Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

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There are reasons for people to prefer Bayonetta other than her being owned by Sega. She was pretty much considered a Nintendo character by then anyway.
I mean she is but on paper, it doesn't look like she made more due to being a better Nintendo character than Corrin does it? Data drives a lot of business decisions for better or worse.
 

N3ON

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I wonder if Corrin actually is the reason for the 3rd party focus. Many were not exactly excited for him to join and I'm sure the third parties got more sales. I hope that's not the case but it's a secret fear I have. Maybe with the second wave they'll test the waters with first parties again and this time pick a better choice, assuming that's what happened anyway.
I think Nintendo can recognize why Ryu and Cloud would sell better than a character that wasn't even out yet in most of the world.

But veterans aside, since we can't get more of those, they chose three third-parties vs. one (promotional) first-party long before they even had the opportunity to analyze their reception. This just seems to be their DLC strategy.
 

Pinguino21v

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It’s hilarious. Especially when you consider it’s likely Nintendo has to split the profits with whatever third party character they get with the company who owns them.

Don’t have that problem with first party characters.
The cross promotion works in both way. That also brings fans of these series into Smash Bros. So, yes, the DLC in itself is shared with the third party company, but the DLC also sell the base game.
 
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The cross promotion works in both way. That also brings fans of these series into Smash Bros. So, yes, the DLC in itself is shared with the third party company, but the DLC also sell the base game.
Sure. The major thing it does is bring in fans of characters that wouldn’t have a Switch or Smash and get them into it. I get that.

On the flip side advertising other first party characters means Nintendo gets all the profits. People might check out that Nintendo owned series, and they don’t have to share money or worry about any legal issues.
 
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Guys I think if Geno gets in before us we should start a huge campaign for Isaac since he would be the last of the Brawl era big requests and it could be a good way to gather support. Maybe that is just me but I think it would be a pretty good idea.
Honestly we should still push hard for Isaac to make it in with or without Geno's inclusion. But yeah Geno making it in would get more people on board with us especially since that will break another fan rule set by the community and Isaac being the last big Brawl request like you said.
 
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I want Geno in, but I'd feel a little snubbed if he made it before Isaac, I'll be honest. Both are incredibly popular requests, but I feel there's no denying Isaac has a larger "legacy", even if that legacy isn't exactly the biggest. But hopefully both make it as DLC very soon!
Isaac has always been my most wanted and Geno has always been my second most. Other than those two Banjo was a close third and I was so happy he finally made it in.

If Geno got in I’d be ecstatic, but I too would be very sad if all of the popular Smash community characters like Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, and Geno got in, but not Isaac. Because in my mind those 5 have been the most heavily requested since before Brawl and to get ALL of them but one playable in the “Ultimate” Smash game would be a slap in the face honestly.

I think the thing that kind of hurts the most is when you look at all of those characters Isaac is the only one that is the main character of his series (that Nintendo owns), and that series did very well and could easily be brought back and make them money. RPG’s are thriving on the Switch and Nintendo would be foolish to not try and talk to Sakurai about making him playable.

I do feel pretty good about Geno’s chances (although I don’t think I buy the Mii costume leak). I’m just hoping Isaac can break through after the Fighter’s Pass as well. Even though there are others I’d like to see also get in, if those two make it then I really do think this game would be unbeatable in terms of being the Ultimate Smash game.
 
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Since you guys love a good Isaac and Dragon Ball Z mashup you guys should check out this piece from the French artist Yoann Le Scoul who is a pretty impressive DBZ fan artist.
He's even working on a Golden Sun animation project but he told me he's postponing it until he has the time to work on it again. Check some of the work he got done, it's fantastic
https://www.pinterest.nz/ylescoul/golden-sun-animation-project/
 
