Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Billybae10K]

I'd consider this a win, if only because the implication with Sakurai's words implied that Spring Man WAS in the running for a potential promotion, alongside Sakurai going out of his way to discuss how some people felt SM was the series protagonist, which he wouldn't have to do if Spring Man wasn't considered viable.

Either way, happy for Min Min, happy for the base game spirit groups who've gotten a dose of life, happy for us that we're still in the running, though my heart goes out to the Tekken fanbase because their most viable character got DLC Mii Costumed.

 

[THE 6r]

Also, there are over 400 in the Geno thread. I feel pretty happy for them, they had a good day.

 

[smashkirby]

I'm sure many have said it already, but I'd like to point out that Sakurai NEVER once said that Spring Man wasn't happening because he was an AT. Sooo....

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Anyone else feel like we’re going to get a Pokémon rep in the next Pokémon Presents video on Wednesday?

A little odd that we got some Pokémon reveals and then were told to wait another week for a few more announcements. And it just so happens it comes right after we get the ARMS rep since obviously they couldn’t announce it before then.

I don’t think that’s the only thing we’re going to get. I know some people think we might get Gen 4 remakes or the next Let’s Go games, but the timing is just weird. And Pokémon is so massive it makes sense to get another rep in the DLC especially to promote SwSh DLC.

Yeah, Smash has never revealed characters in a non-Smash or non-general Direct. I doubt we'll see a character announcement in the Pokemon Direct.

That mindset is what makes the "WHERE'S SMASH" and "NO SMASH" memes. Having the announcement on a specific non-Smash Direct doesn't make sense because only fans of one (or a handful if it was a Nindies) franchise would be watching, Nintendo would want the Smash news to be presented to the most potential customers possible, or else it would be similar to an echo chamber.

As far as I'm concerned this is a win for us

The spirit fan rule is dead and Sakurai's reason for Spring-Man not making it in was " everyone is a protagonist" not "Spring-Man is an assist trophy". We're one step closer fellas! pic.twitter.com/6cD775jyKh

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) June 22, 2020

I'd say it's half a win, we could still be on the running but the community will still say otherwise, and therefore less word of us will spread (even though all of FP2 has been decided last year).

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm sure many have said it already, but I'd like to point out that Sakurai NEVER once said that Spring Man wasn't happening because he was an AT. Sooo....

I don't think it's so much about Sakurai not saying it wasn't Spring Man because he was an AT....(because him not saying anything at all about Spring Man wouldn't really have been evidence in my opinion)

but him saying that the reason it wasn't Spring Man was because the creator of Arms wanted Min Min and that all Arms characters were considered protagonists. It definitely seemed like he was assuming people would have considered Spring Man a viable choice.

I guess it's not really proof of anything but it still came across to me like Spring Man had been possible.

 

[Billybae10K]

Even if we weren't in the running, that wouldn't change how all of us would still be supporting Isaac. Because the moment you let that fan demand die, you're throwing away everything that you've worked for up to that point.

We may very well not get an Assist upgrade in this game, but that shouldn't stop us from being able to hope & speculate for our Golden Boy, because some people in the community said no.

 

[clearandsweet]

Nothing SUPER intense for our case in the reveal, but Min Min looks awesome (serously look at her pose when she fires the arms in opposite directions) and there were a few things to overreach on.

E3 canceled March 11th -> Video recorded May 2nd. Safe assumption, this was to be an E3 reveal. Would they have revealed more than one?

Indeed. This seems like a "read between the lines" bit, basically he seems to be speaking with knowledge. As Sakurai isn't working on any other game other than Smash DLC, it seems he is alluding to games he has knowledge of that have been delayed/changed. He wouldn't need this knowledge firsthand if he were only making DLC characters for released games.

Ergo, I think this line foreshadows DLC which is a promotional/tie in effort to a new release.

