Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

DMurr

The Radiant Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
2,452
Location
ATL
NNID
dmurray9
The biggest thing going for Isaac is his performance on the ballot. It's obvious he did well based on Ultimate's content and exit polls.

Him getting in definitely could happen, but depends on which direction they go with the choices. It's entirely possible (and probably likely) they stick with mostly third party, given the wider appeal (and probably larger sales), but if they do add some first party characters, they might stick with more recent titles. Personally I find it a little suspicious that FE Three Houses and Astral Chain didn't get spirit events.

They know fans want Isaac though, and we did get Banjo so it seems like anything is possible.
 
Last edited:

Guynamednelson

Smash Champion
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
2,590
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
NNID
Nelson340
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
Personally I find it a little suspicious that FE Three Houses and Astral Chain didn't get spirit events.
After realizing that Sandbag's spirit battle simulates HRC and we still got the real mode, I wouldn't be concerned about who does or doesn't have a spirit.
 
Last edited:

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,839
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
The biggest thing going for Isaac is how his performance on the ballot. It's obvious he did well based on Ultimate's content and exit polls.

Him getting in definitely could happen, but depends on which direction they go with the choices. It's entirely possible (and probably likely) they stick with mostly third party, given the wider appeal (and probably larger sales), but if they do add some first party characters, they might stick with more recent titles. Personally I find it a little suspicious that FE Three Houses and Astral Chain didn't get spirit events.

They know fans want Isaac though, and we did get Banjo so it seems like anything is possible.
Good points. All of them.

I remember back in the days, Isaac used to be about as popular as Banjo. Maybe more even. Isaac was probably even more popular than Shulk, and Shulk got in the base game.
 

THE 6r

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
740
Location
Fairfax,VA + Los Angeles, CA
3DS FC
2981-7049-0538
NNID
6r$¢€£¥™©®
The biggest thing going for Isaac is his performance on the ballot. It's obvious he did well based on Ultimate's content and exit polls.

Him getting in definitely could happen, but depends on which direction they go with the choices. It's entirely possible (and probably likely) they stick with mostly third party, given the wider appeal (and probably larger sales), but if they do add some first party characters, they might stick with more recent titles. Personally I find it a little suspicious that FE Three Houses and Astral Chain didn't get spirit events.

They know fans want Isaac though, and we did get Banjo so it seems like anything is possible.
Personally, some combination of the Twins, ether Blyth or one of the house leaders, and some major fan requests (Isaac, Geno, Waluigi) for post-pass DLC would be expected.
 

N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
GRimer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
17,560
Location
Vancouver
It’s really hard to say why Isaac was cut as an AT in 4. I still think it could be technical reasons personally, but we’ll probably never know.
I just don't think Sakurai prioritizes dormant post-retro series very highly, mixed with him likely being unaware of the demand.

I mean look who got cut this time, Saki and the AW AT. Even though Ultimate used 4 heavily as a base, and, like the Pokemon, probably didn't need to cut anyone. Look who else was cut last time: Barbara, Helirin, Jill, Ray MK. Frankly Starfy is super lucky he's never been on the chopping block, because he definitely fits the type.

Plus, think about when all these characters were added as ATs - when they (or their series) were "relevant". And then think about when they were cut.
 
Last edited:

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
12,230
Switch FC
SW-2772-0149-6703
I just don't think Sakurai prioritizes dormant post-retro series very highly, mixed with him likely being unaware of the demand.

I mean look who got cut this time, Saki and the AW AT. Even though Ultimate used 4 heavily as a base, and, like the Pokemon, probably didn't need to cut anyone. Look who else was cut last time: Barbara, Helirin, Jill, Ray MK. Frankly Starfy is super lucky he's never been on the chopping block, because he definitely fits the type.

Plus, think about when all these characters were added as ATs - when they (or their series) were "relevant". And then think about when they were cut.
I believe the AW AT might have been cut due to many of the multi-summon AT's being removed. IIRC, Lakitu & Spines were also cut and it's feasible given that AT's count as KO's now.