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Not gonna lie, it would feel super weird to me personally if every long-standing Brawl era request managed to get in besides Isaac. That just wouldn't feel right to me, and hopefully Sakurai would recognize that Isaac has been so demanded for such a long time and will include him. Although, I think our greatest hope is probably to get a GS game. That would probably force Isaac's inclusion imo. Hopefully a game is coming because I think that would make Isaac's chances of being playable go way up, even if he's AT.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Guys I think if Geno gets in before us we should start a huge campaign for Isaac since he would be the last of the Brawl era big requests and it could be a good way to gather support. Maybe that is just me but I think it would be a pretty good idea.
Still missing Krystal and Bomberman as well. After those four get in, then it's safe to say all the big Brawl requests are finally in.
 

maf91186

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Since you guys love a good Isaac and Dragon Ball Z mashup you guys should check out this piece from the French artist Yoann Le Scoul who is a pretty impressive DBZ fan artist.
He's even working on a Golden Sun animation project but he told me he's postponing it until he has the time to work on it again. Check some of the work he got done, it's fantastic
https://www.pinterest.nz/ylescoul/golden-sun-animation-project/
That's.....Peter Pan's profile........
My word.....
Don't you see everyone?
We've been looking in the wrong places this whole time.
Someone get Metallica on the line!
We're going on a rescue mission. :coolmonke:
 

Tetiro

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Hey all! Sorry for the lack of messaging. Real life stuff happened! But I am back now. And the results to the Golden Sunday giveaway in October are finally up.


For November's Giveaway, I am doing Elemental Star Christmas Baubles to hang on your tree!
 
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The only kind of traffic light I can tolerate and accept! lol

Hey all! Sorry for the lack of messaging. Real life stuff happened! But I am back now. And the results to the Golden Sunday giveaway in October are finally up.


For November's Giveaway, I am doing Elemental Star Christmas Baubles to hang on your tree!
Thank you again! You have been awesome making these giveaways! Can’t wait to see what you’ll do next!
 
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So I’m not sure if I heard correctly or not, but I believe over in the Geno thread it’s been talked about that some insiders have heard about some possible promotions in future DLC, but not to expect too many.

I don’t know which insiders have said this or how much validity it has, but it makes me a lot more hopeful for Golden Boi. Also it’s worth noting I don’t think it’s been clarified if this includes AT’s or only spirits or what.
 

Midget Master

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It was talked about in the context of Geno, who is a spirit. So I can't say for sure, but I feel like they're probably not commenting further because it does in fact contain Assist Trophies and as they go, there are only really a handful that would be likely picks. Though it's also worth saying that that is just a "list", and not everyone on that list would be guaranteed.

As for Isaac, honestly if he's just in the conversation I'd be pretty happy and like his chances. The rhetoric about 3rd party collabs and the effing Waluigi memes make me deeply concerned that 1st party slots could be at a premium, and that the aforementioned gentleman would have first dibs. But we'll have to see.
 
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It was talked about in the context of Geno, who is a spirit. So I can't say for sure, but I feel like they're probably not commenting further because it does in fact contain Assist Trophies and as they go, there are only really a handful that would be likely picks. Though it's also worth saying that that is just a "list", and not everyone on that list would be guaranteed.

As for Isaac, honestly if he's just in the conversation I'd be pretty happy and like his chances. The rhetoric about 3rd party collabs and the effing Waluigi memes make me deeply concerned that 1st party slots could be at a premium, and that the aforementioned gentleman would have first dibs. But we'll have to see.
See for me I like Waluigi. Not because of the meme thing I just think he’s a funny character and it would be neat to see him get in. I’d prefer Isaac obviously, but I’m well aware Waluigi is far more popular in mainstream due to being a Mario character and appearing in racing and party games.

If it came down to the two of them where only one could get in (which I hope wouldn’t happen) then I think it would ultimately boil down to who Sakurai thinks would bring more to the game. I’m a Golden Sun fan so obviously I got bias, but I think you could be so much more creative with Isaac’s move set AND you would get another series represented. I love the Mario series, but I could live without another Mario, Pokemon, and FE rep.
 

