Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Mizuiro24]

I think the hope for Isaac was to announce a sort of 'assist trophy promotion pack', but this is not the way, apparently. Sakurai said anyway that he was unable to listen the requests received on Twitter, and clearly the request for Waluigi and Isaac was strong; I took this sentence as a 'I can't, they are assist trophy'.
Anyway, boring Direct, I'm still waiting and hoping for a real nintendo direct.

 

[NessAtc.]

I think the hope for Isaac was to announce a sort of 'assist trophy promotion pack', but this is not the way, apparently. Sakurai said anyway that he was unable to listen the requests received on Twitter, and clearly the request for Waluigi and Isaac was strong; I took this sentence as a 'I can't, they are assist trophy'.
Anyway, boring Direct, I'm still waiting and hoping for a real nintendo direct.

I don't see why you'd take it like that, considering he didn't even say anything remotely like that.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I think something that gives Isaac an edge over Waluigi is that it looks like they are using the same pass format again so coming with songs, music, more spirits and a stage. Isaac has much more to offer in that department in comparison. I'm not counting Waluigi out but it's interesting to think about.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think the hope for Isaac was to announce a sort of 'assist trophy promotion pack', but this is not the way, apparently. Sakurai said anyway that he was unable to listen the requests received on Twitter, and clearly the request for Waluigi and Isaac was strong; I took this sentence as a 'I can't, they are assist trophy'.
Anyway, boring Direct, I'm still waiting and hoping for a real nintendo direct.

I think it was always unreasonable to expect an "assist trophy promotion" pack anyway. So that doesn't bother me too much.

Honestly in terms of assist trophy promotions, I think Waluigi and Isaac are the only two that have a chance now. (assuming this second fighter pass is the last DLC for Ultimate)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The only thing we can do now is hope for Isaac. Also, are there any new supporters to add?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think something that gives Isaac an edge over Waluigi is that it looks like they are using the same pass format again so coming with songs, music, more spirits and a stage. Isaac has much more to offer in that department in comparison. I'm not counting Waluigi out but it's interesting to think about.

It does give Isaac an edge over Waluigi if each character has to come with a stage and music.

However it hasn't been confirmed yet that each fighter from this pass will come with a stage. Not to mention it's perfectly plausible for Waluigi to come with a random Mario stage that isn't really related to him. Considering it's Nintendos biggest franchise them adding a DLC Mario stage isn't that strange.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

It does give Isaac an edge over Waluigi if each character has to come with a stage and music.

However it hasn't been confirmed yet that each fighter from this pass will come with a stage. Not to mention it's perfectly plausible for Waluigi to come with a random Mario stage that isn't really related to him. Considering it's Nintendos biggest franchise them adding a DLC Mario stage isn't that strange.

Yeah knowing more about that detail needs us to wait for the first fighter of the new pass to come so we can see how it's structured completely. But still spirits and music at least. Is Waluigi just going to get different renders of himself unless they make an exception with him

 

[Mizuiro24]

I don't see why you'd take it like that, considering he didn't even say anything remotely like that.

Will see... Maybe I'm just discouraged and I don't expect anything from Sakurai anymore. I try to stay rational ...
We can make more conscious guesswork when we know Camelot's next move anyway, that's why I am waiting more for a real Nintendo direct

 

[Kalaam]

Tbh, if they address the "too many swordsman" joke/argument in a FE character trailer, they can absolutely address the AT seal argument with a pun in Isaac's trailer.

 

[Nazyrus]

Honestly the best part of this is that we know 1st parties are definitely a thing for DLCs, this is great news. With the GS trademark coming for whatever new game or remake or remaster or whatever it will be, I wouldn't be surprised to see Isaac helping to get new audiences into GS franchise too. Isaac would ultimately kill "muh spirits" rule, "muh ATs" rule, "muh miis" rule, from base roster content that is. NoA told me many times that Nintendo is AWARE of the Isaac demand and the backlash that happened, so we are definitely not unheard and the fact NoJ filed a new trademark that just got approved late 2019 is already a sign of them not letting it die for whatever they are preparing us for with the franchise. I remain optimistic, fan rules just keep getting debunked as usual, as it will continue happening.