That's pretty f'ing definitive. He talks to the developers/creators (which we had known), they could choose anyone. If Yabuki said Springman or Twintelle, it would have been that. Spirits or anything fan-ruley like that is literally not even considered. I mean, I think we all knew it but JFC the Smash speculation sphere sometimes.

Put both those things together and add in 2 years to the day since Mario Tennis Aces release. I'm not IMPLYING Sakurai lining up his fighter announcements of Venus adept DLC with a COVID delayed, post E3-cancelation Golden Sun 4 announcement after talking with the Takahashis, but I'm having fun imagining it.

Finally,

He definitely says 少なくとも or "at least" which is very teasey and something he did not at all have to say, so that's hype in and of itself.

 

[PhantomShab]

I'm sure many have said it already, but I'd like to point out that Sakurai NEVER once said that Spring Man wasn't happening because he was an AT. Sooo....

Actions speak louder than words. The fact that he skipped over upgrading the mascot of Arms is the confirmation of what we've always kind of known all along deep down. Assist trophies are a death sentence for a character's chances until the next game. Sorry guys, but Isaac isn't happening as much as I'd really like it after playing Golden Sun myself. Sakurai is going to arbitrarily restrict himself and not upgrade assist trophies no matter how many people would pay for them.

 

[Kalaam]

Think what you want, Isaac is still possible. Sakurai also spent time showing how Spirit battles can be changed to accomodate DLCs. That would apply as well to Isaac's.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Think what you want, Isaac is still possible. Sakurai also spent time showing how Spirit battles can be changed to accomodate DLCs. That would apply as well to Isaac's.

In addition, Min Min's spirit board will include base game ARMS spirits alongside some new ones, meaning that even though there's plenty of GS stuff not spirited, you can't say that spirit boards will be a problem.

 

[FlawedAI]

Actions speak louder than words. The fact that he skipped over upgrading the mascot of Arms is the confirmation of what we've always kind of known all along deep down. Assist trophies are a death sentence for a character's chances until the next game. Sorry guys, but Isaac isn't happening as much as I'd really like it after playing Golden Sun myself. Sakurai is going to arbitrarily restrict himself and not upgrade assist trophies no matter how many people would pay for them.

But he did say that Min Min is a protagonist of ARMS and Spring Man was prominently shown off in the trailer. If Sakurai never considered Spring Man because he was an Assist Trophy, he would've said so.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Like most of you, I'm glad Sakurai said Spring Man both were in the running but, in the end, weren't selected because of another pushed character. No words on the AT status being a death sentence feels like a confirmation it is, indeed, not a death sentence.

It was definitely interesting how Sakurai made a deal of pointing out how spirit matches are likely to change with future updates.

It feels like he's basically saying spirits will get promoted.

I didn't think about it more than that but you are right. Pointing out how spirit matches will change, spcifically mentionning the "future", that leads me to think there will be other "upgrades".

In addition, Min Min's spirit board will include base game ARMS spirits alongside some new ones, meaning that even though there's plenty of GS stuff not spirited, you can't say that spirit boards will be a problem.

Source?


Btw, that's also two less competitors in the name of Heihachi and Vault Boy.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Source

From PushDustIn:

Here is Min Min's Spirit Board. pic.twitter.com/RZSYGp7G7e

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) June 22, 2020

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Regardless, I'm still going to hope for Isaac.

 

[Megadoomer]

Like most of you, I'm glad Sakurai said Spring Man both were in the running but, in the end, weren't selected because of another pushed character. No words on the AT status being a death sentence feels like a confirmation it is, indeed, not a death sentence.


I didn't think about it more than that but you are right. Pointing out how spirit matches will change, spcifically mentionning the "future", that leads me to think there will be other "upgrades".


Source?


Btw, that's also two less competitors in the name of Heihachi and Vault Boy.