And relevancy is kinda a moot point with all those retro AT's no? I mean you have Sable Prince, Devil, & Takamaru in there so yeah there's not much merit there.

As for Saki, maybe Sakurai thought there were enough gunner AT's in this game and/or his Mii Costume would suffice. IDK
 

N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
GRimer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
17,560
Location
Vancouver
I believe the AW AT might have been cut due to many of the multi-summon AT's being removed. IIRC, Lakitu & Spines were also cut and it's feasible given that AT's count as KO's now.
But the Pac-Man ghosts are still there, so it's not like they were uniformly omitted. And it's not like they were the only two ATs cut. So that's probably just coincidence.

And relevancy is kinda a moot point with all those retro AT's no? I mean you have Sable Prince, Devil, & Takamaru in there so yeah there's not much merit there.
Well that's why I made the distinction, because Sakurai always treats retro series preferably. Look at the roster, the ATs, the stages, etc. Retro series just get in, the only other first-party additions are generally of recent import.

As for Saki, maybe Sakurai thought there were enough gunner AT's in this game and/or his Mii Costume would suffice. IDK
Yet there's quite the precedent of Sakurai axing series that are no longer in the public eye. I'd chalk it up to that. Especially because he didn't even add any "gunner ATs", which generalizes characters to about the same degree as the whole sword-wielder deal.
 

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
12,230
Switch FC
SW-2772-0149-6703
But the Pac-Man ghosts are still there, so it's not like they were uniformly omitted. And it's not like they were the only two ATs cut. So that's probably just coincidence.


Well that's why I made the distinction, because Sakurai always treats retro series preferably. Look at the roster, the ATs, the stages, etc. Retro series just get in, the only other first-party additions are generally of recent import.


Yet there's quite the precedent of Sakurai axing series that are no longer in the public eye. I'd chalk it up to that. Especially because he didn't even add any "gunner ATs", which generalizes characters to about the same degree as the whole sword-wielder deal.
The Ghosts are there but IIRC, they vanish after one gets KO'd so it's not like the others that wouldn't function properly like that.

Also, Wars is pretty retro given it's ties to the NES so IDK why that would be a reason. Saki and Ray I could get but that's really wack given Wars is one of Nintendo's oldest IP's. Much more willing to believe the latter theory given Lakitu is also gone.

You're right about the gunner thing although Zero kinda fuctions similary no? I could be way off here. In any case, Sakurai thought the Mii Costume would suffice for Saki and Ray.
 

N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
GRimer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
17,560
Location
Vancouver
The Ghosts are there but IIRC, they vanish after one gets KO'd so it's not like the others that wouldn't function properly like that.

Also, Wars is pretty retro given it's ties to the NES so IDK why that would be a reason. Saki and Ray I could get but that's really wack given Wars is one of Nintendo's oldest IP's. Much more willing to believe the latter theory given Lakitu is also gone.

You're right about the gunner thing although Zero kinda fuctions similary no? I could be way off here. In any case, Sakurai thought the Mii Costume would suffice for Saki and Ray.
Well, do you at all find it strange that the non-retro, first-party ATs from non-playable series make up about 15% of the total AT volume yet make up 65% of the cut AT volume? A group that makes up about a sixth of the total ATs makes up two thirds of those that get cut?

Don't you think a discrepancy that high indicates some correlation?

