Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[NessAtc.]

I disagree, jweb. Assuming Isaac is in FP2, CP7 is the position that makes the most sense for him to be in. This was the character that was likely going to be revealed at the same time as Min Min, and we have very solid reason to believe that Golden Sun would have been at E3, since the trademarks got settled a bit before when E3 should have been.

Given that insiders heard that Pikmin 3 Deluxe was April, and that got delayed afterwards, I firmly believe that the news that Naz's source heard detailing GSHD for November was NOT the original release window, but actually the post delay window. It's far, far more convincing that a leak would occur with news of a delay than just... randomly off the cuff. Especially since Naz's source didn't have GS prior to it.

 

[Kalaam]

I think the reason Banjo is kinda neglected is because he's a projectile heavy character that stalls and camps quite a bit.
Which makes sense since, from what I know, he had several ranged attacks as his most powerful/useful in his games.
I don't think this would apply to Isaac, he may have some good AoE attacks but I don't think he'd be very projectile heavy. Maybe he'll have one projectile and that's it.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I play with Banjo & Kazooie a lot (he's easily in my top three most played fighters), but then I'm not a competitive player. I think outside of the lens of competitive play I imagine plenty of people are using Banjo & Kazooie.

At least in Adventure mode his side b has been doing wonders for me.

 

[Xenigma]

I love B&K's design: easy to pick up, interesting mastery curve, very faithful to the games, and lovingly crafted in so many ways. If we get Isaac implemented as well, I imagine we'll all be very happy regardless of how much competitive play he may get.

 

[jweb23]

I disagree, jweb. Assuming Isaac is in FP2, CP7 is the position that makes the most sense for him to be in. This was the character that was likely going to be revealed at the same time as Min Min, and we have very solid reason to believe that Golden Sun would have been at E3, since the trademarks got settled a bit before when E3 should have been.

Given that insiders heard that Pikmin 3 Deluxe was April, and that got delayed afterwards, I firmly believe that the news that Naz's source heard detailing GSHD for November was NOT the original release window, but actually the post delay window. It's far, far more convincing that a leak would occur with news of a delay than just... randomly off the cuff. Especially since Naz's source didn't have GS prior to it.

So I went back to Nazyrus post to see if I misread anything, and I did.

Naz’s source said in April that Golden Sun HD was coming and the tentative date was most likely November. Seeing that this info was from April, it’s safe to assume this was after any possible delays. Though I don’t live in Japan, I’m lead to assume their shutdowns happened roughly around the same time as shutdowns in the US, so late February - early March.

Golden Sun HD probably was scheduled for an earlier release date. So going back to the hypothetical timeline of “if the pandemic never happened” from my previous post...Challenger Pack 7 could make a lot of sense now.

Nintendo normally doesn’t release first party IPs too close to each other so their schedule would have probably been:

March: Animal Crossing NH
April: Pikmin 3 Deluxe
May: Xenoblade Chronicles
June: ???
July: Paper Mario (Assuming it wasn’t delayed)
August: ???

It’s tough to speculate but it seems like Golden Sun could have been somewhere between June-August which makes Challenger Pack 7 a good spot for him.

Thanks to NessAtc. for pointing out my misunderstanding of Naz’s info.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm mainly betting on Isaac as CP7 because he's basically a first-party Banjo, so it would make sense to reveal him at E3 as a big crowd pleaser. He's got an established series already, so Nintendo could get away with releasing him in Smash before a potential remake or sequel.

 

[Nazyrus]

So I went back to Nazyrus post to see if I misread anything, and I did.

Naz’s source said in April that Golden Sun HD was coming and the tentative date was most likely November. Seeing that this info was from April, it’s safe to assume this was after any possible delays. Though I don’t live in Japan, I’m lead to assume their shutdowns happened roughly around the same time as shutdowns in the US, so late February - early March.