Here is Min Min's Spirit Board. pic.twitter.com/RZSYGp7G7e

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) June 22, 2020

PushDustIn posted it on Twitter. There are one or two spirits that we don't know about, though. (Helix is next to Master Mummy)

 

[Bassoonist]

The idea of Spirits in of themselves meaning a character can't become playable has always been silly to me. Now there are exceptions to the rule. Like I think if a third party character and franchise is introduced through Spirits during the DLC period, that means it's very unlikely they'll see more in this game (the same goes for Mii costumes). However, the very notion that Spirits without any context (which most of them don't have any kind of context like the one mentioned above) has never made any sense to me. It's never held any water.

The reason that Assist Trophies are different is for a number of reasons: The way they've from the very beginning been presented as characters that didn't make the cut and the fact that they already have a role in battle, where they themselves show up, and thus they're out of the running. Now that "already having a role in battle" rule has seen a couple of exceptions in the last two Smash games (Namely Toon Link on the Spirits Track course being replaced when he is playable, and Chrom in a Final Smash), but to me, the rule is still pretty solid, and it feels like there are some odd exceptions here and there. The oddest one here is the Spirits Track course exception, because Toon Link was already a character in the previous game when that track was made, but perhaps that's also why an exception was made there, it was something they decided to do with Toon Link after he was a character instead of the other way around where the character had been decided to not be playable and was given a role. The Chrom in the Final Smash thing feels more like "too lazy/not enough time to change the Final Smash" category.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The reason that Assist Trophies are different is for a number of reasons: The way they've from the very beginning been presented as characters that didn't make the cut and the fact that they already have a role in battle, where they themselves show up, and thus they're out of the running. Now that "already having a role in battle" rule has seen a couple of exceptions in the last two Smash games (Namely Toon Link on the Spirits Track course being replaced when he is playable, and Chrom in a Final Smash), but to me, the rule is still pretty solid, and it feels like there are some odd exceptions here and there. The oddest one here is the Spirits Track course exception, because Toon Link was already a character in the previous game when that track was made, but perhaps that's also why an exception was made there, it was something they decided to do with Toon Link after he was a character instead of the other way around where the character had been decided to not be playable and was given a role. The Chrom in the Final Smash thing feels more like "too lazy/not enough time to change the Final Smash" category.

To be fair, even if Sakurai wanted other ARMS fighters including Spring Man to be alts, Min Min's moveset is way too Min Min-y for that: Tons of kicks, and the only ARMS you can swap between are her signature ones. However, if they started with Felix because he's not an AT, you'd get a moveset more appropriate for Isaac than Min Min's is for any other ARMS character.

 

[SPEN18]

Well

I still think Spring Man would've been the better choice, but hey if the producer of ARMS wanted Min Min to be the one to represent his game, then okay. It also sounds like Spring Man wasn't eliminated for being an AT at all, so that's good. But man it is weird that they made Spring Man the Assist and Ribbon Girl the Mii Costume only to pull the rug out from under them both when it came time for a playable fighter.

 

[PhantomShab]

But he did say that Min Min is a protagonist of ARMS and Spring Man was prominently shown off in the trailer. If Sakurai never considered Spring Man because he was an Assist Trophy, he would've said so.

We all know if Spring Man wasn't an assist trophy then he would have been the character picked.

I mean this official art should say it all when it comes to assist trophies.

Assist trophy upgrades are out of the question. It's frustrating that Sakurai just won't directly come out and say it though, but at this point he really doesn't need to.

 

[Billybae10K]

We all know if Spring Man wasn't an assist trophy then he would have been the character picked.

I mean this official art should say it all when it comes to assist trophies.

Assist trophy upgrades are out of the question. It's frustrating that Sakurai just won't directly come out and say it though, but at this point he really doesn't need to.

You're really going to start saying assist upgrades aren't happening in a character support thread for a character based on an assist trophy? Like, we're still going to support Isaac, Felix, Matthew and the Golden Sun franchise regardless, so why state that? It's only going to bring negative vibes.

 

[Organization XIII]

We all know if Spring Man wasn't an assist trophy then he would have been the character picked.

