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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

KoopaSaki

Smash Ace
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Sep 16, 2018
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559
Hey guys its been a long time since I posted on this thread since I usually lurk around the Geno thread these days, but given the news that Golden Sunday is coming later this month and having awesome new videos being uploaded by Billybae10k making me believe in Golden Sun returning, I decided to make another smash animation similar to the one I made for Geno a little while back. I'll be sure to get it done by Golden Sunday on the 28th!
 

walugurl

Smash Journeyman
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Sep 16, 2020
Messages
490
Hear me out - Why not both? I think the Camelot Bros both have a valid shot, and valid reasons, for being upgraded to a playable status.​
Let's factor in a few aspects of DLC that we know to be the case:​
Characters must come with a stage, a DLC Spirit Board and a selection of music.​
Characters must bring something unique to their playstyle that differentiates themselves from the base roster.​
The only exception to this is Plant.​
If you look at every DLC fighter except Plant, all of them adhere to that second requirement. Joker has Arsene, Hero has the Command Menu, Banjo has the Wonderwing, Terry has Go Sauce, Byleth has weapons tied to different directions in a way we hadn't seen before, Min Min has her insane reach & unique specials & Steve has the Mine/Craft/Block Place mechanic.​
Now, for Isaac, he could easily have a unique "mechanic" that revolves around Djinn, summons or just general psynergy attacks. In Waluigi's case, I'm not certain as to what unique "mechanic" he would bring to the table, there's nothing that really "stands" out in that aspect.​
I'd be more inclined to believe Waluigi was a "bonus fighter" similar to Plant, if he does get in. No hate to Waluigi, far from it - I just don't really like the idea of paying for a DLC where the only spirits we get revolve around Mario Sports. Feels like a step down from pretty much every other DLC spirit board, in that sense.​
Why do people look down on the sport series?
 

Billybae10K

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Why do people look down on the sport series?
I'm not "looking down" on the sport series. In fact, Mario Golf Advance, on the GBA, is one of my favourite games on the console. I'm a fan of Camelot's work, I'm not going to slam them, so please don't put words in my mouth.

But when you compare spirits, it just doesn't feel exciting to me. The spirits for all the current DLC fighters are new spirits, never before seen characters in Smash - Whereas with the sport series, it's just reskins of various Mario characters in new clothing. That doesn't personally do it for me.
 

LegendOfDragoon

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Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
447
Why do people look down on the sport series?
You realize the same people who make the majority of the sports games also make our games, right? We don't hate the Sports titles, in fact, I love them and the developers. I just believe Isaac brings more to the table than Waluigi would in this specific instance. I would love to see both in eventually.
 

7NATOR

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Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,062
Actually I do gotta ask, If it's suggested that we are only getting One Assist Trophy Promotion in the Pass (if we are getting one), are we gonna go to Warfare? Cause I know you guys want Isaac, Waluigi Fans Want Waluigi, Me and Many other Fans want Shadow, and The Skull Kid Fans want Skull Kid, and etc
 
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Billybae10K

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Actually I do gotta ask, If it's suggested that we are only getting One Assist Trophy Promotion in the Pass (if we are getting one), are we gonna go to Warfare? Cause I know you guys want Isaac, Waluigi Fans Want Waluigi, Me and Many other Fans want Shadow, and The Skull Kid Fans want Skull Kid, and etc
In my case, nah. I don't really have the drive or desire to have a full on war with anyone else - I'm content with sitting back, hoping, and moving on regardless of the outcome. The Smash Community admittedly has quite the reputation for people "warring" over characters, and that's just not my style. Hope & ask for who floats your boat.
 

FlawedAI

Smash Ace
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Jul 26, 2016
Messages
833
We don't really do "wars" or anything. We're known for being the chill fanbase, and I'd rather we keep it that way.

As for Waluigi, I'd love to see him in the game. A Waluigi Pinball stage would be sick, and the sports games are severely underrepped in Smash. That said, to me personally, as others have said, Waluigi makes more sense as a bonus fighter like Plant without a stage/spirit board. And like others have said, Camelot is responsible for the sports games (as well as Waluigi himself) so we don't "look down" on them, in fact, one of my most wanted Switch games is a new Mario Sluggers game (which is made by Namco, but I digress).