Midget Master

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Oh yeah for what it's worth I don't dislike him either. If they both got in, or if Isaac was never in the conversation, then it's whatever for me. But Isaac is my most wanted character, and if it was the case that he didn't get in over Waluigi despite nearing the tops of fan request charts since the Brawl days, just because Waluigi went viral for a week... I'd not be happy.
 
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See for me I like Waluigi. Not because of the meme thing I just think he’s a funny character and it would be neat to see him get in. I’d prefer Isaac obviously, but I’m well aware Waluigi is far more popular in mainstream due to being a Mario character and appearing in racing and party games.

If it came down to the two of them where only one could get in (which I hope wouldn’t happen) then I think it would ultimately boil down to who Sakurai thinks would bring more to the game. I’m a Golden Sun fan so obviously I got bias, but I think you could be so much more creative with Isaac’s move set AND you would get another series represented. I love the Mario series, but I could live without another Mario, Pokemon, and FE rep.
I have to agree. I like and support both characters, but Waluigi's moveset would require a lot more original ideas to fill in the gaps that the spin-offs aren't deep enough to explore. He could use a racket and the Air Swim from Tennis, the Wall-Luigi from Strikers, or ad-lib some sort of trickster duplication mechanic ala the Liar Ball from Baseball... but a lot of his gameplay would have to be invented out of thin air. With the number of Djinn available throughout the GS series, Isaac is much more like Banjo & Kazooie in how most of his moveset is already created in advance by the source material. The Djinn could also function as his unique "gimmick" that helps make him "fun to play" per Sakurai's words if he was able to switch out various Djinn/elements and alter parts of his moveset.

It doesn't have to be a competition between them though. Sakurai doesn't tend to treat two unrelated characters like these as "one or the other" scenarios, especially when he has more time to work with for DLC. Waluigi may be more popular but both have more than enough justification to make it in on their own merits. If Sakurai wants them both, he'll make them both happen.

I can't possibly know his mindset, but given that this is his last opportunity to throw any more character ideas into the ring, I have some faith that Waluigi, Isaac, and Geno are all on his mind since they stick out like sore thumbs with how long they've hung around waiting their turn for. That quote about "recognition" not being the most important makes me wonder if it's been eating at him to have these characters wasted on assist and spirit roles. I think we'll see some third parties and newer first parties too, but hopefully all bases will properly be covered by the time the game calls it quits.
 

SirCamp

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So I’m not sure if I heard correctly or not, but I believe over in the Geno thread it’s been talked about that some insiders have heard about some possible promotions in future DLC, but not to expect too many.

I don’t know which insiders have said this or how much validity it has, but it makes me a lot more hopeful for Golden Boi. Also it’s worth noting I don’t think it’s been clarified if this includes AT’s or only spirits or what.
To this end, who do we think would be the options as far as potential assist promos? And who would you want to see?

Personally the characters I want to see upgraded are Isaac (obviously) and Bomberman. But Waluigi is obviously very likely as well. Other than those three possibly Ashley or Skull Kid? I initally thought Ashley was fairly likely early on before Ultimate came out, but now I don't know really where she stands. Skull Kid is also very popular, but I think his chances are a bit muddied given that there are a number of other options to choose from from Zelda that would require messing with assists and perhaps more importantly it doesn't jive with the new worlds thing. The other one that sticks out to me is Shadow, but I'm gonna be honest I don't see them upgrading an assist to an echo and that just seems likely the most likely outcome for him. But then I'm also biased in that I'm not really a fan of Shadow.
 
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So I’m not sure if I heard correctly or not, but I believe over in the Geno thread it’s been talked about that some insiders have heard about some possible promotions in future DLC, but not to expect too many.

