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Super Smash Bros Brawl: Sorting Fact from Fiction

lordvaati

Smash Master
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In my free time, I like doing rant vids on youtube discussing whatever in Smash Bros.

archive is here, if you want to know.http://http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263106

anyway, since my computer I use for the vids is all messed up, I decided instead to turn one of my rants into a discussion here, and hear what you guys have to say.

In our community, we have many debates over super Smash Bros Brawl. Many people consider it to be the Spider-Man 3 of the series. others say that it gets way more flak then it deserves. I listened to some of these comments and got irritated by most. we are like a family here, and we do all care about each other- we all were sad when NES n00b died. but like any family, we have disagreements. I will clear up most of the most common myths with the cold, hard, facts of it all.

Myth: Nintendo/Sakurai removed ATs to get rid of Competitive play.

Fact: Nintendo Removed Ats to accomadate the different control styles. it's kind of silly how easy people forget that the gamecube controller isn't the only controller used for Brawl. True, it is the most common method, but not the only. a Majority of Players use the cube controller, but Majority=/= Entirety. there are people out there who perfer playing using the remote/ nunchuck method with Brawl, and even some who perfer using the remote. I have met people like this at conventions, and even some on this site. just because some methods translate to one controller doesn't mean it can translate to 4. as an example, try booting up Brawl + and playing using the Wiimote. Of all the ATs, the only one intentionally removed for sure was Wavedashing, because of the new engine for air dodges.
At the end of the day, you guys should be lucky that you can even use cube controllers- if they felt like it, they could have restricted the control methods, leaving Cube-tactics behind.
And if they do make #4, we might not be so lucky.

Myth:Captain Falcon and Sheik were fine as is. they didn't need to be nerfed.

Fact:Oh yes they did. Captain Falcon was a fairly rounded out character. he was the fastest in the game, and was very storng, but was balanced out with Slow attacks....at least, he was supposed to. but an experimental new move they gave him got around that: his Forward air. Known by many as the Falcon Knee, or the Knee Of Justice, or simply the Knee, this powerful move combined his sdpeed with a move with a large hitbox and godly knockback, which was unsurprisingly the best killing move in the game. but that was the problem-it was TOO GOOD. it got around what was supposed to be his weakness(his killing moves being slow) and was easier to score direct hits with then indirect. I'm not going to lie- I liked the knee as much as the next guy, but when push comes to shove, the **** thing had to get nerfed. and peple couldn't stand it. these same people need to undestand that with experiments, sometimes something doesn't go as planned. it happened in 64 too- with Kirby's insane Up tilt, and it happens again in Brawl with the Shuttle loop and snake's up tilt. accidents happen-and they get fixed later on. the nerfing of Cap wasn't so much from the knee losing power but from the new game engine, which he wasn't designed for. And on the subject of myths from fact, it was Black shadow's machine, not the Falcon Punch, that made the Galaxy explode. just had to get it out there.

As for Sheik, there isn't really enough time to explain why she needed nerfing, so here's it in a Nutshell: when Nintendo created Zelda, she was desined as a character who had to alternate between two forms to cover the other's weaknesses and strengths: Zelda was supposed to be slow but strong, and Sheik was supposed to be fast, but weak. unfortunately, Sheik ended up being stronger then expected-much, Much stronger. with strength and speed, Sheik no longer needed Zelda, for anything except for maybe recovery. as such, less people played Zelda then those who used Pichu. This was not what was intended. so in Brawl, Zelda got buffs aand Sheik got NECESSARY NERFS. people then realized that using them togeter worked much better then alonbe-like how it was supposed to be in Melee. but alas, people still raged.


Myth: Metaknight breaks the games balance. Metaknight is More Broken then Akuma. Metaknight is responsible for the recession, blah blah blah...

Fact: Metaknight is Overrated. probably the most overrated character since Necrid in Soul Calibur II. Now I'm not saying he isn't powerful- he is one of the best in the game, no doubt about that- but now it seems less like Metaknight is really Powerful and More Like people want to Make Metaknight really powerful. whenever a discussion pops up about how a character goes 50/50 with the guy, a ****ton of people show up and debate how the mask ball is 70/30 with everyone, beats everyone, can only be beaten by another one, blah blah blah. face the facts: MK DOES have 50/50 matches outside himself. Just like how everyone one didn't like Nec because" OMG he haz oter character's moves, he should be banned!!" even though Necrid is not nearly as good as everyone hyped him to be. Embrce the change world: MK ISN'T GAME BREAKING.