Whichever character Nintendo wants we'll get. It's my personal opinion (as well as some others on this board) that Nintendo would pick Isaac because of a new game and popularity, and Sakurai would agree because Djinn and Psynergy bring something new to the table and he gets a chance to please lots of fans.
 

ZelDan

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All I'm going to say is, while I much prefer Isaac to Waluigi, Waluigi could definitely get a fighter's pack. They could have something like Waluigi Pinball as a stage, and have music and spirits based on various Mario spinoff stuff. I also recognize that Waluigi does have one thing that could get him in Smash over Isaac, that being more widespread, mainstream appeal.

That said, If Nintendo wanted to go for a "K Rool." or "Banjo" for FP2 and use the Smash 4 Ballot, then that's where Isaac has an advantage. That or if the rumors and stuff regarding a new GS actually come true, then Isaac could have a promotional edge over Waluigi.

Really if AT promotions are something on the table, either Isaac or Waluigi could very well make it in. Maybe even both (though I kinda doubt it).
 

jweb23

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Jul 4, 2015
Messages
416
Actually I do gotta ask, If it's suggested that we are only getting One Assist Trophy Promotion in the Pass (if we are getting one), are we gonna go to Warfare? Cause I know you guys want Isaac, Waluigi Fans Want Waluigi, Me and Many other Fans want Shadow, and The Skull Kid Fans want Skull Kid, and etc
Going to “war” over something we have zero control over sounds pretty silly to me.

As others have said and I have also said, I’m not against any video game characters getting in. This is simply a speculation thread and I have plenty of opinions lol. Some a little tinfoil hat like, but most based in what’s already been presented along with information we have. I’m also not trying to be down on certain characters either, but if someone brings up a character who I feel may not be likely...I’m gonna state my opinion and see if they have any info that could change how I’m thinking.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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Hey guys its been a long time since I posted on this thread since I usually lurk around the Geno thread these days, but given the news that Golden Sunday is coming later this month and having awesome new videos being uploaded by Billybae10k making me believe in Golden Sun returning, I decided to make another smash animation similar to the one I made for Geno a little while back. I'll be sure to get it done by Golden Sunday on the 28th!
So good to see you back man, I didn't know you dabbled in animation too!? Really looking forward to what you come up with
 

walugurl

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Sep 16, 2020
Messages
490
There’s not gonna be another bonus fighter, the only reason pirahna plant was, was because he didn’t make it to base game. Waluigi is either a dlc pack or not.
 

Lenidem

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Oct 14, 2018
Messages
1,181
Actually I do gotta ask, If it's suggested that we are only getting One Assist Trophy Promotion in the Pass (if we are getting one), are we gonna go to Warfare? Cause I know you guys want Isaac, Waluigi Fans Want Waluigi, Me and Many other Fans want Shadow, and The Skull Kid Fans want Skull Kid, and etc
It would break my heart, but I guess I would pic Isaac. The Zelda franchise deserves more playable characters, but its global representation is actually great while the Golden Sun franchise needs at least one playable fighter with one stage; that should be the bare minimum.
 
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Dendros

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Do you think it's possible that they do what they did with bowser jr. And put in all 8 party members from GS1 and GS2 as pallets swaps? It there any feasible moveset that would fit all of them?

I would expect them to at least put in Isaac and felix as they are pretty interchangable.
 
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Kalaam

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808
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Do you think it's possible that they do what they did with bowser jr. And put in all 8 party members from GS1 and GS2 as pallets swaps? It there any feasible moveset that would fit all of them?

I would expect them to at least put in Isaac and felix as they are pretty interchangable.
Isaac/Felix/Matthew is possible. All 8? No. Too many different builds, weapons and abilities. Even within the same element. Garet and Jenna are way diffrent, same with Piers and Mia. Sheba and Ivan could work, but not with Felix and Isaac on top of it.
 

FlawedAI

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I've always thought that Isaac's recolors would be the 7 other party members (possibly with a Matthew alt replacing Piers because of how close he is to Mia). It could work even better if Felix was an alt costume (like Alex or female Byleth) but I'd rather him show up as an Echo later on down the line. Isaac is enough for me for now.
 