I don’t know which insiders have said this or how much validity it has, but it makes me a lot more hopeful for Golden Boi. Also it’s worth noting I don’t think it’s been clarified if this includes AT’s or only spirits or what.
Me and a few other fans have been feeling pretty confident that a new Golden Sun game or remake could be coming to the Switch based on various factors, nothing is set in stone as of now so don't take my word as a confirmation or anything like that. In that case if the game comes to fruition Isaac would easily be on the top of the potential contenders for future DLC even more than Waluigi I'd say. Promoting a Golden Sun revival with a playable Isaac is a no-brainer. Remember none of this is guaranteed to happen but the possibility of it is exciting
 
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Pinguino21v

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See for me I like Waluigi. Not because of the meme thing I just think he’s a funny character and it would be neat to see him get in. I’d prefer Isaac obviously, but I’m well aware Waluigi is far more popular in mainstream due to being a Mario character and appearing in racing and party games.

If it came down to the two of them where only one could get in (which I hope wouldn’t happen) then I think it would ultimately boil down to who Sakurai thinks would bring more to the game. I’m a Golden Sun fan so obviously I got bias, but I think you could be so much more creative with Isaac’s move set AND you would get another series represented. I love the Mario series, but I could live without another Mario, Pokemon, and FE rep.
I also like Waluigi as a character, not as a meme. I always play him in the spin-off. He is wonky, cheater, wrong player, that makes him a anti-hero with strong potential for weirdo moves. Imagine him swimming out of thin air as a recovery (Looney Toons like), some special that breaks the establish Smash rules, or expressions that break the third wall (complaining about the player when he loses).

Adding him only to represent the spin-off would be such a bummer, he has more potential than that.

In any case, in my opinion, and knowing my bias toward Isaac and Waluigi, I honestly think those two are the most likely (and maybe Springman) to get upgraded. I don't understand how some people on the speculation thread can say that Zero is one of the most likely to get upgraded...
 
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To this end, who do we think would be the options as far as potential assist promos? And who would you want to see?

Personally the characters I want to see upgraded are Isaac (obviously) and Bomberman. But Waluigi is obviously very likely as well. Other than those three possibly Ashley or Skull Kid? I initally thought Ashley was fairly likely early on before Ultimate came out, but now I don't know really where she stands. Skull Kid is also very popular, but I think his chances are a bit muddied given that there are a number of other options to choose from from Zelda that would require messing with assists and perhaps more importantly it doesn't jive with the new worlds thing. The other one that sticks out to me is Shadow, but I'm gonna be honest I don't see them upgrading an assist to an echo and that just seems likely the most likely outcome for him. But then I'm also biased in that I'm not really a fan of Shadow.
If Sakurai is trying to please fans with DLC like he alluded to in the Banjo video then I feel good about Isaac. All those characters you mentioned I’d love to see make the jump. I haven’t played a Bomberman game in awhile so I don’t know what his move set would be like, but I like when more series get represented.

Waluigi and Skull Kid are personal favorites, and Ashley has been a popular pick and it’d be sweet to get another Wario character. And like you said with Shadow I think if he got promoted he’d be a unique character. But then again maybe because he could easily make an Echo they might do that. I kind of hope we get a few Echos as well since they wouldn’t take as much effort.

In terms of being likely to be promoted I’d rank them:

1. Isaac/Waluigi
2. Skull Kid
3. Ashley
4. Bomberman
5. Shadow

Bomberman and Shadow at the bottom just because Sakurai needs to go through copyright crap for them.
 

FlawedAI

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I personally only see Isaac and Waluigi as candidates for "promotion". The two have by far the largest backing and each bring a ton to the table. I personally never saw Skull Kid or Ashley as likely because of relevancy, demand, and moveset potential, of which those two don't have a whole lot (not that I'm against them per se, they just never felt like amazing picks to me). I'd be shocked if third-party Assists got the nod, and even then, Shovel Knight has to be in the conversation, right? Yacht Club loves to collab with other studios and he's already an Assist, so I'm sure they'd be all for his full promotion. Bomberman has a decent shot, but Konami is tough to work with and they could end up saying no to a full playable slot. Shadow is in a strange place because he's the perfect choice for a Sonic echo, but would they do DLC echoes? Who knows. Another pattern I've noticed is that third-party series don't get more than one unique character (companies can get multiple and series can have echoes but I don't think an individual series will get multiple uniques). This puts Shadow in an even weirder place: an already represented series that would be perfect for an echo but DLC echoes haven't happened yet and third-party series haven't gotten more than one unique character yet. It's just tough to figure out how exactly he'd get the nod, because Nintendo may not want to release a free echo they'd have to pay for, and people may not want to be a $5.99 clone. I'm sure they could work around it, but as of now they haven't bothered yet.
 