This is but part 1 of 2 parts. Part 2 I might do tomorrow, if i'm on a computer.
 

UltiMario

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This is the best post of seen in a long time.

Better than the entirely of the Meta Knight discussion thread for the MK part.
 

Big-Cat

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I'm curious though, as to the following:

Why was the air dodge system changed?
Why didn't the developer's take into account that the reduced hitstun screwed Capt. Falcon over big time?
If Zelda and Sheik are supposed to work in tandem, why is it that switching in the middle of battle is suicide because of the insane loading times?

I'm not going to touch the MK issue other than people also said the same thing for Necrid as they did for Seth (his boss form was broken though) as well. People jump to conclusions in the area.
 

Blackrider213

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I'm guessing the airdodge system was changed just to prevent wavedashing. A secondary thing would be that it makes the physics more realistic.
 

Big-Cat

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I'm guessing the airdodge system was changed just to prevent wavedashing. A secondary thing would be that it makes the physics more realistic.
*facepalm* if that is the actual reasoning behind it.
 

Problem2

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If I remember correctly, Sakurai stated that the Gamecube controller was perfect for Smash Bros and that he didn't want to give it up. Not saying that he wouldn't make changes to accommodate for all control types because he certainly did (ie hold A for jab combos). It's just I doubt that they would remove the option to use GCN controller.
 

ETWIST51294

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I agreed with everything but the CF part. The knee too good? ROFL

You get punished just for whiffing it, and since it's CF you get punished HARD. And you always have to set it up. You can just go around throwin it out like with Sheiks slap. Sheik DID deserve to be nerfed, but not that hard.
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
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Yeah, Sakurai said numerous times that he did not want to design the game based around the Wii controller. He said he'd make it compatible, but not the primary control scheme.
 

Big-Cat

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I just want to see what's going to happen assuming the next Smash isn't compatible with the GC Controller.
 

lordvaati

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If I remember correctly, Sakurai stated that the Gamecube controller was perfect for Smash Bros and that he didn't want to give it up. Not saying that he wouldn't make changes to accommodate for all control types because he certainly did (ie hold A for jab combos). It's just I doubt that they would remove the option to use GCN controller.
I'll give you that. Brawl was anounced at the Same time as the Wii debut., if he announced it leter, for all we know it would work on Classic controller(see: Smash 64)



I agreed with everything but the CF part. The knee too good? ROFL

You get punished just for whiffing it, and since it's CF you get punished HARD. And you always have to set it up. You can just go around throwin it out like with Sheiks slap. Sheik DID deserve to be nerfed, but not that hard.
Today 07:23 PM
I don't mean the knee shot him up straight to top tier. the problem was that it got around his weakness.

We'll by adapters >_>
LOL

I'm curious though, as to the following:

Why was the air dodge system changed?
Why didn't the developer's take into account that the reduced hitstun screwed Capt. Falcon over big time?
If Zelda and Sheik are supposed to work in tandem, why is it that switching in the middle of battle is suicide because of the insane loading times?

I'm not going to touch the MK issue other than people also said the same thing for Necrid as they did for Seth (his boss form was broken though) as well. People jump to conclusions in the area.
-most likely so failing an airdodge isn't so punishable, since you no longer become helpless.

-Blame Havok. also, I don't think many pople in NIntendo offices or their beta testers play Smash as competitively as we do, so it's not so noticeable.

-I think they made more invincible frames during transformation, so that kind of remedys that problem.
 

ETWIST51294

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CF is overrated imo.

His weaknesses are being combo'd by everyone and being techchased by everyone. And only having ONE(yes one) safe approach and having a terrible recovery.
 

Big-Cat

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We'll buy adapters >_>

I spelled buy wrong >_>
The only way I can think of that working is it plugs into the USB port of the console.

Still, I find the GC Controller to be really wonky for a game that relies on execution.

-most likely so failing an airdodge isn't so punishable, since you no longer become helpless.

-Blame Havok. also, I don't think many pople in NIntendo offices or their beta testers play Smash as competitively as we do, so it's not so noticeable.

-I think they made more invincible frames during transformation, so that kind of remedys that problem.
1. Then why not go for something like the hybrid Air Dodge in one of the Brawl mods?
2. I don't think hitstun has anything to do with the physics engine.
3. Reall? If so, how does that remedy the problem? Can you do anything during those frames?
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
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You have a good point on the GameCube control most likely not going to be compatible with the next Nintendo Console and Smash Bros game.
That's really going to s**k for Melee and Brawl Vets, so much easier to do ATs because of the Cstick.
 
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