 

[Pinguino21v]

I finally was able to watch the video. I'm OK with Byleth, but I'm also terribly excited to see that first party characters are still in the list.

Don't forget what Sakurai said previously. With these characters, he brings "new worlds". And this time, he explicitly said he want characters "that brings something new to the table". Isaac matchs both these conditions.

Let's be objective. If we are having a few first party, who are the best candidates?

First party are either characters who are in existing worlds - so out - (Waluigi, BWD, Ashley...), who are new entries - so still possible - (they are few: Pokémon, XCX/XC2) or who are from non represented worlds (Golden Sun, Rythm Heaven, Advance Wars...).

I'm feeling good about all of that, honestly.

 

[Xenigma]

Considering it's a Pass again (which I predicted it would not be) I think the next 6 will have the full treatment, and with that being the hypotetical case I don't think a Gen 8 Pokémon is likely, because we already got Spirits from the new game (although they could always add more).

As for who's next, I'm feeling it's another first party. I don't think Isaac is getting in regardless, but I can dream.

I actually think this is a great point. By the point those spirits were implemented, the Smash team was surely already talking about, if not locking in, the Vol. 2 characters. If that was the case, why add spirits of the new starters and legendaries instead of saving them for the inevitable spirit board? I guess you could argue there are other options between the expansion pass legendaries and any other new Pokemon/Galarian forms, but I think it's more likely they just decided not to pursue another playable Pokemon with Incineroar having already been added in the base game.

Back to Isaac: I do feel like Camelot's next game could be the deciding point, for better or worse. I like to believe we've done enough to independently justify Isaac, but is that enough to convince Sakurai to turn around and add him after the concessions already given to Golden Sun the base game? That's hard to say. However, if we had a Golden Sun remake or even sequel on the way? That could make some sort of playable GS character almost inevitable. We're just left waiting to see what exactly Camelot is doing. Is Golden Sun on the way? Mario Golf? Something else entirely? Hopefully we'll find out with the next Direct!

 

[Guynamednelson]

I took this sentence as a 'I can't, they are assist trophy'.

I take it as "we can only make so many fighters".

 

[N3ON]

I mean Banjo is a Pokémon

Tisk Tisk Neon. If only you put Isaac on the list!

be careful 4chan might think this was a leak :=0

Alright, I'll use all my powers for my FP2 prediction:

Isaac
Isaac
Isaac
Isaac
Isaac
Fire Emblem

Now I just need 1/6, at most 2/6 and we good.

 

[Billybae10K]

I think the hope for Isaac was to announce a sort of 'assist trophy promotion pack', but this is not the way, apparently. Sakurai said anyway that he was unable to listen the requests received on Twitter, and clearly the request for Waluigi and Isaac was strong; I took this sentence as a 'I can't, they are assist trophy'.
Anyway, boring Direct, I'm still waiting and hoping for a real nintendo direct.

Sakurai didn't say he was unable to listen to requests over twitter - He was merely stating that, at this point, the characters are finalized so any requests sent beyond this point won't be a factor in the next six DLC fighters - I'm not trying to come for your views, but I'm not about spreading misinformation.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Sakurai didn't say he was unable to listen to requests over twitter - He was merely stating that, at this point, the characters are finalized so any requests sent beyond this point won't be a factor in the next six DLC fighters - I'm not trying to come for your views, but I'm not about spreading misinformation.

He said that about the season 1 DLC characters though.

 

[Xenigma]

He said that about the season 1 DLC characters though.

And we have no reason to believe that wasn't true then either. As memory serves the speculation community was already joking about the Three Houses protagonist being a DLC character, and none of the other characters rely on information unknown to the public as of November 2018. If Sakurai's saying the slate of six is already locked in, even with the overly generous deadline of December 2021, I believe they are in fact locked in.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

He said that about the season 1 DLC characters though.

and I'm sure that was true for season 1 DLC characters at the time.