I mean this official art should say it all when it comes to assist trophies.

Assist trophy upgrades are out of the question. It's frustrating that Sakurai just won't directly come out and say it though, but at this point he really doesn't need to.

I mean he clearly talked Springman otherwise the Creator wouldn't have said to him Springman wasn't the protagonist. The fact they talked Springman at all shows the AT wasn't a problem for consideration. That's literally all we needed we are Golden now.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

We all know if Spring Man wasn't an assist trophy then he would have been the character picked.

Except we already know he wouldn't because the creator of Arms literally said they wanted Min Min. (It was right there in the presentation)

I don't think he would have mentioned what the creator had wanted if it hadn't been a deciding factor.

 

[Guynamednelson]

If Sakurai goes into a bit more detail about Min Min in the next Famitsu column I wonder if it's there that he'll actually directly say the AT was a problem for Spring Man or not.

 

[PhantomShab]

The whole "everyone is the protagonist" thing really does come off as damage control tbh. Its clear even from a casual glance at Arms that Spring Man was made to be the face of the franchise, and Ribbon Girl to a lesser extent. Spring Man is front and center on the box and he was the assist trophy they chose for Arms in the first place, and that was during a time when Sakurai saw Arms as "too new" to give a proper fighter. Why wasn't that mummy guy or weird green guy the assist trophy if they're just as important as Spring Man? It's pretty clear that not all characters are as important as each other despite "them all being the protagonist".

I'm not saying you can't still want Isaac. I would like to see Isaac make it too. I'm just being realistic here and don't want people to set themselves up for major disappointment.

 

[Billybae10K]

The whole "everyone is the protagonist" thing really does come off as damage control tbh. Its clear even from a casual glance at Arms that Spring Man was made to be the face of the franchise, and Ribbon Girl to a lesser extent. Spring Man is front and center on the box and he was the assist trophy they chose for Arms in the first place, and that was during a time when Sakurai saw Arms as "too new" to give a proper fighter. Why wasn't that mummy guy or weird green guy the assist trophy if they're just as important as Spring Man? It's pretty clear that not all characters are as important as each other despite "them all being the protagonist".

I'm not saying you can't still want Isaac. I would like to see Isaac make it too. I'm just being realistic here and don't want people to set themselves up for major disappointment.

With all due respect, it's our decision as individuals on how far we want to set our expectations regarding each reveal. Coming to the support thread for Isaac after, what I'd view to be a pretty good day for us, and seeing people denouncing his entire possibility just isn't it, Chief.

 

[Nazyrus]

As far as I'm concerned this is a win for us

The spirit fan rule is dead and Sakurai's reason for Spring-Man not making it in was " everyone is a protagonist" not "Spring-Man is an assist trophy". We're one step closer fellas! pic.twitter.com/6cD775jyKh

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) June 22, 2020

Yep, it is. An upgrade is an upgrade. The fan rule was "no upgrades at all" no matter how naysayers twisted it to one side or another (Spirits or ATs). All they wanted was to make people sad and not allow them to speculate freely. This proves that if Nintendo has a reason and wants to, they can upgrade whatever. Of course, I believe this will only apply to characters deconfirmed in Base game of Smash Ultimate. Anything that happened during pass 1 with spirit events and mii costumes, most likely won't be upgraded, for obvious reasons (like the pass being already decided mid way, for example, Resident evil is deconfirmed for sure based on this, since it got a spirit event near the end of 2019). So yeah, an upgrade is an upgrade, I know people are tired of me saying it, but that's how it is. Base game content has hopes once again of making it in if there's a reason for nintendo (like promoting a game or just making fans happy), after all, this pass was described, when announced, as "oportunities to please fans"

I'd consider this a win, if only because the implication with Sakurai's words implied that Spring Man WAS in the running for a potential promotion, alongside Sakurai going out of his way to discuss how some people felt SM was the series protagonist, which he wouldn't have to do if Spring Man wasn't considered viable.