Golden Sun HD probably was scheduled for an earlier release date. So going back to the hypothetical timeline of “if the pandemic never happened” from my previous post...Challenger Pack 7 could make a lot of sense now.

Nintendo normally doesn’t release first party IPs too close to each other so their schedule would have probably been:

March: Animal Crossing NH
April: Pikmin 3 Deluxe
May: Xenoblade Chronicles
June: ???
July: Paper Mario (Assuming it wasn’t delayed)
August: ???

It’s tough to speculate but it seems like Golden Sun could have been somewhere between June-August which makes Challenger Pack 7 a good spot for him.

Thanks to NessAtc. for pointing out my misunderstanding of Naz’s info.

If I recall correctly, Camelot is in Tokyo, which is where stuff was and has been still in its toughest with the pandemic. The state of emergency was released back in late May, but I haven't kept up with the situation over there when the second wave hit, maybe there's a state of emergency again… I haven't looked it up. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually got delayed either way.

It really depends on how far in development was the game back when my source heard November in April. Being such a late month in the year, it could easily been moved to 2021, hopefully just to early 2021. Just by looking at other games delayed, like Pikmin 3 apparently was supposedly done for the longest and yet it's releasing in October for whatever reason. Paper mario was supposedly gonna be earlier than when it ended releasing.

With Camelot being so small of a company, I think the chances of being delayed aren't low, sadly. We would be lucky if somehow they managed to work on whatever is left of the game without much trouble and therefore maybe, just maybe, it wasn't delayed further… Here's hoping it's still a 2020 title, but if not I wouldn't be really bothered or surprised. It's coming eventually either way, Camelot aren't gonna rush it since they care so much about that series and honestly they don't have the luxury to mess it up after the marketing failure that was done with Dark Dawn ( or at least I do hope they learned, lol ).

 

[NessAtc.]

If I recall correctly, Camelot is in Tokyo, which is where stuff was and has been still in its toughest with the pandemic. The state of emergency was released back in late May, but I haven't kept up with the situation over there when the second wave hit, maybe there's a state of emergency again… I haven't looked it up. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually got delayed either way.

It really depends on how far in development was the game back when my source heard November in April. Being such a late month in the year, it could easily been moved to 2021, hopefully just to early 2021. Just by looking at other games delayed, like Pikmin 3 apparently was supposedly done for the longest and yet it's releasing in October for whatever reason. Paper mario was supposedly gonna be earlier than when it ended releasing.

With Camelot being so small of a company, I think the chances of being delayed aren't low, sadly. We would be lucky if somehow they managed to work on whatever is left of the game without much trouble and therefore maybe, just maybe, it wasn't delayed further… Here's hoping it's still a 2020 title, but if not I wouldn't be really bothered or surprised. It's coming eventually either way, Camelot aren't gonna rush it since they care so much about that series and honestly they don't have the luxury to mess it up after the marketing failure that was done with Dark Dawn ( or at least I do hope they learned, lol ).

There has not been another state of emergency in Tokyo, though new cases do crop up, there has not been such a drastic spike, and the majority of the infected are within their 20s and 30s, i.e the age groups that stay out later at certain establishments

As well, assuming it was scheduled to be ready in time for a summer release, and got delayed to November, that means it would have been on track to be finished in... March/April/May. IDK about you, but this indicates that there really wasn't much left in development, and they already spent quite some time on it.

 

[Nazyrus]

There has not been another state of emergency in Tokyo, though new cases do crop up, there has not been such a drastic spike, and the majority of the infected are within their 20s and 30s, i.e the age groups that stay out later at certain establishments

As well, assuming it was scheduled to be ready in time for a summer release, and got delayed to November, that means it would have been on track to be finished in... March/April/May. IDK about you, but this indicates that there really wasn't much left in development, and they already spent quite some time on it.

Ah good to know! I guess i would just hope that Camelot is doing ok with going to work then.