I think the point is that if you're suggesting characters for this second fighter pass, you're wasting your breath.

 

[Kalaam]

The characters are definitely locked and are being worked on right now. Unless something crazy comes in that would make a character impossible to add (like a crazy big drama over their game or the character which would ternish nintendo's image) they won't change a character. At most would they add a costume to a character based on fan demand of another character from that franchise (like a felix costume for isaac, potentially).
We did everything we could this past year and half, and they most likely noticed it. I don't know how other communities fared honestly. I didn't see events are ambitious as golden sunday. But I may just have missed them, if so, it puts GSunday into perspective because it could easily have been missed by people too.
On the other hand Golden Sun had a massive resurgence in gaming discussion this past year (completionnist, Corey Barlog, a few french tubers, Gnoggin a few years ago...) and the trademark is here and got trending, which Nintendo would most likely notice.
All and all, that second pass bodes well for Isaac. Timingwise, it was decided around the time when Golden Sun got a huge resurgence in popularity (even if we don't know the exact time it was finalized, probably around november since the direct seems to have been recorded around then from what I heard) it's not bad at all and possibly made it to the consideration table. If it was decided a bit later, maybe Corey's tweet would have had some influence too ! xD

Anyway, I'm quite confident about Golden Sun's chances in that second pass. We've got 6 shots, and I just hope we won't have to wait until december 2021, when the game is already 3 years old, for isaac to get in. It'd be terrible to promote a new game/franchise, since it would be when the interrest starts to die off.

 

[Organization XIII]

We know pass 2 was decided before it was announced and that was sometime before Hero's presentation. Remember even though it was mentioned at the time of Banjo's presentation, during Banjo's presentation Sakurai mentioned the two presentations were recorded days apart. So From that time backward who was one of the biggest characters? Well, our boy Isaac. Honestly, timeline-wise Isaac is sitting pretty. We just gotta keep up hope. Make Camelot aware that for the love of god we need them to make a new GS. Keep being vocal. Stop operating under "At kills" like it means a damn thing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

We know pass 2 was decided before it was announced and that was sometime before Hero's presentation. Remember even though it was mentioned at the time of Banjo's presentation, during Banjo's presentation Sakurai mentioned the two presentations were recorded days apart. So From that time backward who was one of the biggest characters? Well, our boy Isaac. Honestly, timeline-wise Isaac is sitting pretty. We just gotta keep up hope. Make Camelot aware that for the love of god we need them to make a new GS. Keep being vocal. Stop operating under "At kills" like it means a damn thing.

Wasn't Vol 2 announced on Terry's presentation? If so, then that makes it potentially a far later development.

 

[Organization XIII]

Wasn't Vol 2 announced on Terry's presentation? If so, then that makes it potentially a far later development.

No Terry was revealed in the same direct as the continuation of DLC. Immediately after that direct was Banjo's presentation.

From the 9/4/19 direct
https://youtu.be/8TVE44feo_I?t=656

 

[N3ON]

We know pass 2 was decided before it was announced and that was sometime before Hero's presentation. Remember even though it was mentioned at the time of Banjo's presentation, during Banjo's presentation Sakurai mentioned the two presentations were recorded days apart. So From that time backward who was one of the biggest characters? Well, our boy Isaac. Honestly, timeline-wise Isaac is sitting pretty. We just gotta keep up hope. Make Camelot aware that for the love of god we need them to make a new GS. Keep being vocal. Stop operating under "At kills" like it means a damn thing.

One of the biggest characters, as in, he had been one of them. Not that he currently was one. Unless Pass 2 was chosen back in last August-November, which I think is a bit early. But if they were using retroactive popularity, then characters like Waluigi would also be pretty viable, maybe more so.

 

[Organization XIII]

One of the biggest characters, as in, he had been one of them. Not that he currently was one. Unless Pass 2 was chosen back in last August-November, which I think is a bit early. But if they were using retroactive popularity, then characters like Waluigi would also be pretty viable, maybe more so.

