I'll probably won't purchase Smash 3DS unless it comes really cheap. And I also feel sort of hesistant cause I'm expecting a Smash 4 port and if I want to buy one of the versions, I don't want the inferior one.

 

[Deleted member]

Since I got a 3DS XL on the way, I think I'll give Xenoblade a try as well. Hopefully, I'm feeling it.

That's really nice, I just hope the 3DS XL you ordered is a New 3DS XL and not a regular (otherwise you won't be able to play it). :$