Yeah I hope that's the case, unless November was the first date to be planned, then it could have been delayed to 2021. But who knows, here's hoping for the best, or even if it's 2021 i hope it gets announced with a trailer before 2020 ends, we kinda gotta know if 2021 is gonna be better than this year if for some reason nintendo doesn't have much to show for 2020 in the next directs, otherwise they are gonna lose a lot of interest from people.

 

[ZelDan]

Honestly, I'd just be happy to see the game get announced and get to see what it actually looks like. If it releases 2021 but we hear and see a bit about it this year I'll be happy.

 

[Nazyrus]

Honestly, I'd just be happy to see the game get announced and get to see what it actually looks like. If it releases 2021 but we hear and see a bit about it this year I'll be happy.

Oh trust me same, If I was able to wait 5 years for FF7R then I certainly can wait just a little for GS lol

 

[Kalaam]

As long as we have confirmation, and hopefully some regular updates on the progress of it, we'd be fine.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Well insiders were right about the Indie World so most likely they will also be right about the Direct. It could be only a week until we finally see Golden Sun again.

 

[Gioka]

So, according to King Zell and I think also NateDrake, we are getting a general direct next week (28th, I believe was the date given), they also correctly predicted the Indie World for tomorrow. If we do get this general direct at the end of the month/early next month then I think we could get an announcement for Golden Sun there (if it is a 2020 title or an early 2021) since it is likely the last direct of the year and they will probably cover fall and winter on it (similar to how we got Animal Crossing announced in the September's direct two years ago)
I am guessing it is also safe to assume we will get the next fighter announced or at least teased in that direct as well

EDIT: We didn't get ACNH announced but Isabelle revealed, thanks Bassoonist for correcting me!

 

[Bassoonist]

So, according to King Zell and I think also NateDrake, we are getting a general direct next week (28th, I believe was the date given), they also correctly predicted the Indie World for tomorrow. If we do get this general direct at the end of the month/early next month then I think we could get an announcement for Golden Sun there (if it is a 2020 title or an early 2021) since it is likely the last direct of the year and they will probably cover fall and winter on it (similar to how we got Animal Crossing announced in the September's direct last year)
I am guessing it is also safe to assume we will get the next fighter announced or at least teased in that direct as well

Animal Crossing New Horizons was revealed at E3, not the September Direct. The only first party announcement we got from the September Direct IIRC was the Xenoblade remaster. That's why so many of us have been impatient to hear something, anything, because even the last major Direct we had last September was weak.

 

[Gioka]

Animal Crossing New Horizons was revealed at E3, not the September Direct. The only first party announcement we got from the September Direct IIRC was the Xenoblade remaster. That's why so many of us have been impatient to hear something, anything, because even the last major Direct we had last September was weak.

You are right, I got it confused with Isabelle's reveal.

EDIT: Just noticed I was right about ACNH getting teased on September, but it was two years ago, not last year. ugh

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If we do get this general direct at the end of the month/early next month then I think we could get an announcement for Golden Sun there (if it is a 2020 title or an early 2021) since it is likely the last direct of the year and they will probably cover fall and winter on it (similar to how we got Animal Crossing announced in the September's direct two years ago)

I have my "waiting for a Golden Sun announcement that doesn't come" theme tune just waiting to go.

 

[Gioka]

I have my "waiting for a Golden Sun announcement that doesn't come" theme tune just waiting to go.

Tbh I shouldn't be laughing at this because it will be me too, but here I am. But what is one more disappointment when we've had those for years am I right? I can't ever be let down as hard as I was in that November direct Isaac was revealed as AT.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Animal Crossing New Horizons was revealed at E3, not the September Direct. The only first party announcement we got from the September Direct IIRC was the Xenoblade remaster. That's why so many of us have been impatient to hear something, anything, because even the last major Direct we had last September was weak.