Xenigma

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So, dumb question for anyone who knows better: does Nintendo have to work with Camelot to use Waluigi? I'd assume that Nintendo holds the rights, but if Camelot was involved in a Waluigi promotion in any meaningful capacity, it seems like there would be incentive to go ahead and work with them on implementing playable Isaac as well, thus getting two birds with one stone.
 
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So, dumb question for anyone who knows better: does Nintendo have to work with Camelot to use Waluigi? I'd assume that Nintendo holds the rights, but if Camelot was involved in a Waluigi promotion in any meaningful capacity, it seems like there would be incentive to go ahead and work with them on implementing playable Isaac as well, thus getting two birds with one stone.
I doubt they have to work with Camelot to use either of them, beyond maybe the professional courtesy of talking to their creators for input.
 

FlawedAI

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So, dumb question for anyone who knows better: does Nintendo have to work with Camelot to use Waluigi? I'd assume that Nintendo holds the rights, but if Camelot was involved in a Waluigi promotion in any meaningful capacity, it seems like there would be incentive to go ahead and work with them on implementing playable Isaac as well, thus getting two birds with one stone.
I'd imagine they just ask for permission, but they don't really need it since Nintendo owns the rights to both characters.
 
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I doubt they have to work with Camelot to use either of them, beyond maybe the professional courtesy of talking to their creators for input.
Maybe. But then again K. Rool was a Rare creation, and his creator knew nothing about his inclusion. So for Waluigi I don’t think Camelot has to be involved or even notified.

Rare created K. Rool for the Donkey Kong series and Camelot created Waluigi for the Mario Tennis series.

Since Golden Sun was created by Camelot then they’d obviously know about Isaac and probably work with them.
 

MeatOfJustice

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Not gonna lie, it would feel super weird to me personally if every long-standing Brawl era request managed to get in besides Isaac. That just wouldn't feel right to me, and hopefully Sakurai would recognize that Isaac has been so demanded for such a long time and will include him. Although, I think our greatest hope is probably to get a GS game. That would probably force Isaac's inclusion imo. Hopefully a game is coming because I think that would make Isaac's chances of being playable go way up, even if he's AT.
Just because you get a new game doesn't mean you will get a playable character in Smash, even if you are a Nintendo IP. But dreams is pretty much all we've got now.
 
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Just because you get a new game doesn't mean you will get a playable character in Smash, even if you are a Nintendo IP. But dreams is pretty much all we've got now.
That's for sure true. So many new Nintendo IPs pop up here and there and we get a revival for a series such as StarFox and they don't get an extra newcomer, what makes Isaac special however is how vocal his demand is for over a decade. While some characters have gotten into Smash with hardly any demand you can't deny it has been the sole reason why some characters joined the roster like King K.Rool and Banjo. A new Golden Sun game doesn't guarantee Isaac making the cut but them not capitalising on it by giving him his long awaited spot on the roster would be a huge missed opportunity that would benefit both fans and the developers.
Honestly I'm feeling very confident in our boy right now. I also realised recently he has the most stuff for a non-playable character with an AT, Mii Costume and a 4 star spirit.
Golden Sun is also the only series lacking a playable representative that has a spirit for every class as well so that helps
 
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That's for sure true. So many new Nintendo IPs pop up here and there and we get a revival for a series such as StarFox and they don't get an extra newcomer, what makes Isaac special however is how vocal his demand is for over a decade. While some characters have gotten into Smash with hardly any demand you can't deny it has been the sole reason why some characters joined the roster like King K.Rool and Banjo. A new Golden Sun game doesn't guarantee Isaac making the cut but them not capitalising on it by giving him his long awaited spot on the roster would be a huge missed opportunity that would benefit both fans and the developers.