Also, for the purposes of Smash, AW isn't retro. Retro corresponds only to series that didn't progress past, you know, the NES or GB. I mean in general you could make the argument that retro goes up to... like... the Gamecube and GBA now, but that isn't how Sakurai treats things.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
1,881
I just want to point out that while the gaming public's perception of what is retro is steadily moving towards the Gamecube and like being retro, in Smash the general public doesn't decide the roster. Sakurai does, and that man grew up on the NES and the Arcades and that really shows. It doesn't seem like that attitude is changing either. It may suck but when talking retros for Smash we have to keep in context of how Sakurai views it and that sadly means no Golden Sun or AW retro rep any time soon.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
678
I just want to point out that while the gaming public's perception of what is retro is steadily moving towards the Gamecube and like being retro, in Smash the general public doesn't decide the roster. Sakurai does, and that man grew up on the NES and the Arcades and that really shows. It doesn't seem like that attitude is changing either. It may suck but when talking retros for Smash we have to keep in context of how Sakurai views it and that sadly means no Golden Sun or AW retro rep any time soon.
Never had this been more apparent to me till I read his interview regarding Little Mac. He had such a fondness for Punch Out on the arcades that it's no wonder that Little Mac got the only assist promotion in 4. On the one hand I do like that Sakurai does have that attachment with characters and it's a nice read getting that insight in interviews. Of course this puts some characters like Isaac in this weird limbo where he doesn't have the Sakurai retro nostalgia or the bias from being a fan from playing the games in general (yes, he has of course done research in the games for Isaac's assist) but it's apparent he hasn't sat down and played it like a gamer as he has with series like Fire Emblem, XC2 and Persona. This makes Isaac have to rely moreso on fan outcry.
 
Last edited:

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
12,230
Switch FC
SW-2772-0149-6703
Well, do you at all find it strange that the non-retro, first-party ATs from non-playable series make up about 15% of the total AT volume yet make up 65% of the cut AT volume? A group that makes up about a sixth of the total ATs makes up two thirds of those that get cut?

Don't you think a discrepancy that high indicates some correlation?

Also, for the purposes of Smash, AW isn't retro. Retro corresponds only to series that didn't progress past, you know, the NES or GB. I mean in general you could make the argument that retro goes up to... like... the Gamecube and GBA now, but that isn't how Sakurai treats things.
It does good point.

AW isn't retro but like Famicom Wars is which is what the AT is supposed to represent mostly. Hell, the sound effect of the AT is the opening of Famicom Wars and the sprites are only GBA because it would be harder to use the NES/SNES ones. I don't see how continuing pass the NES era would be reason to remove it when it's older than some of the other AT's still in. So in that sense, I chalk it up to multi-AT's being cut like Lakitu.
Never had this been more apparent to me till I read his interview regarding Little Mac. He had such a fondness for Punch Out on the arcades that it's no wonder that Little Mac got the only assist promotion in 4. On the one hand I do like that Sakurai does have that attachment with characters and it's a nice read getting that insight in interviews. Of course this puts some characters like Isaac in this weird limbo where he doesn't have the Sakurai retro nostalgia or the bias from being a fan from playing the games in general (yes, he has of course done research in the games for Isaac's assist) but it's apparent he hasn't sat down and played it like a gamer as he has with series like Fire Emblem, XC2 and Persona. This makes Isaac have to rely moreso on fan outcry.
Yeah it is pretty unfortunate. I really wish he wouldn't overlook these kinds of series.
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
923
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
986
Location
Weyard
A Geno fan was kind enough to make alts based on the OG eight party members with the Nibroc render.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,169
NNID
SonicLink125
I guess Ike can’t fight for his friends anymore as Isaac is too strong. lol I wonder what else you can caption on it?

A Geno fan was kind enough to make alts based on the OG eight party members with the Nibroc render.
I seriously like the Felix alt a lot. Then again, green has been my favorite color so that’s not hard to see why. lol
 

ZelDan

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
1,735
Location
New Hampshire
A Geno fan was kind enough to make alts based on the OG eight party members with the Nibroc render.
nice alts.

And the garet alt almost reminds me of Crono, with the spiky red hair and yellow scarf. Good thing Isaac's tunic isn't blue with that specific one.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,169
NNID
SonicLink125


Happy Thanksgiving, Adepts and thank you for being one of the best communities I’ve ever been in. You all rock! I mean it!
 

Sentinel07

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
62
The biggest thing going for Isaac is his performance on the ballot. It's obvious he did well based on Ultimate's content and exit polls.

Him getting in definitely could happen, but depends on which direction they go with the choices. It's entirely possible (and probably likely) they stick with mostly third party, given the wider appeal (and probably larger sales), but if they do add some first party characters, they might stick with more recent titles. Personally I find it a little suspicious that FE Three Houses and Astral Chain didn't get spirit events.