Animal Crossing for Switch was revealed in September 2018 after Isabelle was revealed as a Smash fighter. They had that little skit with Tom Nook and revealed it was coming afterwards. E3 was where we got gameplay and the official title

 

[jweb23]

I’m so excited but also terrified. Since Dark Dawn’s release, it’s basically been a decade of disappointment for us Golden Sun fans which has caused even myself to be pessimistic. BUT with the new trademark and insider info...I feel legitimate hope! Hope for a new game in the series.

The “icing on the cake” is we are in the middle of Smash DLC and Nintendo has control of which characters get in. There is no guarantee, but this is the BEST chance Golden Sun has ever had to get into Smash.

If it once again ends in disappointment... I’ll just have to change my alarms and ringtones to this, lol

I have my "waiting for a Golden Sun announcement that doesn't come" theme tune just waiting to go.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

That was a pretty solid indie world, might pick up some of those if the opportunity present s itself. Now if rumors are to be believed the next stop is a general Nintendo Direct next week which is a potential spot for the rumored Golden Sun to be announced if things pan out. Here's hoping

 

[Xenigma]

I'm so dang happy to play Spiritfarer today. Demo I played back at PAX East 2020 was gorgeous and very fun, and no doubt the game's story is going to be heart-wrenching (in a good way!). Also cool to see Evergate out after seeing it at PAX for years. If we get a normal Direct with the same quality of games present, then it's going to be a treat!

 

[Jibunzo]

Y'all are managing to stoke the flames of hope in my heart, fire from the ashes of November 2018. What a grand and intoxicating innocence.

I'll not allow myself to let hope ascend expectation, but it's nice to believe that the chance for a new Golden Sun is more than zero.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

So if Isaac gets in, do you think it's likely that they'll add Matthew as an alt? (I know this has probably been asked before but I only really remember people asking about Matthew instead of Isaac and not as well as Isaac)

By the same reasoning I think adding Matthew instead of Isaac would be ridiculous since they're almost identical, I at the very least think not including a Matthew alt along with Isaac would be a missed opportunity. Especially if Matthew is going to be the protagonist of the series going forward.

I feel like a Matthew alt is somewhat more likely than a Felix alt, since I think Felix is a fair bit taller than Isaac.

 

[FlawedAI]

So if Isaac gets in, do you think it's likely that they'll add Matthew as an alt? (I know this has probably been asked before but I only really remember people asking about Matthew instead of Isaac and not as well as Isaac)

By the same reasoning I think adding Matthew instead of Isaac would be ridiculous since they're almost identical, I at the very least think not including a Matthew alt along with Isaac would be a missed opportunity. Especially if Matthew is going to be the protagonist of the series going forward.

I feel like a Matthew alt is somewhat more likely than a Felix alt, since I think Felix is a fair bit taller than Isaac.

There might be a Matthew-themed color, but I doubt there's a full-on alternate costume. So far, the DLC characters that have gotten alternate costumes are Joker (student), Hero (other Heroes), and Byleth (female). The thing about those is they're all different versions of the same character (with a slight bend for Hero, but it's essentially the same), while Matthew isn't Isaac, despite what some people that use Google Images seem to believe. Most likely Isaac gets a color referencing Matthew and one referencing Felix (my preferred colors would be one for the 7 other TLA party members minus Piers because he looks like Mia and then a Matthew color). I'd like to see Felix as an Echo in the next game, he could be a taller and stronger version of Isaac that's slower (and would use Megiddo as a Final Smash).

edit: spelling

 

[jweb23]

So if Isaac gets in, do you think it's likely that they'll add Matthew as an alt? (I know this has probably been asked before but I only really remember people asking about Matthew instead of Isaac and not as well as Isaac)

By the same reasoning I think adding Matthew instead of Isaac would be ridiculous since they're almost identical, I at the very least think not including a Matthew alt along with Isaac would be a missed opportunity. Especially if Matthew is going to be the protagonist of the series going forward.

I feel like a Matthew alt is somewhat more likely than a Felix alt, since I think Felix is a fair bit taller than Isaac.