I'm not throwing that possibility under the bus with my statements we just have a good claim to the fan spot for this pass. Right now is a time to be hopeful. Yes, there's some competition for that role but 2 others fighting for that spot is way better than hoping for 1 of the other 5 spots with the infinite amount of others fighting for a random inclusion as well.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not throwing that possibility under the bus with my statements we just have a good claim to the fan spot for this pass. Right now is a time to be hopeful. Yes, there's some competition for that role but 2 others fighting for that spot is way better than hoping for 1 of the other 5 spots with the infinite amount of others fighting for a random inclusion as well.

Six characters is a lot; more than I was expecting. We'll see what happens.

Now, if any, is the time promotions might occur.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Six characters is a lot; more than I was expecting. We'll see what happens.

Now, if any, is the time promotions might occur.

To be honest, when I saw that extra slot being added to the second fighter pass my mind instantly went to Waluigi.

So there is a part of me thinking that Waluigi is going to get in at the end (or the beginning) as the "fan bonus" character. So it gives me some doubts that Isaac will get in...

I can't believe we have another two years of this. (and I mean that both in a good and bad way)

 

[Pwnapplez]

What if the grinch leak will be completed with DLC wave 2

 

[Nazyrus]

What if the grinch leak will be completed with DLC wave 2

All I know is that I have 6 times to be worried about getting Steve, lol… 2 years of fear

But anyway yeah I wouldn't be surprised. I still want Mach Rider, i would love to see how they make that work + an amiibo like that.

 

[Dorayaki]

Not hating him but is it a loss to be a base game fighter of Smash 6? The topic title seems to be too specific and wouldn't be a long-term support. And we haven't deconfirmed the npc deconfirmation.

 

[Mizuiro24]

Sakurai didn't say he was unable to listen to requests over twitter - He was merely stating that, at this point, the characters are finalized so any requests sent beyond this point won't be a factor in the next six DLC fighters - I'm not trying to come for your views, but I'm not about spreading misinformation.

Uhmmmm maybe it was a bad Italian translation, they wrote about the impossibility of satisfying the requests Sakurai got on Twitter. Sorry for misinformation.

 

[N3ON]

Not hating him but is it a loss to be a base game fighter of Smash 6? The topic title seems to be too specific and wouldn't be a long-term support. And we haven't deconfirmed the npc deconfirmation.

Well Smash 6 will get a new section created on the site, just like Ultimate did, and Smash 4 before it. All these threads will be locked by then, and new support threads will be made in that section. So yeah, this one is focused on DLC, given that's all Ultimate really has left.

But this is the general place to support Isaac (and GS in general) for the time being, and probably for a while to come. You can talk about Smash 6 if you want, but it's just a bit nebulous at this point.

 

[Xenigma]

Well Smash 6 will get a new section created on the site, just like Ultimate did, and Smash 4 before it. All these threads will be locked by then, and new support threads will be made in that section. So yeah, this one is focused on DLC, given that's all Ultimate really has left.

But this is the general place to support Isaac (and GS in general) for the time being, and probably for a while to come. You can talk about Smash 6 if you want, but it's just a bit nebulous at this point.

To add to this, we're also dealing with the more immediate realities of asking for playable Isaac in Smash Ultimate, as well as what it takes to get a new Golden Sun game in general. Both have substantial hurdles, but they're relatively concrete hurdles that we know of and can work around. By contrast we have no idea when a Smash 6 will be announced, nor what scope that game will have compared to Ultimate, nor what other games Nintendo will have released by that time. I think the current focus of this thread and the Isaac/Golden Sun fandom is pretty sensible: keep fans active by advocating for the more immediate goals of Smash Ultimate and a Switch game. Even if we don't reach those goals, we at least prove to Nintendo that we're still here and eager to get something new whenever they're ready.