Either way, happy for Min Min, happy for the base game spirit groups who've gotten a dose of life, happy for us that we're still in the running, though my heart goes out to the Tekken fanbase because their most viable character got DLC Mii Costumed.

Yeah Heihachi situation was unfortunate, but that's at least one obstacle less for Lloyd now Motoi sakuraba bros arise!

 

[Silo777]

The whole "everyone is the protagonist" thing really does come off as damage control tbh. Its clear even from a casual glance at Arms that Spring Man was made to be the face of the franchise, and Ribbon Girl to a lesser extent. Spring Man is front and center on the box and he was the assist trophy they chose for Arms in the first place, and that was during a time when Sakurai saw Arms as "too new" to give a proper fighter. Why wasn't that mummy guy or weird green guy the assist trophy if they're just as important as Spring Man? It's pretty clear that not all characters are as important as each other despite "them all being the protagonist".

I'm not saying you can't still want Isaac. I would like to see Isaac make it too. I'm just being realistic here and don't want people to set themselves up for major disappointment.

Normally I think I might even agree with you, but the fact that this ARMS character is only getting in because the creator specifically asked kinda undermines that. Since that’s the case, whoever the creator wants, which is Min Min, absolutely gets priority even if they aren’t “the face.” If Spring Man being an AT was the issue, they would’ve gone for Ribbon Girl. But they didn’t.

 

[Nazyrus]

Normally I think I might even agree with you, but the fact that this ARMS character is only getting in because the creator specifically asked kinda undermines that. Since that’s the case, whoever the creator wants, which is Min Min, absolutely gets priority even if they aren’t “the face.” If Spring Man being an AT was the issue, they would’ve gone for Ribbon Girl. But they didn’t.

Pretty much. In fact, if the rest of the characters weren't that popular, specially min min, i think the decision of springman and ribbon girl would have been a no brainer. Either way, It was purely by producer decision, nothing else.

 

[SPEN18]

If Spring Man being an AT was the issue, they would’ve gone for Ribbon Girl. But they didn’t.

This, basically. I actually didn't even think about this at first, but yeah if the AT was the only issue, then Ribbon Girl was right there waiting for them as the other box cover character.

--

And I mean, I agree that it was kinda a weak argument to say "they're all equally important 'protagonists' so it really doesn't matter which one we choose," as clearly some of the characters get more promotion/exposure/popularity than others, but it's not like they picked someone completely out of left field. Min Min was one of the most popular choices and was also highly speculated leading up to the reveal. I also don't really like the idea of just picking "the creator's favorite character" in all cases, but Min Min does happen to be quite popular and representative of the franchise so in this case it works out okay.

 

[SharkLord]

Y'know, I was thinking that since Isaac's power stems from the earth, all his sword strikes would be downward; So stuff like his up tilt would emphasize the arc, his back air would be a diagonal point like Robin's, etc. His up air would be something intentionally awkward, like bringing the sword down and then heaving it up, like a reverse of Ike's or just clunking people with the hilt. He's still pretty young (Assuming we're not talking about Dark Dawn Isaac), so naturally he'd be pretty awkward outside of his element.

 

[Nawgust]

Hey all- long time lurker, even longer-time supporter of Isaac in Smash. (Pre-Brawl days, voted for Isaac in the ballot, etc.) It's to the point that even my fiancé (also a Smash fan) gets me a Golden Sun themed birthday gift each year. (On that note- I have no idea how to tag you, True Blue, but I would greatly appreciate it if I could be added to the Supporter's list.)

I was *finally* compelled to join the conversation today because of the Min Min presentation. Although it's easy to be pessimistic because Spring Man was passed over, Sakurai did touch on the reason being the developer's request. He felt the need to explain the absence of Spring Man because Sakurai, like the rest of us, viewed him as the face of the franchise. If anything, this reinforces the fan "rule" that the chosen representatives will be the main protagonist of their series/ game. If the developers wanted Spring Man, he would have gotten in and who knows what would have happened with the AT.