I think it solely depends on what the new game is. If it’s a remake of the first two games combined as one, then I don’t see how it’s not Isaac. I also wouldn’t be surprised if we got Felix as an echo but that’s more of a pipe dream lol.

However, if for some reason the new game is GS4 (which wouldn’t make much sense to me) then I could see the character being Matthew or a completely new protagonist.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

There might be a Matthew-themed color, but I doubt there's a full-on alternate costume. So far, the DLC characters that have gotten alternate costumes are Joker (student), Hero (other Heroes), and Byleth (female). The thing about those is they're all different versions of the same character (with a slight bend for Hero, but it's essentially the same), while Matthew isn't Isaac, despite what some people that use Google Images seem to believe. Most likely Isaac gets a color referencing Matthew and one referencing Felix (my preferred colors would be one for the 7 other TLA party members minus Piers because he looks like Mia and then a Matthew color). I'd like to see Felix as an Echo in the next game, he could be a taller and stronger version of Isaac that's slower (and would use Megiddo as a Final Smash).

edit: spelling

I don't think there's really a difference between alts that are different versions of the same character and alts that are different characters.

I mean if we can have an Alph alt for Olimar I don't see what's really stopping us from getting a similar set of characters as dlc.

 

[ZelDan]

So if Isaac gets in, do you think it's likely that they'll add Matthew as an alt? (I know this has probably been asked before but I only really remember people asking about Matthew instead of Isaac and not as well as Isaac)

By the same reasoning I think adding Matthew instead of Isaac would be ridiculous since they're almost identical, I at the very least think not including a Matthew alt along with Isaac would be a missed opportunity. Especially if Matthew is going to be the protagonist of the series going forward.

I feel like a Matthew alt is somewhat more likely than a Felix alt, since I think Felix is a fair bit taller than Isaac.

I don't think it's "likely" that Isaac would get different character alts if he were to get included.

And if he was to get an alt, I feel the most likely scenario would be for Isaac to get the "Ike" treatment, ie get both his younger and older versions as alts.

 

[Nazyrus]

I don't think how tall the characters are is really gonna carry on or matter lol unless felix is drastically taller than Isaac and somehow it looked weird, but then again do we even notice that in the actual GS games? we don't lol, so I don't think they would bother making such thing canon in smash, I feel like Felix could perfectly be an Isaac alt, plus I want masked Felix to be a thing too…

 

[jweb23]

I don't think how tall the characters are is really gonna carry on or matter lol unless felix is drastically taller than Isaac and somehow it looked weird, but then again do we even notice that in the actual GS games? we don't lol, so I don't think they would bother making such thing canon in smash, I feel like Felix could perfectly be an Isaac alt, plus I want masked Felix to be a thing too…

Personally I want Felix as an echo (assuming everything goes how we hope and Isaac gets in). But as you said, we don’t truly know the heights of the characters. Even looking at them next to each other in the battle screen doesn’t help much as they all have different battle stances.

Considering how Dragon Quest was handled, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility for Felix to be an alt. Isaac’s alts can be the colors of Garet, Mia and Ivan. And Felix’s alts can be Jenna, Sheba and Piers. It kinda works out perfectly for the 8 colors.

 

[Ura]

Hey Nazyrus can you DM me real quick? Just got a quick question to ask.

On topic in this thread, I think a Felix Echo would be sick. TBH, I think Felix has a cooler design than Isaac so he'd be one of my mains. Gimme that sweet masked alt too!

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The battle models/sprites give us as close as we can get to more height differences between the characters. Felix and Isaac's heads align close enough to each other so an echo or alt so there's no issues there. Dark Dawn Isaac while he isn't as tall as I thought in battle (Matthew most likely is the same height as teen Isaac) he does look like he has a slightly bigger build than Matthew but looking at this it seems more feasible for Adult Isaac to be alt although I wouldn't bet too much on it.