They know fans want Isaac though, and we did get Banjo so it seems like anything is possible.
Yeah, I feel pretty certain Astral Chain is getting a character in. It not getting a spirit event when Daemon X Machina did is highly suspicious.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
509
Switch FC
SW-4311-5852-0528
Putting an F in chat for Lloyd - Sabi just hit us with the disconfirm over on twitter and I know us Isaac fans have been very close knit with the Lloydbros for a while.

God knows who Fighter Pass 5 is, but I'm certainly looking forward to next year when we get an idea of where the DLC will go post-fighter pass.
 

Nazyrus

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
1,831
Putting an F in chat for Lloyd - Sabi just hit us with the disconfirm over on twitter and I know us Isaac fans have been very close knit with the Lloydbros for a while.

God knows who Fighter Pass 5 is, but I'm certainly looking forward to next year when we get an idea of where the DLC will go post-fighter pass.
Yeah at this point 5th is either sora or something equally shocking that serves as marketing strategy to keep interest for next pass and whatever is ahead. They gotta keep people interested after all.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
579
Location
Vancouver Island
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
NNID
nintenstar98
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
Yeah at this point 5th is either sora or something equally shocking that serves as marketing strategy to keep interest for next pass and whatever is ahead. They gotta keep people interested after all.
I don't see the logic here. The entire pass was finalized last year, and according to imran, extra DLC was only decided on around E3. How could they plan the end of the pass with DLC that may not happen in mind?
 

Nazyrus

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
1,831
I don't see the logic here. The entire pass was finalized last year, and according to imran, extra DLC was only decided on around E3. How could they plan the end of the pass with DLC that may not happen in mind?
Sakurai mentions already working on an unknown fighter + theres nothing to say whoever fighter 5 was originally hasn't been swapped with this unknown fighter that could be a big one they got in order to raise interest for the next pas and then have the original FP5 be FP6 or something like that. It's not impossible to happen, if more DLC was decided around E3 they could have perfectly worked on another character for 5th this pack that could serve the purpose of keeping expectations and interest for next pass. I wouldn't put it past my mind ya' know
 

Bassoonist

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,627
3DS FC
1032-1351-5240
NNID
WoodwindsRock
Really hard to call now who it is now. Phoenix and Amaterasu are still in as Capcom reps, and Sora could be a big 'holy ****' reveal. Or it's going to be someone completely unexpected.
Those are the only three third party characters I want, and I expect none of them to happen. Especially not poor Amaterasu, but hey, at least Okami now has hope to continue.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
579
Location
Vancouver Island
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
NNID
nintenstar98
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
Sakurai mentions already working on an unknown fighter + theres nothing to say whoever fighter 5 was originally hasn't been swapped with this unknown fighter that could be a big one they got in order to raise interest for the next pas and then have the original FP5 be FP6 or something like that. It's not impossible to happen, if more DLC was decided around E3 they could have perfectly worked on another character for 5th this pack that could serve the purpose of keeping expectations and interest for next pass. I wouldn't put it past my mind ya' know
Sakurai's said that they work on the characters in batches of 3. Joker was out in April, and so Terry entered his dev cycle. Hero was announced a mere month before his actual release, and assuming this holds true, #5 would have entered development near the end of July. That's about a *month* to change plans, and we don't even know if preliminary work on 5 could have been ongoing at the time. It also assumes that they were able to secure a character for post pass early enough, that would be bigger than what #5 originally was... within that month time span.

I'm sorry, I highly doubt there was any change to the schedule. The time frame is so tight, that it just wouldn't have been worth doing that. And even if it were the case, it probably would not be Sora or any character equal.
 

Pinguino21v

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
250
Location
France
If the 5th is announced at TGA like it is supposed, I still believe it will be Steve, for several reasons I already mentioned.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Phoenix, KOS-MOS or Sora either.

I don't think it will be someone outside of this list.
 
Top