Isaac, as a result, now has competition between Felix, Matthew, or any potential new protagonist for the theoretical new game. It would come down to who the Takahashi brothers (or Camelot I guess) preferred to represent their series. If they say "Yeah, Isaac is IT", Sakurai would make it happen. If they preferred Matthew, we would have to live with that. However- I feel like after all is said and done, the majority of us would just be happy to see Golden Sun get some love in Smash.

I get the reason why people feel less confident about AT "promotions" after today, but ultimately it comes down to semantics. Sakurai didn't rule Spring Man out because of the AT, he chose someone over Spring Man because it was what the game developer's will and he had no reason to disagree. That's from the word of the guy who literally has the final say on every character that makes it into Smash. You can view it as an excuse but what reason would Sakurai have to lie? He knows we cling onto his words- he said as much in his most recent Famitsu column. If he wanted to use the opportunity to say "AT promotions can't happen", this would've been the time. He is choosing to leave the door open to speculation. We're talking about a game where Rathalos is a boss and AT, Min Min is a fighter and base-game spirit, Chrom is a Mii costume, fighter, and part of another character's final smash. Roles are never definitive if Sakurai envisions something more.

I genuinely believe that roles were decided for the base game and first DLC pass back in 2017, while the decision for a second DLC pass came to fruition in 2019. Therefore- the roles that were decided literal years ago may have been subject to review. We already saw the first character in this pass broke what many assumed to be a "rule". Given that Isaac's support was at an all-time high between King K. Rool's reveal in August 2018 and his AT confirmation in November 2018, he very well may have been on the dev team's mind when they were deciding on the second season of DLC. I'm not saying he is definitely happening or even has a good chance, but I do believe we shouldn't write him off yet.

I'll work on making my posts more concise in the future. This one was a long time coming.

 

[Gioka]

Since that’s the case, whoever the creator wants, which is Min Min, absolutely gets priority even if they aren’t “the face.” If Spring Man being an AT was the issue, they would’ve gone for Ribbon Girl. But they didn’t.

This. Also Min Min won the final popularity poll ARMS had, so I don't think it is that surprising that they decided to go with her instead.

 

[Nazyrus]

This. Also Min Min won the final popularity poll ARMS had, so I don't think it is that surprising that they decided to go with her instead.

Yeah, like no wonder Imran or Nate ( I forgot ) said himself that we we knew the gender, it would be way too easy to guess. She is the first name anyone would guess if we knew it was a female.

 

[TheCJBrine]

This. Also Min Min won the final popularity poll ARMS had, so I don't think it is that surprising that they decided to go with her instead.

It was a tourney, not a popularity pole. And there was one more Party Crash between Spring Man and Ribbon Girl in April, Spring Man winning.

 

[Gioka]

It was a tourney, not a popularity pole. And there was one more Party Crash between Spring Man and Ribbon Girl in April, Spring Man winning.

This! Was not really sure what it was. But it helped boost her popularity, imo

 

[Sentinel07]

In a way, I think this opens up possibilities for a Golden Sun rep, because this makes it sound like Felix and Matthew have opportunities as well. Matthew being the latest protagonist gives him a shot.

 

[SonicLink125]

Hey all- long time lurker, even longer-time supporter of Isaac in Smash. (Pre-Brawl days, voted for Isaac in the ballot, etc.) It's to the point that even my fiancé (also a Smash fan) gets me a Golden Sun themed birthday gift each year. (On that note- I have no idea how to tag you, True Blue, but I would greatly appreciate it if I could be added to the Supporter's list.)

I was *finally* compelled to join the conversation today because of the Min Min presentation. Although it's easy to be pessimistic because Spring Man was passed over, Sakurai did touch on the reason being the developer's request. He felt the need to explain the absence of Spring Man because Sakurai, like the rest of us, viewed him as the face of the franchise. If anything, this reinforces the fan "rule" that the chosen representatives will be the main protagonist of their series/ game. If the developers wanted Spring Man, he would have gotten in and who knows what would have happened with the AT.