 

[N3ON]

I could see a Matthew alt considering he's basically just Isaac-but-not-really, though I don't think Felix would get one since he's more different.

What I think would be likelier is just colour schemes that reference the other party members, though.

 

[Calane]

There might be a Matthew-themed color, but I doubt there's a full-on alternate costume. So far, the DLC characters that have gotten alternate costumes are Joker (student), Hero (other Heroes), and Byleth (female). The thing about those is they're all different versions of the same character (with a slight bend for Hero, but it's essentially the same), while Matthew isn't Isaac, despite what some people that use Google Images seem to believe. Most likely Isaac gets a color referencing Matthew and one referencing Felix (my preferred colors would be one for the 7 other TLA party members minus Piers because he looks like Mia and then a Matthew color). I'd like to see Felix as an Echo in the next game, he could be a taller and stronger version of Isaac that's slower (and would use Megiddo as a Final Smash).

edit: spelling

I get what you're saying, but the Heroes are not at all the same character. They're all separate characters who share a common role (being the hero of their story). They couldn't reasonably be considered the same when they have their own backstories, family, friends, and lives that don't match up with each other. They don't even all share the same powers and abilities either. Not being able to specifically reference their own games in their animations was actually my biggest complaint about making multiple heroes alts of each other. That said, I'm very happy to have them in at all, and I'm definitely not gonna complain about getting 4 different heroes when I would have been fine with just 1, lol.

Anyway, as one of the only GS fans who's favorite game in the series is Dark Dawn, I wouldn't mind if Matthew became a full alt (or maybe even the default, but I know that wouldn't go over well). Considering that they already look pretty similar, it probably wouldn't be hard to do, and I can see it happening myself.

If for some reason Matthew was the default, that'd actually be a clever way to get around the whole assist trophy thing while still allowing fans to play as Isaac anyway. Well, that is if Sakurai considers Isaac's assist trophy to be an issue in the first place, which he probably doesn't.

Before anyone misunderstands, I'd prefer we get Isaac too (it makes more sense for multiple reasons), I'm just not opposed to seeing Matthew due to my fondness for DD.

 

[Ura]

IIRC, in-game Isaac & Felix have slightly different stats. Isaac has a slightly higer speed stat while Felix has a smaller attack/defence advantage.

They could play this up in Smash Ultimate by making Felix' moves have a little bit more knockback while Isaac is slightly faster. Assuming Felix gets to be an Echo and all.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

IIRC, in-game Isaac & Felix have slightly different stats. Isaac has a slightly higer speed stat while Felix has a smaller attack/defence advantage.

They could play this up in Smash Ultimate by making Felix' moves have a little bit more knockback while Isaac is slightly faster. Assuming Felix gets to be an Echo and all.

You forgot the biggest difference.

Isaac has a 100 in the talking stat in TLA, meaning he can form words with his mouth.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You forgot the biggest difference.

Isaac has a 100 in the talking stat in TLA, meaning he can form words with his mouth.

So what's Felix's talking stat if all he says in TLA is "Why?"? Certainly higher than Isaac saying nothing in the first game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So what's Felix's talking stat if all he says in TLA is "Why?"? Certainly higher than Isaac saying nothing in the first game.

Felix has a talking stat of two in the TLA, which is a huge nerf compared to his 100 in the game prior.

He switched places with Isaac strangely enough.

 

[ZelDan]

Another key difference between Isaac and Felix is that in Dark Dawn Isaac has an existing stat of 10 while Felix has a stat of 0.

 

[Ura]

You forgot the biggest difference.

Isaac has a 100 in the talking stat in TLA, meaning he can form words with his mouth.

IDK dude. Felix had enough lines in TBS and was able to talk in the ending of TLA. I'd say that's enough to give him the advantage lol.

Makes me think how they would go about it in the remake. Would either be silent in the game or would they both have talking lines in their respective games? And for that matter, would the remake feature Felix' perspective in TBS and Isaac's perspective in TLA? Food for thought.