Pinguino21v

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In Waluigi's case, I'm not certain as to what unique "mechanic" he would bring to the table, there's nothing that really "stands" out in that aspect.
I always think that Waluigi unique "mechanic" would simply be "cheating". He is a trickster.

I see him swim in thin air as a recovery, have tricks, stuns, a counter, breaking the fourth wall... But I don't have any idea that could be a fair cheating mechanic. I mean, stealing stocks would be a bit too much.
 

7NATOR

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Waluigi Most Important Role was in Mario Dance Dance Revolution, So Waluigi could Play like if Micheal Jackson was in Smash, He can even do the Moonwalk and the Leak since those aren't Trademarked...
 

jweb23

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So I was thinking about possible alt colors for Isaac, if he does get in, and I’m thinking along the same lines as Billybae10K Billybae10K . But I was also thinking of something different. I was thinking of something similar to how Link’s alt colors are. Link has six colors and then a Dark Link alt and a Fierce Deity alt.

So what if Isaac could have six normal color alts (normal look, Garet colors, Ivan colors, Mia colors, Felix colors and Kraden colors) but the last two would be a bit different where Isaac’s skin and hair color would change to match Saturos and Menardi’s colors?

I admit it would probably look wild but I think it would be kinda cool.
 

MeatOfJustice

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I always think that Waluigi unique "mechanic" would simply be "cheating". He is a trickster.

I see him swim in thin air as a recovery, have tricks, stuns, a counter, breaking the fourth wall... But I don't have any idea that could be a fair cheating mechanic. I mean, stealing stocks would be a bit too much.
Oh, I know! He could cheat by summoning items, even when you turn them off. Of course, they wouldn't be overpowered stuff, except for an equivalent of Peach pulling a Bob-Omb/Mr. Saturn.
 

SonicLink125

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But I thought Waluigi was a Physics Adept since he breaks the laws of the universe on what a human can do.
Ah! You see, Mercury Adepts have always had this power. It’s just that Waluigi is the only one so far to tap into said power.
I mean, why do you think Alex (a Mercury Adept) was after the Golden Sun’s Power that whole time? To go beyond what Waluigi accomplished. lol

Unless you go by SuperStar Saga where Luigi is a Jupiter Adept.

And congrats on your 1337th message!
Wait, what?!?
 
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NessAtc.

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Nothing says Isaac is the most likely either.
Nothing says anyone is the most likely assist trophy getting promoted, because that was never why a character got promoted from being an assist trophy or spirit. It was always about their series being chosen. They don't sit around a table and say "hey we should promote an assist trophy" or anything like that, that's ridiculous and we know for a fact that's not how it happens.
 

amageish

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I don't really see Waluigi and Isaac uniquely at odds with each other either. I don't think its controversial to say that Waluigi would be a pretty bad Golden Sun rep due to checks notes not being a Golden Sun character and Isaac would be a pretty bad Mario rep due to checks notes not being a Mario character.

Any AT could be upgraded for their own merits, but it doesn't speak to the demerits of other ATs or anything... If Isaac gets in, then I imagine it'd be a mix of popularity + franchise revival. His AT status wouldn't be involved.
 

Guynamednelson

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They are definitely looking at merits other than "this fighter was represented in a cheap way but now they're not." Look at Charizard's Brawl Dojo page, and the directs which reveal Little Mac, Dark Samus*, and Isabelle*-their previous representation was completely ignored, and Sakurai solely talked about Little Mac's gameplay, not his AT, in the April 2014 Smash 4 Direct.

*Clones are still representing a character in a cheap way anyway.
 
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TempestSurge

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Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
I don't really see Waluigi and Isaac uniquely at odds with each other either. I don't think its controversial to say that Waluigi would be a pretty bad Golden Sun rep due to checks notes not being a Golden Sun character and Isaac would be a pretty bad Mario rep due to checks notes not being a Mario character.

Any AT could be upgraded for their own merits, but it doesn't speak to the demerits of other ATs or anything... If Isaac gets in, then I imagine it'd be a mix of popularity + franchise revival. His AT status wouldn't be involved.
The odds seem to mainly come from people viewing the characters from their assist trophy status and not based on their series as NessAtc. NessAtc. pointed out.