Isaac, as a result, now has competition between Felix, Matthew, or any potential new protagonist for the theoretical new game. It would come down to who the Takahashi brothers (or Camelot I guess) preferred to represent their series. If they say "Yeah, Isaac is IT", Sakurai would make it happen. If they preferred Matthew, we would have to live with that. However- I feel like after all is said and done, the majority of us would just be happy to see Golden Sun get some love in Smash.

I get the reason why people feel less confident about AT "promotions" after today, but ultimately it comes down to semantics. Sakurai didn't rule Spring Man out because of the AT, he chose someone over Spring Man because it was what the game developer's will and he had no reason to disagree. That's from the word of the guy who literally has the final say on every character that makes it into Smash. You can view it as an excuse but what reason would Sakurai have to lie? He knows we cling onto his words- he said as much in his most recent Famitsu column. If he wanted to use the opportunity to say "AT promotions can't happen", this would've been the time. He is choosing to leave the door open to speculation. We're talking about a game where Rathalos is a boss and AT, Min Min is a fighter and base-game spirit, Chrom is a Mii costume, fighter, and part of another character's final smash. Roles are never definitive if Sakurai envisions something more.

I genuinely believe that roles were decided for the base game and first DLC pass back in 2017, while the decision for a second DLC pass came to fruition in 2019. Therefore- the roles that were decided literal years ago may have been subject to review. We already saw the first character in this pass broke what many assumed to be a "rule". Given that Isaac's support was at an all-time high between King K. Rool's reveal in August 2018 and his AT confirmation in November 2018, he very well may have been on the dev team's mind when they were deciding on the second season of DLC. I'm not saying he is definitely happening or even has a good chance, but I do believe we shouldn't write him off yet.

I'll work on making my posts more concise in the future. This one was a long time coming.

Welcome fellow Adept to the House of the Golden Sun! Glad you can join us! :D

I agree with everything you said. With all things considered, Isaac has a chance getting in like every other character does. The only question is, will Nintendo/Sakurai do it? With Golden Sun possibly coming back, I can easily see Nintendo taking advantage of adding Isaac to help promote the new Golden Sun game. I mean, it would be foolish if they didn’t after seeing the demand for Isaac, the dissatisfaction of AT Isaac, the GS letters in January 2019, and more. I hope they take that opportunity! Things are looking good for us!

Always remember that we have nothing to loose and everything to gain in our campaign for Isaac’s inclusion! Keep going, Adepts!

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Although Felix and Matthew are technically 'eligible' by upgraded spirits standards. I'm still positive they would not dream of putting either in before Isaac.

Isaac is the first protaganist of the best selling game in the series. The story starts with him and he's in every game since. More importantly, he's the one we've all be hoping for since pre-Brawl, maybe even Melee. The Smash team know who the fans want. I wrote in my letter to NoA that I would want it to be Isaac.

Felix and Matthew can still make an appearance, although it's a slim chance until the next game. I can see Felix being a slightly heavier echo, if that's even possible, and Matthew as an alt skin. I've said it before but the only thing that puts my off a Felix alt skin is the height difference. If I'm wrong, I'd love Felix too, but if Nintendo comes out and says, "Lets put Golden Sun in Smash", then they're not going to dance around who's an assist and who's a spirit. It's going to be Isaac.

 

[Megadoomer]

Do you think that Dark Dawn's version of Isaac would work as a loophole? He's visually distinct from the assist trophy, which seems like it would help.

 

[FlawedAI]

Do you think that Dark Dawn's version of Isaac would work as a loophole? He's visually distinct from the assist trophy, which seems like it would help.

If that's the justification they need, so be it. It wouldn't be my first choice given how iconic his younger design is, but it's distinctly Isaac and it's something.