 

[Billybae10K]

Well, from my point of view, it makes no sense to veer into the negatives regarding Isaac's chances, when this is his support thread - We need to keep the positivity up, even if the fighters have already been decided - There's nothing more we can do, so why worry about it and instead, let's put our efforts into continuing the Golden Sun support in a general sense. I suspect once we see who Fighter 6 is, we'll have an idea of what direction this DLC is taking, and I, perhaps foolishly, am confident that we'll see an AT upgrade in this pass.

Whether that be Isaac, Waluigi, Shovel Knight or someone else, I honestly couldn't predict, but I've got faith.

 

[N3ON]

To be honest, when I saw that extra slot being added to the second fighter pass my mind instantly went to Waluigi.

So there is a part of me thinking that Waluigi is going to get in at the end (or the beginning) as the "fan bonus" character. So it gives me some doubts that Isaac will get in...

That's an interesting theory. I wish, when all was said and done, they clued us in to the process a bit more. It'd be cool to know if they originally only planned for another five, same as the first, but expanded it to six. And which was the character to precipitate that change.

But personally, I'd imagine if Waluigi was destined to be in this pass, he probably would've been in the cards since the beginning, since the blowback to his reveal happened so long ago at this point. Presumably far before Pass 2 was a thing.

I can't believe we have another two years of this. (and I mean that both in a good and bad way)

Yeah, I dunno if I can handle this fanbase (not specifically the Isaac fanbase, the entire fanbase) at a pace of ~3 reveals a year. People will legitimately start losing it.

 

[Bassoonist]

To be honest, when I saw that extra slot being added to the second fighter pass my mind instantly went to Waluigi.

So there is a part of me thinking that Waluigi is going to get in at the end (or the beginning) as the "fan bonus" character. So it gives me some doubts that Isaac will get in...

I can't believe we have another two years of this. (and I mean that both in a good and bad way)

Yeah, I think if there is an AT promotion there will only be one. I'm still very doubtful there will even be one. Not saying it is impossible, but I still think it shouldn't be assumed to be possible until it happens. And I'm fairly certain that if there even is one, there will only be one.

As I noted before, the Fighter's Pass wasn't a string of fan highly requested characters. I can't see why Fighter's Pass 2 would be different, and I can't see why an AT promotion would happen more than once. I know we all envision the Fighter's Pass 2 just being back to back fan requested characters, but we have to come down to earth.

 

[NessAtc.]

I think the sixth slot just being slid in was because people were expecting it to be a 5 character pass, so it was a neat way of showing that it would be six instead. I don't think there's anything else to read into there.

 

[Cadillac]

6 more characters. Add these and there are 88, counting the echoes.
Do you think there will be 2 more after this to match the 90?

 

[MeatOfJustice]

6 more characters. Add these and there are 88, counting the echoes.
Do you think there will be 2 more after this to match the 90?

I don't think so, they never had a multiple of 10 as a roster total so I doubt they would go out of their way to make it 90. And if it happens, it may be through Echo Fighters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly the best part of this is that we know 1st parties are definitely a thing for DLCs, this is great news. With the GS trademark coming for whatever new game or remake or remaster or whatever it will be, I wouldn't be surprised to see Isaac helping to get new audiences into GS franchise too. Isaac would ultimately kill "muh spirits" rule, "muh ATs" rule, "muh miis" rule, from base roster content that is. NoA told me many times that Nintendo is AWARE of the Isaac demand and the backlash that happened, so we are definitely not unheard and the fact NoJ filed a new trademark that just got approved late 2019 is already a sign of them not letting it die for whatever they are preparing us for with the franchise. I remain optimistic, fan rules just keep getting debunked as usual, as it will continue happening.

The only character that got in due to advertisement reasons was a Fire Emblem character. I wouldn't count on that argument helping Isaac.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Fighter Pass 2 will also feature stages and music.

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) January 16, 2020

This definitely helps Isaac's case more than Waluigi. Waluigi doesn't have much to offer in terms of songs compared to Isaac and if we also are getting DLC spirits Golden Sun has more to offer than a singular character from a series that already has a ton of spirits. Personally I think Waluigi is being saved as the big hook of Smash 6