It would seem silly if Waluigi getting the assist upgrade made Sakurai throw up his arms all, 'Well I just used up my one assist trophy promotion card on Waluigi. I am now unable to put in a Golden Sun character.'
 
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Diddy Kong

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There’s not gonna be another bonus fighter, the only reason pirahna plant was, was because he didn’t make it to base game. Waluigi is either a dlc pack or not.
Well, wouldn't the last character count as such? Because the way FP2 was presented, Fighter 6 seemed as "extra". And I kinda think it's a character from a series already presented in Smash.
 

7NATOR

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I think The Assist actually would matter in the characters inclusion's in Two Opposite ends of the spectrum

Negative: If the Characters is felt to be Represented Strongly already with the Assist, then there might be less need to Represent them as a Playable fighter.

Positive: As we've Seen with Bomberman, AT Models can be Cleaned up, and Put on the Skeleton of a Mii fighter, which is Much easier (I assume) then making a Brand New Model from Scratch. Whether Waluigi would use Falcon or Bayo as a base, Isaac use Roy as a Base, Shadow use Sonic as a Base, Skull Kid use Ness as a Base, They already have Models in the game that could be used for Playable characters after Cleaning up the model, and because there has been requests for AT Fighters like Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid, and others, I think it could be win-win. This could also be why we have 6 Characters in FP2 instead of 5 like with FP1
 

FlawedAI

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I think The Assist actually would matter in the characters inclusion's in Two Opposite ends of the spectrum

Negative: If the Characters is felt to be Represented Strongly already with the Assist, then there might be less need to Represent them as a Playable fighter.

Positive: As we've Seen with Bomberman, AT Models can be Cleaned up, and Put on the Skeleton of a Mii fighter, which is Much easier (I assume) then making a Brand New Model from Scratch. Whether Waluigi would use Falcon or Bayo as a base, Isaac use Roy as a Base, Shadow use Sonic as a Base, Skull Kid use Ness as a Base, They already have Models in the game that could be used for Playable characters after Cleaning up the model, and because there has been requests for AT Fighters like Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid, and others, I think it could be win-win. This could also be why we have 6 Characters in FP2 instead of 5 like with FP1
You make a good point with your "positive" section, there is less work involved in "upgrading" Assists because they already have a model to work with. As for the "negative" side, I personally don't think that is the case, as seen by Bomberman's Mii Costume, which definitively proves that the team is willing to go back to base game Assists for DLC content. Bomberman probably got a Mii Costume because Sakurai wasn't satisfied with how he was represented and how many people wanted him as a playable character. That part, in particular, matters for Isaac because he already has a Mii Costume, so the only further representation is to become a playable character. I don't doubt that Isaac is on Sakurai's mind (if only because he likes pleasing fans) and if Nintendo decided Isaac was a good choice, I think he'd go for it, not even concerned that he's already an Assist because he wants to give the character more representation, not the other way around.
 

TempestSurge

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Oct 20, 2014
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I think The Assist actually would matter in the characters inclusion's in Two Opposite ends of the spectrum

Negative: If the Characters is felt to be Represented Strongly already with the Assist, then there might be less need to Represent them as a Playable fighter.

Positive: As we've Seen with Bomberman, AT Models can be Cleaned up, and Put on the Skeleton of a Mii fighter, which is Much easier (I assume) then making a Brand New Model from Scratch. Whether Waluigi would use Falcon or Bayo as a base, Isaac use Roy as a Base, Shadow use Sonic as a Base, Skull Kid use Ness as a Base, They already have Models in the game that could be used for Playable characters after Cleaning up the model, and because there has been requests for AT Fighters like Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid, and others, I think it could be win-win. This could also be why we have 6 Characters in FP2 instead of 5 like with FP1
I don't think Sakurai necessarily makes a character an assist because he feels that's good enough representation for the character per se. A fully playable character gives you a stage, more music and a full moveset to better represent the world the character comes from. There's just only so many fully playable characters that Sakurai can add to a game so an assist is just another way to represent a franchise that did not make it to playable status.

Though an assist can only represent so much of a character's potential. Isaac's assist especially doesn't represent what he's known for. If I didn't play Golden Sun. I wouldn't even begin to think that he could manipulate earth by just looking at him.
 
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