Golden Sun is also the only series lacking a playable representative that has a spirit for every class as well so that helps
Golden Sun’s representation has been insane the more you look at it. Especially compared to the last Smash games:

BRAWL:
•AT Isaac (with Move)
•Isaac Trophy
•One song
-Felix Battle/Doom Dragon Remix

SMASH 4:
•Two songs
-Weyard (Dark Dawn Rip)
-Felix Battle/Doom Dragon Remix (Port from Brawl)

ULTIMATE:
•AT Isaac (with Move, Pound, Lift & Teleport)
-Besides Gray Fox, Isaac is the only returning AT who also got revamped with new moves.
•8 Golden Sun Spirits
-All together have every class, etc.
-Isaac, Felix & Matthew appear in WoL
-Isaac’s Spirit Battle is in the final world and one of the best Spirit Battles in Smash (IMO too)
-Adult Isaac is one of the strongest Spirits
•Isaac Mii Costume
•Two songs (both ported from Smash 4)
-Weyard (Dark Dawn Rip)
-Felix Battle/Doom Dragon Remix
•Isaac Online Profile Icon

All that together, Golden Sun is the most represented out of all the Non-Fighter Rep series. Golden Sun only has 3 crucial things missing which are a Fighter, a Stage and NEW Music.

We are so close, Adepts! We have to keep pushing for Isaac now more than ever (and of course a new GS game)! We have nothing to lose and everything to gain from here on out!
 

SirCamp

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Bomberman has a decent shot, but Konami is tough to work with and they could end up saying no to a full playable slot.
Is this actually the case at this point though? They were able to renegotiate for Snake this go around despite all the weirdness with Kojima. We got Simon. We got Richter to go along with him. We got Bomberman as an AT in the first place, something I would've thought a larger Japanese company might not be okay with (especially given that they are still using the character). We got Goemon as a mii fighter costume. It appears, at least to me, that they are fairly free with their IPs when it comes to Smash, but that's only based on the amount of content we are getting. Do we actually have any insider info on the company?
 
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Hydewell

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So, dumb question for anyone who knows better: does Nintendo have to work with Camelot to use Waluigi? I'd assume that Nintendo holds the rights, but if Camelot was involved in a Waluigi promotion in any meaningful capacity, it seems like there would be incentive to go ahead and work with them on implementing playable Isaac as well, thus getting two birds with one stone.
No. Camelot aren't listed in Waluigi appearences in Mario titles, neither her designer (Fumihide Aoki, who still works at Camelot btw).
Is this actually the case at this point though? They were able to renegotiate for Snake this go around despite all the weirdness with Kojima. We got Simon. We got Richter to go along with him. We got Bomberman as an AT in the first place, something I would've thought a larger Japanese company might not be okay with (especially given that they are still using the character). We got Goemon as a mii fighter costume. It appears, at least to me, that they are fairly free with their IPs when it comes to Smash, but that's only based on the amount of content we are getting. Do we actually have any insider info on the company?
No. People just hate Konami and always assumes the worst. We already know Konami executives only care about money, so if Nintendo pays them well, they'll lend their IPs, like they did with Ultimate.
We are so close, Adepts! We have to keep pushing for Isaac now more than ever (and of course a new GS game)! We have nothing to lose and everything to gain from here on out!
Even if we don't make him playable, at least we can't say we didn't try. Also, we're definitely making our voices heard asking for a new GS game. And speaking of that, we're so close to January; if Camelot is doing a Mario Golf game, it should be revealed the next year and January is a good date. If they don't reveal anything in the first 2020 Direct, my hopes for a new Golden Sun game would increase.
 
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